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Old 08-11-2009, 05:48 PM   #1
zetetic0void
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Default Meaning altered through incomplete quotes

I have been wondering about this issue for a while. I'll often see claims and quotes used by various people in attempts to support some idea. This technique can be used by any number of opinions to show as "proof" (I've probably done this myself).

An example is this quote of Manly P. Hall's to allegedly prove that all Freemasons are actually Satanists (I have seen this on various Christian sites and anti-NWO references).

quote used by one site claiming it proves Manly P Hall was a Satanist. The part they feel is proof is highlighted in red

Quote:
"The day has come when Fellow Craftsman must know and apply their knowledge. The lost key to their grade is the mastery of emotion , which places the energy of the universe at their disposal. Man can only expect to be entrusted with great power by proving his ability to use it constructively and selflessly. When the Mason learns that the key to the warrior on the block is the proper application of the dynamo of living power, he has learned the mystery of his Craft. The seething energies of Lucifer are in his hands, and before he may step onward and upward, he must prove his ability to properly apply energy. He must follow in the footsteps of his forefather, Tubal-Cain, who with the mighty strength of the war god hammered his sword into a plowshare." [Manly P. Hall, 33rd Degree, K.T., The Lost Keys of Freemasonry or The Secret of Hiram Abiff

Actual larger quote from the book

Quote:
The day has come when Fellow Craftsmen must know and apply their knowledge. The lost key to their grade is the mastery of emotion, which places the energy of the universe at their disposal. Man can only expect to be entrusted with great power by proving his ability to use it constructively and selflessly. When the Mason learns that the key to the warrior on the block is the proper application of the dynamo of living power, he has learned the mystery of his Craft. The seething energies of Lucifer are in his hands and before he may step onward and upward, he must prove his ability to properly apply energy. He must follow in the footsteps of his forefather, Tubal-Cain, who with the mighty strength of the war god hammered his sword into a plowshare.

Incessant vigilance over thought, action, and desire is indispensable to those who wish to make progress in the unfolding of their own being, and the Fellow Craft's degree is the degree of transmutation. The hand that slays must lift the fallen, while the lips given to cursing must be taught to pray. The heart that hates must learn the mystery of compassion, as the result of a deeper and more perfect understanding of man's relation to his brother. The firm, kind hand of spirit must curb the flaming powers of emotion with an iron grip. In the realization and application of these principles lies the key of the Fellow Craft.

In this degree, the two points of the compass (one higher than the other), symbolize the heart and mind, and with the expression of the higher emotions the heart point of the compass is liberated from the square, which is an instrument used to measure the block of matter and therefore symbolizes form.

A large percentage of the people of the world at the present time are passing through, spiritually, the degree of the Fellow Craft, with its five senses. The sense perceptions come under the control of the emotional energies, therefore the development of the senses is necessary to the constructive expression of the Fellow Craft power. Man must realize that all the powers which his many years of need have earned for him have come in order that through them he may liberate more fully the prisoner within his own being. As the Fellow Craft degree is the middle of the three, the spiritual duty of each member is to reach the point of poise or balance, which is always secured between extremes. The mastery of expression is also to be found in this degree. The keywords of the Fellow Craft may be briefly defined as compassion, poise, and transmutation.

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Lo...onry/Chapter_4

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The main part of this quote used as "proof" that Manly P Hall was a Satanist is "The seething energies of Lucifer are in his hands and before he may step onward and upward, he must prove his ability to properly apply energy"

(all of this is symbolism for aspects of spiritual development so not actual energies of an actual entity called Lucifer).

The main point to ponder is the very real symbolic reality that people can feel energies of power and might and these are labelled energies of Lucifer. In many cases, the energy and ability when people have power and wealth makes them go towards the accumulation of wealth and power and towards that goal, they will do things or allow things to be done to harm others in that driving pursuit.

This is exactly the problem that Manly P Hall was trying to point to. The feeling of these energies will likely cause oneself to become engulfed into the system of greed and power unless it is understood, controlled and you bypass this level towards a higher level .



However, within the context of what is being said, the main point being discussed by Manly P. Hall was that these energies must be used in a proper way.

The quote below points to a main point
Quote:
He must follow in the footsteps of his forefather, Tubal-Cain, who with the mighty strength of the war god hammered his sword into a plowshare
The transmutation of the sword (a tool for violence) into a plow for growing sustenance.

By reading this, it is clear to me that the level symbolized as Lucifer is to be controlled and you are to go higher than that level.

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If you look at he history of something such as the Roman Catholic Church (as an example) you can see examples where symbolically the energies of Lucifer had symbolically taken hold of those in power (popes, etc) and the results of their determined grasp of power were such things as the Inquisitions, tortures, burning heretics and mystics who said they had attained "oneness with God" - something we might call "cosmic consciousness", moksha, nirvana from other ways of thinking.

I'm not saying Lucifer is an entity but a descriptive symbol used to represent a characteristic level of spirituality (a level where the feeling of power can often pull people into selfish greed and violence for their grasp of power)
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Another writing by Manly P Hall is below

Quote:
Certain Rosicrucian scholars have given special appellations to these three phases of the sun: the spiritual sun they called Vulcan; the soular and intellectual sun, Christ and Lucifer respectively; and the material sun, the Jewish Demiurgus Jehovah; Lucifer here represents the intellectual mind without the illumination of the spiritual mind; therefore it is “the false light.” The false light is finally overcome and redeemed by the true light of the soul, called the Second Logos or Christ. The secret processes by which the Luciferian intellect is transmuted into the Christly intellect constitute one of the great secrets of alchemy, and are symbolized by the process of transmuting base metals into gold

It's plain to see from that quote that the spiritual stage labelled as Lucifer is to be bypassed to reach a higher stage labelled the Christ of spiritual awareness.


There is no proof in any of this suggesting Manly P Hall was a Satanist. In all lectures I have listened of his, he always says the lust for power, control, selfish desire for wealth is a stage that mush be overcome to reach a higher stage.

It is plain to see that in this world here, so many are stuck within the level of Lucifer ... their chief goal is attainment, protection and even greater expansion of wealth, power and control.

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My main point is to suggest that sometimes, people will wrongly use quotes in an attempt to support a point of view. These quotes are not seen fully and can lead to complete misunderstandings.

I know I have done this in the past but I am trying not to jump to conclusions as often ;-)


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In saying this, I do see some problem within secretive societies such as Masonic orders. It seems that there is a layer of certain people who perhaps meet within it who are really focused on the level of Lucifer or power and control. I can see many people in power who are concerned with wealth, power and control at the cost to other people.


So after listening to a lot of Manly P Hall lectures, reading and looking at much alchemical symbolism or even some occult ideas, I am left feeling that in a lot of this, it is not actually the symbols and teachings themselves that are the problem but the usage and the misguided application of those who really are not going to higher levels of spiritual understanding.

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I also wonder if in some way, ancient symbolisms are being misrepresented and misused within media to discredit those symbols and alter their meaning
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Old 08-11-2009, 05:50 PM   #2
bobbydiva
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It comes from people looking to prove what they want rather than actually reading source texts.

I'm writing a book and have discovered a lot of what I thought I know about the NWO agenda is actually garbage. Like the original Bavarian Illuminati is most certainly not the same group running things now.

PS

Manly Hall is excellent. He is not a satanist, far from it. In fact his works have done a great deal in exposing the "secrets".
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Old 08-11-2009, 06:14 PM   #3
grachtengordel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zetetic0void View Post
I have been wondering about this issue for a while. I'll often see claims and quotes used by various people.............. However, within the context of what is being said........... it is clear to me that........ their chief goal is ...........being misrepresented and misused within media to ................. alter their meaning
Good point, it goes on a lot. My 'over'standing of this phenomenon is that it is ideal to not edit 'quotes' at all, but if it is possible to shorten (by editing) a quote WITHOUT altering the 'intent' or implied meaning of the text, then it MUST be done with a dotted line .................. like this...................

'News'papers do this a lot but that is 'overt' compared to some of the manipulative phrasing and NLP they regularly deploy

I actually 'trim' the posts of other 'forum members' IN This way a lot when quoting, but NEVER to manipulate or alter the meaning of their words.

If a word is spelled SO wrong that it obscures the meaning , i will correct that so that my 'response' makes sense to the 'casual' reader, but i try to leave the quote uncorrupted if possible

A good example is how i edited the 'quote' above, to illustrate the ......... 'dotted line' practice of 'news' media. The whole verbage isn't included as this post is only a couple after the original post. It saves people having to scroll past the same replicated info many times as they navigate the thread, and save server space/bandwith, no point downloading duplicate info.

Sometimes I want to respond to two points made by the poster or emphasise a contradiction.

anyway, im bored now, this ius a boring post, youre boring grouchy gordon
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