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Old 01-08-2009, 08:29 PM   #1
tracker
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Default Escaping tracker dogs / attack dogs and handlers .

Escaping dog units / evading dogs .

In the right conditions ,
a dog can detect you from a mile away , your steps and breath too . Some attack dogs can be right on you before you know it ; Trained in silence , travelling up to 15 klm ph and weighing up to 48kg are just as lethal as being shot .
Tracking dogs and hunting dogs are both trained to detect and engage with or with out their handler however the attack dog is more lethal and tracker dogs rearly engage a target .
Tracker dogs specialty is ground scent and do not usually attack but have been trained to do so if needed however their usual job is to lead their handler to the source of the scent where attack dogs would usually take over from there .
There are 2 types of tracker / search dogs . The tracker dogs are usually held by the handler whilst search dogs are allowed to roam free from their handler and usually search and sniff out meter by meter with a team of dog handlers using other types of dogs as mentioned .Your scent can be detected in the air aswell as on the ground .

Some of the "Give aways".
Wet clothes , sweating heavily or over worn clothes can give off strong smells that the dog can pick up . When evading dogs , be aware of your cloths and kit. A dog can hear high pitched noises that humans do not , so the squeak of your boots or utensils clashing around in your kit will be more easily picked up by a dog than a human . Even lighting a match or the burning of a camp fire flame can be picked up over a mile away with a dog . An achilles heal that the tracker and attack dogs do have like many dogs is their eye sight . Most animals including a dog that has fantastic eye sight and smell , usually hold their heads near the ground for picking up scent , this is an indicator that their eye sight lacks where their scent of smell exceeds . This is why dogs are quick to see anything that interupts the sky line as it offers movement for their vision to pick up . An advantage can be found in weather when it is raining . Rain offers background noise and can muffle strong or high pitched sounds , so take advantage of rain when it comes , heavy rain also can wash away smells left on the floor and can make it quite hard for tracker / attack dogs to find you .
Another way to evade dogs is to go down wind from them as sound travels quite well in the wind and if the wind is blowing towards a dog , it is 3 times as likely that they will pick up on your position , so keep down wind .

The strongest smell comes from under your arms .So try not to get nervous or frightened when evading dogs as it lets off sweat that the dogs can pick up . Also if you are on the move and carrying heavy equipment , try not to move to the point that it makes you sweat unless ultra emergency , moving slowly and easy is the best way to escape tracker/hunter/attack dogs .
Soap/washing your cloths , deodorant can also give you away , and if you touch a tree with molecules of these things on your body ( deodorant/shampoo/soap/ the chances are , is that you will transfer these molecules onto anything you touch . Things like trees , bushes , branches etc . So be aware , don't be a "tarts handbag" when escaping from being tracked .Wet cloths can also give off strong smells , so don't let you clothes get damp .

It doesnt take much to allow a dog to pick up your scent . a persons sweat can last up to around 50hrs because of various reasons .
1 ) touch as mentioned .
2 ) sweat .
3 ) just movement alone .

The sweat coming from your feet is more easily detected from your toes than your heal points on your foot prints or where you have stepped . This is because people push from their step using their toes and this pushes out air from the shoe . The air that comes from the shoe will Carry scent which can be much different to the scent from the air that's squeezed out from the ground as you walk and because it can linger , it will be detected from a tracker dog . Even using a frequently used foot path may not throw off the tracker dog as it has as much smell recognition to peoples scent as we do regarding peoples faces , so do not think that a frequently used path will throw them off your trail although later you will see that it can help confuse them a little or atleast make them work harder .

The good news .
Just because a dog can out smell you / out hear you and even out run you , it doesnt mean that it can out think you hence the good news . One can out think a tracker / attack dog .
You can out-tit and confuse these dogs .

1 ) Escape or approach down wind .
2 ) Move slow and easy - don't sweet .
3 ) Use what ever natural objects you can as cover like natural under growth , hedges and also keep as low as possible when your out in the open .
4 ) Only if you have too - use foot paths usually used by other people . It wont through off a smart dog but can help .
5 ) If you are about 150 meters away from them and have a target to reach , don't stop for anything . Tracker and attack dogs have been known to pick up scent down upwind at this distance . So if your freedom lays beyond you less than 200yeards , go for it and don't stop but keep as quiet and possible .
6 ) If you are in a compound or a built up area , try to get above ground before they track your scent . Dogs don't usually smell scent from up there and if they do , they might be confused as heck trying to find out where it comes from .
7 ) If near a dog and its handler -- keep still . People have been known to have tracker dogs pass them at less than 5 meters away and not detect them because they stayed still .

If you have "NO CHOICE" .
If you have been caught or are in attack range of a dog , the best method of affective immobilisation is to allow the dog to bite you 1st !
yep -- let the dog bite you 1st !

This allows for the dog to be committed to one part of your body whilst you are now able to assess all its week spots . Wrap something around your arm and offer it out for a grasp that the dog will inevitably bite . This is also out thinking a dog , as it is trained to go for things like arms , answer you know this and offer it to them , thus fooling the dog into a false sense of security .
If you manage to still stand as the dog bites , club the bastard ! ( LOL ) .Usually across the bridge of its nose or on the tip of its nose . You can thrust your fingers in its eye ball sockets and play with its brains or grab its wind pipe in the throat and squeeze your hardest to quickly suffocate the dog . Kill it ! if you just strangle it till it drops it might get back up once it has recovered , so if you have to crush its wind pipe and the dog does collapse , keep crushing for a good minuet if you have time otherwise club the git !
If the dog leaps at you , try to get at its throat or atleast hold the dog away from you at arms length and work your way round its back . You can then either break its scrawny neck or again crush its wind pipe . Another alternative is to make you way to its legs and split the front legs if you can really fats at 180 degrees or further . ( Right leg to the right and left leg to the left as far as you can .) This will rip its insides or tear out heart in two if done right . Don't be afraid to go for the big cracking sound , that will fix good old Rex to an early night for ever .
Always offer your arm in padded cloths if you can , to convince the dog to bite your offering is far better than to scrap it bouncing around .


BASICS .

AVASION .
Even if you have no idea whether you are being tracked by handlers and their dogs keeping as close to the ground helps to keep all smells less airborne and will help keep your scent to that area as other things like natural obsticles and plant growth can capture and prevent scents travelling far from your hide.
Place you clothing on top of you thus the ground will absorb most of your scent and your cloths may offer defence to stop your scent traveling in the air .
A small dugout can also help you . Get into a dig out below ground level as your scent will absorb into the near by ground that surrounds you and the undergrowth .
Breathing into the ground or towards it helps your scent to be absorbed . Stay still . No smoke or fires . No rubbish or things left behind . If you are discovered , then you might have to run your backside off .

Using tracks and foot paths can help make the dog work much harder to find you .
If you are part of a group it helps to split up from time to time and also doubling back on your self also helps . Important - before splitting up create rendezvous for each party to know where to meet up later on during the escape .
Using streams .
Cris crossing in the stream and also creating doubling back tactics like creating a diamond shape from one side of the stream to the other and back on it self can really confuse the dog . Using streams can tire you out so be aware of your physical health .The doubling back diamond shaped criss crosses can confuse the dogs because they wont know which one is your exit route etc , so its a good thing to do across streams .

When preparing food of any kind be aware of the wind direction . Handle all foods and rappers as small as possible because if you have to disregard anything , the smell of food and your scent is the difference to that dog knowings its food ----------or -------------YOUR food . If you have to bury something , handle it as least as possible and also do not cover the rubbish etc with soul that is touched by your hands as you will leave a scent . Instead use a branch or a spade / anything that can help.

If you are sighted -- bloody well Peg it .( LOL ) .
Running fast if seen is the best tactic and if luck helps you , you can use cliff faces and or bad terrane to tire out the dogs and the handlers . This is a good tactic because it can knock their confidence and can also create mental fatigue and course arguments and hard feelings with the people in the tracker group .
If you are within reach of a dog , you will definitely know whether it is a tracker or an attacker . Attack dogs do what it says on the tin and just one look at it will let you know whether you are about to be lunch or not . Tracker dogs are trained to attack if needed but rarely attack , the dull deputy dog look on its face is the dead give away .Be more aware of the attack dogs than the tracker dogs as far as being face to face goes . the attacker dog is a nasty bit of work and don't go down easily so if you have got to this , you know what to do .
However ; if you have been caught up on by any of these dogs , its not the dogs that become the problem as they can be easily put 6 foot under , its the handler group and their back-up fire power .
if you have "put the dog to a good home as they say on TV ) , move as fast as you can and get out of handlers sights . get rid of loose clothing and weight that can slow you down . If you have read the other threads in the survival section , getting rid of tents , bivvies or other equipment shouldn't really bother you as you would have packed a grab and run bag which will supply basic needs anyway even if that was all you had after dumping everything . If you do dump clothing and gear , spread it out or strategicly put in a route that you intend not to take , this can offer you time as the team searching for you will be distracted by it .

Once you have done this , various steps and tactical actions can be repeated as mentioned above .




Jee wiz folks , that's a long thread for me to make .

Please use this thread in conjunction with another of mine .
Cities/towns- and when the SHTF .

On that thread are links to an array of smart knowledge supplied from various people on this forum and to other links .
They are detailed , easy to read and make great need to know knowledge for you to enjoy . Knowing this knowledge could save your life and you are reminded to always research these subjects your self as those who have posted threads here are not survival specialists , but more like survivalist enthusiasts that just like giving people the knowledge that it takes to live beyond the system of things . Its better to know and to have than to be caught belly up and have no preps .


here is that link to getting out of cities and towns when the sh-t hits the fan .

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=75250



anyway here is the link to that thread and all its contents .
many thanks to members of this forum for their dedication and time / energy and for their credits and donations to my other threads as my threads have been enhanced with links to theirs . Many thanks folks .

Stay well ,
live life
have fun
safe journey
live long and do prosper
peace and love be with you all ------always .

lets just hope , that we never have to use this knowledge .

Last edited by tracker; 01-08-2009 at 08:51 PM. Reason: spelling.
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Old 01-08-2009, 08:39 PM   #2
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Good post What you failed to mention tho is the dog will hear your arsehole flapping at 200yds when u hear the commotion behind u
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Old 01-08-2009, 08:40 PM   #3
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Good post What you failed to mention tho is the dog will hear your arsehole flapping at 200yds when u hear the commotion behind u


yep and the mile long streek of runny poo .
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Old 01-08-2009, 08:58 PM   #4
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Yep , it is bad news when your being tracked by a dog handler group .
If its got to that it is a bad situation in deed , and when the dog has cought up with you , the handler group wont be far behind .

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Old 02-08-2009, 12:21 PM   #5
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bump.
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Old 02-08-2009, 12:24 PM   #6
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Just a little tip. Raw amonia on the dogs snout and he loses his sense of smell for the next hour.

That's how burglars in South Africa get past scarey guard dogs.
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Old 02-08-2009, 12:25 PM   #7
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Just a little tip. Raw amonia on the dogs snout and he loses his sense of smell for the next hour.

That's how burglars in South Africa get past scarey guard dogs.
Thats a good idea , one small bottle of amonia , lay down some on your tracks maybe on a bit of meat , and wow

no woof woof for a while .

thanks for the tip , well handy .
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Old 03-08-2009, 03:25 PM   #8
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Very good thread. Nice one.

I was in a situation once where an attack dog was being used to try to intimidate myself and a few friends. Only problem was the dog was male and I had a bitch in season (on heat). The attack dog was completely useless and was just panting away trying to get near my dog. Could be useful for laying down a trail.

The dog handlers face was an absolute picture as well.
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Old 03-08-2009, 10:14 PM   #9
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Very good thread. Nice one.

I was in a situation once where an attack dog was being used to try to intimidate myself and a few friends. Only problem was the dog was male and I had a bitch in season (on heat). The attack dog was completely useless and was just panting away trying to get near my dog. Could be useful for laying down a trail.

The dog handlers face was an absolute picture as well.

I have had a recent source tell me that putting cow dung in your shoes also helps .
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Old 04-08-2009, 09:44 AM   #10
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Chilli powder. Knocks them out for life I've heard. Good for covering the taste up of leaves and grass too Trackers are a limited resource

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Old 04-08-2009, 07:45 PM   #11
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Not really practical, I concede, but I couldn't resist mentioning how Merlin defeated an attacking army whose fearsome dogs could disrupt their shield-wall, in Bernard Cornwell's Warlord Trilogy.

He rounded up all the bitches on heat he could find - job done.
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Old 04-08-2009, 08:04 PM   #12
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Not really practical, I concede, but I couldn't resist mentioning how Merlin defeated an attacking army whose fearsome dogs could disrupt their shield-wall, in Bernard Cornwell's Warlord Trilogy.

He rounded up all the bitches on heat he could find - job done.
yep , it might be true but it does sound funny .
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Old 25-03-2010, 08:00 PM   #13
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lol since I just wrote a book on the other one, I"ll put it here too. Tracker has a very solid methodology, I got some tricks up my sleeve I've learned running hounds and such.

For now I'll simply say keep moving, while they are tracking they won't be outrunning you. They are limited by the handlers speed. Also the handler is the weak link not the dog.

If you don't have a knife see if you can find a rock sharp enough to put a point on a stick. A short stick is fine it will be handy if the dogs catch up to put them out of commission, grab a very sturdy piece of hardwood and make a stake out of it.

Try to move downwind if thats impossible go over extreme terrain. Stay hydrated and keep going.

I'll detail my traps and dog evasion techniques later but if you saw the other post you know them.
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Old 25-03-2010, 08:03 PM   #14
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Just a little tip. Raw amonia on the dogs snout and he loses his sense of smell for the next hour.

That's how burglars in South Africa get past scarey guard dogs.
If you can't physicaly apply it a good dog won't fall for it. My dog will not sniff any foreign objects because he can smell it from hundreds of yards away and I have applied such things to his snout to teach him not to touch.

A good dog will have had the same treatment. The best way to disable the dog is to take a dirty sock off and lace it with fishhooks or glass or other very sharp and pointy objects. The item covered in your scent will make the dog associate your scent with pain and hes trained to avoid that.. hes out of commission or is confused because the trainer is now double talking and wanting him to do something he has trained him not to. To follow a scent that hurts him.
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Old 25-03-2010, 09:48 PM   #15
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lol since I just wrote a book on the other one, I"ll put it here too. Tracker has a very solid methodology, I got some tricks up my sleeve I've learned running hounds and such.

For now I'll simply say keep moving, while they are tracking they won't be outrunning you. They are limited by the handlers speed. Also the handler is the weak link not the dog.

If you don't have a knife see if you can find a rock sharp enough to put a point on a stick. A short stick is fine it will be handy if the dogs catch up to put them out of commission, grab a very sturdy piece of hardwood and make a stake out of it.

Try to move downwind if thats impossible go over extreme terrain. Stay hydrated and keep going.

I'll detail my traps and dog evasion techniques later but if you saw the other post you know them.

Ive replied to that post you made on Wazaaps thread .
You made some outstanding points for tactical aplications .
Very good indeed .

I shall supply the link to that page here for people to see more info about this subject;

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showt...t=36317&page=3


.

Last edited by tracker; 25-03-2010 at 09:49 PM.
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Old 25-03-2010, 11:01 PM   #16
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Think Dog and counter.
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Old 25-03-2010, 11:01 PM   #17
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Thanks tracker

Growing up around here we were militant little kids, we played alot of manhunt. And well hillbillies and hounds go hand in hand almost, its good to practice because you can find unique answers to problems and learn from others as well. I've learned a few more tricks for my arsenal reading here, for instance from now on when I set a trap and want to recon my quarry I will do as you say and get in a low depression that I can view my trail from downwind. And maybe if I need a club I'll use a sock with rocks, should have remember that from full metal jacket lol.


I don't recommend anyone tries to get loose from an attack dog without protection like that. I trained with leather greaves on instead of thick padding, but the excercise was about a sudden release of dogs on you without preparation time. Trying to see if its possible to get away from the dog and the following handlers, with one dog its possible but close, with two dogs if you have a weapon its doable easily. I got loose pretty fast, maybe 3-4 seconds. One thing I really should mention about that, don't wait for the dog to clamp down as soon as its mouth is open and you shove your arm inside it HARD, you will be at the pinch point but most dogs teeth there aren't as damaging at tje back of the jaw and as soon as you got its throat it looses strength fast. If its gripping real hard then use your arm as a level to twist the dogs head, it will loose some strength that way and the pressure will lessen dramaticaly. Your arm can be used as a lever and levers apply alot of force, even more than the dogs bite. Though I must admit its easier to do that with leather guards because I don't have teeth ripping my flesh, but still doable given adrenaline and shock and all. Its possible to do this with your arm wrapped up, make loose wraps so you can jerk your arm out the side it may be stuck on the teeth and the little roll might not work with padding. But don't try this at home, something to keep in the back of your head in case some jerk kids release their dogs on you or something you can go rambo on them.

Attack dogs are not used to aggressive targets, the dog I trained with was shocked and actually tried to get away from me. Granted it was a county attack dog so it wasn't as viscious as some the state have and maybe private citizens.

Last edited by dhcracker; 25-03-2010 at 11:34 PM.
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Old 26-03-2010, 09:24 AM   #18
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Thanks tracker

Growing up around here we were militant little kids, we played alot of manhunt. And well hillbillies and hounds go hand in hand almost, its good to practice because you can find unique answers to problems and learn from others as well. I've learned a few more tricks for my arsenal reading here, for instance from now on when I set a trap and want to recon my quarry I will do as you say and get in a low depression that I can view my trail from downwind. And maybe if I need a club I'll use a sock with rocks, should have remember that from full metal jacket lol.


I don't recommend anyone tries to get loose from an attack dog without protection like that. I trained with leather greaves on instead of thick padding, but the excercise was about a sudden release of dogs on you without preparation time. Trying to see if its possible to get away from the dog and the following handlers, with one dog its possible but close, with two dogs if you have a weapon its doable easily. I got loose pretty fast, maybe 3-4 seconds. One thing I really should mention about that, don't wait for the dog to clamp down as soon as its mouth is open and you shove your arm inside it HARD, you will be at the pinch point but most dogs teeth there aren't as damaging at tje back of the jaw and as soon as you got its throat it looses strength fast. If its gripping real hard then use your arm as a level to twist the dogs head, it will loose some strength that way and the pressure will lessen dramaticaly. Your arm can be used as a lever and levers apply alot of force, even more than the dogs bite. Though I must admit its easier to do that with leather guards because I don't have teeth ripping my flesh, but still doable given adrenaline and shock and all. Its possible to do this with your arm wrapped up, make loose wraps so you can jerk your arm out the side it may be stuck on the teeth and the little roll might not work with padding. But don't try this at home, something to keep in the back of your head in case some jerk kids release their dogs on you or something you can go rambo on them.

Attack dogs are not used to aggressive targets, the dog I trained with was shocked and actually tried to get away from me. Granted it was a county attack dog so it wasn't as viscious as some the state have and maybe private citizens.
Again this is excellent information and it comes from experience with that extra human touch as they say .

I learned a few things as life went on , what with some of the most silly situations I found my self in as I grew up ( and not just in armed forces ).

If a dog has managed to bite your hand and fingers , there are a few things that you might be able to do before they bite off your fingers .

Press down real hard on their tongue and force it to the back of their throat .
The dog ( usually ) will automatically try to reject your hand with their tongue and attempt to push your hand out of their mouth .

You could just use your finger as a spear and thrust it into their eye and use no mercy , go for the brain as they say , do it as hard as you can . It is that or have your fingers off .

If you do have your arm in their mouth , ( well done on that lever thing BTW , very handy information to know ) you could lever their mouth to grab the top of their nearest leg .
with the other hand you could grab the other leg and pull the legs apart as far as you can and as hard as you can . Do it so hard that you split the dogs rib cage or the heart will split .

You could use the arm as a lever and fall down onto the dog to restrict its movements .
A real hard punch the the mid section of the chest or a grab the wind pipe and squeeze it like your gripping for your life .
The dog will faint .
Now you have a choice , either leave the dog to recover so that it can chase you again and who knows , this time they might just bite your throat and kill you or
you could carry on until dead .
================================================== =========

This concerns normal street dogs .
( Not police or army attack dogs )

Have you ever walked down the road and been suddenly frightened or surprised by a dog out of nowhere ?
or
You can see the dog and it makes its way to you and starts barking and almost attacking you ?

How to stop this ?

It works for me and has worked for me over three times now .

I call it ( the monkey position )

Squat down real fast ( as though sitting on an invisible chair )
Open up your arms wide ( like being on a cross )
Raw loud .

Watch the dog as it suddenly skids on the spot stopping instantly and backs off barking .
If you then run at it as soon as it skids and starts backing off the dog will run off .

two or three things have happened in those split seconds .

To explain this it does need a bit more detail .

1stly , Have you noticed how dogs always use their sense of smell and walk around sniffing the ground ?
This is because their noses are better than their eyes .
I am not saying that a dogs eye sight is bad , Im saying that their sense of smell is better than their sense of sight which is why they use their noses so much .
Most normal civilian dogs are used to this way of seeing the world .
That's why some small dogs like Yorkshire terrier are not afraid to bite a human being which can be up to ten times its height.
( in a way ) its because they are unable to compare their body mass and height to ours .
That's why they come close up and bite the legs or why dogs jump up to attack us .Not just because of our height but in their own little world it brings them to the same height as us . It is an automatic reaction .

Now this gets me to this point about the monkey position .
Dogs don't see us in our entirety as a whole .
They mainly see our legs , the rest of us comes with how their approach us and as they approach us .

when we suddenly drop down to the seated position and open our arms wide , it increases our area at their height .
see what i am saying ?
at their height our body mass ( according to their mentality ) has suddenly increased 3 times .
The dog might just find this too much to take in , too much to compensate for .
Why ?
because before they approach you they have already committed their minds to what we are and how we are .

Which now gets me to this point .

It mucks up the dogs mind .
A psychological mind fk for the dog .

which now gets me to this point .
In that split second when the dog appears startled , keep your arms open wide , now you can stand up with your arms open wide and run at it .
the dog will now focus on your body mass and height and more than likely run away .
Some times they differ here and there , bark back , jump back and forwards all confused but they will eventually run away .

It is in those few seconds that you must strike .
when anything is caught off guard and is startled when attacking it usually will run .

All animals have two main instincts .
Prey ( food )
Survival ( run )

you can knock the balance knowing how their minds work .

DO NOT FORGET !
THIS TACTIC IS FOR STREET DOGS ONLY .

IT WILL NOT WORK ONA PROFESIONALLY TRAINED ATTACK DOG !


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Old 26-03-2010, 03:45 PM   #19
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Yeah thats pretty good, it works on bears as well.

12 yrs old I was chased off a mountain by a black bear, yes I got away but I was running down a 40% incline by jumping into the tops of sapplings and letting them bend over and lower me down. I fell a couple times but my forward motion was never stopped lol, that bear may have been laughing at me I don't know it sure must have looked hilarious to an observer.

However I have also ran into a bear where I could not outrun it. I made myself look very large like you describe, I grabbed two large sticks too and started knocking them together. The bear kind of twisted its head growled, then turned and sulked away.

As far as street dogs, they do not like me. They run and retreat as long as I'm facing them when I turn my back sometimes they try to snap at my heels lol. Some dogs also appear to be nice and ok then WHAM its attached to your boot. I don't like to be bitten by dogs, pit bulls can be difficult to get off too.

Your methods tracker are good and field tested for bear even.
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Old 26-03-2010, 07:45 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by dhcracker View Post
Yeah thats pretty good, it works on bears as well.

12 yrs old I was chased off a mountain by a black bear, yes I got away but I was running down a 40% incline by jumping into the tops of sapplings and letting them bend over and lower me down. I fell a couple times but my forward motion was never stopped lol, that bear may have been laughing at me I don't know it sure must have looked hilarious to an observer.

However I have also ran into a bear where I could not outrun it. I made myself look very large like you describe, I grabbed two large sticks too and started knocking them together. The bear kind of twisted its head growled, then turned and sulked away.

As far as street dogs, they do not like me. They run and retreat as long as I'm facing them when I turn my back sometimes they try to snap at my heels lol. Some dogs also appear to be nice and ok then WHAM its attached to your boot. I don't like to be bitten by dogs, pit bulls can be difficult to get off too.

Your methods tracker are good and field tested for bear even.
LOL you made me smile loads .
I can imagine your netherlands getting battered jumping over those sapplings PMSL . I would have stopped running had I have been there through tummy ache laughing so much . Gulp gulp bear eats tracker for supper .

It's the kind of thing you only see on cartoons or funny films lol.

I am not sure if the moneky position works on small terriers the little bastrds
mainly because of height again but it definately works on dogs knee height or over .

I had no idea it works on bears too thanks for that information as it might help some day , ya never know because some day I would like to go to Canada but thats a dream at the moment .
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