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Old 17-04-2009, 08:01 PM   #1
airkraft
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Default FEMA type camps in the UK ?

I was thinking about the FEMA camps that have been built in America, and wondered if we had something similarly secret here in the UK.

I realised then that we have been brought up with the idea that camps with perimeter fencing and everything you need inside it are a good place to be........think Pontins and Butlins.

After they have been taken over by the govt, are we going to led to believe that these camps are the best place for us in the event of a catastophe of some sort and us willingly taking up residence.

I havent seen or heard of anything else that fits the FEMA camps bill in the UK otherwise
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Old 17-04-2009, 08:04 PM   #2
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I think the schools double up as containment centres, all the schools in my area got remade as big brother style prisons all at the same time
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Old 17-04-2009, 08:15 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airkraft View Post
I was thinking about the FEMA camps that have been built in America, and wondered if we had something similarly secret here in the UK.

I realised then that we have been brought up with the idea that camps with perimeter fencing and everything you need inside it are a good place to be........think Pontins and Butlins.

After they have been taken over by the govt, are we going to led to believe that these camps are the best place for us in the event of a catastophe of some sort and us willingly taking up residence.

I havent seen or heard of anything else that fits the FEMA camps bill in the UK otherwise
At least we will have some good entertainment from the red coats and we will be able to play bingo, while incarcerated, we may even still be allowed fish and chips.
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Old 17-04-2009, 08:30 PM   #4
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A year or so back gordon Brown was talking about building massive prisons for around 2000 people, 'Titan' he wanted to call them

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7129277.stm

Hohoho, notice the star on this site...

http://libcom.org/news/titan-prisons...begin-02102008

http://www.prisonreformtrust.org.uk/...rd.asp?id=1502

28 August 2008: Titan prisons: a gigantic mistake

Building US style huge Titan prisons will do little, or nothing, to cut crime and instead destabilise the criminal justice system for years to come by bringing about future overcrowding crises and higher reoffending rates. In a report published today at the end of the public consultation period on Titan prisons, the Prison Reform Trust reveals that the government has no proper evidence or adequate funding for its desperate plan to build giant prisons. It points out that it is not too late to avoid a costly and damaging mistake by investing in more effective measures instead.

The report, ‘Titan prisons: a gigantic mistake’ publishes a new analysis based on data from the Chief Inspector of Prisons, comparing small and large prisons against 154 different factors used to assess safe and effective prisons.

In two-thirds of the factors compared (102/154), smaller prisons scored significantly better than large ones;
In 38 of the 102 areas, the disparity exceeded ten percentage points;
For 19 of the 24 factors concerning safety, small prisons scored significantly better. For example, 38 per cent of prisoners in large prisons said it was easy to obtain illegal drugs, compared to 26 per cent of prisoners in smaller prisons;
For resettlement, small prisons were better for 18 out of 28 compared and were worse for only one.
Plans for three Titan prisons, each holding 2,500 prisoners and with the first opening in 2012, were proposed by Lord Carter’s review of prisons and accepted by ministers in December 2007. A Ministry of Justice consultation on how Titan prisons might work was launched in June and closes today.

The report also warns the government is repeating past mistakes by prioritising prison building over tackling the underlying reasons for the rising prison population. A report published last month by the influential cross party House of Commons Justice select committee found the prisons crisis to be a direct result of the Government failing to follow its twin track strategy of reserving prison for serious and violent offenders and using community orders, rather than ineffective short prison sentences, for minor offenders.

The cost of Titan prisons is also highlighted in the report as an area of concern. Initial government statements indicated the cost of the entire prison building programme would be £1.2 billion before ministers clarified the cost would be almost double that at £2.3 billion. This excludes all associated and running costs.

The report reveals that the estimate for the construction costs of Titan prisons has already increased by 30 per cent from £350m to £450m each.

The report is heavily critical of the approach taken by Lord Carter and expresses concern that his review’s call for Titan prisons runs counter to expert advice and may have been predetermined at the outset. The report reveals that only 17 of the 51 organisations, agencies and individuals Lord Carter met during his review inquiry were consulted on Titans. Of these 9 were private companies – construction firms and private prison operators with a clear vested interest in a prison building programme. Six were government departments.

Juliet Lyon, director of the Prison Reform Trust, accused the government of acting recklessly in an economic downturn and said:

“The government is on the verge of making a massive, costly and hugely damaging mistake that will destabilise the criminal justice system for years to come. Giant US-style prisons may be easier to build but all the evidence here and abroad says the price we would pay in running them, and in higher reoffending rates, is far too high.

“If ministers want prisons to be focused on rehabilitation, rather than warehousing offenders until they are released, then it is not too late to make these plans disappear as fast as they appeared. Ministers should look at the evidence and listen to the people who run and regulate our prisons.

“The way out of this hole is not to carrying on digging by building super-sized titan prisons in a futile attempt to catch up with rising prison numbers. Instead the billions earmarked for Titans and the massive prison building programme should be used far more effectively to resource sentencing options which would see addicts getting treatment, the mentally ill gaining access to healthcare and petty offenders doing enforced community work to pay back for the harm they have caused.”

The report sets out a range of policy measures ministers should implement immediately to relieve the pressure on places. These include:

a national network of police and court schemes diverting many people with mental health needs or learning disabilities away from the criminal justice system into health and social care;
the full and immediate implementation of the Corston review to end the unnecessary imprisonment of women for minor offences;
adequate funding for community orders so that the courts have confidence in their availability and effectiveness;
better treatment for offenders with drink or drug addictions;
the establishment of a Sentencing Commission based on the existing Sentencing Guidelines Council to end ‘sentence inflation’ and help call a halt to the politicisation of sentencing.
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Old 17-04-2009, 08:44 PM   #5
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We will have containment centres for dissidents when they get to that phase over here, absolutely. It's likely that the European camps may be used.
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Old 17-04-2009, 09:32 PM   #6
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Isn't there supposed to be an 'experimental' one on the Isle Of Man?

I can't remember where I read it... it was either here or Alex Jones/Infowars.

Perhaps someone could clarify this.

The 'Titan' project is the wet dream of the socialist left. Pray they don't get their way.
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Old 17-04-2009, 09:36 PM   #7
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they have been given the go-ahead

http://libcom.org/news/titan-prisons...begin-02102008




Titan prisons: "consultation" ends, construction set to begin
Submitted by Django on Oct 2 2008
tags: UK military and law enforcement police public and third sector prisons
With the required political processes out of the way, the building of the 2,500 capacity jails is set to begin.

A new report by the Prisons Reform Trust has accompanied the end of the “consultation” period on the government's policy of constructing huge new “titan” prisons, which Gordon Brown has stated will mean the beginning of construction of the jails.

The scheme was originally slated to cost £1.2 billion, before ministers doubled the sum, now standing at £2.4 billion, excluding all running and associated costs. They are set to hold around 2,500 inmates, being built around London, the Midlands and the North-West.

An official government review of the program took place at the end of 2007, under Lord Carter. It argued for the construction of new Titan prisons in order to hold the expanding prison population, based on economies of scale. According to the Prisons Reform Trust report, the exercise was cooked in order to produce the desired outcome, and was potentially premised on this. Carter met 51 individuals and representatives from organisations, but only 17 of these were questioned about Titans, and over half of these had a clear vested interest in the program, being construction firms, private prison operators and government departments.

The consultation paper excluded any meaningful discussion of the criticisms of massive prisons, being focused instead on how Titans will function inside the prison system. The terms of “debate” have been shifted from last year, where the focus was on whether Titans should be built, to how they will hold a projected population, to the “consultation” paper where “discussion” was organised around how “Titans can strengthen our ability to provide … comprehensive rehabilitation to individual offenders.” In the words of the PRT report, “it seems as though the government embarked on the search for arguments in favour of Titans only after deciding to go ahead.”

The prisons are almost certain to involve private funding through a private finance initiative. Though the Labour party claimed to oppose private jails whilst in opposition, their use has been expanded massively, along with PFI involvement in the seizure and imprisonment of asylum seekers. 10% of prisons are now run by companies such as Serco and Group 4, who pay their staff less than the government, and by the government's standards, perform poorly.

Larger prisons are documented to put inmates at higher risk, and to increase the levels of reoffending. At the same time, a recent study by Carol Hedderman at King's College London has shown that the levels of serious crime have actually remained static for the last five years, and that the increase in prison population has been based on increased rates of incarceration for other kinds of crime.

The Trust highlights that the prison building scheme is being pushed through as the world economy is gripped by a serious crisis, with Britain looking to be severely hit. The clear implication is that economic contraction, and any government-sanctioned austerity, will increase crime significantly as in similar scenarios historically. The prisons will be ready to incarcerate the increased number turning to crime out of necessity and desperation, punishing the victims of the crisis while protecting those responsible, and the system of private property. Strikingly, the program is being pursused at the same time as “reforms” to benefits which will force claimants to work for the dole. The connection between prisons and class society is clear, even if such an analysis is outside of the purview of a liberal organisation such as the Prisons Reform Trust, which would prefer “strong political leadership” on a crime policy with which they agree.

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Old 18-04-2009, 01:24 AM   #8
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We won't be getting FEMA camps here until we start having prison riots.....
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Old 18-04-2009, 02:44 AM   #9
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"The Trust highlights that the prison building scheme is being pushed through as the world economy is gripped by a serious crisis, with Britain looking to be severely hit. The clear implication is that economic contraction, and any government-sanctioned austerity, will increase crime significantly as in similar scenarios historically."

Yes well once this "Summer of discontent" happens that MI5 are predicting, im sure there will be a great need for these new prisons.
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Old 18-04-2009, 03:35 AM   #10
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and there's the football stadiums
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Old 18-04-2009, 04:00 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shodan View Post
and there's the football stadiums
No, look at all the industrial parks in every city in the UK, they are all set up with mass transport in and out in mind..Most of them will be empty soon enough.



They don't need to built prisons, they have already been built.
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Old 18-04-2009, 04:01 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomahawk View Post
No, look at all the industrial parks in every city in the UK, they are all set up with mass transport in and out in mind..Most of them will be empty soon enough.



They don't need to built prisons, they have already been built.
excellent point
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Old 18-04-2009, 04:07 AM   #13
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Quote:
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and there's the football stadiums
Sorry, your point is also valid. Football grounds will be used as initial holding areas/transport points.

Last edited by tomahawk; 18-04-2009 at 04:08 AM.
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Old 18-04-2009, 04:12 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by tomahawk View Post
Sorry, your point is also valid. Football grounds will be used as initial holding areas/transport points.
yep, very possible, and its been done in the past in Iraq or Palestine, can't remember where right now, and practised during Katrina/New Orleans
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Old 18-04-2009, 04:42 AM   #15
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yep, very possible, and its been done in the past in Iraq or Palestine, can't remember where right now, and practised during Katrina/New Orleans
I know, I do not like to dwell on things like this tbh, but I know it is coming down. Think of a city like Liverpool for example, who there doesn't know where every football ground is!. I know where I would be fucking off to, I would be skippin away well before hand.

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Old 18-04-2009, 09:55 AM   #16
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No, look at all the industrial parks in every city in the UK, they are all set up with mass transport in and out in mind..Most of them will be empty soon enough.



They don't need to built prisons, they have already been built.
But I`m sure that most of the "Holiday" Camps have Road and Rail not just road.

I was thinking of a more long term thing for being in these camps. Yes, football stadia for short term as well as some industrial parks, but long term holiday camps is the way to go. Some people will be clamouring to get in there before anyone else, which equals good propoganda for those to start selling the product. Once a few are there, more will come, willingly.
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Old 18-04-2009, 10:00 AM   #17
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There's a thread been running also (general forum) re schools having 8' high fencing errected around their grounds, with a section at the top that's angled inwards, suggesting they're to keep people in, rather than out.

I've noticed a couple of junior schools within walkin distance of my house with just such fencing, and wouldn't be surprised if these are intended to be utilised as short-term holding facilities.
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Old 18-04-2009, 10:08 AM   #18
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Before I moved out of Milton Keynes I noticed that they had built new schools with high fences and that they had cctv and there were not many windows in them either.
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Old 18-04-2009, 10:12 AM   #19
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Quote:
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But I`m sure that most of the "Holiday" Camps have Road and Rail not just road.

I was thinking of a more long term thing for being in these camps. Yes, football stadia for short term as well as some industrial parks, but long term holiday camps is the way to go. Some people will be clamouring to get in there before anyone else, which equals good propoganda for those to start selling the product. Once a few are there, more will come, willingly.

They won't be selling.
It won't be a holiday camp, there won't be bingo, or fish suppers, or arcades, or any other comfort zone . I haven't a clue what city you are in (or near) but take note of industrial parks wherever you are , avoid.
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Old 18-04-2009, 10:18 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomahawk View Post
They won't be selling.
It won't be a holiday camp, there won't be bingo, or fish suppers, or arcades, or any other comfort zone . I haven't a clue what city you are in (or near) but take note of industrial parks wherever you are , avoid.
They have used old warehouses etc for the FEMA camps in the US for this, but people have also seen them doing other work on them, which looks like they are being modified to hold people.

There are industrial estates everywhere these days, I live in a rural area and there is an industrial estate not far from me.

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