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Old 04-04-2009, 08:45 PM   #1
michael christopher
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Default The Lucifer archetype.

Before I get started, I should explain how I feel about archetypal forces. Although the many different ancient religions had different Gods with different personalities and different names, they were identifying spirits that exist within all of us. For the god of art in ancient Greece, there was the avatar Apollo. Just because the god of art may have been called something else in a different part of the world, does not mean that the spirit was any different. Although characteristics cannot be easily narrowed down with such an encompassing spirit, if one is open to it, one can still see clear parallels between the ancient Gods. Many believe the the ancient Egyptian God Thoth correlates to Mercury/Hermes. The Muslim Iblis correlates clearly to Lucifer, who correlates to many other ancients (which is the point of this post). Lucifer was originally a Roman deity that was the male counterpart of Venus, the goddess of Love. Lucifer represented self-knowledge and this is why the snake has come to represent him - this pagan god was demonized by the Catholic Church and called a fallen angel because he represented archetypal forces which threatened their ability to control and enslave the masses. Ultimately Lucifer was just an archetypal avatar. He is not some dark, demonic force that is trying to corrupt everything. Lucifer is just a name that belongs to a spirit that we have been taught to fear - the spirit of knowledge. The spirit of defiance. I don't believe that Lucifer was ever Satan. Lucifer was simply what I have already stated: the name of a Roman deity that no longer is correctly acknowledged. Nothing more.

Sorry, I'm getting off track. I was saying, that we identify these spirits in different ways to understand them better. All gods are archetypal. They merely represent thought-patterns. Mercury/Hermes was the god of thought and speed, Artemis was the goddess of hunting, Apollo the god of art, Aphrodite the goddess of beauty... etc. These are just "spirits" - meaning, emotional forces. They are anthropomorphized so that we can come to understand them in human terms. It's a rather brilliant way of coming to understand the universe, actually. It is creative to view these spirits as people or as names, but at least we are viewing them. Most people just ignore any sense of distinct spiritual acknowledgment. Spirituality is not metaphorical. It is very real. It involves spirits. I am not talking about disembodied people - I am talking about emotions. You are in the spirit of happiness when you are in an excellent mood. If you were in ancient Rome, they would probably just change the language and say that the god of happiness is smiling on you today. It is just a difference of language!

Sorry, I felt the need to explain all of that. I love exploring archetypes. It really enriches my quality of life.

---

Prometheus was a Titan, and the brother of Zeus. He was on the earth before Zeus' children, the traditional Greek/Roman Gods. Prometheus defied Zeus by giving fire to mankind - an important part of their evolution. He stole this fire from Zeus. As punishment, Zeus tied him to a rock and an eagle would eat out his liver every day. It would grow back overnight and the eagle would eat it out again the next day. Here's what Wikipedia has to say about Prometheus:

Quote:
The Prometheus myth first appeared in the Greek epic poet Hesiod's (ca. 700 BCE) Theogony (lines 507-616). He was a son of the Titan, Iapetus by Themis or Clymene, one of the Oceanids. He was brother to Menoetius, Atlas, and Epimetheus. In the Theogony, Hesiod introduces Prometheus as a lowly challenger to Zeus' omniscience and omnipotence. At Sicyon, a sacrificial meal marking the "settling of accounts" between mortals and immortals, Prometheus played a trick against Zeus (545-557). He placed two sacrificial offerings before the Olympian: a selection of bull meat hidden inside an ox's stomach (nourishment hidden inside a displeasing exterior), and the bull's bones wrapped completely in "glistening fat" (something inedible hidden inside a pleasing exterior). Zeus chose the latter, setting a precedent for future sacrifices; henceforth, humans would keep the meat for themselves and burn the bones wrapped in fat as an offering to the gods. This angered Zeus, who hid fire from humans in retribution. Prometheus at once went to Athena with a plea for admittance to Olympus, and this she granted. On his arrival, he lit a torch at the fiery chariot of the Sun from which he broke at once a fragment of glowing charcoal, which he thrust into the pithy hollow of a giant fennel-stalk. Then, extinguishing his torch, he stole away, and gave fire to mankind. This further enraged Zeus, who sent Epimetheus, brother of Prometheus, Pandora, the first woman,[3] fashioned by Hephaestus out of clay and brought to life by the four winds, with all the goddesses of Olympus assembled to adorn her. "From her is the race of women and female kind," Hesiod writes; "of her is the deadly race and tribe of women who live amongst mortal men to their great trouble, no helpmeets in hateful poverty, but only in wealth."
--

Enki is an ancient God from Sumeria. There are many stories about him, but I believe he is associated with Prometheus in the pantheon of Gods. He defied his brother Enlil, who I believe is correlational to Zeus/Yawheh. Here is what Wikipedia has to say about Enki...

Quote:
According to Sumerian mythology, Enki also assisted humanity to survive the Deluge designed to kill them. In the Legend of Atrahasis, Enlil, the king of the gods, sets out to eliminate humanity, the noise of whose mating is offensive to his ears. He successively sends drought, famine and plague to eliminate humanity, but Enki thwarts his half-brother's plans by teaching Atrahasis about irrigation, granaries and medicine. Humans again proliferate a fourth time. Enraged, Enlil convenes a Council of Deities and gets them to promise not to tell humankind that he plans their total annihilation. Enki does not tell Atrahasis, but instead tells the walls of Atrahasis' (a.k.a. Utnapishtim or Ziusudra) reed hut of Enlil's plan, thus covertly rescuing Atrahasis by either instructing him to build some kind of a boat for his family, or by bringing him into the heavens in a magic boat. After the seven day Deluge, the flood hero frees a swallow, a raven and a dove in an effort to find if the flood waters have receded. On the boat landing, a sacrifice is organized to the gods. Enlil is angry his will has been thwarted yet again, and Enki is named as the culprit. As the god of what we would call ecology, Enki explains that Enlil is unfair to punish the guiltless Atrahasis for the sins of his fellows, and secures a promise that the gods will not eliminate humankind if they practice birth control and live within the means of the natural world. The threat is made, however, that if humans do not honor their side of the covenant the gods will be free to wreak havoc once again. This is apparently the oldest surviving Middle Eastern Deluge myths.
Regarding Enlil being Zeus, Enlil was the God of the four winds - also known as YVHV or the Christian Yahweh - and he destroyed human kind with the flood because he was disgusted with them. Zeus was the God of thunder and the God of weather - so wouldn't he just correlate to YVHV? Are Christians worshiping Zeus without realizing it?

--

On to Lucifer.

First, let me quote the Bible itself:

Quote:
"14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art though cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit."
These verses are from Isaiah. I keep reading this verse from Revelations:

Quote:
"22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star."
Here, Jesus refers to himself clearly as the morning star. Let's see where we begin to equate Lucifer as the morning star...

Here is a passage from 2 Peter.

Quote:
"1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:"
Here the speaker is saying that the only true word of prophecy is self-illumination, or the rising of the day star within the heart. But Lucifer is the day star/morning star, according to traditional Christian thought. That doesn't make sense as Christ refers to himself as the morning star in Revelation...

Let's see what Wikipedia has to say about Lucifer.

Quote:
"Lucifer is a name frequently given to Satan in Christian belief. This usage as a reference to a fallen angel stems from a particular interpretation of a passage in the Bible (Isaiah 14:3-20) that speaks of someone who is given the name of "Day Star" or "Morning Star" (in Latin, Lucifer) as fallen from heaven. The same Latin word is used of the morning star in 2 Peter 1:19 and elsewhere with no relation to Satan. However, in many writings later than those of the Bible the Latin word has been used, without being translated as "Morning Star" and the like, as a proper name with which to designate Satan.

In Latin, the word "Lucifer", meaning "Light-Bringer" (from lux, lucis, "light", and ferre, "to bear, bring"), is a name for the "Morning Star" (the planet Venus in its dawn appearances).[2] The Latin Vulgate version of the Bible used this word twice to refer to the Morning Star: once in 2 Peter 1:19 to translate the Greek word "Φωσφόρος" (Phosphoros),[3] which has exactly the same literal meaning of "Light-Bringer" that "Lucifer" has in Latin; and once in Isaiah 14:12 to translate "הילל" (HĂȘlēl), which also means "Morning Star". In the latter passage the title of "Morning Star" is given to the tyrannous Babylonian king, who the prophet says is destined to fall. This passage was later applied to the prince of the demons, and so the name "Lucifer" came to be used for Satan, and was popularized in works such as Dante Alighieri's Inferno and John Milton's Paradise Lost, but for English speakers the greatest influence has been its use in the King James Version (more modern English versions translate the term as "Morning Star" or "Day Star")."
The Bible never clearly designates Lucifer as the morning star or as the day star, however it does clearly designate Christ as the morning star. So why is it that Christianity has for so long demonized Lucifer as the morning star? There is a lot more here as well. As I mentioned previously, Lucifer was originally nothing more than a Roman deity, the male counterpart to the female Venus, Greek correspondent Aphrodite, who was the Goddess of Love and Beauty. He was the God of the morning star in Roman antiquity, and is listed here amongst many other deity counterparts...

List of Minor Roman Gods

Although Lucifer is not referred to in the English translation of the Bible as the morning star, his very name means Morning Star in Latin, so he is referred to in the same principle as Jesus.

Lucifer is mentioned in only one place in the Bible and it is commonly held in Judaic tradition that Lucifer is NOT Satan.

I'm just pointing out the facts here. People get very emotional about this without even realizing they they are frightened of things that don't even exist...

There are some very bizarre translations in the King James Bible that leave out the mention of Lucifer where it exists in the original Greek texts. You can use your own imagination to figure out why. One example is in Job 11:17:

Quote:
"11:17 And thine age shall be clearer than noonday; thou shalt shine forth, thou shalt be as the morning."
Let's be clear about the context here - this passage is talking about renewal and security. But why does it mention that one shall be as the morning, when in the original Biblical text it stated that one shall be as Lucifer?

I am starting to feel like these English translations of the Bible are completely worthless. They obscure the original meanings of the passages. Perhaps there is a greater truth to be found in the original documents... maybe less anthropomorphic conclusions would be drawn. But then again, maybe not.

I guess my point is that Lucifer would be correspondent with the archetypal Prometheus and Enki, and honestly, if the Bible itself is any indication, perhaps Jesus Christ/Yeshua himself. It's no secret that Catholicism and Christianity in general are large-scale conspiracies designed to cover up the truth of Christ's teachings. Just ask yourself why the Catholic Church was burning "heretical documents" for hundreds of years.

I should also mention I came to another fascinating conclusion while researching all of this: Enlil is the God of the four winds, he seems to be more powerful than Enki. YVHV is the Biblical name of God, each letter corresponds to the first letter of a name of a direction of the wind, North, South, East and West. So I figure, Enlil must have represented YVHV. Zeus was also the god of the winds and the most powerful in the pantheon of Greek/Roman gods... Christianity is just a fusion of ancient pagan religions and Judaism, under one God. It was a political machine created by the Romans. Real "Christianity" died shortly after Christ did... I just find it interesting that Jehovah/Yahweh/YVHV may actually correspond to the pagan god Zeus. Very funny.
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Old 05-04-2009, 01:42 AM   #2
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I could mention that the Roman Zeus is Jove, which, in its Latin pronunciation ("Yo-weh"), is suspiciously similar to "Yahweh."

The Church Fathers were not always opposed to the idea that Zeus was the same as the Old Testament God, either. Justin Martyr was certainly of the opinion when he wrote, "For from what other source, if not from his reading the writings of the prophets, could Plato have derived the information he gives us, that Jupiter drives a winged chariot in heaven?" And Clement of Alexandria in his Stromata declares, "the same God that furnished both the Covenants was the giver of Greek philosophy to the Greeks."

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Old 05-04-2009, 04:36 AM   #3
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Lucifer was the first light bringer, he defied God by presenting a form of consciousness to man that is separate from God.

We are all within that form of consciousness as an agreement to follow Lucifer. We are metaphorically, 'fallen angel's' but angels none-the less, hence the effort by organized religion to divorce us from our own divinity.

Lucifer divorced us from innocence and a God-given form of consciousness. It is a natural thing. Luciferians are leading this world and will be gone when we become conscious of higher forms of light. The current light is an immensely slow vibration which takes forever to travel across cosmic distances compared to the higher dimensions... Lucifer is a fallen angel in that he presented a lower vibration of light and we bought into it (physicality).

Could go on and on... probably shouldn't.
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Old 05-04-2009, 04:55 AM   #4
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Don't stray form the topic guys... I just made a point that I want MC to address. Lucifer is a metaphor for this form of consciousness, this physicality. We are divine beings who have 'followed Lucifer' so to speak to a lower level of dimensions and we've been somewhat trapped here for quite a while. The Bible and all illuminated religious texts are talking about the same thing... you can free yourself from Lucifer (this physical existence) or you can carry on in 'hell'.

There is no shortage of pain and suffering, or pleasure on this planet to trap us into 'believing' Lucifer. This all started a very long time ago hence the bullshit Adam and Eve story that throws so many people off the story to begin with.

Does this make sense?
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Old 05-04-2009, 05:13 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by metacomet View Post
Don't stray form the topic guys... I just made a point that I want MC to address. Lucifer is a metaphor for this form of consciousness, this physicality. We are divine beings who have 'followed Lucifer' so to speak to a lower level of dimensions and we've been somewhat trapped here for quite a while. The Bible and all illuminated religious texts are talking about the same thing... you can free yourself from Lucifer (this physical existence) or you can carry on in 'hell'.

There is no shortage of pain and suffering, or pleasure on this planet to trap us into 'believing' Lucifer. This all started a very long time ago hence the bullshit Adam and Eve story that throws so many people off the story to begin with.

Does this make sense?
I understand what you are saying, but as I indicated in my original post, Lucifer only fits the description you have given of him according to Christian mythology. Originally Lucifer was never a defiant spirit and was in fact a Roman deity, in league with other Roman deities and not considered evil. It was only after the creation of the Catholic Church that Lucifer was demonized. Also, Christ refers to himself as "the morning star" which translates directly into the word "Lucifer" in the original texts. Why is this? Why does the original text in the Bible often refer to Lucifer in a positive light, and yet when these sayings are translated into English there are only selective references to "the morning" or something like that? Lucifer is never mentioned except in one part of the Bible, however in the original texts the word "Lucifer" appears far more often, including twice to describe Jesus Christ himself.

His appearance as a fallen angel and a symbol of juvenile defiance exists only inside of fiction. One fiction might certainly be no greater than another, but I would love to see where the idea that Lucifer is Satan originated in some kind of authentic format. Just because the original founding fathers of the Catholic Church decided that Lucifer represented evil hardly gives the idea an heir of legitimacy (it in fact does a great deal to discredit it, if you ask me).

miracles, I have reported your post already. You will not derail this thread.
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Old 05-04-2009, 05:28 AM   #6
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Please stay ON TOPIC! If you have a problem with another member, take it to PM or we have a chat room where you can go and have it out.

Address the points in the OP without resorting to insults and tit for tat posts.

Thanks heaps.
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Old 05-04-2009, 01:16 PM   #7
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How Lucifer became Identified with Satan

From my OP, a while back -

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I propose that;

1) Lucifer was never originally mentioned in Hebrew scriptures, specifically in the passages from Isaiah - knowing as we do that it referred to a Babylonian King, not a Roman god, I propose that the name of the King who reigned during the time of Isaiah's prophetic mission (if there was such a man, and the book is not simply named for an imaginary person) was originally mentioned as the one fallen from Heaven by the sin of pride. Thus, "Lucifer" is a latter interpolation entirely - by the Roman Catholic Church.

2) Lucifer was an old pre-Empire (Republican) Roman god of Light, knowlege, wisdom, enlightenment and the arts/sciences as represented by the Morning Star, the male Venus - thus he was also a god of Love. During the post-Republican Empire times, his following dwindled into a cult as other cultures were assimilated, ensuring lesser deity status amongst the populus; but nonetheless remained hugely influential amongst the Roman political and religious elite.

3) The Luciferian cult was hugely influential on the pre and post-Christian Gnostic movement. Pre-Christian Gnosticism basically arose from Luciferian cultism, as well as from incorporated elements of philosophies, myth and religious movements from the entire Mediterranean region (Rome, Greece, Palestine etc), meaning the Essenes, Zoroastrians, Pagan mystery cultists and Plato, Socrates and the rest. And that this bring us to...

4) The proto Roman Catholic Church considered Lucifer the enemy of their God (who was to be the only GOD-of-everything, including Love) and wilfully but falsely identified him with Satan (who is the only supposed Adversary of Yahweh mentioned in the original Hebrew scriptures) precisely because as a god of Light, Love, Art/Sciences etc. his portfolio and wordly influence directly threatened the hegemony of power the syncretic Christian God, Jesus Christ, was to hold over all things - and even more specifically, because Luciferian thought was the main force behind the hated Gnosticism that rivaled Roman Christian theology. Another reason was that Luciferian cultism and Gnosticism were opposed to Hellenic ideology, culture and thought - and much of Roman Catholic Christian religion is basically Hellenism in disguise.

5) Lucifer was a god, but Satan allegedly an angel - to reconcile the discrepency the Church buried knowlege of the cult of Lucifer following the purges of Paganism throughout Rome in the 4th century, and it has only resurfaced recently in fact that Lucifer was a Roman god - previously, between the 4th/5th centuries and the 20th century it was a secret known only to a few, in secret societies and the like. How can a god be also an angel (fallen or otherwise) if there is only one GOD? It makes no sense - but then it wasn't supposed to, only to be believed by masses kept in dogmatic ignorance by the Church.

6) The reinforcements of this Lucifer-as-Satan myth came in the Middle ages mainly, with legends, poems and stories about the Fall and Lucifer/Satan's casting out of Heaven, like Paradise Lost and others. It has stuck in the popular psyche like strong glue, and the Church (despite knowing the lie it was based on) was well-happy as always to offer concrete bullcrap to the mass, sinful unwashed that energized their fear of and devotion to GOD at the expense of enemies that representativlely threatened to enlighten or free them - symbolized in the combined entity of the Devil whose two natures were supposedly one of Lucifer and the other of Satan.

7) Thus, in summary - by deceptive intent or translation error, the word "Lucifer" was interpolated into the Hebrew scriptures that would become the Old Testament at the behest of Roman Churchmen sometime in the 4th century. This was because they knew the cult of Lucifer was so powerful that it's grip on the Roman religious and political elite had to be broken if Hellenic/Pauline Christianity (as opposed to Gnostic) was to triumph and Rome be brought under the thumb of the religion of Christ. Thus, with Satan (an angel) already identified as the Adversay of the Lord, Lucifer was brought deliberately into identification with him (Satan) and all the attrributes and powers of Lucifer (light, love, enlightenment, arts/sciences etc) given to Jesus Christ (see the New Testament, where Jesus is identified as the Morning Star). So, over time, Satan and Lucifer would come to be viewed as different names for the same being - even though, ridiculously, one was a deity and the other wasn't.

Bottom line is; Lucifer was a Roman deity and the one that gave birth to Gnosticism - this is the main reason he came to be identified as the same being who was the enemy or adversary of GOD, meaning the Abrahamic god.
MC,

You have a lot right in your OP, but you've made the common error of mixing up the intravenous theological concepts of Father Zeus with Yahweh;

The first, Zeus, is a Hellenic contraption originating as a cult on Crete which virally infected Greek semi-matrichate culture during the advance of Patriarchy, eventually combining with Egyptian mystery religion to become Zeus-Amon, the quintessential All-knowing All-powerful Father God and forerunner of the Christian god.

The second, Yahweh, is a mystical experience brought on by realization of transcendental fear; that is, fear of the Higher Intelligence, fear of G-d. It is a literal subjective phenomena. I've had it myself, and explained it before on here. Without understanding this, you cannot get past the concept of G-d as deity and non-being at once, and you cannot ever understand Lucifer, the signification of enlightenment, or tetragrammaton.

You've mixed the two up, as early Christians did, with the myth of Enlil and Enki - attributing the characteristics of the Sumerian brother deities with Zeus and Yahweh. But that's okay, as you advance in knowlege, you'll figure it out - I have confidence, as I know you're smart enough and on the right path as it is.

best,
Z1
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Old 05-04-2009, 02:26 PM   #8
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Thanks for your input Zero, however I don't believe I've mixed anything up. As with all concepts that appear separate, there is a point where two becomes one - where all gods eventually overlap as the same energetic force. Enlil/Enki were two very early, unadvanced versions of the same idea.
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Old 05-04-2009, 02:40 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by michael christopher View Post
Thanks for your input Zero, however I don't believe I've mixed anything up. As with all concepts that appear separate, there is a point where two becomes one - where all gods eventually overlap as the same energetic force. Enlil/Enki were two very early, unadvanced versions of the same idea.
No problem, a lot of this kind of research is elbows-and-asses, stab in the dark kind of thing, I understand. It's not like there's any affirmation or verification available, right? Wish you all the best with your studies.
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Old 05-04-2009, 03:17 PM   #10
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No problem, a lot of this kind of research is elbows-and-asses, stab in the dark kind of thing, I understand. It's not like there's any affirmation or verification available, right? Wish you all the best with your studies.
Yeah, precisely, I think a lot of it is about creativity since so much of this is just window dressing. It's about finding an archetypal set-up that makes sense to the individual and that helps him/her to cope with the world in the best way possible.

I mean, who is gonna prove that Zeus ever existed in the first place? No one can prove any of this. These worldviews are just crystalizations of individuals, like all of them are... if anything, they explain how the individual thinks and operates, rather than how the world operates. I don't know if there really is just one way to explain all of that.
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