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Old 25-02-2009, 03:45 PM   #1
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Default ISLAM - ask your questions

hello, and peace be on you all.

im a big time fan of david icke, and yep, im a muslim. and whats more i know enough to talk about islam and "conspiracy" theories and all kinds of funky stuff.

so if you have any questions, feel free, ill answer using as many "islamic" sources as i can, you would be suprised at how much you guys dont know.
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Old 25-02-2009, 04:59 PM   #2
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Hi mr vs.

Who or what are the Jinn?
What does Islam have to say about other religions?
What does Islam have to say about committing acts of violence?

Thanks.

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Old 25-02-2009, 05:07 PM   #3
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hello bro, heres a question.

what does islam think of sikhs?
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Old 25-02-2009, 06:56 PM   #4
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hiya size_of_light and synergy777, ive been a LONG TIME stalker of this site so feel like i know u all already for filthy hellbound western devil infidels you guys are alright lol

SOL:

Jinns are a manner of being that exist on earth, somehow in the same space as us, but not interacting with us generally. what we call "shaytaan" or "iblees" (they are interchangeable), what the bible calles "the devil", WASNT a fallen angel, he was a JINN who after thousands of years of devotion to god (according to the quran) was elevated to a status above that of regular angels, however he refused to bow to adam, and was cast out of heaven.

the quran says the following:

[18.50] And when We said to the angels: Make obeisance to Adam; they made obeisance but Iblis (did it not). He was of the jinn, so he transgressed the commandment of his Lord. What! would you then take him and his offspring for friends rather than Me, and they are your enemies? Evil is (this) change for the unjust.

its actually a really big topic, the jinn. but yeah, they can shapeshift.

to sum up the difference between jinn and men, Jinn were made from FIRE while man (adam) was made from CLAY

so when allah/god/flying spaghetti monster created adam, he instructed all angels and iblis to prostrate before adam, iblis said "hold up buddy, why shud i bow before him, this dudes made from dirt im from fire", which caused him to be cast out.

does that answer ur question? sorry its a pretty big thing to tackle in 1 post lol.

Q:What does Islam have to say about other religions?

loaded question

the quran was revealed throughout the prophets life, when certain events happened. some of the passages were revealed just before a battle, which the prophet had to win or be annhialated. if taken outta context (the context being god saying dont negotiate, you have to fight and win), it gives the impression that islam is saying kill everyone wherever u see em, subjugate all, wipe em out, holy war and so on.

in truth, thats total bullcrap spread by the saudi wahabbi propaganda machine, whose fruits we can all see in todays taleban and other militant organisations.

the actual view on other religions was summed up by the fourth islamic caliph, ali, where he said to his friend:

Remember, Maalik, (his friend who he wrote this letter to) that amongst your subjects there are two kinds of people: those who have the same religion as you have; they are brothers to you, and those who have religions other than that of yours, they are human beings like you.

see the whole letter here


Q:What does Islam have to say about committing acts of violence?


the thing is, islam isnt a pacifist religion. yeah we are taught to have patience, and stay calm, and we are never allowed to start an OFFENSIVE war, but when you HAVE to resort to violence, then how can that be a sin?

i think malcolm X said it pretty well, although his views are a little extreme and slanted towards the NOI:

"There is nothing in our book, the Koran, that teaches us to suffer peacefully. Our religion teaches us to be intelligent. Be peaceful, be courteous, obey the law, respect everyone; but if someone puts his hand on you, send him to the cemetery. That’s a good religion."
"Message to the Grass Roots," speech, Nov. 1963, Detroit (published in Malcolm X Speaks, ch. 1, 1965).

synergy777:

they are not ahle kitaab (people of the book, i.e. people who prophets from adam to mohammed were sent to guide), so muslims cannot intermarry with them, but they should be respected for their beliefs as fellow humans (see my previous quote from the fourth caliph ali).

however in their book there does seem to be passages or bits and pieces of islamic text. there is a theory by some that guru nannak was actually a shiite muslim, or sufi, who visited the kaaba during his life.

i hope these answer your questions?
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Old 25-02-2009, 07:10 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by islamvslizards View Post
hiya size_of_light and synergy777, ive been a LONG TIME stalker of this site so feel like i know u all already for filthy hellbound western devil infidels you guys are alright lol

SOL:

Jinns are a manner of being that exist on earth, somehow in the same space as us, but not interacting with us generally. what we call "shaytaan" or "iblees" (they are interchangeable), what the bible calles "the devil", WASNT a fallen angel, he was a JINN who after thousands of years of devotion to god (according to the quran) was elevated to a status above that of regular angels, however he refused to bow to adam, and was cast out of heaven.

the quran says the following:

[18.50] And when We said to the angels: Make obeisance to Adam; they made obeisance but Iblis (did it not). He was of the jinn, so he transgressed the commandment of his Lord. What! would you then take him and his offspring for friends rather than Me, and they are your enemies? Evil is (this) change for the unjust.

its actually a really big topic, the jinn. but yeah, they can shapeshift.

to sum up the difference between jinn and men, Jinn were made from FIRE while man (adam) was made from CLAY

so when allah/god/flying spaghetti monster created adam, he instructed all angels and iblis to prostrate before adam, iblis said "hold up buddy, why shud i bow before him, this dudes made from dirt im from fire", which caused him to be cast out.

does that answer ur question? sorry its a pretty big thing to tackle in 1 post lol.

Q:What does Islam have to say about other religions?

loaded question

the quran was revealed throughout the prophets life, when certain events happened. some of the passages were revealed just before a battle, which the prophet had to win or be annhialated. if taken outta context (the context being god saying dont negotiate, you have to fight and win), it gives the impression that islam is saying kill everyone wherever u see em, subjugate all, wipe em out, holy war and so on.

in truth, thats total bullcrap spread by the saudi wahabbi propaganda machine, whose fruits we can all see in todays taleban and other militant organisations.

the actual view on other religions was summed up by the fourth islamic caliph, ali, where he said to his friend:

Remember, Maalik, (his friend who he wrote this letter to) that amongst your subjects there are two kinds of people: those who have the same religion as you have; they are brothers to you, and those who have religions other than that of yours, they are human beings like you.

see the whole letter here


Q:What does Islam have to say about committing acts of violence?


the thing is, islam isnt a pacifist religion. yeah we are taught to have patience, and stay calm, and we are never allowed to start an OFFENSIVE war, but when you HAVE to resort to violence, then how can that be a sin?

i think malcolm X said it pretty well, although his views are a little extreme and slanted towards the NOI:

"There is nothing in our book, the Koran, that teaches us to suffer peacefully. Our religion teaches us to be intelligent. Be peaceful, be courteous, obey the law, respect everyone; but if someone puts his hand on you, send him to the cemetery. That’s a good religion."
"Message to the Grass Roots," speech, Nov. 1963, Detroit (published in Malcolm X Speaks, ch. 1, 1965).

synergy777:

they are not ahle kitaab (people of the book, i.e. people who prophets from adam to mohammed were sent to guide), so muslims cannot intermarry with them, but they should be respected for their beliefs as fellow humans (see my previous quote from the fourth caliph ali).

however in their book there does seem to be passages or bits and pieces of islamic text. there is a theory by some that guru nannak was actually a shiite muslim, or sufi, who visited the kaaba during his life.


i hope these answer your questions?
i am a sikh, and there are some islamic influences in sikhism. the mool mantra from sikhism and the bismiallah from islam have similar structure/message. sikhism itself draws from hinduism, buddhism and islam.

obviously you know about the history between the islamic mughal empires and india, the conflict/occupation gave birth to sikhism.

i as a sikh, is encouraged to read and understand all religions. the word sikh is sanskrit for disciple/seeker of truth.

i know about islam, and have muslim friends. i too understand the role of the wahabbis's etc.

nice having you onboard bro, welcome.
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Old 25-02-2009, 07:29 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by islamvslizards View Post
hello, and peace be on you all.

im a big time fan of david icke, and yep, im a muslim. and whats more i know enough to talk about islam and "conspiracy" theories and all kinds of funky stuff.

so if you have any questions, feel free, ill answer using as many "islamic" sources as i can, you would be suprised at how much you guys dont know.
Saalam aleycum,

Give me a list of the principal and most important Laws of Islam, including sources. I am not interested in details, only accuracy.
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Old 25-02-2009, 07:34 PM   #7
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^^ wa alaikum as salam

er bro, why dont you give me a list of the principal and most important Laws in the british legal system in a single post first, then ill do one for islam lol.

sure you dont wanna be a bit more specific?
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Old 25-02-2009, 07:35 PM   #8
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i am a sikh, and there are some islamic influences in sikhism. the mool mantra from sikhism and the bismiallah from islam have similar structure/message. sikhism itself draws from hinduism, buddhism and islam.

obviously you know about the history between the islamic mughal empires and india, the conflict/occupation gave birth to sikhism.

i as a sikh, is encouraged to read and understand all religions. the word sikh is sanskrit for disciple/seeker of truth.

i know about islam, and have muslim friends. i too understand the role of the wahabbis's etc.

nice having you onboard bro, welcome.
ah excellent, thanks for the welcome! and sasri akkaar!

yeah i have loads of sikh friends too, you guys are great. my mates tried teaching me gadka but i suck at it, i do know about the gurus and the living gurus, and i respect your way of life and phiolosophy. the 5 Ks and everything.
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Old 25-02-2009, 07:45 PM   #9
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^^ wa alaikum as salam

er bro, why dont you give me a list of the principal and most important Laws in the british legal system in a single post first, then ill do one for islam lol.

sure you dont wanna be a bit more specific?
If a Sufi Leader emerged in the west to kick the ass of all the Sunnis and Shias, what would be left of Islamic Law? What would be the absolute basic necessary social medium to continue being Muslims?
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Old 25-02-2009, 07:53 PM   #10
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does this answer ur question (all taken from the quran)



[2.2] This Book, there is no doubt in it, is a guide to those who guard (against evil).
[2.3] Those who believe in the unseen and keep up prayer and spend out of what We have given them.
[2.4] And who believe in that which has been revealed to you and that which was revealed before you and they are sure of the hereafter.
[2.5] These are on a right course from their Lord and these it is that shall be successful.



[2.62] Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve.



[2.256] There is no compulsion in religion; truly the right way has become clearly distinct from error; therefore, whoever disbelieves in the Shaitan and believes in Allah he indeed has laid hold on the firmest handle, which shall not break off, and Allah is Hearing, Knowing.



[109.1] Say: O unbelievers!
[109.2] I do not serve that which you serve,
[109.3] Nor do you serve Him Whom I serve:
[109.4] Nor am I going to serve that which you serve,
[109.5] Nor are you going to serve Him Whom I serve:
[109.6] You shall have your religion and I shall have my religion.



[2.263] Kind speech and forgiveness is better than charity followed by injury; and Allah is Self-sufficient, Forbearing.
[2.264] O you who believe! do not make your charity worthless by reproach and injury, like him who spends his property to be seen of men and does not believe in Allah and the last day; so his parable is as the parable of a smooth rock with earth upon it, then a heavy rain falls upon it, so it leaves it bare; they shall not be able to gain anything of what they have earned; and Allah does not guide the unbelieving people.



[4.114] There is no good in most of their secret counsels except (in his) who enjoins charity or goodness or reconciliation between people; and whoever does this seeking Allah's pleasure, We will give him a mighty reward.



is that enough?
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Old 25-02-2009, 08:57 PM   #11
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If the Quraan, as spoken by an angel, is supposed to be the final and perfect word of God, why is it insufficient to guide Muslim life and practices?
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Old 25-02-2009, 09:03 PM   #12
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because it isnt the sole source of guidance.

The Messenger of Allah - may Allah bestow peace and benedictions upon him and his Progeny - said: "Verily, I am leaving behind two precious things (thaqalayn) among you: the Book of God and my kindred (`itrah), my household (Ahl al­Bayt), for indeed, the two will never separate until they come back to me by the Pond (of al­Kawthar on the Judgement's Day)."

website that discusses the hadith

the majority of the worlds muslims forget the second half of the prophets saying (follow his ahlebeyt), leading to the cock up of a religion most people follow to this day.

a good film worth watching if you have the time is the arrivals. its the muslim stance on the global elite and powers that be etc.

well worth a look.

the arrivals:
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Old 25-02-2009, 09:15 PM   #13
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If God wanted people to follow hadith why aren't the teachings in the hadith revealed in the Quraan? Why is God's instruction not 'the sole source of guidance'? Why should anyone rely on the words and deed of human beings (or angels)?
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Old 25-02-2009, 09:24 PM   #14
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This by way of contrast. While there are innumerable great Christian writers and philosophers who have no doubt shed light on the various mysteries of the faith, most Christians will think that the Gospels themselves are sufficient as representative of Christ's message (and hence, of God's message of Grace); so, they don't go around reading Augustine or Aquinus.

Some Muslims, however, insist on the authority of hadith and/or sunnah in addition to the revealed word of God. And, what's more, those who adhere only to the teaching of the Quraan itself, so called Quraanites, seem to be held in low regard.
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Old 25-02-2009, 09:25 PM   #15
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Hey "islamvslizards,"

What is your point of view on David's writing about organised religion? Which aspects of David's work do you agree with, and disagree with? (If any.)
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Old 25-02-2009, 09:29 PM   #16
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hello, and peace be on you all.

im a big time fan of david icke, and yep, im a muslim. and whats more i know enough to talk about islam and "conspiracy" theories and all kinds of funky stuff.

so if you have any questions, feel free, ill answer using as many "islamic" sources as i can, you would be suprised at how much you guys dont know.
Is it true that the punishment for apostasy in islam is death?
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Old 26-02-2009, 08:56 AM   #17
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If God wanted people to follow hadith why aren't the teachings in the hadith revealed in the Quraan? Why is God's instruction not 'the sole source of guidance'? Why should anyone rely on the words and deed of human beings (or angels)?
gods instruction was twofold. what would have been the point of revealing a book on its own without sending a guide (or guides) who could understand the qurans literal and allegorical meanings (and the difference between them), and those with the ability to understand it fully (ie the prophets ahlebeyt).

hadith are not separate from the quran, they are ALL based on the quran. the first criteria for any hadith is that it must agree with what the quran says, for example if the quran says "the sky is blue" and a hadith says "the sky is purple", since the hadith goes against the quran the hadith is rejected.

the sunni sect, which is the majority of muslims, have certain "sahih" or infallible books of hadith, bukhari, muslim etc etc. theyre full of all kinds of bullshit. but since most muslims blindly follow the books without a second thought thats what causes the mess we see today.

finally, the "ahlebeyt" were not seen as regular human beings. they were seen as perfect embodiments of what the quran teaches, having been taught directly by the prophet, and the best people to follow since they spent all their time in the prophets household, and learnt more than any companion.

so when it comes to things like sharia - it is actually only the ahlebeyt who can do things like cutting hands off etc, those things shouldnt apply to this day and age since we are not as jood judges or as fair as they were. we are actually instructed to follow the rules of the country we live in.

but again, the majority of muslims dont know this. thank you misinformation and wahabbi (read: america backed) propaganda from saudi arabia
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Old 26-02-2009, 09:11 AM   #18
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This by way of contrast. While there are innumerable great Christian writers and philosophers who have no doubt shed light on the various mysteries of the faith, most Christians will think that the Gospels themselves are sufficient as representative of Christ's message (and hence, of God's message of Grace); so, they don't go around reading Augustine or Aquinus.

Some Muslims, however, insist on the authority of hadith and/or sunnah in addition to the revealed word of God. And, what's more, those who adhere only to the teaching of the Quraan itself, so called Quraanites, seem to be held in low regard.
you have hit the nail squarely on the head. SOME muslims. unfortunately "some" is now "almost all". there is a core of people who arent like that tho. watch "the arrivals". it will be worth your time.

as for the quraanites, those guys are utter muppets. they believe that every single ayat in the quran is literal no matter what, so if it says something like "god has got the whole world in his hands" it must mean god has two hands and he is holding up the world in them. allegory is a closed book to them, apparantely.

people like the taleban and all these militant little gayboys are more or less quranists. they have taken the quran and removed the guides and replaced them with their own mad mullahs.
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Old 26-02-2009, 09:17 AM   #19
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Hey "islamvslizards,"

What is your point of view on David's writing about organised religion? Which aspects of David's work do you agree with, and disagree with? (If any.)
i agree with quite a lot actually. i believe that pretty much all religions have been infiltrated and distorted beyond recognition. i also believe in the global agenda, 13 bloodlines, sinister plans, RFID chips, im having trouble with the whole shapeshifting lizards thing tho, its POSSIBLE that they could be jinns, but jinns can be good or bad, they will end up in the same heaven and hell as the rest of us, so how can some enter heaven if they are all evil blood drinking monsters?
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Old 26-02-2009, 09:20 AM   #20
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Is it true that the punishment for apostasy in islam is death?
another loaded question lol

firstly remember what i said earlier about who can administer that punishment. its not meant to be some mullah in a cave who chooses who lives and who dies.

secondly, its a bit more complicated than that. theres other criteria to take into considerattion first

finally, yeah, one of the ultimate punishments for apostacy is death. if the other criteria are fulfilled.
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