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Old 15-05-2007, 02:12 AM   #1
adramelech
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Default The Evolution of Evil

Consider this another open-ended forum "thought experiment" in selected works and quotations. A companion piece to my previous thread, "The Predator of Man", located here. Offer your take on the information.



"If the dinosaurs had not all been mysteriously extinguished some sixty-five million years ago, would the saurornithoides have continued to evolve into increasingly intelligent forms?"

- Carl Sagan




"Sagan focuses on our dreams in relation to the brain. He notes what most of us know--that our dreamworld is full of magic, ritual, passion, and agression. The dreamworld is still the realm of our Limbic and Reptilian brains--and especially of the Reptilian Complex. Sagan puts it poetically: "the dragons can be heard, hissing and rasping, and the dinosaurs thunder still." [Ibid, 157.]

Sagan does not believe the Neocortex is much involved in our dreams. There is little evidence of "skepticism and reason" in our dreams. Rather he considers that our dream state allows the Reptilian Complex to fantasize a reality that suggests *it* is still in control.

As for control, Sagan draws upon the Platonic metaphor about the human soul as an uneasy charioteer drawn by two horses in different directions. He considers this metaphor as remarkably similar to our "neural chassis." The two horses correspond to our Reptilian Complex and Limbic System, and the charioteer to our Neocortex--which is barely in control."

http://www.bizcharts.com/stoa_del_so...onscious5.html





Dinosaurs evolved quickly and there was a spate of dinosaur evolution just prior to their final decline. Bakker says that the stenonychosaurs were evolving quickly in many of their adaptive compartments and with their bulky pair of mid-brain lobes they were probably every bit as endowed as the Late Cretaceous mammals.

Fossil dinosaurs have been found with quite remarkably large brains... for dinosaurs. One authority says that triceratops had a brain weighing a kilogram, a fair size compared with our 1.5 kilograms, though its body weight was 9000 kg compared with our 70 kg. Struthiomimus had a brain to body ratio similar to that of a modern day ostrich—1:1000. And, though brain size is obviously a general measure of intelligence, there is no way of telling whether the brain of an extinct class of animals functioned in quite the same way as those of animals with which we are familiar. We cannot be certain that modern creatures with larger brains are more intelligent than the smaller brained dinosaurs. A higher metabolic rate, more active brains, faster synapses, sharper nerve impulses could all contribute to greater efficiency of the brain even though it were smaller than ours.

Of course, size is presumably directly related to memory capacity but, for humans, much of the brain seems redundant, evolution looks to have overshot—a result, perhaps, of sexual selection or a saltagen in a high quantum state. It might not have done for dinosaurs whose memory capacity could have been better adjusted to the capabilities of their brains overall.

Then again the nature of their intelligence might have differed from ours. Many cold-blooded animals do very well in the world of the mammals by using abilities other than intelligence. In South America, farmers use marine toads to suppress mice and rats which otherwise would make a feast of their crops and seeds. A ponderous toad successfully preying on wily rats? Yet they do. The toads, weighing five pounds wait with infinite patience for the cleverer victim to traverse its usual path, it pounces and the rat is gulped whole into the frog"s maw, rendered insensible by poisonous saliva then swallowed. The abilities of dinosaurs might also have developed rather differently from mammals.
Explosive Evolution

But even if dinosaur and mammalian evolution were truly parallel and dinosaurs had to evolve big brains to become intelligent, fast evolution could have done it in a relatively short time. You do not have to believe me. Witness this remarkable paragraph by Adrian Desmond:
The most intriguing Late Cretaceous inhabitants were the intelligent mimics unearthed in recent years—wide eyed ostrich dinosaurs, and dromaeosaurids like deinonychus and the saurornithoides with stereo-vision functionally mated to opposable thumbs. These dinosaurs, capable of more skilful behavioral feats than any other land animal hitherto, were separated from other dinosaurs by a gulf comparable to that dividing men from cows: the disparity in brain size is staggering. The potential in dromaeosaurs and coelurosaurs for an explosive evolution as the Tertiary dawned cannot be doubted—who knows what new peaks the sophisticated "bird-mimics" would have attained had they survived into the "Age of Mammals". Yet apparently not a breeding population of these beautiful, alert dinosaurs outlived the comparatively cumbersome and dim-witted giants.

Desmond almost proposes that the dinosaurs became intelligent but he pulls up at the final hurdle.

Yes the explosive evolution did occur. Mankind has evolved from being a user of crude rock tools to our present level of civilization in just one million years. It must be possible that these alert creatures did the same. How would that have looked in the fossil record, especially bearing in mind that the chosen habitat of these dinosaurs made their remains scarce, just as remains of early man are scarce and, of modern chimpanzees, non-existent?

http://web.ukonline.co.uk/michael.ma...00/wls143.html






"What would have happened if the asteroid that supposedly hit the Earth at the end of the Cretaceous period (see Cretaceous-Tertiary Boundary), 65 million years ago, had missed? One possibility is that the dinosaurs would not have become extinct, advanced mammals would subsequently not have appeared, and some of the descendants of dinosaurs might have evolved to become intelligent in our place.

Was Troodon the last word on dinosaur intelligence or are there fossils of even smarter species waiting to be found? Visit this website for a cogently argued case that some dinosaurs may have got to be really brainy – to the point of hominid intelligence. We've no evidence for this, of course, but it isn't such an outrageous hypothesis. At least, it's an interesting point when thinking about alternative evolutionary scenarios. The dinosaurs were around for a very long time – from about 225 to 65 million years ago. Consider how far mammals have progressed since the end of the Cretaceous (a period less than half as long): from creeping around in trees to launching Jupiter probes! Consider how rapidly humanoid intelligence has advanced in the past 3 million years.

Dinosaurs certainly had time to grow big brains and even develop a culture and civilization. Did they? Probably not, but it isn't out of the question. After all, what clues will be left to our own civilization and technology after 65 million years of erosion and earth movements?"

http://www.daviddarling.info/encyclo...aurintell.html






"Dr Brian Stableford is a biology graduate and lecturer in sociology at the University of Reading, England, but is better known as a writer of science fiction. He writes in The Science in Science Fiction that:
...certain difficulties stand in the way of the ever popular lizard-men who figure so frequently as science fictional villains. Reptiles, having no internal temperature control, are rather limited in the amount of brain activity they can indulge in...

That may be true of lizard-men but not of dinosaur-men or dinosauroids, to use the word coined by Dale Russell of the National Museum of Natural Sciences in Ottawa, Canada. Dinosauroids are intelligent creatures evolved from dinosaurs, and because dinosaurs had a physiology superior to lizards and in many ways superior to mammals, Dr Stableford's complaint does not hold water. Our anthroposaur and Russell's dinosauroid are Dr Stableford's lizard-men precisely because they are all lizard-men could be.

Anthroposaur is the better term: it is more descriptive than Russell's word, and Russell's conception of dinosaur evolution was vastly different from that considered here. Russell imagined how dinosaurs might have evolved had they survived the Cretaceous-Tertiary (K-T) extinction and remained alive until today. They didn't survive, so they couldn't evolve. But the anthroposaurs could have evolved before the K-T catastrophe, as we shall see.

Stableford informally lists the characteristics of an intelligent organism.
If human beings did not walk upright, freeing their forelimbs to develop hands instead of paws, they could not have developed the kind of intelligence they have. Similarly intelligent beings must be sociable, because intelligence arises out of the need to communicate. The fact that most mammals and birds show a degree of intelligence not seen in reptiles is connected with the fact that they generally have more complicated social relationships, especially in connection with the rearing of young. The more sociable animals are, and the more able they are to interfere with and transform their environment, the more intelligent they become.

Stableford's characteristics tally respectably with those deduced from our study of mankind's emergence.

The ones which we have some chance of assessing rationally 65 million years after the death of the dinosaurs other than warm-bloodedness, are: intelligent terrestrial animals are bipedal, have an erect stance; are equipped with grasping hands having sensitive fingers and opposable thumbs; are equipped with binocular vision; own a large brain; are subject to social and parental guidance in childhood; are able to speak; are aggressive.

How do the dinosaurs measure up?"

http://www.adelphiasophism.com/awwls/00/wls130.html





"If the dinosaurs had had a space program, they would not be extinct." - - Carl Sagan
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"There are very probably alien civilizations that are superhuman, to the point of being god-like in ways that exceed anything a theologian could possibly imagine.
Their technical achievements would seem as supernatural to us as ours would seem to a Dark Age peasant transported to the twenty-first century"

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Old 15-05-2007, 04:50 AM   #2
bigus_dickus
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this here is an interesting read:

Extinction

Chaos in the Cretaceous!


YOU'VE PROBABLY HEARD HOW DINOSAURS WENT EXTINCT: they were all killed one terrible day when a huge object from outer space—a comet or asteroid the size of at least 100,000 Superdomes—slammed into Earth around 65 million years ago. But this description is not quite right.

Yes, a meteorite did pack an enormous punch, but current research indicates that the extinction of dinosaurs is a much more complicated story. First of all, dinosaurs are not extinct. Birds are living dinosaurs—survivors of the turmoil that wiped out their relatives like T. rex. So what caused the chaos 65 million years ago? There's no doubt a comet or asteroid hit Earth around that time and no doubt the impact had deadly consequences for life on Earth. But other factors, including massive volcanic eruptions and changing sea levels may have also played a role in wiping out at least half of all species alive at the time.

Look closely: At extinct animals

A wide range of plants and animals, both on land and in the sea, went extinct 65 million years ago. The ferocious Tyrannosaurus rex was one of the last species of nonavian dinosaurs. The ancient mollusks known as ammonites disappeared quite suddenly 65 million years ago. The closest living relatives of ammonites include squid and the chambered nautilus.

Mass Extinction

Around 65 million years ago, something unusual happened on our planet—and we can see it in the fossil record. Fossils that are abundant in earlier rock layers are simply not present in later rock layers. A wide range of animals and plants suddenly died out, from tiny marine organisms to large dinosaurs.

Species go extinct all the time. Scientists estimate that at least 99.9 percent of all species of plants and animals that ever lived are now extinct. So the demise of dinosaurs like T. rex and Triceratops some 65 million years ago wouldn't be especially noteworthy—except for the fact that around 50 percent of all plants and animals alive at the same time also died out in what scientists call a mass extinction.


A Brief History of Earth

Mass extinctions—when at least half of all species die out in a relatively short time—have happened only a handful of times over the course of our planet's history. The largest mass extinction event occurred around 250 million years ago, when perhaps 95 percent of all species went extinct.

Top Five Extinctions

CAMBRIAN EXPLOSION:
Early life-forms began to flourish. (540 million years ago)

ORDOVICIAN-SILURIAN EXTINCTION:
Small marine organisms died out. (440 mya)

DEVONIAN EXTINCTION:
Many tropical marine species went extinct. (365 mya)

PERMIAN-TRIASSIC EXTINCTION:
The largest mass extinction event in Earth's history affected a range of species, including many vertebrates. (250 mya)

TRIASSIC-JURASSIC EXTINCTION:
The extinction of other vertebrate species on land allowed dinosaurs to flourish. (210 mya)

CRETACEOUS-TERTIARY EXTINCTION: (65.5 mya)

The Name Game

Scientists refer to the major extinction that wiped out nonavian dinosaurs as the K-T extinction, because it happened at the end of the Cretaceous period and the beginning of the Tertiary period. Why not C-T? Geologists use "K" as a shorthand for Cretaceous. "C" is shorthand for an earlier period, the Cambrian.

Dawn of a New Age

The extinction that occurred 65 million years ago wiped out some 50 percent of plants and animals. The event is so striking that it signals a major turning point in Earth's history, marking the end of the geologic period known as the Cretaceous and the beginning of the Tertiary period.

[...]

Figuring Out Feathers

Feathers turn out to be surprisingly complicated. First, there's the question of which animals have feathers. For centuries, people thought feathers were unique to birds. Now we know this isn't true. In the last several years, paleontologists have found feathers on various species of extinct dinosaurs. So when did feathers first appear? And how did they evolve? Scientists continue to investigate these questions.



Like all complex biological features, feathers evolved in stages. Fossil discoveries from Liaoning support this idea. Some of the Liaoning dinosaurs had very simple feathers, while others had more advanced ones, similar to those found on modern birds. The evolution of feathers dates back more than 150 million years.

Dinosaurs Survive!

NOT ALL DINOSAURS DIED OUT 65 million years ago. Avian dinosaurs—in other words, birds—survived and flourished. Scientists at the American Museum of Natural History estimate that there are more than 18,000 species of birds alive today. A variety of other species also survived on land, including frogs, snakes, lizards and mammals.

SURVIVORS



* ALLIGATORS & CROCODILES: These sizeable reptiles survived—even though other large reptiles did not.
* BIRDS: Birds are the only dinosaurs to survive the mass extinction event 65 million years ago.
* FROGS & SALAMANDERS: These seemingly delicate amphibians survived the extinction that wiped out larger animals.
* SNAKES & LIZARDS: These reptiles, distant relatives of dinosaurs, survived the extinction.
* MAMMALS: After the extinction, mammals came to dominate the land. An early relative of all primates, including humans, survived the extinction.
* SNAKES: Although a number of snake species died out around 65 million years ago, snakes as a group survived.
* TURTLES: Of the known species of turtles alive at the time of the dinosaurs, more than 80 percent survived.

Feathered Dinosaur

This ancient flying bird—an avian dinosaur—lived about 85 million years ago in what is now Kansas. Birds are living dinosaurs that survived the mass extinction event 65 million years ago.

Reptiles & Amphibians

Frogs survived the mass extinction, even though many are now endangered because of habitat destruction. Lizards and snakes, both distant relatives of dinosaurs, also survived.

Mini Mammal

The mammals alive at the time of the mass extinction event were typically quite small. This mammal was roughly the size of a modern opossum, one of its living relatives.

http://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/dinosaurs/extinction/

http://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/dino...a/feathers.php
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Old 15-05-2007, 05:10 AM   #3
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I have a question. Why didn't everything die out when these comets hit? Why only the larger mammals/animals/dinosaurs?
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Old 15-05-2007, 05:31 AM   #4
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I have a question. Why didn't everything die out when these comets hit? Why only the larger mammals/animals/dinosaurs?
Well I found this...

Quote:
Survivors
Global forest fires. Acid rain. Tsunamis. Skies dark for months or years with volcanic ash. How could anything have survived? Roughly half of all species on Earth died out 65 million years ago. What about the other half? How did they make it?

Scientists aren't sure. Some have suggested that animals that lived in burrows survived. Others argue that plants and animals with a higher tolerance of acid rain would have had a survival advantage. Still others reason that an animal's diet might have been a crucial factor: animals that did not depend on one food source but ate a varied diet—roots, seeds, insects, decaying plants or other animals—might have been able to make better use of available resources. Although we don't understand exactly why, a range of species—from birds to frogs to mammals—lived and flourished. All species alive today are descendants of these survivors.

Modern Life
The modern world is populated by descendants of species that survived the mass extinction 65 million years ago. The organisms pictured here represent some of the major groups that survived.
http://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/dino.../survivors.php
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Old 15-05-2007, 05:49 AM   #5
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Hmmm.. reading on from the paragraph 'Bipedal' here: http://www.adelphiasophism.com/awwls/00/wls130.html
It seems to me that our ancestors and the reppies ancestors could have been evolving at the same time (although aren't we told in school that dinosaurs and our ancestors weren't around at the same time? pah.. we're taught lots of crap so who knows?).

Which led me to another thought... the duality of our existence evolves at the same rate... eg, now we are more advanced spiritualy, so the reps are too but on the other end of the scale. 65 million years ago we were primitive and so were the dinasauroids. To allow us to experience both extremes equally they evolve together... after all we are creating this experience. It wouldn't be much of an expereince if the 'enemy' were still as they were 65 million years ago while we advanced.

I'm having trouble putting this into words but... as the outer is a reflection of our inner world, the knowledge we have of spirit and the extremes of evil and good are made manifest in the physical world. To really know evil we need the advanced reptilian forms. Whereas 65 million years ago our understanding of good and evil was limited and so was the physical manifestations of the two extremes. ie - primitive man vs dinasaurs. Today we have spiritual man vs reptilians. Crude example, hope someone's on my wavelength out there...lol..
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Old 15-05-2007, 05:51 AM   #6
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I have a question. Why didn't everything die out when these comets hit? Why only the larger mammals/animals/dinosaurs?
Because it was not a comet that killed the big dinosaurs. A slow collision between two planets 65 million years ago killed the dinosaurs. Before that event, Earth was a binary planet system, with a smaller planet in close orbit around a bigger water-covered planet. Due to tidal friction, the smaller planet eventually collapsed into the bigger planet. The smaller planet is Earth's core today. The smaller planet's crust was peeled off during this merging process between the two planets, and became today's continents.

It is easy to verify that the area of the continental crust will cover a sphere the size of the Earth’s core more or less exactly. The present continental crust covers 30% of the Earth’s surface. This means an area of about 153 million square kilometers. By wrapping around this area and forming a sphere we can calculate the radius of this sphere by taking the area and dividing it by four times Pi followed by the square root. We then get a radius of 3493 kilometers, and when comparing this to the radius of the Earth’s core which is 3486 kilometers we get a very good match.

The dinosaurs lived on the smaller planet. The much smaller gravity on that planet explains why the dinosaurs could be so big with weights over 100 tons. In today's gravity they would have been crushed under their own weight.
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Old 15-05-2007, 05:53 AM   #7
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what if the ...reptilians, are the birds?

omg!

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Old 15-05-2007, 08:45 AM   #8
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The smaller planet's crust was peeled off during this merging process between the two planets, and became today's continents.
The continental crust is different from the oceanic crust. That's not so surprising since the continental crust is from the smaller planet with different chemical composition. The granitic continental crust is lighter and much thicker than the thin and heavy basaltic oceanic crust.



Geologists have discovered that the continents once fit together to form one big continent called Pangea. That's only partly correct.



Are we really supposed to believe that the Earth had one big continent floating on one side of the planet? Is that what we would expect a planet to look like? Not likely. The continent did at one time fit together alright, not as a separate continent but as the entire crust of the smaller planet.

Pangea was the entire crust of a different planet that was peeled off when this smaller planet sank into the bigger oceanic sister planet to form Earth's heavy core.


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Old 15-05-2007, 12:51 PM   #9
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G'day Anders, I've never heard that before and I really like it. It is more plausible to me than a lot of other theories and covers a few other bases for me too. Have you got any links I can use to explore this a bit more? It looks like you have posted some photos but they haven't loaded at my end (could be my isp, it isn't the best). Any links to them? Cheers, h.

Quote:
what if the ...reptilians, are the birds?
Why not? They could have survived and evolved through them. We have owl symbolism, the pheonix, winged gods, angels, etc... The beauty of 'waking up' is that anything is possible and diffeerent realities can exist simultaneously... so what is right and what is not? There may be many explanations for the reppies and all of them true! It's a multi-dimensional world with more than one timeline. It's infinity!

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Old 15-05-2007, 12:52 PM   #10
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There are many takes on the K-T extinction as far as dinosaur evolution (and possible evolution) goes. Although this information is largely focused on the possibility of some advanced, non-avian dinosaurs surviving, which is most certainly not a far-fetched concept, there's also been a good deal of speculation in the area of potential dinosauroid-like avian evolutions. There is so much to discover out there in the field of archeology and so much the fossil record both can and cannot tell us. Even the past of the "unchanged crocodile" is a great mystery waiting to be found.


"The discovery of a six-foot-long, bipedal and toothless fossil in a museum basement suggests crocodile ancestors looked like some bird-like dinosaurs that lived millions of years later, scientists say.

The crocodile ancestor fossil, found in the basement of New York's American Museum of Natural History, is an example of how similar body types can evolve several times over."

http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/stories/s1556338.htm


On the old forum, I did a large post on bird-gods and how they are essentially intertwined with similar dinosauroid-like gods.

Hologram, I have quite a few thoughts on potential concurrent evolution between man and dinosaur and the rest of your post, but I have some business to take care of right now. Man came to be in his current position by mercilessly crushing another intelligent hominid species into extinction and his evolution and technology has been responsible for the extinction or near extinction of countless plants and animals. It appears that on Earth, there really is only room for "one". Who is to say that the same could not be said of any potential advanced dinosaur culture? More later.
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Old 15-05-2007, 01:01 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Anders Lindman View Post
The continental crust is different from the oceanic crust. That's not so surprising since the continental crust is from the smaller planet with different chemical composition. The granitic continental crust is lighter and much thicker than the thin and heavy basaltic oceanic crust.
have you seen this one?

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Old 15-05-2007, 01:06 PM   #12
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Hologram, I have quite a few thoughts on potential concurrent evolution between man and dinosaur and the rest of your post,
Cool one adramelech, I look forward to it.
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Old 15-05-2007, 02:21 PM   #13
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G'day Anders, I've never heard that before and I really like it. It is more plausible to me than a lot of other theories and covers a few other bases for me too. Have you got any links I can use to explore this a bit more? It looks like you have posted some photos but they haven't loaded at my end (could be my isp, it isn't the best). Any links to them? Cheers, h.
This is my own hypothesis, but I think it's obvious. Strange that the images did not show up. Here is another try:

The continental crust is different from the oceanic crust. That's not so surprising since the continental crust is from the smaller planet with different chemical composition. The granitic continental crust is lighter and much thicker than the thin and heavy basaltic oceanic crust.



Geologists have discovered that the continents once fit together to form one big continent called Pangea. That's only partly correct.



Are we really supposed to believe that the Earth had one big continent floating on one side of the planet? Is that what we would expect a planet to look like? Not likely. The continent did at one time fit together alright, not as a separate continent but as the entire crust of the smaller planet.

Pangea was the entire crust of a different planet that was peeled off when this smaller planet sank into the bigger oceanic sister planet to form Earth's heavy core.

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Old 15-05-2007, 02:35 PM   #14
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Cool video!!! I only watched the intro, but that shows what I mean by the continents fitting together on a smaller planet. I am familiar with the expanding earth theory. Combine this video with my hypothesis that the smaller planet is in fact earth's core today, and I rest my case!!!

Now I will continue to watch the rest of the video.
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Old 15-05-2007, 03:34 PM   #15
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Old 08-06-2007, 05:10 AM   #16
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I still like your hypothesis Anders.

Have any of you guys read 'True Blood Blue Blood' by Stewart Swerdlow? I read a few short chapter extracts here: http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/su...20&%20Creation

This is similar to Anders hypothesis:
Quote:
The comet then continued on toward the Earth. The heat of the sun and the gravitational pull between the two globes forced the watery atmosphere of the Earth to polarize. This polarization pulled most of the ice from the comet to the polar regions of the Earth, thus covering most openings to the inner Earth, while at the same time exposing huge land masses for the first time.
This stuff relates to the idea of the human, dinasaur and reptillian relationship.
Quote:
It is said those (Ophanim? Seraphim? winged Dracs? Ciakar? Cherubim?) who placed the Draco in our galactic sector knew that the humanoid remnant would need an aggressive parasite to trigger development.
Quote:
Here, an androgynous Reptilian culture developed. They brought with them the creatures that were their sustenance the dinosaurs. All beings create beneath them animals and plants that are a reflection of the mind-pattern. Reptilians create dinosaurs, humans create mammals. They are not designed to coexist on the same planet.
The above is all from chapter four. I haven't read the rest yet.

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Old 08-06-2007, 06:46 AM   #17
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"If the dinosaurs had had a space program, they would not be extinct." - - Carl Sagan
What, like the ?



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Old 11-06-2007, 03:44 AM   #18
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Well, i am not so sure that dinosaurs like trodon evolved into inteligent creatures, though i think that this was entirely possible during the time of the dinosaurs. How, well the fossil record is not complete.

Ok lets start with the terrosaurs. Most terrosaurs are fish eaters right? Does this mean that most of them ate fish? Not nessisarily, because think about this. When you are at the ocean, there are very powerful waves that can easily catch you in, suck you down and force you against the bottom. To a terrosaur i would think this would be deadly in most circumstances. Then, it's an easy matter to get covered with sand and all the essential minerals for fossilization are present. Now, say a terrosaur lived in the jungle, what would happen if it died? It would fall to the bottom and rot away in the muck of leaves that is an integral part of all jungle.

Ok next thing, animals that climb trees. Well, there are very few dinosaurs who would have limmited tree climbing ability, some seem as if they could climb but easily be displaced and for most dinosaurs, climbing a tree could be particulary dangerous because of their long fragile limbs. So what lived in the trees? Since everything that was anybody on land was a dinosaur and a tree would be a great place to get away. I belive something must have lived in the trees and if it was sufficently adapted to life there to stay there it would not have been able to leave, for on the ground even today a monkey is a pretty easy piece of prey. Immagine it in the time of the dinosaurs! This evolution promotes tool using and such because of the advantage of oposable thumbs or the like. Maniraptora had many offshoots and the idea that one or several species adapted to tree life is not only likely but close to documented (check out microraptor). Like i stated before, anything that lives in the jungle is not likely to get fossilized. Well i got to get up early to go out on the farm, hope i get some feedback i will post more tomorow.
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Old 11-06-2007, 04:12 AM   #19
bigus_dickus
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Old 12-06-2007, 04:53 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by pacoquerak View Post
Well, i am not so sure that dinosaurs like trodon evolved into inteligent creatures, though i think that this was entirely possible during the time of the dinosaurs. How, well the fossil record is not complete.

Ok lets start with the terrosaurs. Most terrosaurs are fish eaters right? Does this mean that most of them ate fish? Not nessisarily, because think about this. When you are at the ocean, there are very powerful waves that can easily catch you in, suck you down and force you against the bottom. To a terrosaur i would think this would be deadly in most circumstances. Then, it's an easy matter to get covered with sand and all the essential minerals for fossilization are present. Now, say a terrosaur lived in the jungle, what would happen if it died? It would fall to the bottom and rot away in the muck of leaves that is an integral part of all jungle.

Ok next thing, animals that climb trees. Well, there are very few dinosaurs who would have limmited tree climbing ability, some seem as if they could climb but easily be displaced and for most dinosaurs, climbing a tree could be particulary dangerous because of their long fragile limbs. So what lived in the trees? Since everything that was anybody on land was a dinosaur and a tree would be a great place to get away. I belive something must have lived in the trees and if it was sufficently adapted to life there to stay there it would not have been able to leave, for on the ground even today a monkey is a pretty easy piece of prey. Immagine it in the time of the dinosaurs! This evolution promotes tool using and such because of the advantage of oposable thumbs or the like. Maniraptora had many offshoots and the idea that one or several species adapted to tree life is not only likely but close to documented (check out microraptor). Like i stated before, anything that lives in the jungle is not likely to get fossilized. Well i got to get up early to go out on the farm, hope i get some feedback i will post more tomorow.
This is a good post, thanks for the input. I never make concrete statements, especially about topics like this, I was just presenting an assortment of information demonstrating one possibility of many. My original post actually touched on the lack of fossilization in forests.
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