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Old 02-04-2017, 07:13 PM   #1
the mighty zhiba
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Default Auto Hoaxers: Threat to Conspiracy?

.... Or Exposers of Truth?


Having been listening to Radio 4 today, where Alex Jones and Info Wars have come under some major criticism, with members of Sandy Hook victims petitioning Trump to cull all discourse about 'fake news / hoax / false flags' - on the back of AJ's criticism of the official Sandy Hook story.

Quote:
A paranoid conspiracy theory has acquired a new and disturbing power in America, and it has been spread by an alternative media outfit that has been linked to President Trump.

Twenty-six people, mostly young children, died at Sandy Hook Elementary School in 2012. They were the victims of a man named Adam Lanza, who killed himself after the slaughter. It was a shocking tragedy, even in a country used to regular gun violence.

Soon false rumours began to circulate online, that the attacks were staged using actors. Although they had no basis in truth, hundreds of YouTube videos, blogs, and tweets repeated the conspiracy theories. And the rumours were pushed by an alternative media mogul named Alex Jones. His online news site Infowars has millions of listeners and viewers. He's interviewed President Trump, who has repeated Infowars stories on his own Twitter feed and in speeches.

Lenny Pozner's son Noah was killed at Sandy Hook. And, as it happens, Lenny Pozner was also a fan of Infowars. That's how he first found out that people were saying the mass shooting was entirely staged.

As the "hoaxers" went to greater extremes to spread their fake news - even targeting grieving parents - Lenny Pozner led the online fightback. With the help of the Sandy Hook community, he tried to turn the tables on the conspiracy theorists.
From Lakes post on page 1088 of the SH thread here.


The continual yell from those who see all political gains-making as a reaction to events (perpetrated by morons with either a mental imbalance / psychosis or political / religious agenda) as 'hoaxes or false flags is now drawing mainstream news attention.

I think we, as a community, need to be aware of the sabre rattling from the media / alt media - both as a reflection as to how it affects us and reflects on us, as well as how it will impact freedom of speech. And believe me, if the American administration is being petitioned, it will effect freedom of speech.

But as with every sword, there is another edge: if some of the events, or some of the 'reported' aspects of those events are fake, then the further reaching aspects are to silence truth.

It is a very difficult situation that we are finding ourselves in - and this has been reflected on the forum and the debate here of these events.

Do we embrace the freedom of everyone to have a voice and an opinion, or do we silence that voice?

The situation here at the moment is thus: we allow the 'hoax, everything is a hoax' voice, in either the Rant Room or in the 'hoax' section, and we allow the generic news articles to be discussed in the main Today's News area's of the forum.

Provided that 'hoax' doesn't necessarily bleed into the TN section, we have an arena for both points of views here.

But, how damaging are the 'hoax, everything is a hoax' / auto hoaxer to the forum, and to the truth movement in general?

We, as a team took the stance to move Flat Earth type debates into the Rant Room - again allowing them to be discussed, but not giving them a stage that may eclipse other discussions on the forum - as they have a negative reflect on the more important aspects that are discussed here and elsewhere on David's work.

But does the auto hoaxer also have that same effect on other aspects being discussed?

i think this is a really important topic at the moment. There is a drive to silence aspects of the truth movement, or at least tarnish it with a 'loony' brush - no satellites, no moon, Flat Earth, auto hoaxers etc are all topics that aid the easy dismissal of the more important issues that are being exposed: paedophilia in the highest echelons of society, cover ups, political manipulation, financial manipulation, the political control network, centralisation of power into the hands of a few elite families, corruption throughout politics, finance, media, Hollywood, media, big pharma agenda's etc etc......

Are auto hoaxers the bad apples that tarnish all topics discussed, or are they getting too close to the truth?

David's talk in Germany was cancelled a short while ago, by manipulation from racists who have tarnished David and his work with their own warped views of what can and can not be said.

The twisting of 'Rothschild Zionism' into Anti-Semitism has been a hammer used to silence David on a few occasions - for the sake of their own #Zionist' agenda, and to bury the truth that a few elitist families do in fact control much of the financial, political world, and have a huge control of media, political and financial policies.

They have gone to and continue to go to great lengths to silence the truth, and i think the auto hoaxers are part of the agenda to close down the conspiracy arena.....

In the article on Radio 4, Lenny Pozner (who lost his son Noah in the Sandy Hook massacre) told of how he has received threats from 'conspiracy truthers,' how videos of his home have appeared online and how his safety / life has come under threat.

Truthers obviously believe that he is lying and is part of the cover story, a paid actor for political expansion and believe they are 'exposing him' - and that videos showing his home etc are necessary to expose him...

Goes a bit beyond a few 'internet trolls' calling him a liar.... and, tbf, is likely to cause the whole community a lot of shit.

It's a fine line between debating, looking at the evidence and just yelling 'fake' at everything. It's a fine, and difficut line that we keep on the forum, as admins / mods, between allowing free speech, keeping a peace and stopping deliberate and direct negative recall of a person's point of view and the other topics on the forum.

Now, i don't want this to turn into a 'this was fake / hoax because of XYZ' debate, there are threads for the various incidents which can be linked to.

I'd like this thread to be an open discussion on the effects 'auto hoaxers' have - both as a reflection on the conspiracy world, of the forum and on the 'real world' presentations that are also discussed.

i think that here, on the forum, we are not in a position to look at events and call them truth or hoax, because we do not know all the facts, we only know the facts that the media present.

The media can and do get those 'facts' wrong - they sensationalise, or are just ignorant of some of the points, for sure. And not every aspect will be as reported.

But can we then say X is fake / hoax because this point and this point do not add up - the event may have 100 points, if we can successfully question 10 of them, does that make the entire event fake?

No, i don't think it does.

But we can, no, we should question these events and how they are reported if there are discrepancies in them - but i think that questioning becomes unhealthy when we are unable to address that 90% and rely only on the 10% to call fake / hoax....

Of course all these events have a political and / or financial reaction. More surveillance, more armed police, less freedom, more war, more rebuilding or war-torn countries, more taxation etc etc.

But, when we are aware of this, does this really over-lay all events with a direct political manipulated hoax?

We can see how the politicians manipulate their affairs beyond the events, taking advantage of them to create more laws, more taxation, less freedoms etc - but as any other parasite, they will always take advantage of the situations around them to make them stronger.
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Old 02-04-2017, 07:41 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by the mighty zhiba View Post
.... Or Exposers of Truth?


Having been listening to Radio 4 today, where Alex Jones and Info Wars have come under some major criticism, with members of Sandy Hook victims petitioning Trump to cull all discourse about 'fake news / hoax / false flags' - on the back of AJ's criticism of the official Sandy Hook story.



From Lakes post on page 1088 of the SH thread here.


The continual yell from those who see all political gains-making as a reaction to events (perpetrated by morons with either a mental imbalance / psychosis or political / religious agenda) as 'hoaxes or false flags is now drawing mainstream news attention.

I think we, as a community, need to be aware of the sabre rattling from the media / alt media - both as a reflection as to how it affects us and reflects on us, as well as how it will impact freedom of speech. And believe me, if the American administration is being petitioned, it will effect freedom of speech.

But as with every sword, there is another edge: if some of the events, or some of the 'reported' aspects of those events are fake, then the further reaching aspects are to silence truth.

It is a very difficult situation that we are finding ourselves in - and this has been reflected on the forum and the debate here of these events.

Do we embrace the freedom of everyone to have a voice and an opinion, or do we silence that voice?

The situation here at the moment is thus: we allow the 'hoax, everything is a hoax' voice, in either the Rant Room or in the 'hoax' section, and we allow the generic news articles to be discussed in the main Today's News area's of the forum.

Provided that 'hoax' doesn't necessarily bleed into the TN section, we have an arena for both points of views here.

But, how damaging are the 'hoax, everything is a hoax' / auto hoaxer to the forum, and to the truth movement in general?

We, as a team took the stance to move Flat Earth type debates into the Rant Room - again allowing them to be discussed, but not giving them a stage that may eclipse other discussions on the forum - as they have a negative reflect on the more important aspects that are discussed here and elsewhere on David's work.

But does the auto hoaxer also have that same effect on other aspects being discussed?

i think this is a really important topic at the moment. There is a drive to silence aspects of the truth movement, or at least tarnish it with a 'loony' brush - no satellites, no moon, Flat Earth, auto hoaxers etc are all topics that aid the easy dismissal of the more important issues that are being exposed: paedophilia in the highest echelons of society, cover ups, political manipulation, financial manipulation, the political control network, centralisation of power into the hands of a few elite families, corruption throughout politics, finance, media, Hollywood, media, big pharma agenda's etc etc......

Are auto hoaxers the bad apples that tarnish all topics discussed, or are they getting too close to the truth?

David's talk in Germany was cancelled a short while ago, by manipulation from racists who have tarnished David and his work with their own warped views of what can and can not be said.

The twisting of 'Rothschild Zionism' into Anti-Semitism has been a hammer used to silence David on a few occasions - for the sake of their own #Zionist' agenda, and to bury the truth that a few elitist families do in fact control much of the financial, political world, and have a huge control of media, political and financial policies.

They have gone to and continue to go to great lengths to silence the truth, and i think the auto hoaxers are part of the agenda to close down the conspiracy arena.....

In the article on Radio 4, Lenny Pozner (who lost his son Noah in the Sandy Hook massacre) told of how he has received threats from 'conspiracy truthers,' how videos of his home have appeared online and how his safety / life has come under threat.

Truthers obviously believe that he is lying and is part of the cover story, a paid actor for political expansion and believe they are 'exposing him' - and that videos showing his home etc are necessary to expose him...

Goes a bit beyond a few 'internet trolls' calling him a liar.... and, tbf, is likely to cause the whole community a lot of shit.

It's a fine line between debating, looking at the evidence and just yelling 'fake' at everything. It's a fine, and difficut line that we keep on the forum, as admins / mods, between allowing free speech, keeping a peace and stopping deliberate and direct negative recall of a person's point of view and the other topics on the forum.

Now, i don't want this to turn into a 'this was fake / hoax because of XYZ' debate, there are threads for the various incidents which can be linked to.

I'd like this thread to be an open discussion on the effects 'auto hoaxers' have - both as a reflection on the conspiracy world, of the forum and on the 'real world' presentations that are also discussed.

i think that here, on the forum, we are not in a position to look at events and call them truth or hoax, because we do not know all the facts, we only know the facts that the media present.

The media can and do get those 'facts' wrong - they sensationalise, or are just ignorant of some of the points, for sure. And not every aspect will be as reported.

But can we then say X is fake / hoax because this point and this point do not add up - the event may have 100 points, if we can successfully question 10 of them, does that make the entire event fake?

No, i don't think it does.

But we can, no, we should question these events and how they are reported if there are discrepancies in them - but i think that questioning becomes unhealthy when we are unable to address that 90% and rely only on the 10% to call fake / hoax....

Of course all these events have a political and / or financial reaction. More surveillance, more armed police, less freedom, more war, more rebuilding or war-torn countries, more taxation etc etc.

But, when we are aware of this, does this really over-lay all events with a direct political manipulated hoax?

We can see how the politicians manipulate their affairs beyond the events, taking advantage of them to create more laws, more taxation, less freedoms etc - but as any other parasite, they will always take advantage of the situations around them to make them stronger.
Imo it's essential for forum members to be allowed to question these events without harassment, regardless of whether they think it's a hoax or not.

It really is down to freedom of speech which is being eroded at a more rapid pace of late.

Are the MSM now talking about false flags/hoaxes because so many people are unsure about 9/11 etc and they
want to discredit those who question the Government/media narratives about these events?


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Old 02-04-2017, 08:05 PM   #3
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More than anything else, they disrespect the people who die and their loved ones, in the name of "keeping an open mind". I'll come back to that phrase.

Do they threaten the credibility of scholars and researchers who have been doing an effective job without the need for auto hoax? Yes, they probably do, but maybe only temporarily. I think they have a limited shelf life.

Maybe the question should be raised why they've arisen? I personally think it's because there's a tendency for some people to view everything as a conspiracy, and this is the ultimate result of that kind of projection. Whilst I don't rule out intelligence agencies, I reckon some folks are quite adept at this without the intervention of those agencies.

Before that, researchers would look at information and once they'd sifted it through, they worked out whether a conspiracy was at work or not.

Now it's the other way around; people have made their minds up before they've even researched, using Youtube, Google image and the like as "infallible guides". They have completely confused seeking truth with 'seeking paranoia/seeking conspiracies'.

Reminds me of that quote about your brains falling out if you're too "open minded".

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Old 03-04-2017, 12:42 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by decode reality View Post
More than anything else, they disrespect the people who die and their loved ones, in the name of "keeping an open mind". I'll come back to that phrase.

Do they threaten the credibility of scholars and researchers who have been doing an effective job without the need for auto hoax? Yes, they probably do, but maybe only temporarily. I think they have a limited shelf life.

Maybe the question should be raised why they've arisen? I personally think it's because there's a tendency for some people to view everything as a conspiracy, and this is the ultimate result of that kind of projection. Whilst I don't rule out intelligence agencies, I reckon some folks are quite adept at this without the intervention of those agencies.

Before that, researchers would look at information and once they'd sifted it through, they worked out whether a conspiracy was at work or not.

Now it's the other way around; people have made their minds up before they've even researched, using Youtube, Google image and the like as "infallible guides". They have completely confused seeking truth with 'seeking paranoia/seeking conspiracies'.

Reminds me of that quote about your brains falling out if you're too "open minded".
I see where you're coming from but on the other hand false flag events are the meat and drink that fuel the hidden hand agenda forward. If an event happens or not, it's more important that there is a perception that it happened. Judged from that perspective hoaxes are just as good as a real event, so why wouldn't they do it? They actually have more control over a hoax than any other event, so why wouldn't they?
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Old 03-04-2017, 01:45 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by thegatherer View Post
I see where you're coming from but on the other hand false flag events are the meat and drink that fuel the hidden hand agenda forward. If an event happens or not, it's more important that there is a perception that it happened. Judged from that perspective hoaxes are just as good as a real event, so why wouldn't they do it? They actually have more control over a hoax than any other event, so why wouldn't they?
i would say that because of the events such as Sandy Hook, Boston marathon, 7/7, Westminster etc.. there are too many people involved who could rattle the gig up.

If you look at the Sandy Hook shooting, all those who died and all their families, the nurses, doctors, corners, teachers etc etc who were involved in a cover up nuber hundreds, plus their families and those closest to them, the funeral directors, - the list is almost endless: all of them were involved in a cover up?

Also, even if you look at problem, reaction, solution tactic of Gvt - the American Gvt could revoke the 2nd amendment anytime they like, citing 90,000 gun related deaths since Sandy Hook

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...-change-builds

They don't need to create the horror, the horror is there.

Now, OC they could psy-op the perp / mind control people like Lanza and Masood to go out and create these drama's - as part of a forward thinking and unravelling agenda - something that i think is wholly more likely than them setting the entire event up. Something which has some credence in history - MK Ultra, Kenedy etc where a 'patsy' is mind-controlled to create these events, often through political and religious ideologies.

That makes 100% more sense than having hundreds, thousands of actors, all of whom could easilly pop the cherry of the cover up at any time.

Far easier to mind control one person and / or programme them with some political or religious ideology / radicalise them into a way of thinking - and let them loose... In effect create a time bomb that can be exploded at a given time or a random time to create a collateral damage tollthat warrants a reaction.... How time sensitive that reaction is, is wholly dependent on the time scale they are driving to.

That certainly fits in.

And then, to essentially create a 'problem' that needs a solution, we see the 'reaction' to the problem is the auto hoaxers....

While there are many who wish to look at the evidence available in any event, i think that it is obvious that there are some who are (by and large) gvt plants to stir up the hoax agenda within social media also.

I'm not suggesting that everyone who questions the validity of the official story is a gvt plant, but gvts do use people to swerve debate and thinking, these people will often bully and cajole others into their way of thinking - pointing out and then hanging onto inaccuracies and 'media assumptions' (untruths, editotrial licence or whatever) to suggest the entire event was staged....

These people do not wish to see any relevent details being discussed and yell hoax as an automatic response - even before the story is fully out. They yell hoax and muddy the waters with YT video's and ignore much of the facts, latching onto a few of those 'media exagerations' and claim the entire thing is hoaxed....

We shouldn't confuse these people with real truth seekers, although tbf the lines do tend to blur a little sometimes, sigh.

It isn't real truth seekers who are sending threats to victims families, hounding them on social media, putting up videos showing where they live and memes of gravestones with 'fake' tags etc.

And then, from that Gvt bodies such as Parliament, and in the case of the Radio 4 show, Trump and Congress are lobbied to 'do something about the conspiracy nuts' - given that people (family of victims etc) are being threatened, that their addresses and identities are being 'outed' through social media and that Trump has been involved - coupled with the 'fake news' articles and the crack down on them that is all the political craze at the moment, i think this clearly shows that there is a decisive element of 'shut down' being applied here.

We're also seeing a resurgance of 'Nibiru' and Flat earth topics being hurled into the chaos too - again, to take the focus of what is really going on - far Right Wing Zionist agenda's at work through media, finance and politics, creating political expansion, war and debt that focusses the worlds wealth and power into 1% of the worlds population....

i think that the 'conspiracy arena' is under a very focussed and very intent attack.

And they are applying inalienable concepts of 'freedom of speech,' 'open mind' and 'question everything' to do it. It is a very dark attack that we should be extremely aware of - aware of the consequences that it will create, because if we are the problem -and in questioning the Zionist rule around us, believe me, they will see those who question their right as a problem, then the will create a reaction. I think the reaction is 'fake news' sites (who must surely be on the pay of those alphabet agencies) and 'auto hoaxers' - who can be, and are being, pointed at and declared as the problem - the reation to which will be less freedom of speech, more internet laws, more snooping and survailance and a shut down on 'trolling' - where forums that discuss hoax's will become the focus of political attention... we're seeing this already.

We should also be aware of how it is effecting the conspiracy community here and now, creating divission and negativity, as well as how it is reflecting on the core thesis of our work and David's work onto the wider society view.....
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Old 03-04-2017, 06:32 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by thegatherer View Post
I see where you're coming from but on the other hand false flag events are the meat and drink that fuel the hidden hand agenda forward. If an event happens or not, it's more important that there is a perception that it happened. Judged from that perspective hoaxes are just as good as a real event, so why wouldn't they do it? They actually have more control over a hoax than any other event, so why wouldn't they?
A couple of posters on other threads have mentioned that it's quite easy to work out when an image or video has been doctored and manipulated. There's even the software available to anyone online that can do this.

False flags are far more plausible, though. It just wouldn't be possible to control the fall out, nor pay off the sheer amount of people involved in staging an event, including random spectators and those not directly involved.

It's also quite easy to put together a hoax scenario if someone's watching an event unfold from the safe vantage point of their home, far away from the action. If we knew of anyone in the vicinity of a major incident, hoax would not even cross our minds.

Where does it stop? 7/7 would no doubt be seen as a hoax today.
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Old 03-04-2017, 07:18 AM   #7
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@Decode and Mighty Ziba...yes I do agree that the amount of people who need to stay quiet for a hoax makes it hard and that's the part I struggle with. Without going into details of any particular event and to play devils advocate...it might be possible if a. the people involved were handsomely paid and set up for life career-wise, b. insiders to the motives, c. were aware that they may well die as consequence of talking. Certain people could also be mind controlled or chipped etc.

I'll be honest I'm not an expert on alleged hoaxes, I'm not a 'auto-hoaxer' either....I just wouldn't rule it out.
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Old 03-04-2017, 08:33 AM   #8
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@Decode and Mighty Ziba...yes I do agree that the amount of people who need to stay quiet for a hoax makes it hard and that's the part I struggle with. Without going into details of any particular event and to play devils advocate...it might be possible if a. the people involved were handsomely paid and set up for life career-wise, b. insiders to the motives, c. were aware that they may well die as consequence of talking. Certain people could also be mind controlled or chipped etc.

I'll be honest I'm not an expert on alleged hoaxes, I'm not a 'auto-hoaxer' either....I just wouldn't rule it out.
Wouldn't have said you were an auto-hoaxer, no. People are always going to conceive many possibilities and causes for events, though discernment helps. If someone very earnestly puts forward an outlandish theory in the public/mainstream domain (or even alternative), it doesn't help their case if it's presented in a way that is easily debunked. That then makes them look like the boy who cried wolf, where anything else they say is then dismissed.
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Old 03-04-2017, 09:02 AM   #9
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I think the subject of 'auto hoaxers' is a very important one given how it looks as though this is going to be used as a means of curtailing even more freedoms.

I am surprised this thread has not had more replies, zhiba.

We know there is an element on this forum who 'come alive' when a perceived terror event takes place.

They do not wait to hear the full extent of what has occurred before they are declaring Hoax/FF and shouting down anyone who tries to look at the evidence with even a hint of rationality.

I perceive these people as a very dark element. They metaphorically stand in front of real conspiracy research/ers to muddy the waters, shouting louder than anyone else to make it near on impossible to lay out proper, viable evidence that might actually be of use in getting to the truth of the matter.

Something to watch out for, their tactics consist of flooding a thread with graphic pictures and mocking them, they will then quote the images as many times as they can get away with, which makes a thread awkward to read.

As admin of this forum we can be an easy scapegoat for the likes of these posters who will cry "censorship" when we act to put a stop to their tactics. We have learnt over the years that you will never please everyone, and we are determined not to let this 'element' ever take hold of this forum again. We need to keep the path clear for genuine members who want to get to the heart of the matter using facts, objectivity, logic and reasoning, without having to be faced with abuse from those who would have the waters muddy.
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Old 03-04-2017, 09:06 AM   #10
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Set up the job and knowingly let it happen, then make sure the patsy is removed from the scene.

I can here the briefing team to the other services, we are having an excercise at the end of the week but always be prepared just in case there are insiders that might get wind of it taking place.

There are many ways to forewarn all sides that something could likely go wrong.

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Old 03-04-2017, 11:01 AM   #11
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Jesus Christ , So sandy hook was real now right ??
You know you are admin on the David Icke forum right ? Where even icke states it was clearly a hoax and he's often a little reserved in these matters.

Boston is the most evidence laden example of a drill gone live and 'the Boston unbombing' should be required viewing for every member of this forum especially those that want to give an opinion on hoaxing.



So if it's reasonable to at least consider that one or two of these agenda driven events might be completely contrived , then the hoax angle has to be considered when these events roll around.
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Old 03-04-2017, 11:03 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by decode reality View Post
More than anything else, they disrespect the people who die and their loved ones, in the name of "keeping an open mind". I'll come back to that phrase.

Do they threaten the credibility of scholars and researchers who have been doing an effective job without the need for auto hoax? Yes, they probably do, but maybe only temporarily. I think they have a limited shelf life.

Maybe the question should be raised why they've arisen? I personally think it's because there's a tendency for some people to view everything as a conspiracy, and this is the ultimate result of that kind of projection. Whilst I don't rule out intelligence agencies, I reckon some folks are quite adept at this without the intervention of those agencies.

Before that, researchers would look at information and once they'd sifted it through, they worked out whether a conspiracy was at work or not.

Now it's the other way around; people have made their minds up before they've even researched, using Youtube, Google image and the like as "infallible guides". They have completely confused seeking truth with 'seeking paranoia/seeking conspiracies'.

Reminds me of that quote about your brains falling out if you're too "open minded".
You think it's disrespectful to challenge sandy hook right ?
I hope you contributed to the go fund me totals
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Old 03-04-2017, 11:09 AM   #13
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Jesus Christ , So sandy hook was real now right ?? You know you are admin on the David Icke forum right ? Where even icke states it was clearly a hoax and he's often a little reserved in these matters.

Boston is the most evidence laden example of a drill gone live and 'the Boston unbombing' (on YouTube) should be required viewing for every member of this forum especially those that want to give an opinion on hoaxing.

So if it's reasonable to at least consider that one or two of these agenda driven events might be completely contrived , then the hoax angle has to be considered when these events roll around.
Facepalm all you like. You are being obtuse if you believe that is what the op is saying.

Auto hoaxer are becoming a real threat to peoples freedom of speech. It will be a tool used to silence genuine concerns. This is a discussion that we should all be aware of and 'Point scoring' posts are doing damage in the same way.
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Old 03-04-2017, 11:23 AM   #14
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Facepalm all you like. You are being obtuse if you believe that is what the op is saying.

Auto hoaxer are becoming a real threat to peoples freedom of speech. It will be a tool used to silence genuine concerns. This is a discussion that we should all be aware of and 'Point scoring' posts are doing damage in the same way.
Oh yeah? The OP is posting Lenny Pozner's nonsense. You know Pozner right ? His son died at Sandy Hook then in a dreadful period of bad luck, died again in Pakistan. I guess picking out these discrepancies is disrespectful.

OK, lets then have some clarity about what this thread is all about then because to me , this term 'auto-hoaxer' just seems to be another contrived pejorative term, such as 'truther', ' holocaust denier' , the language of the establishment and a tool to box people in and yes, to ultimately censor.
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Old 03-04-2017, 11:41 AM   #15
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I waited nearly two weeks to make my first post on Westminster and I guess in that post I inferred it could be a hoax.

Now, what I want to know is does that make me an 'Auto-Hoaxer' or am I more of a self-loathing 'Auto-Hoaxer' ??..
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Old 03-04-2017, 11:50 AM   #16
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Oh yeah? The OP is posting Lenny Pozner's nonsense. You know Pozner right ? His son died at Sandy Hook then in a dreadful period of bad luck, died again in Pakistan. I guess picking out these discrepancies is disrespectful.

OK, lets then have some clarity about what this thread is all about then because to me , this term 'auto-hoaxer' just seems to be another contrived pejorative term, such as 'truther', ' holocaust denier' , the language of the establishment and a tool to box people in and yes, to ultimately censor.
Clarity:

Right now in the msm there is an on-going drive to silence any alternative discussion in relation to suspicious events ( e.g Sandy Hook ) The point the op is making is that the easiest and quickest way to get discussion shut down ( even going as far as to make such opinions a criminal offense) would be to plant 'auto hoaxers' within the 'truther community' - Would you at least agree with me, so far?

Would you also consider as truth, the idea that this type of forum would attract people with an agenda to subvert any real evidence that either a hoax or ff occurred.

We as the admin team on dif, do consider this a strong possibility and as such, try to keep the path clear of disinfo. I am sure that everyone can recognise that this is not a clear cut task.

as the op has said:

It's a fine line between debating, looking at the evidence and just yelling 'fake' at everything. It's a fine, and difficut line that we keep on the forum, as admins / mods, between allowing free speech, keeping a peace and stopping deliberate and direct negative recall of a person's point of view and the other topics on the forum.

Now, i don't want this to turn into a 'this was fake / hoax because of XYZ' debate, there are threads for the various incidents which can be linked to.

I'd like this thread to be an open discussion on the effects 'auto hoaxers' have - both as a reflection on the conspiracy world, of the forum and on the 'real world' presentations that are also discussed.

i think that here, on the forum, we are not in a position to look at events and call them truth or hoax, because we do not know all the facts, we only know the facts that the media present.

The media can and do get those 'facts' wrong - they sensationalise, or are just ignorant of some of the points, for sure. And not every aspect will be as reported.

But can we then say X is fake / hoax because this point and this point do not add up - the event may have 100 points, if we can successfully question 10 of them, does that make the entire event fake?

No, i don't think it does.

But we can, no, we should question these events and how they are reported if there are discrepancies in them - but i think that questioning becomes unhealthy when we are unable to address that 90% and rely only on the 10% to call fake / hoax...."

Question everything! But do so with discernment, that is what is needed here.

It makes me laugh when I notice which of the members are so quick to jump and attack the staff on here for voicing concerns that we should all have.

I don't know about you, but I am not prepared to give up my freedoms for people that cannot conduct themselves with any sense of consequence for their thoughtless words.
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Old 03-04-2017, 12:24 PM   #17
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Facepalm all you like. You are being obtuse if you believe that is what the op is saying.

Auto hoaxer are becoming a real threat to peoples freedom of speech. It will be a tool used to silence genuine concerns. This is a discussion that we should all be aware of and 'Point scoring' posts are doing damage in the same way.
sorry getagrip but I must strongly disagree with that.
Auto haoxing is merely opinion, and the establishments are the threat to freedom of speech, not auto hoaxers.

Ever heard this statement online "pics, or it never happened"
This is people questioning someones version of events and its a new internet mantra. There is so much bullshit on line that people need valid proof nowadays, if the establishment purposefully obfuscate the footage/discourse which contradicts their stories of alleged terror events, then it natural for some people to cry "fake" and completely disbelieve any of the official narrative.

What is being presented here is a notion that questioning the official versions and concluding what the establishment are reporting is a Islamic terror event as fake, will result in the establishment taking away our voice..because we dont agree with what they say!
This is beyond Orwellian, this is thought control dressed up as govt advice by the establishment.
Think what we want you to think, or we will stop you communicating with each other..no independent thought allowed!
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Old 03-04-2017, 12:27 PM   #18
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I've yet to see any credible evidence that the Westminster attack was a hoax. Photos of victims smiling? So what?
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Old 03-04-2017, 12:29 PM   #19
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....i think that here, on the forum, we are not in a position to look at events and call them truth or hoax, because we do not know all the facts, we only know the facts that the media present.

The media can and do get those 'facts' wrong - they sensationalise, or are just ignorant of some of the points, for sure. And not every aspect will be as reported.......

Our grasp of events in the world is indeed partial and the msm may wish be the eyes through which we see it they are very selective eyes driven by agenda and somewhat under the control of the intelligence services and governments. Both the latter and the msm itself can be subverted by third parties.
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Old 03-04-2017, 12:30 PM   #20
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I've yet to see any credible evidence that the Westminster attack was a hoax. Photos of victims smiling? So what?
Westminster thread ---------------------------------->
https://forum.davidicke.com/showthre...post1062904313

Join in there, we can discus it like sensible adults..this thread is not about specific threads/topics
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