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Old 02-10-2014, 11:27 PM   #2521
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Arrow Myth Busters

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Madeline Montalban (8 January 1910–11 January 1982) was an English astrologer and ceremonial magician who co-founded the esoteric organisation known as the Order of the Morning Star (OMS), through which she propagated her own form of Luciferianism..She believed that the Luciferian religion had its origin among the Chaldean people of ancient Babylon in the Middle East, and believed that in a former life, the OMS's members had been "initiates of the Babylonian and Ancient Egyptian priesthood" from where they had originally known each other.. She considered herself the reincarnation of King Richard III, and was a member of the Richard III Society; on one occasion, she visited the site of Richard's death at the Battle of Bosworth Field with fellow OMS members, wearing a suit of armour...

Born Madeline Sylvia Royals in Blackpool, Lancashire, Montalban moved to London in the early 1930s, immersing herself in the city's esoteric subculture, and influenced by Hermeticism she taught herself ceremonial magic. She associated with significant occultists, including Thelemites like Aleister Crowley and Kenneth Grant, and Wiccans like Gerald Gardner and Alex Sanders. From 1933 to 1953 she published articles on astrology and other esoteric topics in the magazine London Life, and from then until her death in the nationally syndicated magazine Prediction. These were accompanied by several booklets on astrology, released using a variety of different pseudonyms, including Dolores North, Madeline Alvarez and Nina del Luna..

In the early 1930s, she left Blackpool and moved south to London. Her reasons for doing so have never been satisfactorily explained, and she would offer multiple, contradictory accounts of her reasoning in later life. According to one account, her father sent her to study with the famed occultist and mystic Aleister Crowley, who had founded the religion of Thelema in 1904; Montalban's biographer Julia Philips noted that while she met Crowley in London, this story remains implausible. Another of Montalban's accounts held that she moved to the capital in order to work for the Daily Express newspaper; this claim has never been corroborated, and one of the paper's reporters at the time, Justine Glass, has claimed that she never remembered Montalban working there.. Montalban often changed her stories, and informed later disciple Michael Howard that upon arrival in London, the Daily Express sent her to interview Crowley. According to this story, when she first visited him at his lodgings in Jermyn Street, he was suffering from an asthma attack, and having had experience with this ailment from a family member she was able to help him, earning his gratitude. They subsequently went to the expensive Café Royal in Regent Street, where after their lunch, he revealed that he was unable to pay, leaving Montalban to sort out payment..To quote Sanders (8 March 1997..Your letters give off good vibrations of work and happiness.. I feel that all our growing pains concerning publicity and personalities of the Wicca, are beginning to bear fruit.. A few of us in the midst of many are beginning to establish the foundation (I mean the building itself) on the raw materials, to get the foundation stone in place...




She expressed hostility to another prominent Pagan Witch of the period, Charles Cardell, although in the 1960s became friends with the two Witches at the forefront of the Alexandrian Wiccan tradition, Alex Sanders and his wife, Maxine Sanders, who adopted some of her Luciferian angelic practices.. She personally despised being referred to as a "witch", and was particularly angry when the esoteric magazine Man, Myth and Magic referred to her as "The Witch of St. Giles", an area of Central London which she would later inhabit..After leaving Holly Hill, Montalban moved to a flat in the Queen Alexandra Mansions at 3 Grape Street in the St. Giles district of Holborn. Here, she was in close proximity to the two primary bookstores then catering to occult interests, Atlantis Bookshop and Watkins Bookshop, as well as to the British Museum.. She offered one of the rooms in her flat to a young astrologer and musician, Rick Hayward, whom she had met in the summer of 1967; he joined the OMS, and in the last few months of Montalban's life authored her astrological forecasts for Prediction. After her death, he continued publishing astrological prophecies in Prediction and Prediction Annual until summer 2012..Montalban disliked the theatrical use of props and rites in ceremonial magic, such as that performed by the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, preferring a more simplistic use of ritual...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_Witches_Do
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madeline_Montalban
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showp...3&postcount=71Have you ever been to England, Miss Gamble..Could anyone among us, have an inkling or a clue... what magic feats of wizardry and voodoo you can do...http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showp...&postcount=107
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Blackstone_Group
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showp...postcount=1411

Last edited by lightgiver; 02-10-2014 at 11:32 PM.
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Old 02-10-2014, 11:30 PM   #2522
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yes, you quoted a quote on wikipedia.
not only out of context, but from a secondary source.
have you no intellectual shame?
wow.

and to use this to give evidence for a stance, is dishonest.
I am very doubtful that you have even been a teacher before retiring bikerdruid. Your style of debate is simply childish! Where did you leave your intellect?
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Old 02-10-2014, 11:35 PM   #2523
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I am very doubtful that you have even been a teacher before retiring bikerdruid. Your style of debate is simply childish! Where did you leave your intellect?
wow.
you obviously know nothing whatever about intellectual discourse.
which is no surprise, since you seem to know very little about a great many subjects.

quoting secondary sources as evidence of anything, is dishonest.
a quote for illustrative purposes in a text is an interpretation of it.
quoting that, is an interpretation of an interpretation.
context is everything.

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Old 03-10-2014, 12:33 AM   #2524
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wow.
you obviously know nothing whatever about intellectual discourse.
which is no surprise, since you seem to know very little about a great many subjects.

quoting secondary sources as evidence of anything, is dishonest.
a quote for illustrative purposes in a text is an interpretation of it.
quoting that, is an interpretation of an interpretation.
context is everything.
If you think it's out of context, quote full text and point out properly.
Your words are cheap.
Please back up your points with evidence or else your words are just as dishonest.
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Old 03-10-2014, 12:40 AM   #2525
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If you think it's out of context, quote full text .
not my job, dearie.
and, i do not think you quoted out of context, i know.
you quoted one line out of four, quoted by wikipedia, claiming it as evidence of the the evil nature of all demons.
FAIL!

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Old 03-10-2014, 12:44 AM   #2526
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Here is an example.
I was looking through 72 Goetic demons and this one says:

There are others like this.
So my point is, you cannot learn to control or command them because deceptive behaviour is just the natural part of them. Do you see the danger? You think you can control....to a certain extent yes but not.
Sorry, but you're quoting a very short wikipedia article that has no citation.

I just looked it up just now in my own copy of the Goetia, and it says no such thing. There is indeed a "Malphas", which is an alternative name of Halphas, but it states nothing about a "sacrifice".

The only thing close to a sacrifice that I've ever heard of in regard to the Goetia involves the demon Belial, and that involves making a "blood offering". Basically cutting yourself and leaving droplets of blood in the triangle.
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Old 03-10-2014, 01:06 AM   #2527
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Sorry, but you're quoting a very short wikipedia article that has no citation.

I just looked it up just now in my own copy of the Goetia, and it says no such thing. There is indeed a "Malphas", which is an alternative name of Halphas, but it states nothing about a "sacrifice".

The only thing close to a sacrifice that I've ever heard of in regard to the Goetia involves the demon Belial, and that involves making a "blood offering". Basically cutting yourself and leaving droplets of blood in the triangle.
Here is another and it says...
Source: Mathers, Samuel MacGregor Liddel: “The Goetia: The Lesser Key of Solomon the King” (1904) http://www.fromoldbooks.org/Mathers-...al-of-Malphas/

Again, 'sacrifice' and 'deceive' is mentioned.

Also this site mention it too. Is your version abridged by any chance?
http://www.grimoires.com/Lemegeton/Goetia4.html

I'll try to look for the complete pdf.

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Old 03-10-2014, 01:07 AM   #2528
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Here is an example.
I was looking through 72 Goetic demons and this one says:

There are others like this.
So my point is, you cannot learn to control or command them because deceptive behaviour is just the natural part of them. Do you see the danger? You think you can control....to a certain extent yes but not.
Actually, I stand corrected. I actually found an older version of the Goetia which does indeed state this about Malphas here:

http://www.esotericarchives.com/solomon/goetia.htm

You have to scroll down about a quarter of the way to find the entry on Malphas.

I find it rather interesting that not only is this left out of current printings of the Goetia, but also that Halphas and Malphas have also been combined into one "demon" in modern versions.
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Old 03-10-2014, 01:09 AM   #2529
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Here is another and it says...
Source: Mathers, Samuel MacGregor Liddel: “The Goetia: The Lesser Key of Solomon the King” (1904) http://www.fromoldbooks.org/Mathers-...al-of-Malphas/

Again, 'sacrifice' and 'deceive' is mentioned.
I'll try to look for the complete pdf.
No need. I found a source that backs up what you stated.

It should be noted though that entry concerning Malphas clearly states that he will deceive you if you offer him a sacrifice. So the obvious implicit suggestion there is to not make such an offering.
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Old 03-10-2014, 01:14 AM   #2530
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No need. I found a source that backs up what you stated.

It should be noted though that entry concerning Malphas clearly states that he will deceive you if you offer him a sacrifice. So the obvious implicit suggestion there is to not make such an offering.
I've only quoted one (Malphas) but there were others that deceives as well if you clicked on 72 demons listed on wiki. So going back to your point, you cannot control demons even though that's how it's been explained to you. There was only one faithful demon out of 72. It was interesting clicking through every single one of them to read a brief description of them.

Anyway, I like your approach to study which I think good and fair.
Just because you didn't find the missing part in your book, you didn't stop there and looked further. Although you are already vested in AA, you keep an open mind. Otherwise, how will you find the truth?

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Old 03-10-2014, 01:22 AM   #2531
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Lightbulb Let It Bee

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Let It Be is the 12th and final studio album released by the English rock band the Beatles. It was released on 8 May 1970 by the band's Apple Records label shortly after the group announced their break-up..Recorded February 1968..January – February 1969...
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=278146
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In demonology, Beleth is a mighty and terrible king of Hell, who has 85 legions of demons under his command. He rides a pale horse, and all kinds of music is heard before him, according to most authors on demonology and the most known grimoires. According to Pseudomonarchia Daemonum Ham, Noah's son, was the first in invoking him after the flood, and wrote a book on Mathematics with his help..When appearing he looks very fierce to frighten the conjurer or to see if he is courageous. The conjurer must be brave, and holding a hazel wand in his hand must draw a triangle by striking towards the South, East, and upwards, then commanding Beleth into it by means of some conjurations..If he does not obey, the conjurer must rehearse all threatens the conjurations said and then Beleth will obey and do all that he is commanded. But the conjurer must be respectful and do homage unto Beleth due to his rank, and hold a silver ring in the middle finger of the left hand against his face, as it is the use of hellish kings and princes before Amaymon...Beleth gives all the love of men and women he is commanded until the conjurer is satisfied...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beleth
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showp...&postcount=536He speaks to you..You must trust that He speaks in a way that you can understand..My father said that one day, if man continued in his ways, the Creator would annihilate this world... http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showp...&postcount=537

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Old 03-10-2014, 01:24 AM   #2532
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I've only quoted one (Malphas) but there were others that deceives as well if you clicked on 72 demons listed on wiki. So going back to your point, you cannot control demons even though that's how it's been explained to you. There was only one faithful demon out of 72. It was interesting clicking through every single one of them to read a brief description of them.
I'm currently looking through the older version of the Goetia. I really do find these changes between the old and the new versions very interesting.

I completely agree that deceit is part of their nature. No competent magician would ever deny that. But I do disagree about whether or not they can be controlled. Deception is only a bad thing when you fall for it. So don't. Deception can be defeated with intelligence.

I agree that this is a very risky and potentially dangerous form of magick. That's the very reason why I haven't yet practiced it myself, but have only studied it. And believe it or not, there are many magicicians, even Thelemites, who state that it should never be practiced at all. I just happen to disagree with them.
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Old 03-10-2014, 01:56 AM   #2533
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I'm currently looking through the older version of the Goetia. I really do find these changes between the old and the new versions very interesting.
I wonder why. Whoever edited out may have thought it would be easier to recruit more people by omitting a cruicial piece of information?

Quote:
I completely agree that deceit is part of their nature. No competent magician would ever deny that. But I do disagree about whether or not they can be controlled. Deception is only a bad thing when you fall for it. So don't. Deception can be defeated with intelligence.
If so, there would have been less death and tragedies.

Quote:
I agree that this is a very risky and potentially dangerous form of magick. That's the very reason why I haven't yet practiced it myself, but have only studied it. And believe it or not, there are many magicicians, even Thelemites, who state that it should never be practiced at all. I just happen to disagree with them.
If it's not your life, it could cost your loved ones' life so studying thoroughly is good before you make a judgement on. I am dipping in the toe not to practice but really to learn about what it is about.

My hunch is that you can achieve enlightenment/spiritual development WITHOUT asking help from demons. I have been studying spiritual stuff from Buddhism, divination, energy work etc and there hasn't been a need to call for demons and I do feel I have developed spiritually in the past 20 years though I still have a long way to go.
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Old 03-10-2014, 03:28 AM   #2534
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My hunch is that you can achieve enlightenment/spiritual development WITHOUT asking help from demons. I have been studying spiritual stuff from Buddhism, divination, energy work etc and there hasn't been a need to call for demons ...
Off course .... mixing with daemons is the road to ruin.

They feed off our energy, and only work with humans as long as they get more out of it than they give. I'm very skeptical that they can be 'bound' by sigils or calling them by name , probably a ruse to lead the magician into a sticky web.

It'll be interesting to see in the coming decades to see if these entities are still around in our reality, perhaps as our energy shifts to a higher frequency, they will fade away.
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Old 03-10-2014, 08:59 AM   #2535
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Off course .... mixing with daemons is the road to ruin.
I am glad that you are looking at magick from healthy POV even though you have 93666 in your username.
I don't believe all magick are harmful. The harmful ones are particular ones that involves demons.

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They feed off our energy, and only work with humans as long as they get more out of it than they give. I'm very skeptical that they can be 'bound' by sigils or calling them by name , probably a ruse to lead the magician into a sticky web.
You are tellin' me. They keep coming for me and I am going through my testing period thanks to a magician. I believe, I need to go through this period to strengthen my muscles. Anyway, so I know exactly what you mean about feeding off our energy. If you think about this....when people interact/have some kind of relationships, there is always a give and take. Whether it be information exchange of a particular interest or love or financial exchange. So I can't imagine, lower entities such as demons would do work for you for free. We are their meals. They like our warmth which they don't have in hell.

Quote:
It'll be interesting to see in the coming decades to see if these entities are still around in our reality, perhaps as our energy shifts to a higher frequency, they will fade away.
They will still be there but if you shift your energy to a higher frequency, you won't be bothered by them. You'll be in a different place then...I think.
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Old 03-10-2014, 09:05 AM   #2536
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Here is another question for you damagedbrainn.

I know you said you haven't tried much sex magick but am I correct in understanding that sex magick doesn't involve demons? Some have talked about kundalini elsewhere in this forum and I've read that entity can enter while you are at it or something.
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Old 03-10-2014, 10:45 AM   #2537
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I am glad that you are looking at magick from healthy POV even though you have 93666 in your username.
My dear Miss Squirrel , I've broken down my user name elsewhere, it means I"m a sweet being of light , let me briefly cover this again.

Oz is my name I use in daily life, what people call me, oz means 'strength' . Also we have Libre oz which was a practical/political summation of the book of the law, so I'm affirming my allegiance with this doctrine.

Also my avatar the Opel insignia looks very much like theta, the first letter of the sacred word Thelema (see picture in post2510 on this thread), also it spells out Oz.

The number 93 is the number of thelema. Remember the new numerology is based on atomic number ... We have 92 naturally occurring elements on earth, so 93 is taking things into a new realm where man exerts his will, even on the elements , and creates more than he was given. 93 is the first man made element.

6 is the (Atomic)number of carbon , the basis of ALL life on Earth.
666 is the highest form of life , man.... Even the bible agrees on this "666 is the number of man".
But the christians think man flawed , has 'original sin'... born evil. This is the big difference ,Thelemites believe man is inherently good , and can live without laws.
Because the christians have controlled things , they've convinced many 666 (man) is bad... not true.
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Old 03-10-2014, 10:52 AM   #2538
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My dear Miss Squirrel , I've broken down my user name elsewhere, it means I"m a sweet being of light , let me briefly cover this again.

Oz is my name I use in daily life, what people call me, oz means 'strength' . Also we have Libre oz which was a practical/political summation of the book of the law, so I'm affirming my allegiance with this doctrine.

Also my avatar the Opel insignia looks very much like theta, the first letter of the sacred word Thelema (see picture in post2510 on this thread), also it spells out Oz.

The number 93 is the number of thelema. Remember the new numerology is based on atomic number ... We have 92 naturally occurring elements on earth, so 93 is taking things into a new realm where man exerts his will, even on the elements , and creates more than he was given. 93 is the first man made element.

6 is the (Atomic)number of carbon , the basis of ALL life on Earth.
666 is the highest form of life , man.... Even the bible agrees on this "666 is the number of man".
But the christians think man flawed , has 'original sin'... born evil. This is the big difference ,Thelemites believe man is inherently good , and can live without laws.
Because the christians have controlled things , they've convinced many 666 (man) is bad... not true.
Oh no, I didn't mean bad. I knew what 93 and 666 were.
666 is carbon as you say but also Therion. It's in the book of law.
What I meant was that even though you have interest in Telemites, you are able to keep your scepticism in balance.
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Old 03-10-2014, 12:05 PM   #2539
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Oh no, I didn't mean bad. I knew what 93 and 666 were.
666 is carbon as you say but also Therion. It's in the book of law.
Yes ...Therion ...crowley often signed himself 'Το Μεγα Θηριον' (the great beast, in Greek)....

Beast is the title carried by the male leader of the religion of Thelema and leader of Holy Thelemic Empire . More correctly, his consort , the 'Scarlet Woman' is absolute leader of both organisations, all directives must by approved by her, although the Beast does have the power to dismiss her and elect a new SW. She does not have reciprocal power in this matter.

In christianity the leader is the pope and we have a long line of popes, pope John the second, pope Francis, pope Paul, etc .
Also in Thelema we have a succession of Beasts (only two so far). the first beast (crowley) , known as 'The Great Beast', and the second , me, called 'The Red Beast'.

What is the significance of this title 'Beast'.

Beast is often translated as 'animal' or 'wild animal' , but this is not technically true since we have terms like beasts of the field...beasts of the air...beasts of the sea.... fish and birds are not animals, so beast really refers to any life form.

By assuming this title 'Beast' a statement is being made , that this leader is allied with all life forms, and has a dream to optimize the environment so that all life expands and flourishes, not just the humans.
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Old 03-10-2014, 01:56 PM   #2540
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Oz, don't you think AC's teaching is a bit out dated now?
I mean, something will stay valid but as you can see in this forum, there are so many new information channelled and shared. For example, AC's time, DNA wasn't even discovered so while he was way ahead of his time by talking about aliens, nothing about double helix etc.
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