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Old 02-10-2014, 03:57 PM   #2501
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It's not Crowley I was referring to.
then, share ... evidence is required for such a claim, or i will be treated as "just more bullshit."
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Old 02-10-2014, 06:42 PM   #2502
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then, share ... evidence is required for such a claim, or i will be treated as "just more bullshit."
I didn't really want to bring into this conversation but since you will be accusing me if I don't post it so here it is.
Let's not discuss it further. Let everyone decide for themselves whether it is all coincidence or the side-effect of magick.

I have no doubt, the guy is a brilliant musician and produced iconic songs and also when you meet him, he is actually a lovely person. I am sorry that he still practices it though.

Quote:
- 1975 Robert had a car accident
- 1976 Keith Howard died
- Keith Relf commited suicide
- A wife of the road manager Richard Cole died
- 1977 Robert's son Karac died with an infection
- A photographer, Jimmy's friend died
- 1980 Drummer John Bonam died
- 2008 Drummer Michael Lee died
I don't believe he meant to harm all these people who were close to him. In fact, he loved JB, he still raves about him. And christ, he needs RP. Without him, there is no LZ. So it's clear that he was not meant to harm these people.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMElEz3I0vo
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Old 02-10-2014, 07:09 PM   #2503
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Again, thanks for your sincerely reply. Even if we are not on the same page, I'm not here to persuade you to be 'good' or anything. It's your life and you'll gonna do whatever you think fit but my purpose here is to get an understanding.

Of course, a knife can be used for both good and bad and it's the intention of the user. I am with you on this one. However, the danger I am talking about is that while a magician may be using the magick for good intention and demons are supposed to obey the master's command, quite often it doesn't end up that way and magicians end up being controlled by demons. To give you an example, the recent magick casted on me, ended up having body scratch marks, psychic attacks and near gas explosion. I don't think that's nice and I wouldn't wish something like that on anyone even if I hate them.
You could say it's the lack of magician's skill or whatever but you've got to understand nature of demons, they are hardly obeying, they'll do what they like and the result (death & tragedies) speaks itself. Too many people who practiced magick ended up seeing loved ones die with tragic accidents and these are not just one off, there are usually a number of.... which overtake the average. I won't name a name here but if you dig....it is well documented.
You give "demons" more credit than they deserve. They are not as powerful as people make them out to be. People make them sound like they are more powerful than humans. They are not. They actually can be commanded and controlled as long as you are without fear and are confident in your will. If you have any doubts about what you're doing or any fear of them, then yes, they will take control. The obvious solution is: Don't do that.

It all stems from a childish idea of duality, of "good vs. evil". Which is an immature absurdity. There's ultimately no such thing.

To reject "demons" is to reject a part of yourself. We all have demons, and at some point, we must take control of them lest they take control of us. Is the Goetia the only means of doing this? Absolutely not. But regardless of what method is used, it must be done in time.

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Old 02-10-2014, 07:17 PM   #2504
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I'm an Austin Osman Spare fan. The crossover between occultist and artist is usually quite interesting as they experiment with ideas like automatic drawing that show the subconscious mind.

Oklahoma is bible belt country, isn't it? Have you encountered much resistance from those types?
Oklahoma is extremely conservative and Christian. However, I haven't encountered much resistance. Fortunately, another aspect of Oklahoma's culture aside from christian conservatism is also to mind your own business, which the people here happily practice except when it comes to politics.

I'm also into Austin Osman Spare, even though Crowley didn't like him much. I've frequently practiced the "sigil magick" that he taught. It's rather quite effective and so simple.
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Old 02-10-2014, 07:19 PM   #2505
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You give "demons" more credit than they deserve. They are not as powerful as people make them out to be. People make them sound like they are more powerful than humans. They are not. They actually can be commanded and controlled as long as you are without fear and are confident in your will. If you have any doubts about what you're doing or any fear of them, then yes, they will take control. The obvious solution is: Don't do that.
Re: credit, that is open for debate. If they can cause mischieves such as accident which could end up as fatal... I think they have the power. Even if it's not fatal, cause harm such as body marks (ok it's not serious BUT), they do have some power to do something. I don't practice black magick summoning demons so I wouldn't know what kind of fear/doubt the magician (the one I was talking about) have.

Quote:
It all stems from a childish idea of duality, of "good vs. evil". Which is an immature absurdity. There's ultimately no such thing.

To reject "demons" is to reject a part of yourself. We all have demons, and at some point, we must take control of them lest they take control of us.
I am not rejecting demons. They exist. My physical scar and realistic event were the evidence. I deal with demons as they come. By doing this, I am not rejecting. I acknowledge their existance but I don't want to be living with them so I send them back to where they came from. And in effect, I am taking control of them which is the path to enlightenment. Demons/satan are the gatekeepers. If you don't pass the test, you won't get through beyond this shithole.

I guess you and I are talking about taking control of demons but slightly in a different context. You are invoking. I'm not.
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Old 02-10-2014, 07:24 PM   #2506
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I didn't really want to bring into this conversation but since you will be accusing me if I don't post it so here it is.
Let's not discuss it further. Let everyone decide for themselves whether it is all coincidence or the side-effect of magick.

I have no doubt, the guy is a brilliant musician and produced iconic songs and also when you meet him, he is actually a lovely person. I am sorry that he still practices it though.


I don't believe he meant to harm all these people who were close to him. In fact, he loved JB, he still raves about him. And christ, he needs RP. Without him, there is no LZ. So it's clear that he was not meant to harm these people.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMElEz3I0vo
grasping for straws.
wow.
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Old 02-10-2014, 07:27 PM   #2507
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“We live together, we act on, and react to, one another; but always and in all circumstances we are by ourselves. The martyrs go hand in hand into the arena; they are crucified alone. Embraced, the lovers desperately try to fuse their insulated ecstasies into a single self-transcendence; in vain. By its very nature every embodied spirit is doomed to suffer and enjoy in solitude. Sensations, feelings, insights, fancies - all these are private and, except through symbols and at second hand, incommunicable. We can pool information about experiences, but never the experiences themselves. From family to nation, every human group is a society of island universes. Most island universes are sufficiently like one another to Permit of inferential understanding or even of mutual empathy or "feeling into." Thus, remembering our own bereavements and humiliations, we can condole with others in analogous circumstances, can put ourselves (always, of course, in a slightly Pickwickian sense) in their places. But in certain cases communication between universes is incomplete or even nonexistent. The mind is its own place, and the Places inhabited by the insane and the exceptionally gifted are so different from the places where ordinary men and women live, that there is little or no common ground of memory to serve as a basis for understanding or fellow feeling. Words are uttered, but fail to enlighten. The things and events to which the symbols refer belong to mutually exclusive realms of experience” ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Doors_of_Perception
http://thedoorsrecordings.blogspot.c...n-england.html
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showp...&postcount=137Then we hear a whistle like a bison's pipe and the carnival immediately begins Gradually mixing rain,Thunder Bullfight Foolball Playground War Penny-arcade Babylon Fading...http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showp...&postcount=742
http://www.henrymakow.com/adolf_hitl...ster_crow.html
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showt...100575&page=27John with the machine, it was suddenly so clear. The terminator, would never stop. It would never leave him, and it would never hurt him, never shout at him, or get drunk and hit him, or say it was too busy to spend time with him. It would always be there. And it would die, to protect him. Of all the would-be fathers who came and went over the years, this thing, this machine, was the only one who measured up. In an insane world, it was the sanest choice... http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showp...&postcount=118

Last edited by lightgiver; 02-10-2014 at 07:31 PM.
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Old 02-10-2014, 07:40 PM   #2508
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I want to address these myself.

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Originally Posted by bikerdruid View Post
aleister crowley is probably the most wrongly vilified man of the last two centuries.
The top ten failed lies about crowley are:

10. Myth: Aleister Crowley was a black magician.
Probably the most common myth about him and the most false. Crowley certainly believed in black magick, and he despised it. He even stated that he found it hard to believe that anyone would be so selfish and stupid as to practice it.

Quote:
9. Myth: Aleister Crowley advocated pedophilia.
Oh the old "pedophile" accusation, a favorite among conspiracy theorists. Simply put, there is absolutely no factual basis for this belief. Often quoted is something Crowley stated about not hiding anything from children, including sexuality; and many have interpreted that to mean "pedophilia" or whatever. He was simply advocating for what today would be called "sex ed". And anyone who would equate that with pedophilia is an alarmist moron.

Quote:
8. Myth: Aleister Crowley died alone in poverty.
He was certainly not alone when he died, though he very well may have been poor. My response to that is, what's wrong with being poor? Crowley actually made it a task not to profit from his teachings. In fact, he regularly ensured that he would LOSE money from his various publications. How is that wrong? Seems like a good thing to me, if not necessarily a smart thing.

Quote:
7. Myth: Aleister Crowley advocated rape.
This is completely absurd. Rape goes against absolutely everything that Crowley taught and believed in. He advocated personal dignity, will, and self-determination. Rape is a clear contradiction to that. There is absolutely NOTHING in any of his writings that comes close to advocating rape.

Quote:
6. Myth: Aleister Crowley was a drug addict and a failure.
"Failure" is a matter of opinion, so I won't bother with that. However, he was actually a drug addict. People often hype that up with no sympathy. But in Crowley's time, drugs like cocaine and heroin were not illegal and were often prescribed by doctors. Crowley often experimented with many drugs, but did not become addicted to most of them. But cocaine and heroin he did have a problem with, and those were drugs that were prescribed to him by doctors as a treatment for his asthma and the pain caused by his dental problems. It's no different than how people today become addicted to prescription pain killers after a doctor prescribes them to them.

Crowley actually wrote a long diary about his experimentation and addiction to drugs called Fountains of Hyacinth, which is quite remarkable. Instead of being shamed, he should be honored for having the bravery to investigate drug addiction, and his Fountains of Hyacinth should be a manual for anyone seeking to understand it.

Quote:
5. Myth: Aleister Crowley worked for the Nazis.
Nonsense. Crowley actually tried to work on the side of Britain against the Nazis, but was rejected. He was actually very patriotic, probably to a fault.

Quote:
4. Myth: Aleister Crowley sacrificed male children:
and three more lies.
Oh yes, this popular myth. I can't blame people too much for believing this as Crowley himself is guilty of perpetuating this myth. I actually wrote a long response to this myth in another thread that I'm currently too lazy to repeat. Needless to say, if you take Crowley at his word, then you must believe that he sacrificed 150 male children in a single year, and if anyone believes that he did that without any legal consequence, despite how despised he was in his time, then that individual is a deluded fool lacking any common sense.
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Old 02-10-2014, 07:51 PM   #2509
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Originally Posted by lightgiver View Post
http://www.henrymakow.com/adolf_hitl...ster_crow.html
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showt...100575&page=27John with the machine, it was suddenly so clear. The terminator, would never stop. It would never leave him, and it would never hurt him, never shout at him, or get drunk and hit him, or say it was too busy to spend time with him. It would always be there. And it would die, to protect him. Of all the would-be fathers who came and went over the years, this thing, this machine, was the only one who measured up. In an insane world, it was the sanest choice... http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showp...&postcount=118
With all due respect, I find your posts to be random nonsense and wish, for once, that you would make a clear and concise point.
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Old 02-10-2014, 07:55 PM   #2510
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Donna Marsh O'Connor Begs Media To Question 911 - YouTube
The number 93 is of great significance in Thelema, a religious philosophy founded by English author and occultist Aleister Crowley in 1904 with the writing of The Book of the Law (also known as Liber AL vel Legis)...The word gimel is related to gemul, which means 'justified repayment', or the giving of reward and punishment...



It is common for Thelemites to greet each other with "93" in person as well as in the opening and closing of written correspondence. This custom derives from Aleister Crowley's guideline that Thelemites should greet each other with the Law of Thelema by saying "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law." Since saying the entire Law can be cumbersome, using 93 has become a kind of shorthand....
Quote:
"i know, on a daily basis, the press covers the event post-9/11 but i feel, frankly, abandoned. if i question anything about the official story i'm called a conspiracy theorist. my daughter was on the 93rd floor of tower two and five minutes after the first plane hit she was on the phone to the park avenue office of regis business international where she worked, in the trade center offices. 4 or 5 months pregnant, depending on if you listen to the family myth or what the medical examiner told me when he looked at the fetal bones.

"they were not safe. but she was almost saved. my daughter's body was one of only about 283 whole and intact bodies. the funeral director--they pulled her out of the rubble on september 24th--the funeral director told me, when they notified us on july 6th and he picked up her body, that she looked exactly as i would have expected her to look. so i asked to see her.

"my daughter was found 10 feet from an alley, whole and intact. she wasn't crushed, she didn't fall. she had injuries--blunt trauma to her head, her neck, her femur. her autopsy report is public record...
The Terminator Movie Trailer - YouTube

Sarah Jeanette Connor is a fictional character from the Terminator films and the television series Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles. She was played by American actress Linda Hamilton in the films and by English actress Lena Headey in the TV series. The character develops greatly over the course of these productions, from a timid victim of the first film to a hardened warrior on the verge of losing touch with her own humanity...In a deleted scene of the episode "The Demon Hand", details of Sarah's childhood are revealed during a session with Dr. Peter Silberman...

The Terminator - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showp...1&postcount=16

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Old 02-10-2014, 07:55 PM   #2511
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Re: credit, that is open for debate. If they can cause mischieves such as accident which could end up as fatal... I think they have the power. Even if it's not fatal, cause harm such as body marks (ok it's not serious BUT), they do have some power to do something. I don't practice black magick summoning demons so I wouldn't know what kind of fear/doubt the magician (the one I was talking about) have.


I am not rejecting demons. They exist. My physical scar and realistic event were the evidence. I deal with demons as they come. By doing this, I am not rejecting. I acknowledge their existance but I don't want to be living with them so I send them back to where they came from. And in effect, I am taking control of them which is the path to enlightenment. Demons/satan are the gatekeepers. If you don't pass the test, you won't get through beyond this shithole.

I guess you and I are talking about taking control of demons but slightly in a different context. You are invoking. I'm not.
Let me put it this way. I've been scratched and "harmed" by dogs, cats, and even insects. But do I view cats, dogs, and insects as more powerful than me, or even of possessing the power to overtake me? Absolutely not.

In the end, a scratch is just a scratch. A cut is just a cut. I've been injured by so many mundane, common things that if that's really the best that a so-called "demon" can do, then I have no reason to really fear them.
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Old 02-10-2014, 08:08 PM   #2512
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Originally Posted by elshaper View Post
Re: credit, that is open for debate. If they can cause mischieves such as accident which could end up as fatal... I think they have the power. Even if it's not fatal, cause harm such as body marks (ok it's not serious BUT), they do have some power to do something. I don't practice black magick summoning demons so I wouldn't know what kind of fear/doubt the magician (the one I was talking about) have.


I am not rejecting demons. They exist. My physical scar and realistic event were the evidence. I deal with demons as they come. By doing this, I am not rejecting. I acknowledge their existance but I don't want to be living with them so I send them back to where they came from. And in effect, I am taking control of them which is the path to enlightenment. Demons/satan are the gatekeepers. If you don't pass the test, you won't get through beyond this shithole.

I guess you and I are talking about taking control of demons but slightly in a different context. You are invoking. I'm not.
Oh, and it's EVOKING, not invoking. Invoking a "demon" is an incredibly stupid thing to do. The difference between the two is that invoking involves internalizing something inside of you, whereas evoking means "conjuring" something outside of you, in the case of the Goetia, into a restricted triangle.
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Old 02-10-2014, 08:18 PM   #2513
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Originally Posted by elshaper View Post
Re: credit, that is open for debate. If they can cause mischieves such as accident which could end up as fatal... I think they have the power. Even if it's not fatal, cause harm such as body marks (ok it's not serious BUT), they do have some power to do something. I don't practice black magick summoning demons so I wouldn't know what kind of fear/doubt the magician (the one I was talking about) have.


I am not rejecting demons. They exist. My physical scar and realistic event were the evidence. I deal with demons as they come. By doing this, I am not rejecting. I acknowledge their existance but I don't want to be living with them so I send them back to where they came from. And in effect, I am taking control of them which is the path to enlightenment. Demons/satan are the gatekeepers. If you don't pass the test, you won't get through beyond this shithole.

I guess you and I are talking about taking control of demons but slightly in a different context. You are invoking. I'm not.
And as far as fatality goes, yes, a demon can do something that could lead to either yours or another's fatality.

But think about all the things that can kill you. Even a virus can kill you. But is that virus more highly evolved or more powerful than you? Because viruses can kill us, should we not seek out to control and conquer them?

The fact that demons can harm us is ALL THE MORE REASON why we should seek to learn to control and command them.

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Old 02-10-2014, 08:19 PM   #2514
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Originally Posted by bikerdruid View Post
grasping for straws.
wow.
whatever...
Others will see it. That's all it matters. Not you.
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Old 02-10-2014, 09:28 PM   #2515
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whatever...
Others will see it. That's all it matters. Not you.
yes, of course.
the lifestyle of early rock stars and their friends was known to kill many.
assuming that demons must be involved is just plain stupid, unless one were speaking metaphorically, which you are not.
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Old 02-10-2014, 10:50 PM   #2516
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And as far as fatality goes, yes, a demon can do something that could lead to either yours or another's fatality.

But think about all the things that can kill you. Even a virus can kill you. But is that virus more highly evolved or more powerful than you? Because viruses can kill us, should we not seek out to control and conquer them?

The fact that demons can harm us is ALL THE MORE REASON why we should seek to learn to control and command them.
Here is an example.
I was looking through 72 Goetic demons and this one says:
Quote:
Malphas accepts willingly and kindly any sacrifice offered to him, but then he will deceive the conjurer.
There are others like this.
So my point is, you cannot learn to control or command them because deceptive behaviour is just the natural part of them. Do you see the danger? You think you can control....to a certain extent yes but not.
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Old 02-10-2014, 11:01 PM   #2517
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Here is an example.
I was looking through 72 Goetic demons and this one says:

Quote:
Malphas accepts willingly and kindly any sacrifice offered to him, but then he will deceive the conjurer.


There are others like this.
So my point is, you cannot learn to control or command them because deceptive behaviour is just the natural part of them. Do you see the danger? You think you can control....to a certain extent yes but not.
what is the context of this line within the greater work?
a single line taken out of the context of thousands of lines, is meaningless.
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Old 02-10-2014, 11:14 PM   #2518
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what is the context of this line within the greater work?
a single line taken out of the context of thousands of lines, is meaningless.
You are wrong again. There are only four lines and not 1000s of lines in the link I posted.
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Old 02-10-2014, 11:24 PM   #2519
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You are wrong again. There are only four lines and not 1000s of lines in the link I posted.
yes, you quoted a quote on wikipedia.
not only out of context, but from a secondary source.
have you no intellectual shame?
wow.

and to use this to give evidence for a stance, is dishonest.
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Old 02-10-2014, 11:25 PM   #2520
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I'm an Austin Osman Spare fan. The crossover between occultist and artist is usually quite interesting as they experiment with ideas like automatic drawing that show the subconscious mind.
I agree his style is very alluring . This first image was on the cover of Man Myth and Magic. This was a 112 part , weekly publication in the UK, which build into a 7 volume bound encyclopedia of magic, which I bought religiously every week from the news agent when I was a 16year old school boy.
This was the 'harry potter ' of the day, a way of encouraging kids to get into this subject.







Latter in life I met someone who had a very similar style to Spare , he had all the indications of being possessed/overshadowed.

I now believe Spare falls into the same category. Someone who derives some of his talent and a lot of his style from the dark forces, demonic, entity possession, whatever you want to call it.

The dark forces get their corrupting , haunting images into the mass mind, the artist gets fame and fortune.
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