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Old 18-02-2013, 07:58 AM   #1
gremlin
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Default poor care in hospitals by 'Stalinist' rules

Now a gag on doctors and nurses: Hundreds being prevented from exposing poor care in hospitals by 'Stalinist' rules

Gary Walker case is just the tip of the iceberg, says health boss
Secret deals to keep former staff quiet made 'up and down the country'
Mike Parker, from the Royal College of Surgeons, said Mr Walker is 'speaking on behalf of many' after breaking gagging order


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz2LEeUVinN


I find it ironic how I probably will get grief for putting this story from the daily mail in a forum that is trying to expose this sort of thing.

Got to love that word IRONY!!

All part of the duailty.
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Old 18-02-2013, 09:16 AM   #2
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let's be straight about this ,
we don't live under Stalin's rules we don't live under a Stalinist society ,
it's capitalist state and society in which this problem has arisen .


one of the most disturbing things about this nhs issue is that the gov is trying to tear the nhs apart ,
at mannagement level it replaced doctors and hospital administrators with corporate ceos ,
it thinks care and compasion can be bought via wage incentives in a private health system it can't it's a vocation .

the Uk gov has an unhealthy relationship with USA gov
it thinks privatization of everything is freedom ,
over the last few years we have seen this is not the case it leads to out of control big buisness in America we see people selling homes for cancer ops or therapy
and big pharma setting the cost of drugs (the nhs buys these drugs , surelytheres cheaper generic versions )

what is happening to the nhs is a systematic destruction of a system that was never designed to make profits but rather put people first ,
to call it Stalinist is so far off the mark its not even on the same page .

Last edited by vorwahr; 18-02-2013 at 09:17 AM.
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Old 18-02-2013, 10:00 AM   #3
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It's my view that the massive size of the NHS makes it ineffective and inefficient. I've had relatives who have been mis-diagnosed and who have died because of it. The self-importance of some NHS staff is staggering.

I think that we live in a corporatist society; sometimes it is right wing/sometimes left wing. The old paradigms no longer operate.

Trying to massively pollute the food chain for the profit motive is too much capitalism, taking huge amounts of council tax from old people or making people pay for state run TV propaganda is too much stalinism.

We have the worse of both worlds.

But even the Daily Mail can be right some of the time.

And it's right about the failure of the NHS and the culture of silence within it. In my opinion.
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Old 18-02-2013, 10:09 AM   #4
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http://m.guardian.co.uk/commentisfre...rld-healthcare


how very stalinist , not .
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Old 18-02-2013, 10:09 AM   #5
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Holby City and Casualty. Poor viewing figures, dreadful scripts. Still on telly.

WHY?

They are Pro-NHS state TV propaganda. Paid for by the masses.

Now if that's not Stalinism I don't know what is.

If we really lived in a capitalist society, we would not have bailed out the ENTIRE banking system with public money.

But we did.

The banks, as profit-making institutions, ought to have been allowed to fail. Now we support them as public institutions - except we can't tell them what to do or how to operate.

Hospitals shouldn't have to make money - but they shouldn't waste it and they shouldn't kill people either.

The whole system, completely bonkers, unworkable and ripe for massive change.
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Old 18-02-2013, 10:11 AM   #6
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Going global and massive is very Stalinist indeed if you ask me. The bigger the better.

Who said Stalin wasn't interested in mass control/influence and destruction?
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Old 18-02-2013, 10:15 AM   #7
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chase and fend off Stalinist policies by supporting private corporate policies ,
lol tlk about the elephant in the room and chasing yer tail .

let's stand against Stalinists in the nhs who are to blame for falling standards in an institution that was and is a global beacon ,
when in fact it's privatisation that's crippling it ,

quite the opposite actually so by ousting Stalinists you pave the way for corporatism .
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Old 18-02-2013, 10:20 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by publiceye View Post
Holby City and Casualty. Poor viewing figures, dreadful scripts. Still on telly.

WHY?

They are Pro-NHS state TV propaganda. Paid for by the masses.

Now if that's not Stalinism I don't know what is.

If we really lived in a capitalist society, we would not have bailed out the ENTIRE banking system with public money.

But we did.

The banks, as profit-making institutions, ought to have been allowed to fail. Now we support them as public institutions - except we can't tell them what to do or how to operate.

Hospitals shouldn't have to make money - but they shouldn't waste it and they shouldn't kill people either.

The whole system, completely bonkers, unworkable and ripe for massive change.
you don't know what is then .

Stalin had state hospitals not franchised hospitals with tv shows in tow .
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Old 18-02-2013, 10:24 AM   #9
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I wouldn't want to fend off Stalinism by supporting corporatism or fractional reserve banking capitalism; neither help the individual at the bottom of the ladder. I'm not in favour of either system to be honest. The groupthink of Stalinism is just as dangerous as the mighty power of the individual who doesn't care about anyone else.

Tony Blair's 'third way' just danced a tight-rope between the two and turned Thatcherism into a sort of global, corporate mess which made inequality far worse.

I don't think we have any argument at all; in fact, we agree that neither ways are the optimal way forward. But as the first poster said, it's the horrible mind-set of duality that would seem to pitch us against one another.

I think there is a right-wing effort to demonise those on benefits at the moment and I am furious about this; I personally claim nothing from the state and do my best to stay away from it as I think it is becoming all powerful and more than a little sinister - but it is the banking system that is the real recipient of state cash at the moment and we are all paying for this in the form of high inflation.

It's a nonsense.

It's exactly this confusion about what is right wing and left wing that keeps an untenable system chugging along and tries to make people like you and I witter on about ideological differences when we in fact agree with each other!
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Old 18-02-2013, 10:27 AM   #10
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I was talking about Stalin's use of state propaganda.

We are doing the same thing, more subtly.

Defending the NHS is if it were some sort of perfect, sacrosanct organisation is what troubles me. It isn't.

I'm not a fan of the mass-murdering Stalin either I'm afraid.
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Old 18-02-2013, 10:28 AM   #11
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Franchised hospitals paid for by the people.

Odd isn't it?

See what I mean?
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Old 18-02-2013, 10:34 AM   #12
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If health care truly were a vocation then the workers in the NHS would work for free.

As it is, they get very good salaries, incredible pensions, generous holiday allowance and preferential rates for insurance - and even special rates in some businesses. (In my local hairdresser, for example, a sign recently said 'special rates for NHS employees')

Have you seen 'sickness' rates in the NHS for example? Lots of them routinely take Monday off because they fancy a long weekend. I'm in favour of a four day week for everyone as it happens, but you cannot expect high salaries and to do little work and for the state to fund it. Who is the state? It is you and I.


Soon, everyone who can work for the government will be working for 'the government' in one way or another and that is unsustainable and undesirable.

1984 here we come
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Old 18-02-2013, 02:35 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by publiceye View Post
Franchised hospitals paid for by the people.

Odd isn't it?

See what I mean?
no , Stalin didn't franchise anything and the goal is to privatise the nhs and fund it privately not from taxpayer funding .

the Stalinist theory is way off the mark , if it were Stalinist it would be brought under stricter state control and no private sector companies would allowed near it .
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Old 18-02-2013, 02:44 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by publiceye View Post
If health care truly were a vocation then the workers in the NHS would work for free.

As it is, they get very good salaries, incredible pensions, generous holiday allowance and preferential rates for insurance - and even special rates in some businesses. (In my local hairdresser, for example, a sign recently said 'special rates for NHS employees')

Have you seen 'sickness' rates in the NHS for example? Lots of them routinely take Monday off because they fancy a long weekend. I'm in favour of a four day week for everyone as it happens, but you cannot expect high salaries and to do little work and for the state to fund it. Who is the state? It is you and I.


Soon, everyone who can work for the government will be working for 'the government' in one way or another and that is unsustainable and undesirable.

1984 here we come
oh behave ,
that's rubbish under funding and longer working hours are the facts
another fact is 20% of staff coming in during holidays to check on patients .

patient care given 2nd place to performance charts
(bit like education )
the goverment is privatizing everything it would privatise itself if it could 1984 my arse
you can't take direction from fictional novels .
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Old 18-02-2013, 05:11 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vorwahr View Post
oh behave ,
that's rubbish under funding and longer working hours are the facts
another fact is 20% of staff coming in during holidays to check on patients .

patient care given 2nd place to performance charts
(bit like education )
the goverment is privatizing everything it would privatise itself if it could 1984 my arse
you can't take direction from fictional novels .
WTF!!! do you know where you are?
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Old 18-02-2013, 10:19 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gremlin View Post
WTF!!! do you know where you are?
what's that supposed to mean ?
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Old 18-02-2013, 11:54 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vorwahr View Post
chase and fend off Stalinist policies by supporting private corporate policies ,
lol tlk about the elephant in the room and chasing yer tail .

let's stand against Stalinists in the nhs who are to blame for falling standards in an institution that was and is a global beacon ,
when in fact it's privatisation that's crippling it ,

quite the opposite actually so by ousting Stalinists you pave the way for corporatism .
We live under a corporate state, big government and big business merging to oppress the public, this is not freemarket Capitalism. Communitarianism is the new model, a Big Society using "common purpose" subversion. Work it out ffs
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Old 19-02-2013, 12:03 AM   #18
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Holby City and Casualty are the biggest pieces of anti-white English propaganda on TV.

Ever noticed how the white English working class characters are always portrayed as violent, racist scum, and the non-white characters are always portrayed as being the victims of white racism?

The doctors and nurses, of course, are portrayed in an entirely heroic light. Perfectly left wing, always make the right judgement, completely dedicated to the patients.

Also, have you noticed how the doctors and nurses always beg patients to stay when they want to discharge themselves or refuse treatment?

That would never happen in a British hospital! If a patient refused treatment, they would just move onto the next patient and send the patient down to reception to sign themselves out!

NHS employers in most cases don't really give a crap about anyone. The whole ethos of the organisation is negative.
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Old 19-02-2013, 12:16 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by publiceye View Post
If health care truly were a vocation then the workers in the NHS would work for free.

As it is, they get very good salaries, incredible pensions, generous holiday allowance and preferential rates for insurance
Many are underpaid & overworked. Holidays compared to what professions?
If they do get a little extra time off, isn't that due to the stressful nature of the job..the psychological effects etc, time to recuperate so they can go back to work & be in fairly good shape to be able to perform properly..

The home carers who are sent to elderly etc homes are paid a pittance, same as care assistants in residential homes.
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Old 19-02-2013, 12:27 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by positive_forward View Post
Many are underpaid & overworked. Holidays compared to what professions?
If they do get a little extra time off, isn't that due to the stressful nature of the job..the psychological effects etc, time to recuperate so they can go back to work & be in fairly good shape to be able to perform properly..

The home carers who are sent to elderly etc homes are paid a pittance, same as care assistants in residential homes.
Rubbish. Doctors in particular are extremely well paid and earn in some cases double what they would in the state health care system of a comparable Western European nation.
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