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Old 10-02-2013, 09:54 AM   #1
ponzi nemesis
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This thread was originally going to be a reply to a thread called In 1999 we entered a simulated reality in which I was trying to show, step-by-step, how all such statements are both 'true' and 'false' at the same time. I guess that's why I called this thread "Reality?"; I could have equally appropriately called it "What is 'truth'?", "There is no 'truth'", or any number of things. Anyway, the original reply got lost in cyberspace after an irksome problem I won't bore you with. Perhaps this was a sign I needed to rework it, improve it and give it its own thread.

I think anyone reading should be able to follow this post and see for themselves what I am trying to convey. If you cannot follow it it's my fault for not explaining well enough. Let me know if you get stuck and I'll try to explain better until you understand me. Of course feel free to disagree, too. I would be genuinely interested to try to understand any other points of view although I find it hard to imagine that anything I am going to say here is anything but self-evident given the empirical data on which it's based.

So, here goes. We'll start with a quick revision of wave/particle duality as demonstrated by the infamous double slit experiment. Probably the best introduction to its findings is contained in this short (5 mins) Dr. Quantum video, itself a clip from the rather useful film "What the Bleep Do We Know?":


Watch it slowly if you need to, pausing to let things sink in, repeating sections, or anything else you need to do to really understand it. Some of you will already be familiar with this stuff and just be able to watch it straight through. The important point to grasp is that elementary particles are demonstrably everywhere they could be, all at once, until they are explicitly observed.

Consider for a moment how everything you experience is elementary particles. For example what you see is photons, what you touch or hear is electrons. And all these elementary particles are in this state of superposition, i.e. everywhere and nowhere, all at once, all the time, as you never explicitly pinpoint the location of any of the electrons or photons you experience. Take as long as you need to to let this idea sink in. Watch the Dr Quantum video again if you don't see what I mean. And if you still don't understand perhaps reply to this and I can try to explain in more detail, another way, or answer any questions you have, before you read any further.

So, if the micro, the elementary particles, are in this state of superposition, even the ones you are to some extent experiencing through touch, sight and sound, hopefully it is obvious that the rest of the particles out there, and everything made from them, must also be in all possible states too. I'm not sure how to explain this part if you cannot immediately see it. If you don't, let me know, and I'll try. But before I leave it let me draw an analogy. Imagine someone hands you a deck of cards that has been shuffled. So, you don't know which card will be on top, which next, et cetera. Well, if you don't know that detail, even though you have the deck, face down, in your hands, you certainly don't know exactly how it was shuffled, exactly which cards were placed where, because if you did you could work out, theoretically, which card was on top, et cetera.

I am suggesting that the shuffled cards are like these elementary particles, and that the way they were shuffled is like the stuff you are not experiencing at all, the background to what you are experiencing. Perhaps you can see where I'm going with this. Let's return to the thread which inspired me to start this one, i.e. the one suggesting that in 1999 we entered a simulated reality. You can imagine such a simulated reality as being like the one in the film The Matrix although that's a bit scary; let's keep this light and consider this clip (4 mins) from the Red Dwarf episode with the fitting title "Back to Reality":


Like the details of the shuffling process clearly being in all possible states at once given that the cards themselves are, the details of the process serving up what we are experiencing must also be in all possible states at once, including being a game (as in the Red Dwarf clip), something sinister (as in The Matrix) or even a dream. It is this final possibility I now want to focus on. Hopefully some of you reading will have seen the film Inception. If not you can find it on torrent sites. It involves dreams within dreams, with some of the characters at each level knowing it's a dream and others being seemingly unaware, mistaking what they are experiencing for 'reality'.

There are a couple of scenes that come to mind. In one a character called Cobb, played by Leonardo DiCaprio, is pointing out how strange things are to another character so he'll realise it's a dream. In another Cobb's wife Mal is trying to convince him that what he thinks of as 'reality' is, in fact, just the same as the various levels of dream states. She says:

Quote:
No creeping doubts? Not feeling persecuted, Dom? Chased around the globe......by anonymous corporations and police forces......the way the projections persecute the dreamer? Admit it. You don't believe in one reality anymore. So choose. Choose to be here. Choose me.
I can't find a video clip for this but you can hear it here. You can also find the whole script here; if you want to find the first scene I mentioned search for "Rod Green from Marketing".

Perhaps everyone reading will relate somewhat to what Mal is saying there. You have to admit that the world seems very strange, arguably absurd, doesn't it? If not I wonder how you happen to be reading a post on the David Icke forum; look at the top of the page, it says "exposing the dreamworld we believe to be real"; have you never wondered why that text is there?

I think the simplest explanation is that this is a lucid dream. Synchronicities are a clue to the fact that our unconscious mind, the collective unconscious Jung talks of if you like, is driving things. You will have your own examples which confirm this for you. However if you want to see some indications of this from a scientific perspective I suggest watching these two videos (16 mins & 18 mins):


To summarise, there is no 'truth' out there. All there is is what you are experiencing, and this experience is just like a lucid dream, driven by your unconscious mind. You'll find you can learn to control it if you want to; remember energy flows where attention goes and you'll not go far wrong. You might also find another thread I started, 5d, helps you to understand these points too.
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Old 12-02-2013, 08:49 AM   #2
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Great post
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Old 12-02-2013, 11:18 AM   #3
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Wow, when I read it, it felt as u were talking only and directley to me. Like it was ment just for me. Strange....
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Old 12-02-2013, 03:09 PM   #4
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Great post
Thanks

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Wow, when I read it, it felt as u were talking only and directley to me. Like it was ment just for me. Strange....
Well, interesting that you say that. When I think about this stuff I become very much aware that all consciousness is all the same, just in parallel universes if you want to think of it from a many worlds* perspective, in which the consciousness happened to incarnate here or there, in 'you' or in 'me', so I write as though I am writing to a version of myself that might be interested in hearing what I have to say.

You can actually do this with respect to yourself in the past, too. Think of a time when you felt upset, alone, depressed or similar and try to 'remote view' yourself and tell yourself that whatever it was that you were troubled by doesn't really matter, that everything will be OK; it's quite effective as a 'therapy' for past trauma.

You may also find that, if you connect with yourself in this way, you'll notice synchronicity increasing. I once tried unifying my past and present in this way for a while, sending love to myself at various times in the past, then tried to hold onto the timelessness of this. I then decided to do an experiment. I did something like a Ganzfeld experiment**, bringing the focus onto myself in the recent past. "Heads, heads, tails, heads" popped into my mind, so I tossed a coin four times; heads, heads, tails, heads; it seemed that as I watched the coin coming up with the results I'd just had come to me I was simultaneously sending the information back to myself a few minutes in the past.

* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Many-worlds_interpretation
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Old 13-02-2013, 02:20 PM   #5
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Some great stuff in this thread...!

I recently started to throw myself into the Holographic Universe thing, just trying to get my head around it all. It actually makes sense....
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Old 13-02-2013, 03:23 PM   #6
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Every film such as Truman Show/Saw/and every fuckin film you know are simply used for the simulation.
Jim Carrey is dead of course.


It seems I am programmed to figure out the purpose of life....hahaha.


People DREAM on to see me figure out the purpose of lyfeeeee.


FACT

&

The hardest part is that you are in a maze all by yourself.

......I got dreamers in a different angle right now
who believe the reality they are in is
real
but at the same time I have them fucked in this dream-reality so we all stuck inside the cave together hahaha.

It is very hard for the people to realize the unusual coinicidental coordinates of life since we all grew to BELIEVE a life that was "Real".....

In a real life,we all want to do the real life reality....but since I realize that everything is a dreamlike show...then fuck it
dream on my people.

<3
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Old 07-03-2013, 03:30 PM   #7
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Some great stuff in this thread...!

I recently started to throw myself into the Holographic Universe thing, just trying to get my head around it all. It actually makes sense....
I find it quite bizarre how, on one level, I know all this stuff is true. But most of the time I seem to forget it. The world seems to have a habit of coming up with stuff to absorb me, to make me take things seriously. For example, for the past few days my emotions have all been in a whirl after I read this story:

http://truthbarrier.com/2013/02/28/t...artinez-nagel/

It really hit me. I felt that we are all responsible for not doing enough to 'wake people up'. I won't go into all the details but it's as though however much I manage to transcend things the world comes back and sucks me into the drama of it all. However this has the effect that, when I next contemplate things again at this level, it is even more apparent that it's all just our collective unconscious playing out.

I'm not sure why I put 'just' in that sentence but decided to leave it there. I guess it's because the implication is that none of it is 'real' because we're all figments of our collective imagination, all in effect no more real than characters in a dream, and somehow this seems less than it all being external...

Is any of this making sense to anyone else? Genuine question, I am curious; yet I realise that by asking I am forgetting again whatever it is that I fundamentally know about this experience because I am wondering what you make of this as though you were external, i.e. I have forgotten again that any such question is silly, like asking myself if I understand what I am saying, do you see what I mean? (there I go again!)
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Old 07-03-2013, 05:24 PM   #8
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I like the Bashar idea that you are projecting your own reality all the time, and it simply takes the form of your current strongest beliefs.

If you can know that you are eternal, and also that your dreams must come true, then you can play with the part in between those two knowings, and drop any baggage and false beliefs that you have picked up.

Your final mantra should be 'I'm creating my own reality because it's unconditionally easy', anything more than that will act as a drag or lag to the manifestation process. You have to allow it to be easy.

You have to get to the stage of knowing that reality creation must be true, and that in every moment you shift based on your beingness and beliefs that you are projecting.

When you think about this for long enough, you conclude that creating your own reality is the only thing that makes sense, but the change has to be on a knowing level, and the auto-pilot background level of your being. Not just some 5 minute exercise where you sigh and give up, that's just a surface level thing.

Bashar has a talk called 'Slipstream', it's one of the better ones.

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Old 07-03-2013, 06:13 PM   #9
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I also see it is true , it seems to me that nothing is truly real , even the most worrying thing is there because i believe its that way , after reading about beliefs i start practcing , and seeing all types of strange things . my rational thinking through always want a explanation to things , but when you stop the noise , and relax , theses things increase and you see ...to me is fun , not a bad thing , of course , if i believe is bad , then , this will be true...

Its a matter of unlearning shit , like religion etc..
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Old 07-03-2013, 06:15 PM   #10
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Let's say you became a monk and decided to sit in a cave until you figure out reality.

You quickly come to realize that there are only 3 things that you have control over: Emotion, Will, and Imagination Then you realize that these things all work together, the Emotion drives the Will, and the Will drives the Imagination.

You have an Emotional need and you Will it to happen, and then the Will uses the Imagination to make it happen.

But what creates the Emotion initially? It's your experience of being in 'reality' and how you wish to play with it.

So the illusion of being in a reality, is really only to create the charge and the context to then change and play with it. It's like going into a room where everything is made of clay, eventually you want to take the clay and re-shape it, and mould it yourself now. but you initially had to have the context of being in the clay room, and to learn the textile and density qualities of it before you would even have the desire to re-shape it.

If you were just a ghost and you had no experience of the density of reality, you would have no desire to re-shape it because you have no experience with it. So when you stand in front of a brick wall and you try to walk through it, don't get angry about it, but just thank the wall for teaching you the experience of density, and substance. Once you stop getting mad at the illusion of density, you learn that it is only there to give you the experience of what density is, so that you can play with it and enjoy it later.
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Old 08-03-2013, 01:46 AM   #11
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I like the Bashar idea that you are projecting your own reality all the time, and it simply takes the form of your current strongest beliefs.

If you can know that you are eternal, and also that your dreams must come true, then you can play with the part in between those two knowings, and drop any baggage and false beliefs that you have picked up.

Your final mantra should be 'I'm creating my own reality because it's unconditionally easy', anything more than that will act as a drag or lag to the manifestation process. You have to allow it to be easy.

You have to get to the stage of knowing that reality creation must be true, and that in every moment you shift based on your beingness and beliefs that you are projecting.

When you think about this for long enough, you conclude that creating your own reality is the only thing that makes sense, but the change has to be on a knowing level, and the auto-pilot background level of your being. Not just some 5 minute exercise where you sigh and give up, that's just a surface level thing.

Bashar has a talk called 'Slipstream', it's one of the better ones.
Found it here; watching it now, thanks
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Old 09-03-2013, 12:21 AM   #12
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Reality is what you taste and touch and so on in my opinion.
Thoughts reflect reality, specifically the thinker thinking them.
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Old 09-03-2013, 02:08 AM   #13
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Reality is what you taste and touch and so on in my opinion.
Thoughts reflect reality, specifically the thinker thinking them.
OK let's take that quite literally for a moment. Although you may have seen the events of 9/11 on television, and that 'seeing' could be included along with the 'tasting' and 'touching' making the events of 9/11 on television part of 'reality', what if it was all smoke and mirrors?

Do you see what I mean? "Reality is what you taste and touch and so on" makes the images you saw on TV 'real', but says nothing about what might have been going on to create those images. It could all have unfolded as described (seems unlikely but just about possible), it could all have been CGI (ditto); however by your definition the TV images are 'reality', the actual events of the day not (unless you were there but I guess you weren't either!).

I think it's more useful to describe the experience as real. I had the experience of seeing some 'planes hit some buildings, that was real. However the story behind those images would seem to be in a state of superposition. I wasn't there, much points at cover-up and/or fakery, so absent a way to ascertain with any certainty what actually happened*, we have no 'reality' to speak of, or multiple 'realities' perhaps if you prefer to see it that way. Plato's cave comes to mind:


* I am not sure it is ever useful to use the phrase 'what actually happened'; do we ever know? I have a memory of seeing images of 'planes hitting buildings but what if I wake up at some point and realise this has all been a dream? Can we really say that I actually saw an image of 'planes hitting buildings? I suppose I will still have had the experience of seeing the image, this is all that we can be sure of, the experience we recall having, and even this recollection may change. Consequently 'what actually happened' is perhaps a rather ridiculous concept and absence of 'a way to ascertain with any certainty what actually happened' a permanent state of affairs in all situations.
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Old 09-03-2013, 02:23 AM   #14
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What if...(just a thought)

What if the double split experiment was the worlds greatest ever hoax?

Just to keep us all confused about reality. Uncertain and thus malleable?

This world is not real. An illusion like Einstein said, persistent.
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Old 09-03-2013, 02:37 AM   #15
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by your definition the TV images are 'reality', the actual events of the day
not so, in reality television is a technological device created by man to provide flashing and flickering images for his entertainment, television footage is collected various ways, for various reasons, none of them are a direct perception or experience of reality, each individual television broadcasts different versions of "reality"
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Old 09-03-2013, 02:42 AM   #16
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What if...The TV is real and we are not?
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Old 09-03-2013, 02:44 AM   #17
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what if I am actually a goldfish telepathically controlling your stomach bacteria which are using human beings as a host to get off planet and colonise space?
what if is a tiresome game in my experience.
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Old 09-03-2013, 02:59 AM   #18
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Perhaps science is a very complex game created only to distract us and keep us in the analytical mindset so that we neglect our higher impulses and so stay asleep to the truth that we are so numbed to now that we couldn't understand or believe.
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Old 09-03-2013, 03:01 AM   #19
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What if...(just a thought)

What if the double split experiment was the worlds greatest ever hoax?

Just to keep us all confused about reality. Uncertain and thus malleable?

This world is not real. An illusion like Einstein said, persistent.
It's pretty easy to do. I did it at school, or at least I have the memory of experience of doing it at school, which is all I can say with any certainty. Here's a video of a guy doing it with a big cardboard box at the beach:


That said, one can imagine a situation where, e.g. this is in fact a simulation, let's say a game like in the Red Dwarf clip I included in my opening post above. Now, from our perspective there are these 'many worlds', all the super-imposed possibilities that the quantum stuff suggests are all there at once, but...

What if, in the world we find ourselves when the game ends, there is no interference pattern with the double slit experiment, i.e. there is no superposition? That's an interesting thought experiment. I guess I can say that I am sure there is no certainty, unless it turns out that this was all a dream, a game or some other simulation which seemed real, and that the quantum stuff was in fact all fake.

So, to summarise, there might be a fixed reality, but if there is then what we are experiencing here is a simulation, so we have no idea what it is. The evidence suggests that in this experience we are having we can influence what we experience by what we focus on, as described in the Reality and the Extended Mind videos I included in that opening post, and that given these influences seem to apply to both things that 'happened' in the past and thing that haven't 'happened' yet it seems clear that nothing is fixed at all, which is why I put 'happened' in quotes like that...

So, to borrow a legal phrase, to all intents and purposes this is in effect a dream, and everything that seems external is, in fact, the product of the subconscious/unconscious mind. You could say 'game' instead of 'dream' there but if it is a game we seem to be able to steer it not only directly and by what we think about consciously, but also with the subconscious/unconscious mind too*, so we might as well describe it as a dream whatever it really is, if, indeed 'whatever it really is' is, in fact, a 'fixed' thing...

Here's a thought, if we had the experience of 'waking up' to a world where the double slit experiment was fake, how could we possibly know that that was 'reality'; we might just be having a dream!

So, perhaps I can summarise. This is an experience with no fixed, external reality. The law of attraction applies in an energy flows where attention goes sense. We may benefit from trying to bear this in mind and rather than worrying about the way things seem try to use our imaginations to envisage where we want to go.

I think that's it.

* I've had countless synchronicities where, retrospectively, it has been clear to me that what was in my subconscious/unconscious mind was driving the experience. They seem statistically significant to me. Most are quite personal and involved so I won't go into it all here but I expect others have examples too.
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Old 09-03-2013, 03:10 AM   #20
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Excellent! Ponzi Nemesis! Lets start dreaming a better world!

"I'll let you be in my dream if I can be in yours" Bob Dylan
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