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Old 01-07-2012, 11:17 PM   #41
lightgiver
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Arrow Pecking Order World /POW for short


Every flock establishes a pecking order. This clip shows how chickens communicate with one another to maintain this pecking order which means when there's food around, they don't have to fight...

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Genetic modification involves the insertion or deletion of genes. When genes are inserted, they usually come from a different species, which is a form of horizontal gene transfer.
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Originally Posted by dr steam View Post




Of course not as you sure know it occurs for example in all kinds of religions and Cults as well as in military, royal houses, nobility, intelligence and criminal groups like the Mafia and bikers(whose power structure is very similar to Freemasonry) with their war Ministers and presidents, and not at least in large corporations especially multinational corporations, and I wonder if there is not a few Freemasons in all the above-mentioned...



The original commandments are:

Whatever goes upon two legs is an enemy.
Whatever goes upon four legs, or has wings, is a friend.
No animal shall wear clothes.
No animal shall sleep in a bed.
No animal shall drink alcohol.
No animal shall kill any other animal.
All animals are equal.

Eventually these are replaced with the maxims, "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others", and "Four legs good, two legs better!" as the pigs become more human. This is an ironic twist to the original purpose of the Seven Commandments, which were supposed to keep order within Animal Farm by uniting the animals together against the humans, and by prevent animals from following the humans' evil habits. Through the revision of the commandments, Orwell(Eric Arthur Blair) demonstrates how simply political dogma can be turned into malleable propaganda...


http://www.naturalnews.com/035105_Bi..._eugenics.html
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=191648

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Old 02-07-2012, 04:39 AM   #42
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So Freemasonry follows the following pyramidal structure:

and this one

or perhaps this one:


Here is a good question. Is there any large organization in the world that does not have a pyramid structure?
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Old 02-07-2012, 05:25 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by offramp View Post
So Freemasonry follows the following pyramidal structure:

and this one

or perhaps this one:


Here is a good question. Is there any large organization in the world that does not have a pyramid structure?
So true...hahaha! Even the Secret Esoteric Schools of the Mysteries had a pyramid structure, from the neophytes to the learned elders! So much for the pyramid structure argument. This just blew it out of the water.
Freemason society is quite similar in many respects to the Mystery Schools, I think. Indeed, it has it's roots in the Mystery Schools.
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Old 02-07-2012, 01:45 PM   #44
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How does that help you in saying that masonry does not makes social elites of the social ruling class. What your doing here is confirming my point.
You're dodging my question.

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Originally Posted by pepsi78 View Post
Isn't masonry adopting good normal people to better them even more ?

Even more are you saying normal people that join the masonic lodge are mediocre ?
I would say that good men trying to constantly better themselves are in a constant state of betterment thus would not be mediocre. Mediocrity comes from being satisfied with less than you could achieve. One should always strive for betterment.

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Originally Posted by pepsi78 View Post
So let me get this straight, you are in a mediocre state before joining the masonry as a normal human being and you must get better by progressing in masonry. That is your answer fella.
Well now you're trying to put words into my mouth. I would say that my previous paragraph of one being in a state of betterment is not mediocre is not exclusive to Freemasonry. Anyone can always achieve betterment through whatever means. Freemasonry is just one pathway.

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I did not know that normal=mediocre. Thanks for enlighting us all.
Well, technically:
  • Mediocre: Of only moderate or average quality
  • Normal: The usual, average, or typical state or condition
  • Moderate: Average in amount, intensity, quality, or degree

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Originally Posted by pepsi78 View Post
You just admited with this one that masonry is a tool for making elitists to rule over the social class.
I never admitted that. I said Freemasonry is about betterment. That doesn't necessarily mean over the social class. You're making illogical assumptions. It's quite frightening how irrational you are.

What I was asking if you thought that the best qualified should lead or not?

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These predicates are usually only negative concepts in elite circles and in the U.S.Generally where they unfortunately have misunderstood its meaning...
I understand the common misconception of political and economic ideologies. I myself have taken a class on contemporary political ideologies from a Marxist. I myself am a staunch liberatarian with classical liberal ideals. I understand the differences between all the "ism's" and that in today's world socialist is seen as some demon.

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Originally Posted by lightgiver View Post
The original commandments are:
A great book.
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Old 02-07-2012, 05:19 PM   #45
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Default Flat structure with circular shape



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Originally Posted by offramp View Post
Here is a good question. Is there any large organization in the world that does not have a pyramid structure?

Before I answer your "good question" as you put it I might ask you a question for a variety...

Is a person by definition automatically an anti-Freemason if this is critical for elements or as a whole regarding Freemasonry ?.As a freethinker who ask critical questions about everything I have often seen that when one asks critical questions to the 3 Abrahamic religions,you are automatically been call satanic and when asking critical questions about New Age/Theosophy then you are been stamped as fundamental religious and so on. I have even experienced being called a Zionists because I did not agree with some Neo Nazi statements in this forum.That just confirms for me that all those Believe systems is not suitable for a free thinking brain...

Personally I think that these predicates says a lot more about the sender than the receiver...
And such gatekeeper Rhetoric who acts with such a rhetorical defens position is impossible to take seriously...

And by the way the claim often heard that Freemasonry should not be a religion stands in contrast to the requirement for admission is that you must belief in some kind of a god or creator and which could also indicate by the way that the candidate is open to a possible manipulation

pyramid scheme


A pyramid scheme is a non-sustainable business model that involves promising participants payment or services, primarily for enrolling other people into the scheme, rather than supplying any real investment or sale of products or services to the public





The answer

The answer to your "good question" is simply Yes I would say so and it is quite obviously possible to have systems which is not necessarily formed in a pyramid shape structure a flat structure with circular shape for instance ...



What Ants Can Teach Us About Leadership

200 billion more ants than humans cant be wrong...

There are thousands of ant species out there representing a gigantic population estimated at around one quadrillion ants. That’s 200 billion more ants than humans. These ants live in colonies, each colony consisting anywhere from a few dozen to a few million ants. To help us relate ants to humans, we can view these colonies as corporations, countries, religious groups, or any other communities, all operating with a purpose that unites people.

Ants do have a purpose – to survive. To do that, they are preprogrammed with instincts and are taught certain behaviors, such as building, fighting, and protecting. Each ant in a colony has a job: give birth, bring food, build shelter, care for the babies, fight, etc. Depending on the species, there may be anywhere from one to a dozen jobs in each colony. Each ant is assigned a job, but, surprisingly to humans, these jobs are not assigned by managers. In fact, ants don’t have managers, leaders, or anyone telling them what to do. They just follow what’s natural to them.

Let me repeat: Ants follow what’s natural to them. Their work is highly optimized. They waste no time. They sleep, eat, and work. They don’t complain. They just do what they are supposed to do. If they see an obstacle, they overcome it or adapt to the new environment. They are great at adaptation. They are great at learning. They don’t fight change. Change is embedded in their brains.


So here you go offramp and by the way there are no universal principles which are subject to this pyramid structure, one could mention the principle of synchronism or the Universal law of moral as an example but of course it's subjective whether such principles exist for some but it is indisputably not nature, human or animal-made and this is perhaps worth noting and possibly very interesting...

The classic image metaphor that says that a scalpel can be used both to kill and save lives in the same way as knowledge especially hidden can be used both to inform and to manipulate Than I think in that way I have indicated what might be problematic with a pyramid structure which incidentally also easily provide fertile ground for corruption...

For example, by which I mean a theoretical example, one could imagine that if an organization that has a hidden system of a kind of knowledge and with a approach which could look at one way, and once you move up in the hierarchy, then this picture slowly changed perhaps even to the diametric opposite of the starting point, then there might be a very thin dividing line between communicating knowledge for personal enhancement and manipulation

For a true philosophic freethinker there is no authority that automatically is a truth but it is the truth and nothing but the truth that is the Authority...



Predictability and the reality of levels

As a philosophical concept, the development has been determined as the genesis of higher grades in a cyclic movement, the relationship between process exit and finish quality is not merely expressing a "second" or a "new" quality but just a "higher" quality determined by the final quality satisfy the system functions qualitatively better and quantitatively more extensive than the output quality.

In the cyclic motion quality cover development opportunity exists in a field of possibilities, which also offers other options including the possibility of stagnation and regression. For the same reason exists evolution always a trend toward higher development.

In relation to the dialectic general laws involve the provision of a process development, process objective dialectical contradictions can be determined as development source, the development direction and shape through the negation of dialectical negation can be determined as a unit of slutkvalitetens apparently returning to its original quality and slutkvalitetens qualitatively better and more extensive quantitative performance of the system functions in comparison with the output quality. Any development expresses a cyclic motion and without a cyclic constitution is measurable basis for comparison of process provision in the higher development is not established...




ksigmason:
"I understand the common misconception of political and economic ideologies. I myself have taken a class on contemporary political ideologies from a Marxist. I myself am a staunch liberatarian with classical liberal ideals. I understand the differences between all the "ism's" and that in today's world socialist is seen as some demon."

I think it is positive that there are areas where we can see things much the same as here in the mistaken demonization of the concept of socialist everything is not about the racist Pike after all and I agree that there are both good and bad Freemasons (but the good has not quite discovered what it's all about) and overall this does not alter my critical views on various principles of Freemasonry as an organization and Religion...

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Old 02-07-2012, 05:44 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by offramp View Post

Here is a good question. Is there any large organization in the world that does not have a pyramid structure?
Hail you, O Ostrich standing on the shore of the Winding Stream!


open the way for Unas, that he may pass! The Mesopotamians built the earliest pyramidal structures, called ziggurats. In ancient times, these were brightly painted. Since they were constructed of sun-dried mud-brick, little remains of them. Ziggurats were built by the Sumerians, Babylonians, Elamites, Akkadians, and Assyrians for local religions. Each ziggurat was part of a temple complex which included other buildings. The precursors of the ziggurat were raised platforms that date from the Ubaid period during the fourth millennium BC.


Precursor or Precursors may refer to...A word meaning predecessor..."Precursor" is a controversial prehistoric bird genus from the Early Eocene. It was established based on fossils found in England, e.g. in the famous London Clay deposits.



Earthquake precursor, a diagnostic phenomenon that can occur before an earthquake...Beautiful are the cult places of Unas...Perfect are the places of Unas..


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predecessor#Direction
http://egyptphoto.ncf.ca/Pyramid%20of%20Unas.htm

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Old 02-07-2012, 07:59 PM   #47
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I never admitted that. I said Freemasonry is about betterment. That doesn't necessarily mean over the social class. You're making illogical assumptions. It's quite frightening how irrational you are
Not at all, it's what it is, since masonry is a social club, bettering in the social departament, of course the secret social class as in "secret society"

It's what masonry does, makes elites to rule over the social class. It's really the same with aristocracy, masonry is a aristocracy in a pyramidal form.

It's why you say to better, then you think you are better than everyone else, that you deserve to rule. Since "everyone is in the dark" before becoming masons, isn't that part of your masonic initiation ritual for the new coming members.

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Aristocracy (Greek ἀριστοκρατία aristokratía, from ἄριστος aristos "excellent," and κράτος kratos "power"), is a form of government in which a few elite citizens rule.[1] The term derives from the Greek aristokratia, meaning "rule of the best".[2] In origin in Ancient Greece, it was conceived of as rule by the best qualified citizens, and contrasted with monarchy. In later times, aristocracy was usually seen as rule by a privileged group (the aristocratic class), and contrasted with democracy.[1]
It's what the royal are, and it's what your brotherhood is. A bunch of people that think they are better fitted to rule over all.


Quote:
Well now you're trying to put words into my mouth. I would say that my previous paragraph of one being in a state of betterment is not mediocre is not exclusive to Freemasonry.
your masonic initiation ritual says it all, standing outside the door in the dark or the part with being blind folded. Then something is said along the line with "a canditate in the state of darkness" is added while the new initiate participates in the ritual. The new member is mediocre (normal) in the dark and awaits to climb up the latter towards elitism(betterment) in the social departament.

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Old 02-07-2012, 09:14 PM   #48
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Nice one, who exactly is the widow.

I'll associate your pick with:
http://shipofthewest.com/Whore_of_Babylon.html


Queen prostitute....

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Old 03-07-2012, 12:49 AM   #49
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It's what masonry does, makes elites to rule over the social class. It's really the same with aristocracy, masonry is a aristocracy in a pyramidal form.
No. That's what you want it to be doing to demonize. It makes better men, how they better themselves is up to them. Again, people would take you more serious if you could back up anything you've said with credible and accurate sources.

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Originally Posted by pepsi78 View Post
It's why you say to better, then you think you are better than everyone else, that you deserve to rule.
Again, you're putting words in our mouths. We don't say that we're better than non-Masons. Betterment doesn't necessarily make one immediately superior to everyone else.

Again, you're jumping to conclusions in a very illogical manner.

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Originally Posted by pepsi78 View Post
It's what the royal are, and it's what your brotherhood is. A bunch of people that think they are better fitted to rule over all.
Nowhere have we ever said this. You're lying and you know it. Shame on you.
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Old 03-07-2012, 01:03 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by pepsi78 View Post

Nice one, who exactly is the widow.

I'll associate your pick with:
http://shipofthewest.com/Whore_of_Babylon.html


Queen prostitute....
You do realise that these Masons posting on here are not Freemasons...


In 1 Kings 7:13–14, Hiram is described as the son of a widow from the tribe of Naphtali who was the son of a Tyrian bronze worker, sent for by Solomon to cast the bronze furnishings and ornate decorations for the new temple. From this reference, Freemasons often refer to Hiram (with the added Abiff) as "the widow's son." Hiram cast these bronzes in clay ground in the plain of the Jordan between Succoth and Zarethan/Zeredathah (1 Kings 7:46-47).



William Windsor (known as Billy), a goat in the military, was a lance corporal in the 1st Battalion, the Royal Welsh, an infantry battalion of the British Army. He served as a lance corporal from 2001 until 2009, except for a three-month period in 2006 when he was demoted to fusilier, after inappropriate behaviour during the Queen's Official Birthday celebrations while deployed on active duty with the battalion on Cyprus. He retired to Whipsnade Zoo in May 2009.

The royal goat herd was originally obtained from Mohammad Shah Qajar, Shah of Persia from 1834–1848, when he presented them to Queen Victoria as a gift in 1837 upon her accession to the throne.


Billy, a Kashmir goat, is descended from the same royal bloodline as the original herd, but was not selected from the wild population; he was born in Whipsnade Zoo. He was presented to the regiment by Queen Elizabeth II in 2001. The tradition is not new: since 1844, the British monarchy has presented an unbroken series of Kashmir goats to the Royal Welch Fusiliers from the Crown's own royal herd


http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showt...=48933&page=12

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showp...6&postcount=43

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Old 03-07-2012, 06:36 AM   #51
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Again, you're putting words in our mouths. We don't say that we're better than non-Masons. Betterment doesn't necessarily make one immediately superior to everyone else.
Masonry is a social order , it's what the social order is, society. Since masons have custom gestures, masonic dressing like aprons and so on, strict rules to obide by. Masonry is like a bee hive, a bee hive is a social structure part of a social collective. It's what masons become better at , elites of society.
Everything including mystic arts and crafts like the kabalah incorporated into masonry is cultural, social but in a hidden way. It's why masonry has been labaled a secret society. Rituals practiced are of a social order.

Where there is order there is the social aspect, the rule of law and order makes up the society since society follows these rules and guides by them, it's what society is made up of.


Of course masonry in reality only produces elite pshychopats, like other similar institutions. Then of course the world is ran by these people. It's why the world is in this mess because people with this kind of mentality keep ruling it. Not to mention that the society we live in is flawed.

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Old 03-07-2012, 07:30 AM   #52
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Masonry is a social order , it's what the social order is, society. Since masons have custom gestures, masonic dressing like aprons and so on, strict rules to obide by. Masonry is like a bee hive, a bee hive is a social structure part of a social collective. It's what masons become better at , elites of society.
Everything including mystic arts and crafts like the kabalah incorporated into masonry is cultural, social but in a hidden way. It's why masonry has been labaled a secret society. Rituals practiced are of a social order.

Where there is order there is the social aspect, the rule of law and order makes up the society since society follows these rules and guides by them, it's what society is made up of.


Of course masonry in reality only produces elite pshychopats, like other similar institutions. Then of course the world is ran by these people. It's why the world is in this mess because people with this kind of mentality keep ruling it. Not to mention that the society we live in is flawed.
That's right. Blame it all on the Freemasons. You have something personal against them or something? Masonry derives it's teachings from the Mystery Schools of old. I may not know much about Masonry, but I'm going to guess I know more than you do about them. All you can do is preach some kind of hate. The pyramid structure for organization has existed since and maybe even before Egypt. In the Mystery Schools of Egypt, there was a Pyramid hierarchy, from the neophyte to the wise elder. The wise elders would have been few, while the lower initiates would have been many. Also, power would have been delegated according to wisdom. The higher in the hierarchy, the more power. Power was given to those who could use it for the good, without thought of greed. Only those worthy of the Mysteries would excel in rank. The Mysteries are not for the profane to possess, the profane being the one's who have not learnt proper wisdom of any kind. You are one of the profane, I am sorry to say, because you have not the wisdom to truly understand the Mysteries. Myself, I am not yet truly worthy of the Mysteries because I am unlearned, unwise and young. It takes years to truly understand the Mysteries and Know them in the Spirit.

Shalom.
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Old 03-07-2012, 07:34 AM   #53
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No. That's what you want it to be doing to demonize. It makes better men, how they better themselves is up to them. Again, people would take you more serious if you could back up anything you've said with credible and accurate sources.


Again, you're putting words in our mouths. We don't say that we're better than non-Masons. Betterment doesn't necessarily make one immediately superior to everyone else.

Again, you're jumping to conclusions in a very illogical manner.


Nowhere have we ever said this. You're lying and you know it. Shame on you.
He is a fool. Unworthy of the Mysteries. He hasn't the wisdom to even judge one of the successor organizations of the Mysteries. He is too...obstinate in his views. I thought Freemasonry was bad too...once. I freely admit this. Now, I start to see the wisdom that the Mystery Schools can provide, Freemasonry being one of the modern Mystery Schools.
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Old 03-07-2012, 10:12 AM   #54
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Why are most royal houses and nobles around the world smeared in with Freemasonry if Freemasonry was not an elitist project and how many of them are simple low-graded gatekeepers like most of them who posts here on this forum ...


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Old 03-07-2012, 12:00 PM   #55
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Default The Scarlet Pimp...

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Nice one, who exactly is the widow.
I'll associate your pick with:
A few more associations...








The Scarlet Pimp

The Scarlet Pimpernel is set in 1792, during the early stages of the French Revolution. Marguerite St. Just, a beautiful French actress, is the wife of wealthy English fop Sir Percy Blakeney, a baronet. Before their marriage, Marguerite took revenge upon the Marquis de St. Cyr, who had ordered her brother to be beaten for his romantic interest in the Marquis' daughter, with the unintended consequence of the Marquis and his sons being sent to the guillotine. When Percy found out, he became estranged from his wife. Marguerite, for her part, became disillusioned with Percy's shallow, dandyish lifestyle.



Meanwhile, the "League of the Scarlet Pimpernel", a secret society of 20 English aristocrats, "one to command, and nineteen to obey", is engaged in rescuing their French counterparts from the daily executions (see Reign of Terror). Their leader, the mysterious Scarlet Pimpernel, takes his nickname from the drawing of a small red flower with which he signs his messages. Despite being the talk of London society, only his followers and possibly the Prince of Wales know the Pimpernel's true identity. Like many others, Marguerite is entranced by the Pimpernel's daring exploits.



Black Adder.The Death Of The Scarlet Pimpernel


One of The 4 Royal cardinal Stars...




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Old 03-07-2012, 12:49 PM   #56
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You do realise that these Masons posting on here are not Freemasons...
Try Me...........
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Old 03-07-2012, 01:08 PM   #57
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Try Me...........
Hows about you prove it to the people posting on this forum instead of your irrelevent pointless info less posts and troll like behaviour....

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Originally Posted by dr steam View Post



Why are most royal houses and nobles around the world smeared in with Freemasonry if Freemasonry was not an elitist project and how many of them are simple low-graded gatekeepers like most of them who posts here on this forum ...


Interesting Posts Dr Steam..Nice one...you need to be careful...you may be teaching something to the Goons posing on here as Masons.

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Old 03-07-2012, 02:04 PM   #58
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Hows about you prove it to the people posting on this forum instead of your irrelevent pointless info less posts and troll like behaviour....



Interesting Posts Dr Steam..Nice one...you need to be careful...you may be teaching something to the Goons posing on here as Masons.
He is trying to prove it to you. You are just to ignorant to know it.
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Old 03-07-2012, 02:26 PM   #59
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He is trying to prove it to you. You are just to ignorant to know it.
Lightgiver's name is rather ironic, don't you think? If light is knowledge and wisdom, it IS ironic. Nuff said.
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Old 03-07-2012, 03:21 PM   #60
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Default Blue lodge Apron Trolls...



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Lightgiver's name is rather ironic, don't you think? If light is knowledge and wisdom, it IS ironic. Nuff said.
LG has posted some very interesting and enlightening information as opposed to you gatekeepers who have a clearly different purpose in here...

Your low-level gatekeeper rhetoric and childish personal attacks (Instead of arguing with arguments) are pathetic but do exhibit at the same time very well what you guys stand for or should we say, think what you stand for, but it must obviously also be frustrating to find that others know a great deal more about your religious sectarian elite club than yourselves.It is evident time after time that most of those who call themselves Freemasons in here does not have much concept of what it really is about ...

The OP will regret having started this thread. If it is not already the case



Pyramid scheme
A pyramid scheme is a non-sustainable business model that involves promising participants payment or services, primarily for enrolling other people into the scheme, rather than supplying any real investment or sale of products or services to the public



__________________
"To think for yourself you must question authority and learn how to put yourself in a state of vulnerable, open-mindedness; chaotic, confused, vulnerability to inform yourself.”
― Timothy Leary

Last edited by dr steam; 03-07-2012 at 05:28 PM.
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