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Old 24-01-2013, 12:49 AM   #201
lightgiver
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Arrow Up the Garden Path

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Originally Posted by paradise found View Post
Fact is, though, all paths lead to nowhere. Yeah, you heard me right. All 'paths'? Roads to absolutely nowhere.
That all depends what path you follow
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If someone leads you up the garden path, they deceive you, or give you false information that causes you to waste your time. 'Lead someone down the garden path' is also used...
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Originally Posted by paradise found View Post
In that case, it was Osho (Rajneesh). He used a tale along the same lines to illustrate a point.

But the source doesn't matter. Take it on it's own merit.
Of course the source matters...

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=234167

Last edited by lightgiver; 24-01-2013 at 01:11 AM.
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Old 24-01-2013, 04:22 AM   #202
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Satanism is foolish. Why would anyone confine themselves to the lower dimensions?

A life and destiny in pain as a meatsack... and for what?

It makes sense for the lizards, because they cannot go higher than the... Fourth Dmension (unless they repent, of course). So, they seek to wield whatever power they can, in the prison that YHWH sent them to.i

Human Souls are..
Probably because they don't buy into the notion of "higher dimensions".
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an ignorant, babbling hooligan out to destroy the Christian religion
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Old 28-01-2013, 08:29 PM   #203
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Is satanic ritual abuse really such a controversial subject on this message board? The thread begins with a list of books covering the subject and it quickly turns heated.

What gives? Ritual abuse is fact, confirmed by untold numbers of children and by the vast majority of the psychiatric community. The "debunkers" are represented by CIA-funded psychiatrists (Martin Orne, Jolly West, etc.), child pornographers (such as Paul & Shirley Eberle), and unabashed advocates of pedophilia (Ralph Underwager).

Ritual abuse occurs in countries all over the world, and has persisted throughout history. Many times, evidence is discovered to support the allegations, such as the tunnels under McMartin Preschool that were discovered through the tenacious efforts of local parents and an archaeological team. Or the medical evidence of child abuse present at McMartin, at the mysterious Children Of God cult, and in many other cases.

There are often documented ties to the intelligence community. McMartin Preschool was constructed in 1966, and carbon dating analysis showed that the tunnels were too. This meant that Charles Buckey, who built the school, lied under oath when he claimed that he knew of no tunnels. Buckey was an engineer for Hughes Aircraft, a CIA proprietary.

Is the resistance to these facts due to the occult affiliations of many of the forum members? Such would seem to be a rather silly reason to deny all of the evidence of this activity. I've found that local-area occultists seem to be more educated on the subjects of ritual abuse than the vast agnostic and monotheistic majority. Furthermore, many of them are willing to speak against it. For example, David Icke clearly has a keen interest in the esoteric realm and has many friends who are psychics, summoners, and whatnot. However, he loudly exposes ritual abuse.

Why don't the members of various esoteric groups here use their knowledge of the occult to expose these negative groups? Why pull the discredited "mass hysteria" line that is rejected by untold numbers of witnesses and by the majority of the psychiatric community, yet promoted by a small clique of pedophile advocates, child pornographers, and CIA-funded shrinks?

To the person who claims to have led a chapter of the OTO:

I find them a very fascinating group, and Aleister Crowley to be an extremely interesting character. If I may respectfully ask a few questions:

1) I've read that Crowley had very racist tendencies. What are your thoughts on this?

2) Would it be fair to say that the group has very close ties to the military and intelligence communities of the Anglo-American Empire? McMurty, Parsons, Brayton, Crowley, and other major figures in the O.T.O. story all seem to have very close military or intelligence connections.

3) What about the "boy-in-the-box" incident?
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Old 28-01-2013, 09:16 PM   #204
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Originally Posted by lord tsukasa View Post
Is satanic ritual abuse really such a controversial subject on this message board? The thread begins with a list of books covering the subject and it quickly turns heated.

What gives? Ritual abuse is fact, confirmed by untold numbers of children and by the vast majority of the psychiatric community. The "debunkers" are represented by CIA-funded psychiatrists (Martin Orne, Jolly West, etc.), child pornographers (such as Paul & Shirley Eberle), and unabashed advocates of pedophilia (Ralph Underwager).

Ritual abuse occurs in countries all over the world, and has persisted throughout history. Many times, evidence is discovered to support the allegations, such as the tunnels under McMartin Preschool that were discovered through the tenacious efforts of local parents and an archaeological team. Or the medical evidence of child abuse present at McMartin, at the mysterious Children Of God cult, and in many other cases.

There are often documented ties to the intelligence community. McMartin Preschool was constructed in 1966, and carbon dating analysis showed that the tunnels were too. This meant that Charles Buckey, who built the school, lied under oath when he claimed that he knew of no tunnels. Buckey was an engineer for Hughes Aircraft, a CIA proprietary.

Is the resistance to these facts due to the occult affiliations of many of the forum members? Such would seem to be a rather silly reason to deny all of the evidence of this activity. I've found that local-area occultists seem to be more educated on the subjects of ritual abuse than the vast agnostic and monotheistic majority. Furthermore, many of them are willing to speak against it. For example, David Icke clearly has a keen interest in the esoteric realm and has many friends who are psychics, summoners, and whatnot. However, he loudly exposes ritual abuse.

Why don't the members of various esoteric groups here use their knowledge of the occult to expose these negative groups? Why pull the discredited "mass hysteria" line that is rejected by untold numbers of witnesses and by the majority of the psychiatric community, yet promoted by a small clique of pedophile advocates, child pornographers, and CIA-funded shrinks?

To the person who claims to have led a chapter of the OTO:

I find them a very fascinating group, and Aleister Crowley to be an extremely interesting character. If I may respectfully ask a few questions:

1) I've read that Crowley had very racist tendencies. What are your thoughts on this?

2) Would it be fair to say that the group has very close ties to the military and intelligence communities of the Anglo-American Empire? McMurty, Parsons, Brayton, Crowley, and other major figures in the O.T.O. story all seem to have very close military or intelligence connections.

3) What about the "boy-in-the-box" incident?
Here is an article you may find of interest entitled: 'Aleister Crowley: A Legacy of Racism and Nationalism', which discusses the Great Beast's writings:

http://www.arcane-archive.org/faqs/crowleyracistfaq.php

Last edited by bob32; 28-01-2013 at 09:17 PM.
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Old 28-01-2013, 09:20 PM   #205
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Satan is a literary character cooked up by the church in their best-seller..
simple.
I don't think it's that simple.

Why are there active networks of satanism within the highest levels of the Catholic Church itself? William H. Kennedy wrote his book about these networks, and more than one former Jesuit has spoken of such "black masses" being carried out by the high officials of their order. There have been many times in which the public has been able to catch a glimpse of these networks - for example, check this out.

I agree with the definition that Icke attaches to "satanism." Not necessarily having a direct connection to Satan, himself, but to the negative entity (or entities) that have been worshiped throughout human history under many different names.
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Old 28-01-2013, 09:38 PM   #206
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I agree with the definition that Icke attaches to "satanism." Not necessarily having a direct connection to Satan...
likewise, americans refer to any kind of social reform as 'communism'.
when used indiscriminately, as in these cases, the words are meaningless.
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Old 28-01-2013, 09:48 PM   #207
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Here is an article you may find of interest entitled: 'Aleister Crowley: A Legacy of Racism and Nationalism', which discusses the Great Beast's writings:

http://www.arcane-archive.org/faqs/crowleyracistfaq.php
Thank you. This is very interesting. One could, perhaps, argue that such elitism was a product of his privileged upbringing and the culture of the times. H.P. Lovecraft, who had a great influence on occult circles, also had racist tendencies, and was a product of great wealth.
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Old 28-01-2013, 09:51 PM   #208
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H.P. Lovecraft, who had a great influence on occult circles, also had racist tendencies, and was a product of great wealth.
can't be lovecraft.
he never came from wealth.

interesting how people recommend secondary sources, rather than an individual author.
one learns about crowley by reading crowley.
anyone who has read crowlery, knows that his detractors are full of shit.
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Old 28-01-2013, 09:56 PM   #209
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Originally Posted by bikerdruid View Post
likewise, americans refer to any kind of social reform as 'communism'.
when used indiscriminately, as in these cases, the words are meaningless.
Did my definition sound "indiscriminate"? I don't think so.

I made it clear exactly what I apply "satanism" to as an umbrella word. Why allow your own definitions to be limited based on the propaganda disseminated by the church? "Satan" as we know him from Christianity is only one face of a very evil, destructive set of entities that were worshiped before the church even came into being.

One could say that the term "Illuminati" is thrown around too arbitrarily, and I agree, but the reason for that is because it is the easiest way to communicate the general concept that the word represents. Most people who hear "Illuminati" don't immediately turn their thoughts to Weishaupt, but to the concept of clandestine forces operating behind the public facade of world affairs.

In the same way, "Satanism" communicates a negative concept that can easily and accurately apply to overtly Christian cults such as the Children Of God (COG) as easily as it can refer to overtly Satanist cults engaged in similar activities.

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Old 28-01-2013, 10:04 PM   #210
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Originally Posted by bikerdruid View Post
can't be lovecraft.
he never came from wealth.

interesting how people recommend secondary sources, rather than an individual author.
one learns about crowley by reading crowley.
anyone who has read crowlery, knows that his detractors are full of shit.
Lovecraft's grandfather (who raised him and cultivated his interest in gothic literature) was a "prominent industrialist" (who I'm aware was also active in Freemasonry):

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With the death of Lovecraft’s father, the upbringing of the boy fell to his mother, his two aunts, and especially his grandfather, the prominent industrialist Whipple Van Buren Phillips.

http://www.hplovecraft.com/life/biograph.asp
On the subject of Crowley, may I ask your thoughts on:

1) The allegations of racism, which do appear to reference source material.

2) Crowley's widely-reported intelligence service, and the military/intelligence connections of so many prominent OTO figures.
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Old 28-01-2013, 10:52 PM   #211
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Yes I absolutely deny the existence of SRA. It is is no more than a fundamentalist delusion unsupported by any credible evidence.



There is absolutely no cover up. The only cover up exists in the minds of fundamentalists who are busy making up phantoms that don't exist.



So you are quoting someone whom you think is a disinfo agent. That's clever. Do you often do this? Just pick and choose what fits your neurosis and reject the rest. Let's look at this book again.

states:

"Although Dr Ross has found no evidence of a widespread Satanic network he is open to the possibility that a certain percentage of his patients' memories may be entirely or partially historically accurate."

So right here the alarm bells are ringing. The entire premise of the book is thrown out the window. He has found no evidence!

But there is more. He states in the book:

"One of the most intense aspects of DID treatment is helping the children through their abreactions. During an abreaction, the child alter may beg the parent to stop, scream, cry, express extreme sadness, or clutch her lower abdomen. There may be hand movements to push the father out of her vagina, or motor movements accompanying the abreaction of an oral rape. The genuineness and intensity of the abreactions is one of the most compelling features of DID, but it is not evidence that the abreacted events ever took place. I have witnessed intense abreactions of events later proven not to have occurred or retracted as false memories. Retraction does not prove that the events never took place, just as recall does not prove that they did." [Italics mine.]

In other words you are dealing with deeply psychological issues which are not easy to define and whose conclusions one should not readily jump at. In another example he states:

"Almost every Satan or major internal monster I have worked with has turned out to be a child in disguise. For instance, in one system, Satan was hidden behind a massive steel door with molten lava flowing in front of it; the host personality thought this was evidence of the power and dangerousness of Satan, but actually the fortress was required to protect a badly abused child who was very frightened of the world. The Satan image was a scary disguise designed to frighten away the rest of the personality system and outsiders. As well, the identity of Satan helped to keep the host personality from coming anywhere near the memories, and therefore was also protective of the host. The child creates fantastic scenarios in order to cope with the fear within"

This book far from assists your case but actually further destroys it. This was a bad choice. You can even read a disappointed fundie reviewer of the book on the Amazon site above. He/she states:

"Unfortunately, the writer presents the popular view that Satanic abuse is strictly psychologically based... It is not possible to be satanically abused if Satan is not the cause of the abuse. Satan is not a mental illness. Satan is a very real devil who uses real people to torture and mutilate people's minds and bodies, especially children."



Damn fine reason to dismiss him yes. Another Christian fundie with an absurd agenda unsupported by any evidence. Wow that's new.




Quoting people completely out of context again to build up a false premise. Where have I seen you do that before?
Your absolutist views on the issue of ritual abuse are, in my opinion, very misguided.

I'm shocked that you would flatly deny the existence of a phenomenon confirmed by untold numbers of witnesses around the world, including both survivors and former practitioners, for the completely unscientific "false memory" line.

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So right here the alarm bells are ringing. The entire premise of the book is thrown out the window. He has found no evidence!
In courts of law, first-hand testimony is considered evidence, especially when it is corroborated. When the corroborating witnesses, many of them children, have nothing to gain by telling their story (and often everything to lose), that testimony is taken even more seriously.

Ever heard of the Children Of God (COG)? The Finders? McMartin Preschool? Presidio? Dutroux? Bohemian Grove? Son of Sam? Manson killings?

If you've read about these, there often is evidence. Whether it be the tunnels discovered under McMartin (along with hundreds of animal bones), the videos of child pornography and rituals found at the Children Of God (COG) compound in Chile, or the letter from the high official of a satanic sect found in the home of murdered Dutroux accomplice Bernard Weinstein.

There is evidence, and that it is frequently covered up is an established fact. The ring in Omaha that you mentioned (featured in Conspiracy of Silence) was able to have an immense amount of evidence destreoyed.

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Damn fine reason to dismiss him yes. Another Christian fundie with an absurd agenda unsupported by any evidence. Wow that's new.
Many secular, liberal authors compellingly discuss the subject of ritual abuse. Dave McGowan and Alex Constantine, to name two.

You mention the ring in Omaha that centered around Lawrence King and prominent Republicans as having no connection to satanic ritual abuse. This is untrue.

If you have read The Franklin Cover-Up by John DeCamp, evidence was discovered to connect this ring to satanic activities. That is, at least, what the children described. Yet more "false memories" and "defense mechanisms"?

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