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Old 04-12-2012, 04:07 PM   #381
Firewand
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Originally Posted by gary29 View Post
Basic levels of reading comprehension sure are below par on here. The 6 million figure is the one for the total number of Jews murdered by the Nazi's during the holocaust. The 4 million figure is the one the Soviets used for the number of deaths at the Auschwitz-Birkenhau camp complex. This figure was never believed by western historians, and was almost certainly exaggerated by the Communists. The 1.1 million figure is the one based on reliable evidence.

I expect you'll read this when curiosity gets the better of you and you take me off of ignore again.
No, I'm talking about the combined overall figure of 6 million, based on adding the inflated 4 million figure from Auschwitz, which was eventually revised to 1.5 million. Which you say you already acknowledge, right. So why are you still saying at was 6 million supposedly gassed when you acknowlegde the overall figure being reduced by some 2.5 million from Auschwitz alone? It's you that's not making any sense, so don't try and reflect your errors onto somebody else. It's you who has contradicted yourself, not me, therefore the onus is on you to explain why you still propagate the old figure of 6 million while you also apparently knew the Auschwitz figures were lowered by 2.5 million.
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Old 04-12-2012, 04:14 PM   #382
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Originally Posted by lightgiver View Post


I have read and seen more than you can Imagine..you nazi apologists cannot pull the wool over my eyes...

They should not have been there in the first place...and why give people striped clothing...DISGUSTING.


That`s true, except it`s not Nazi apologist behavior to ask for the truth rather than 70 year old post-war propaganda. It is a well known fact that the KZ system had typhoid epidemics in 1943, 44 and 45 and that most of the people seen dead or close to it when the camps were liberated had died of typhus, starvation or both. The allied had much of the blame for this because they bombed the railways so the Germans couldn`t move food around freely. Even the German soldiers were starving, as you can clearly see when you look at front line photos from Russia.
The point is that the people you are showing in your little propaganda slide were clearly not killed by being gassed in gas chambers, which after all is what the Holocaust story says happened to Jews and other undesirables when they could no longer work. Obviously these people wouldn`t have been able to work so why were they still alive to be liberated? Clearly, by the internal logic of the atrocity propaganda, they should all have been gassed months before becoming such emaciated husks. If the purpose of gassing and cremating millions of people, if this was even physically possible, was to hide the evidence of the crimes committed, why were hundreds of thousands of KZ prisoners liberated by the allies? Surely they should all have been killed and the evidence of their existence disposed of.
I`m not saying that the German aggression was justified or that its treatment of undesirables was morally sound. It`s just that the Americans also placed unwanted minorities such as Germans and Japanese in concentration camps during the war. The difference, or one of them, was that the American rail system wasn`t being bombed daily so the US government was able to ship food to these camps, at least as far as we know.
The real issue therefore needs to be whether it was warranted to place Jews in camps as an unwanted minority or not. I would say it probably wasn`t, since many of them considered themselves German. But from the perspective of the Germans there had been news headlines in western media for almost a decade writing that Juda had declared war on Germany, which I guess can be interpreted as making all Jews enemies.
And once there, whose fault was it really that they were starved to death? The German`s or the allies`?

As for the atrocity propaganda itself much of it is obviously true, but equally obvious is it that much of it is probably lies. You can see this if you study British war propaganda from WW1. Nothing the British claimed about the Germans was ever true. They didn`t start the war, they weren`t raping Belgian nuns, impaling French babies on bayonets for sport, eating British PoWs or massacring Jews because of "racial hatred". All of this was invented to dehumanize the Germans so it`d be easier for the Tommys to kill the Bosch.
I`m not gonna make any specific claims regarding the propaganda in WW2, but without carefully investigating this propaganda to figure out what is true or not there is no way to know. Religiously believing all of it like we`re told to do is about as intelligent as rejecting all of it without a real investigation.

Churchill said in the 50s that the war had not been fought for the Jews or to stop Hitler and the Nazis, but to "destroy the strength of the German people". What does this statement mean if it isn`t talking about premeditated genocide against the Germans? And why is there nothing, or virtually nothing, in his memoirs about the suffering of Jews? In fact, why is the Holocaust and the alleged 6 million people gassed to death not a topic in any text written by the people who were actually engaged in WW2? It wasn`t even until the 70s that the Holocaust business really took off, and it didn`t become the mythological hysteria it currently is until the 90s. Did it really take 30 years to become indignant about these alleged murders, or was there some other explanation for this weird delay? I would remind you that no gas chambers or other evidence of mass extermination was ever found in any of the camps liberated by the western allies. Every single one of these alleged death camps were liberated by the Soviets, who insisted that the 6 million figure be entered into the Nuremberg trials without evidence. After the USSR had done this it didn`t really mention gas chambers or extermination of Jews very much for about 30 years. Why? How are we supposed to just blindly believe atrocity stories when they`re being told by communists long after the war, and therefore possibly for political motives?
Is it really so outrageous to assume that notorious liars and criminals like Stalin, Beria and Krushchev could have lied, planted "evidence" and exaggerated, in order to keep East Germany under Moscow`s control through the same guilt trip the rest of the world has been subjected to over the past 20 years or so?

Dehumanizing the enemy is a staple of modern warfare, and the winner always has the option of perpetuating the lies of war used during the fighting after it is over. It would be incredible if WW2 was the only war in history where reality outdid the dehumanizing war propaganda. According to American propaganda films from WW2 the problem with the Nazis was that they were trying to conquer the world, not that they were trying to exterminate Jews. How come the Endløsung wasn`t used by the war propagandists when it would so effectively have demonized the enemy?
Just saying...

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Old 04-12-2012, 04:41 PM   #383
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..... and there's more.

Scenes of horror at Nazi concentration camps, were people were subjected to medical experiments.

http://www.shamash.org/holocaust/pho...s/MedExp03.jpg

Nazi medical experiments: a prisoner is submerged in a tank filled with cold water. The goal of this type of experiments was to check how long German pilots, who had to parachute into the cold north sea, would survive. Different types of clothing were tested, as well as different methods for reviving the experimental subjects who survived. Yes kiddies, that is blocks of ice floating in that pool

http://www.shamash.org/holocaust/pho...s/MedExp04.jpg

The plan of the gas chamber of Krema II in Auschwitz. The air extraction system (which the Holocaust deniers claim didn't exist) is clearly shown: "entluftungskanal" means air extraction duct, and "Beluftung" means ventilation. Remains of the air-extraction system can still be seen in the ruins.

http://www.shamash.org/holocaust/pho...ges/Plan01.jpg

An overview of Krema IV in Auschwitz. The gas chambers are in the back; in the foreground, the morgue and the crematorium.

http://www.shamash.org/holocaust/pho...ges/Krema4.jpg

A detail from a photograph of the Auschwitz-Birkenau extermination camp, taken by a US plane in 25 August 1944. Krema III is clearly seen, and the roof vents through which the Zyklon-B was introduced are visible.

http://www.shamash.org/holocaust/pho...ges/Krema3.jpg

The gas chambers of Krema IV in Auschwitz. As opposed to Kremas II and III, these gas chambers were above ground, and the Zyklon-B was introduced through small openings in the wall, which had shutters on them (visible in the photograph).

http://www.shamash.org/holocaust/pho...s/Krema401.jpg

The furnaces of Krema II in Auschwitz.

http://www.shamash.org/holocaust/pho...es/Furnace.jpg


You might try to claim that the gas chambers were never used to kill people, however how do you explain the large number of crematoriums at the camp. The maximum prisoner capacity at Auschwitz was 30,000, and I can count 15 furnaces in the photo of Krema 2 alone. The district I live in has a population of 128,000, with a large elderly population. The only crematorium in the area has 2 furnaces. Why did Auschwitz need so many furnaces (there were 5 Krema at Auschwitz, so let's estimate 15 was the average and multiply by 5), for a population less than a quarter of where I live? Unless of course they were expecting a huge number of corpses.
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Old 04-12-2012, 05:05 PM   #384
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Originally Posted by gary29 View Post
Basic levels of reading comprehension sure are below par on here. The 6 million figure is the one for the total number of Jews murdered by the Nazi's during the holocaust. The 4 million figure is the one the Soviets used for the number of deaths at the Auschwitz-Birkenhau camp complex. This figure was never believed by western historians, and was almost certainly exaggerated by the Communists.
So where does your 6 million claim come from, then?

Quote:
The 1.1 million figure is the one based on reliable evidence.
Bollocks!

What's your answer to this, then?

Quote:
In a dramatic and unprecedented videotaped interview, Dr. Franciszek Piper, senior curator and director of archives of the Auschwitz State Museum admitted on camera that 'Krema 1,' the alleged 'homicidal gas chamber' shown off to hundreds of thousands of tourists every year at the Auschwitz main camp, was, in fact, fabricated after the war by the Soviet Union -apparently on the direct orders of Josef Stalin.

What Piper said - in effect and on camera - was that the explosive 1988 Leuchter Report was correct: no homicidal gassings took place in the buildings designated as 'homicidal gas chambers' at Auschwitz.

With this admission by none other than the respected head of the Auschwitz State Museum, one of the most sacred 'facts' of history has been destroyed.
You can see the interview here:

http://exposing-the-holocaust-hoax-a...auschwitz.html

"reliable evidence" Jews were gassed at Auschwitz? LOL.
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Old 04-12-2012, 05:14 PM   #385
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Originally Posted by resistance View Post
No, I'm talking about the combined overall figure of 6 million, based on adding the inflated 4 million figure from Auschwitz, which was eventually revised to 1.5 million. Which you say you already acknowledge, right. So why are you still saying at was 6 million supposedly gassed when you acknowlegde the overall figure being reduced by some 2.5 million from Auschwitz alone? It's you that's not making any sense, so don't try and reflect your errors onto somebody else. It's you who has contradicted yourself, not me, therefore the onus is on you to explain why you still propagate the old figure of 6 million while you also apparently knew the Auschwitz figures were lowered by 2.5 million.
For someone who allegedly has me on ignore, you sure seem to like replying to my posts.

Anyhoo.....

I don't think anyone has ever claimed that all the Jews who were killed in the holocaust were gassed. The gas chambers were just one method. The were also shot, many before they even got to the camps,starved, huge amounts died in transit to the camps. Those cattle trucks didn't have heating, or food and water. They also died of diseases like typhus. Now you can claim that typhus epidemics weren't the fault of the Nazi's. Typhus is spread by lice and fleas and is only caught by people who are in an already weakened state. It is not caught be people living in sanitary conditions with access to medical care, proper food and extensive de-lousing facilities (gas chambers, Zyklon B, etc). Which some people on here claim they had.
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Old 04-12-2012, 05:16 PM   #386
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One photo. I can not possibly deal with all of them at once.
please just click a link and trhen C&P the properties into the image icon on this site and then you can debunk

if you dont, then you are just taking the piss and even though i agree with you that the holocaust needs questioning - i also think that people need to address issues raised

you said you could debunk, so the forum is yours to do so
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Old 04-12-2012, 05:24 PM   #387
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Originally Posted by flamingflynn View Post
So where does your 6 million claim come from, then?



Bollocks!

What's your answer to this, then?



You can see the interview here:

http://exposing-the-holocaust-hoax-a...auschwitz.html

"reliable evidence" Jews were gassed at Auschwitz? LOL.
Oh dear, you've fallen for a neo-Nazi hoax that was debunked by Dr Piper nearly 20 yrs ago.

Quote:
ogwiqcim, October21,1993
Dr Franciszek Piper
Pa'nstwowe Muzeum
32-603 Ogwiecim -Poland

Texas School Publications
University of Texas
P.O.Box D
Austin,Texas 78713-8904
U S A
Dear Sirs,

In connection with an advertisement of David Cole (An open
letter to the daily Texan, February 19, 1993) in which he offers
the videotape named "David Cole - Interviews Dr Franciszek
Piper" I would like to inform your readers:

1. the sham interview with me there is the Neonazi
style monologue of young man who never seriously approached the great
tragedy of humanity named Auschwitz and Holocaust. In his
ingenuousness he decided to halt the part of the murderers
instead of their innocent victims - different every
honest man does. My answers on a few questions of Cole ( who
deceitfully introduced himself as a man who wanted to convince his
acquaintances in America that Auschwitz was really a place of
genocide) constitute a small proportion of this video tape.

2. In his advertisement he introduces me as a "Head of
Auschwitz Archives at the Auschwitz State Museum". This is
untruth. I am not and I have been neither a head of Auschwitz Archives
nor a director of Auschwitz Museum, as Cole maintains in
other propaganda leaflets. The purpose of such manipulation
with of facts is clear - to attract potential purchasers of his
"Interview" video tape.

3. Cole maintains that I first time admitted the allegedly
unknown fact the Nazis adapted the crematorium in question in
which the gas chamber were located for air-raid shelter, the fact
allegedly unknown even for Museum guides. It is un truth. See
enclosed copies of pages from the books which constitute the
fundamental reading for Auschwitz guides. In book by T-an Sehn
"Concentrat Camp Ogwiqcim-Brzezinka (Auschwitz-Birkenau)Warsaw 1957,
You may read on the page 152-"In May 1944 the old Crematorium
I in the base camp was adapted for use as an air raid shelter

The Fact is also confirmed in the book by Jean Claude Pressac
"Auschwitz: Technique and operation of the gas chambers,
published by The Beate Klarsfeld Foundation, New York 1989 (515
Madison Avenue). On the page 157 you may read: "With part of the
building converted to an air raid shelter, this is the state in which
the SS abandoned Krematorium I in January 1945" Repeating what
Pressac had written I told what was the nature of the
adaptation works carried out by the Nazis and what one had to do to
remove those changes in order to regain the previous appearance.
They are all "Pipers revelations. In spite of the fact that
such secondary restoration works had to be done there is an
undisputable reality that the gas chamber in question is housed in the same
building which has been existed from prewar times till now.

4. The fact that the Nazi murderers used gas chambers (in
Birkenau you can see the ruins of the other 5 gas chambers) for
mass annihilation of innocent men, women and children, mostly
Jews, has been proved by thousands of memoires and depositions of
eyewitnesses as well as by German official documents and plans.
It is obvious fact for everybody who wants to approach the
problem, to contact still living witnesses and to study historical
sources.

5. I have devoted 28 years of my life to save the memory of
the countless victims of the Nazi barbarity to warn people against
indifference to all forms of racial, religious and national
based hatred, which leads to injustice, suffering and killing
of innocent people. Because of it I take the fact my name is
used for disseminating such kind of lies and hiding of the obvious
truth as a lack of honesty and dignity.

yours,sincerely



DrFranciszek Piper

PS Send me please the copy of your magazine in which my letter will be
published

[transcription note: Dr. Piper's first language is Polish, not
English, and the letter reads awkwardly. knm]
That's the big problem when you use Nazi's for your "facts"
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Old 04-12-2012, 05:34 PM   #388
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Originally Posted by gary29 View Post
..... and there's more.

Scenes of horror at Nazi concentration camps, were people were subjected to medical experiments.

http://www.shamash.org/holocaust/pho...s/MedExp03.jpg

Nazi medical experiments: a prisoner is submerged in a tank filled with cold water. The goal of this type of experiments was to check how long German pilots, who had to parachute into the cold north sea, would survive. Different types of clothing were tested, as well as different methods for reviving the experimental subjects who survived. Yes kiddies, that is blocks of ice floating in that pool

http://www.shamash.org/holocaust/pho...s/MedExp04.jpg

The plan of the gas chamber of Krema II in Auschwitz. The air extraction system (which the Holocaust deniers claim didn't exist) is clearly shown: "entluftungskanal" means air extraction duct, and "Beluftung" means ventilation. Remains of the air-extraction system can still be seen in the ruins.

http://www.shamash.org/holocaust/pho...ges/Plan01.jpg

An overview of Krema IV in Auschwitz. The gas chambers are in the back; in the foreground, the morgue and the crematorium.

http://www.shamash.org/holocaust/pho...ges/Krema4.jpg

A detail from a photograph of the Auschwitz-Birkenau extermination camp, taken by a US plane in 25 August 1944. Krema III is clearly seen, and the roof vents through which the Zyklon-B was introduced are visible.

http://www.shamash.org/holocaust/pho...ges/Krema3.jpg

The gas chambers of Krema IV in Auschwitz. As opposed to Kremas II and III, these gas chambers were above ground, and the Zyklon-B was introduced through small openings in the wall, which had shutters on them (visible in the photograph).

http://www.shamash.org/holocaust/pho...s/Krema401.jpg

The furnaces of Krema II in Auschwitz.

http://www.shamash.org/holocaust/pho...es/Furnace.jpg


You might try to claim that the gas chambers were never used to kill people, however how do you explain the large number of crematoriums at the camp. The maximum prisoner capacity at Auschwitz was 30,000, and I can count 15 furnaces in the photo of Krema 2 alone. The district I live in has a population of 128,000, with a large elderly population. The only crematorium in the area has 2 furnaces. Why did Auschwitz need so many furnaces (there were 5 Krema at Auschwitz, so let's estimate 15 was the average and multiply by 5), for a population less than a quarter of where I live? Unless of course they were expecting a huge number of corpses.

Whatever the case I don`t really think most normal people would claim that the KZ system was some sort of humanitarian action. But that doesn`t mean everything is cut and dried either.
For example medical experiments, no matter how atrocious, do not equate to a master plan for murdering millions of people. And the most basic problem with the gas chambers is that the Germans had huge amounts of prisoners and that their health code actually did specify delousing and disinfection procedures for all prisoners and forced labor. This included shaving the hair to prevent lice infestations and separate procedures for delousing clothes. Whatever else these chambers were being used for they were certainly used for delousing people and clothes. And the most popular brand of delousing chemical in Germany was Zyklon B. Such chambers must also obviously have been built with the thought of letting the gas out in mind, regardless of what the intended use was
Keep in mind that I`m not saying that none of what you claim was going on, but that the presence of delousing/gas chambers in themselves do not prove mass murder by gassing.
As for the crematoria this would depend a little on what year the photo was taken. As you may know horrendous typhoid epidemics were troubling the KZ system for at least the last three years of the war. This disease has a high mortality rate and even more so under conditions of malnutrition and slave labor. This large increase in dead prisoners might be a reason to expand the camp`s crematoria. I agree that such large facilities would have been pretty suspicious in 41 or 42 but not necessarily in 44 or 45.
But then the main sources of incriminating evidence for the Holocaust are the Wannsee Conference stenographic report, eye witness testimonies, confessions and above all the Soviet Union. It is not photos of atrocities, crematoria or gas chambers.

Quite apart from the fact that the Wannsee notes could have been forged or at least altered before being presented at the Nuremberg trials they have one glaring weakness as evidence, which can be hard to spot. The Germans were extremely careful to couch their state organized crime spree in flowery euphemisms and dull, innocuous bureaucratese. Why then are they so blood curdlingly explicit in the Wannsee record? You might say that it wasn`t meant to be publicized. But if that`s the case, how could they be moronic enough to have a stenographer write the whole thing down?

Secondly the witness testimonies: given the scale of the atrocities, any one witness, no matter how horrendous his experience, can`t be relied upon to really be sure of the amounts of people actually murdered, vs those who escaped, died of diseases or starved to death. An individual living under great stress and permanently hungry will probably be hard pressed to tell whether an eventual process of mass murder killed 500 people, 100 000 or 6 million. The combined wight of the testimonies is pretty damning in itself, provided that they are all true, but still not sufficient to conclusively prove how many were murdered or under what circumstances.
When it comes to the so called death camps, which Auschwitz was not, the inmates used for Kapo duties would have been in a better position to know, but then where is the actual evidence that these three camps really existed? If you go visit them there`s absolutely nothing there, including a total absence of the millions of bones and other remains that would have been buried nearby. Crematoria can not burn bones without chemical preparation, and no such quantities of suitable chemicals were ever delivered to the death camps, or for that matter Auschwitz. As a result the bones must be buried somewhere in the vicinity of the camps, unless they were transported far away to cover up the crimes. But there`s no mention of this in the Holocaust narrative and no evidence of it elsewhere to my knowledge.

Confessions can obviously come in several forms as well. There is a great deal of evidence that Nazis, and especially SS, who were captured were tortured into confessing. Any such confession is worthless because most people would confess to being the Pope, having carried out 9/11 or being a space alien if you tortured them for long enough. If you read books like The Nuremberg Interviews you will see that captured Nazis were not treated with much genuine respect at all, to put it mildly. Everything they say is twisted to seem as deranged and repulsive as possible, and every physical defect is duly noted and brought up to belittle the prisoner in interviews.
Perhaps they really were like this though and the point is the confessions, which I hold in little regard as evidence given the hatred the allies felt toward the captured suspects.

Which brings us to our most prolific source of Holocaust lore: the Soviet Union. The Soviets "liberated" every single camp ever accused of gassing Jews and other undesirables in premeditated genocidal lunacy. No evidence was initially presented although they did insist that the figure of 6 million Jews be entered into the Nuremberg trials without evidence, along with the suspicious Wannsee notes.
After this the atrocity propaganda against the Germans was mostly restricted to the East Germany, in order for Moscow to be able to control this synthetic state. People in the west heard little or nothing about the Holocaust for more than 30 years after WW2, when it was suddenly "revealed" in western media until it has become a full fledged atrocity mythology.
But is it real? Are we gonna trust communists without evidence or are we gonna demand it. For all we know they could have changed the camps to fit the horror stories, fabricated evidence, hidden exonerating evidence or even killed people themselves and claimed later it was photos of Jews being tormented in German camps. There`s just no way to know for sure what the Soviets did to the narrative that became the Holocaust story. Personally I trust them about as far as I could throw them.

I would like to say though that I think concentration camps are horrible, whoever is using them to get rid of enemies, perceived enemies or political dissidents. They are however a consequence of modern warfare which is always genocidal, meaning that the civilian population is considered a legitimate war target, and of state collectivism that tends to treat whole groups of people as if they are all the same, when legal tradition in the west prescribes individual responsibility. It is worth remembering that the Germans did not invent this doctrine, or for that matter collectivism, but the British during WW1. The British were also the first to actually put whole groups of people in concentration camps during the Boer War, and among the first to classify whole peoples as inferior or superior without any individual considerations. That the Germans used collectivism and camps in WW2 is not commendable, but perfectly understandable given the circumstances and the general trend of all governments at the time. That they did this does not however mean that they committed barbarous genocide in them. They may have done, but we still need the proper evidence presented if we want the truth.
If we just want to be politically correct and blame the Nazis for all the evils of modern society then we obviously don`t need evidence though. In fact evidence can only hurt us and sow doubt about our neat version of the world, where the Nazis are evil and the allies are good. Including the murderous Soviet Union.
Right?

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Old 04-12-2012, 06:02 PM   #389
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for me - no

but thank you for taking the time to follow up on you post
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Old 04-12-2012, 06:34 PM   #390
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gary

how do we know these are all jews

and how do we know they are innocent - i kniow naked people always look innocent because it reminds us of how we came into the world

but back on topic

have you a provenance for the photos and what they depict and when?

(not a point of contention but for sake of history)
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Old 04-12-2012, 06:35 PM   #391
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Originally Posted by gary29 View Post
Oh dear, you've fallen for a neo-Nazi hoax that was debunked by Dr Piper nearly 20 yrs ago.
Stop talking bollocks.

Quote:
That's the big problem when you use Nazi's for your "facts"
Are you accusing David Cole - a Jew - of being a Nazi?

You're here to pull our chains, right?

Concerning the 5 points Dr Piper makes which for some bizarre reason you seem to think is a rebuttal...

Concerning the 5 points he makes...


1. Here he states that he didn't know that his interview would be part of a "revisionist" documentary. That's fine, but it doesn't mean that what he said wasn't true -- it just means that he isn't a "revisionist".

2. Here he states that David Cole misstated his credentials. He is not part of the Auschwitz State Museum... he is with the Pa'nstwowe Muzeum, Auschwitz-Birkenau. But he is one of the prime figures responsible for getting the Auschwitz State Museum to reduce their official death count at Auschwitz from 4 million to 1.6 million. (This is why he may be a bit touchy about being called a "revisionist" ... there was a time when such a claim would have been punishable by law.)

3. In this response, Dr. Piper doesn't deny that the Gas Chamber is a reconstruction ... he is denying that the official tour guides were instructed to present the gas chamber as original to tourist. He states that "fundamental reading for Auschwitz guides" clearly states this fact. The problem here is that at the beginning of Cole's documentary, one of the tour guides actually did say that the gas chamber was in its "original state". I guess she just didn't do her homework. (And before I saw this documentary, I never heard this fact before either.)

4. Here he states that the gas chamber at the Auschwitz main camp is legitimate because there were gas chambers at the Birkenau camp. He also mentions the eye-witness testimony of prisoners who claim that gassings took place.

5. Here he calls Cole a liar, and reiterates the fact that he doesn't agree with him.

This really isn't much of a rebuttal, is it? He doesn't deny saying the things he said in the interview... he just denies being a "revisionist".

And you have avoided stating where your "6 million" claim came from.
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Old 04-12-2012, 06:44 PM   #392
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gary

how do we know these are all jews

and how do we know they are innocent - i kniow naked people always look innocent because it reminds us of how we came into the world

but back on topic

have you a provenance for the photos and what they depict and when?

(not a point of contention but for sake of history)
Are you suggesting that the children visible in two of the above photo's are terrorists worthy of summary execution? The German uniforms in the top picture I posted is clearly seen.

Last edited by shanticat; 04-12-2012 at 09:06 PM. Reason: removal of ref to troll gasse geir
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Old 04-12-2012, 06:51 PM   #393
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If the holocaust were true, why do they need to fake anything?



Still waiting for gary29 to substantiate his bold claim about the 6 million....
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Old 04-12-2012, 06:56 PM   #394
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Are you suggesting that the children visible in two of the above photo's are terrorists worthy of summary execution? The German uniforms in the top picture I posted is clearly seen.
i confess that i did not see children or overlooked them -

if you can show the picture i will try to answer

but for the rest of my comment as to

Quote:
how do we know these are all jews

and how do we know they are innocent - i kniow naked people always look innocent because it reminds us of how we came into the world

but back on topic

have you a provenance for the photos and what they depict and when?

(not a point of contention but for sake of history)
i welcome you input
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Old 04-12-2012, 09:17 PM   #395
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Originally Posted by georgesmiley View Post
i confess that i did not see children or overlooked them -

if you can show the picture i will try to answer

but for the rest of my comment as to



i welcome you input
I posted them previously, but it appears that they have been removed. I notice also that Gasse Geir appears to have been expunged from the forum, as I can find no evidence of his existence. I'm sure some people will claim he never existed in the first place.

A mass execution of Jews in Nazi occupied Soviet Union. The SS man is firing at a Jewish woman who is wounded and trying to get up.

http://www.shamash.org/holocaust/photos/images/EG2.jpg

A mass execution of Jews in Nazi occupied Soviet Union. Naked Jews, including a young boy, just before their murder.

http://www.shamash.org/holocaust/photos/images/EG3.jpg

Gasse Geir posted a better quality version of the top picture which clearly showed several young children amongst the bodies.

As for proving they're Jews. I'm afraid that's something I can't do, it's not as though Jews come with a large Star of David printed on them. I think it is clear to anyone that an atrocity is being committed by men wearing German uniforms.
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Old 04-12-2012, 09:24 PM   #396
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If the holocaust were true, why do they need to fake anything?



Still waiting for gary29 to substantiate his bold claim about the 6 million....
I've just spent half an hour trying to find this photo on the Wiesenthal website. So far, no luck. I'm sure you can provide a link to speed up my search.

BTW, The 6 million figure is taken from the difference between pre-war European census figures and the number of Jews still alive after.
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Old 04-12-2012, 10:02 PM   #397
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I've just spent half an hour trying to find this photo on the Wiesenthal website. So far, no luck. I'm sure you can provide a link to speed up my search.
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IN 1999 the Simon Wiesenthal Center published on its website a photograph (below right) with this caption: "As these prisoners were being processed for slave labor, many of their friends and families were being gassed and burned in the ovens in the crematoria. The smoke can be seen in the background. June 1944".

By Friday, May 5, 2000 the caption has been surreptitiously and guiltily changed to: "As these prisoners were being processed for slave labor, many of their friends and families were being gassed and burned in the ovens in the crematoria."

The fake smoke was however still in the photo. . .

Update (as of Sunday, December 3, 2000): Caught red-handed in their forgery, the SWC has removed the fake smoke from the photograph at the above link.

When checked on Monday, August 11, 2003 the photograph had been wholly removed, and replaced with the words "Photo not available."

http://www.fpp.co.uk/Auschwitz/docs/...smokeFake.html
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BTW, The 6 million figure is taken from the difference between pre-war European census figures and the number of Jews still alive after.
Your sums don't add up.

Since 4 million of the 6 million supposedly came from Auschwitz, and now even the Holocaust museums have decreased the Auschwitz death totals by about 3 million, I would say that’s problematic for the idea that 6 million Jews were killed during the Holocaust, wouldn’t you?

4 million decreased to 1.1 million eliminates 2.9 million

6 million – 2.9 million = 3.1 million (that’s if you accept every other part of the story)

Are you now ready to retract your claim and admit you were spreading lies?

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Old 04-12-2012, 10:21 PM   #398
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I've just spent half an hour trying to find this photo on the Wiesenthal website. ...
I remember the faked photo with caption, ... and their subsequent removal. This is a constant problem whenever such lies are proven to be just that - lies.
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Old 05-12-2012, 02:32 AM   #399
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I posted them previously, but it appears that they have been removed. I notice also that Gasse Geir appears to have been expunged from the forum, as I can find no evidence of his existence. I'm sure some people will claim he never existed in the first place.
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i can find no evidence that any jews were in camps pre 1939,

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Originally Posted by bones: 14.03.2014
some jews like many political prisioners were interned b4 1939

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Old 05-12-2012, 03:47 AM   #400
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Default The Torah and the "Lost 6 MIllion"

I apologise if this has already been debated. It is worthy of mention. The 6 million figure STATED as lost during WWII by Zionist sources is to align the creation of the illegal secular State of Israel with the Torah.
The Zionists had to "lose 6 million" to end the diaspora and enable the "Jewish people to return to Biblical Israel" in accordance with the Torah. Of course, the Zionists were just staging events in line with the Torah, because nothing done to enable the return of the Jews nor the creation of the illegal secular nation of Israel was God's work or in line with Torah prophecy.

The lost 6 million has been debunked many times, with the likely TOTAL death toll of European Jews during WWII estimated at 4 million.

For those who aren't religious or don't follow it, unfortuantely, the lost 6 million is deeply rooted in Biblical prophecy.

Here is a good work explaining it, and the several times prior to WWII that the Zionists had "lost 6 milllion" before and after the signing of the Balfour Declaration in 1917.

Quote:
The word "holocaust" means burnt offering: "Amongst different animal offerings in the Jerusalem shrine there was one that was forbidden to be eaten neither by the donators nor by the priests for it had to be burnt entirely. The Hebrew word for this offering was 'ola' (literally translated: climbing up). The Greek translation of the Torah used the word 'holocauston' (entirely burnt) instead. The 'ola' was, as long as offerings were in effect and practised, the highest expression of total devotion to God." [Yehuda Radday in "The Parliament", the official government weekly paper, Bonn, nr. 5, May 24, 1977, p. 19]

Jewish ritual slaughter for "kosher" meat consumption and "offerings to God"


The ritual slaughter of animals is a very special and affectionate custom in Jewish life. They cut the animals throat wide open in order to drive the animal into a rage whereby the blood is agonizingly pumped out of the creatures body. Depending on the species the divine death throes can take up to four hours. By each body motion a fountain of blood gushes out of the "sacrificial lamb's" throat. The animals go mad during this ordeal.

Ritual offerings belong to Jewish history as Abraham and Moses. Yaweh, God of Zion, demanded always the most gruesome deeds from his ilk, like ritual slaughter and the burning of slaughtered cadavers. This God mapped it out in great detail for his followers (Torah, Old Testament) describing how he wanted the burnt offerings to be served. He intoxicates himself by the stink of smouldering cadavers over burning wood as "an aroma pleasing the LORD". He then demands from his terrified subjects: "sprinkle the blood against the altar on all sides. From the fellowship offering he is to bring a sacrifice made to the LORD by fire: all the fat that covers the inner parts or is connected to them, both kidneys with the fat on them near the loins, and the covering of the liver, which he will remove with the kidneys. ... as an offering made by fire, an aroma pleasing the LORD." [Leviticus 3:2-5]

But animal offerings, which were bad enough, were not enough to satisfy Yaweh's blood lust entirely and he upped the stakes by demanding human offerings. Moreover, he even ordered his followers to holocaust their own children: »Then God said, "Take your son, your only son, Isaac, whom you love, and go to the region of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains I will tell you about."« [Genesis 22, 2]

The Jews, being very intimate with God's predilections, pledged weighty holocaust offerings whenever they begged for a favour or for help in times of desperate straits: "And Jephthah made a vow to the LORD: 'If you give the Ammonites into my hands, whatever comes out of the door of my house to meet me when I return in triumph from the Ammonites will be the LORD's, and I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering'." [Judges 11:30,31]

For the permission to return to the Promised Land, God allegedly demanded from them a "6-Million-Holocaust-Offering", so the high priests interpreted a Torah prophecy that reads: "You shall return" (due to a spelling mistake the priests interpret it this way "You shall return, minus 6 million")

This self-imposed prophesy – without fulfilment of this prophesy the return to the Promised Land would not be permitted – led to the 1919 "six-million-prophecy-crash". Based on the Balfour-Declaration of 1917 the state of Israel was guaranteed, and the Diaspora-Jews would return to the "Promised Land". The leading Jews at that time expected 1920 a migration of their brethren into "their Land". But, before the return could take place, "6 million" of them had to disappear, according to the wrongly interpreted prophecy.

In fact, Jewish organisations proclaimed already in 1919 a "6 million-holocaust", taking place in the Ukraine: "Six million men and women are dying; eight-hundred-thousand children cry for bread. And this fate is upon them through no fault of their own, through no transgression of the law of God or man; but through the awful tyranny of war and a bigoted lust for Jewish blood. In this threatened holocaust of human life ..." [The American Hebrew, Oct. 31, 1919, Nbr. 582]

Since the global political situation was such, that the founding of the state of Israel was not possible, the whole "6 million" idea of 1919 was simply put on ice. However, the fulfilment of this prophecy is now taking place in the courtrooms of Europe, where verdict after verdict against critical historians, serve as "judicial notice" proof that the holocaust-version of "6 million" Jewish victims murdered in the "burning ovens" of the Nazis "took place", meaning, that the prophecy is fulfilled and the "Chosen People" can now return to Israel with the permission of the Cabala.

Those "6 million", which must allegedly missing in order to return to the "Promised Land", is said to be Yaweh's way of cleansing the Jewish souls of all sins, since a return of sinful and unclean souls is not permitted. The cleansing of the "chosen" souls was to be administered in "burning ovens": "God said: Could I forget the holocaust-victims? Rabbi Tanchum, Chanilias son said: In the hour, when Hananja, Misael and Asarja stepped out of the burning ovens, the people of the world came together to strike the haters of Israel in the face." [The Talmud, Goldmann Publishers, Munich 1980, pages 138, 225]
http://globalfire.tv/nj/04en/religion/6million.htm

Last edited by lets blow; 05-12-2012 at 03:50 AM.
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