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Old 01-02-2008, 12:13 AM   #1
them
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Default Spacetime

We know that time on earth differs from time in.. space.. gravity has got something to do with it.


made up picture of a graviton

If the earth entered an area of spacetime, with an extreme bias in the speed of time - within the fabric of spacetime - would we even notice on earth?




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Old 01-02-2008, 01:44 AM   #2
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What makes you think Gravity is a real force and not an electro-magnetic phenomenon, them?
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Old 01-02-2008, 08:14 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by cruise4 View Post
What makes you think Gravity is a real force and not an electro-magnetic phenomenon, them?
I can't know that G is a real force with any more certainty than the conclusions I reach based on the information/data available to me.

I realise that's a flakey answer too..

It's been suggested that electromagnetism and gravity influence one another enough for gravity's pull to be noticeably affected by the Earth's magnetic field.

This appeals to me because the idea conjures into existence several extra spatial dimensions.




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I think I would be safe in saying that the current general understanding in the physics community is that gravity is not a byproduct of electromagnetic force but they are considered to be two of the fundamental forces. The other two are known as the “strong” and “weak” forces (physicists show such imagination with names!)

These four forces are considered fundamental because they are considered to explain all observed physical processes. ie Any force between two objects is due to one or another of these interactions. The relativistic quantum field theory also describes four carrier particles for each of these forces. Photons (electromagnetic), bosons (weak), gluons (strong) and gravitons (gravitational). However , according to the SLAC article this theory is acknowledged as incomplete. So the lack of experimental evidence for gravitons and the fact that the theory does not explain how the fundamental particle masses are generated, provides considerable opportunities for physicists to complete the theory. Other forces and carrier particles have been proposed and as has previously been the case, proof of such fundamental particles or forces would definitely be considered a Nobel prize level achievement.

However, there has been continuous serious investigation into the possibility that gravity and electromagnetic forces are linked. Unified theories of forces have been of continuous interest to physicists. Some of the more famous examples include Maxwell in 1855 who showed electric and magnetic lines of force could be described by a single set of equations; Einstein died working on a unified field theory to explain the relationship between gravitation and electromagnetism and more recently, the 1999 Nobel Prize was awarded for work toward deriving a unified framework for all the theoretical forces (Hooft).

Unfortunately for mere mortals, as distinct from theoretical physicists, papers such as Hooft’s are virtually inaccessible. Their titles may contain “familiar” words such as gravitational forces, black holes, big bang, space and time, however due to their complex mathematics it is impossible for mere mortals to understand their true value. For this, the non-mathematically inclined have to rely on the processes of peer review of scientific papers. Results are published, assessed for internal integrity, repeatability and alignment with
experimental results by their suitably qualified peers. I think this is why we rely so much on the source of the publication… and thus a Nobel prize winning physicist or Stanford Linear Accelerator Center site are considered more reputable sources than a science fiction fan site. (Of course the Nobel prize winning physicist could also be a science fictin writer or fan!)

Working out what is known and unknown is also made difficult for laymen because Nobel winning scientists and science fiction authors may have similar sounding and unsupported theories. However, the Nobel winning scientist is likely to have arrived at the theory from years of complex mathematics and be much better able to identify whether an experimental result or observation is consistent or inconsistent with the theory. The origin of the universe is one such area. Where, even in the scientific community, there exist many conflicting theories…

This Georgia State University site discusses the theory of unification of all of the four forces in the high temperatures of the big bang

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu...tro/unify.html

In summary, yes the link between forces is of vital interest in the highest circles of theoretical and experimental physics and is subject of multi-million dollar research and is taken very seriously. However, like many complex concepts, speculation and trivialization are also rife.


Stanford Linear Accelerator Virtual Visitor Center(SLAC) provides a
very good overview of current accepted theory.
http://www2.slac.stanford.edu/vvc/theory.html

American Institute of Physics (AIP)
Describes fundamental forces and Hooft's work.
http://www.aip.org/physnews/graphics/html/fforces.htm

Nobel Prize Site
http://www.nobel.se/physics/laureates/1999/press.html

Hooft, Gerard, Home Page
http://www.phys.uu.nl/~thooft/

Hooft, Gerard, Distinguishing causal time from Minkowski time and a
model for the black hole quantum eigenstates, an example paper.
http://xxx.lanl.gov/PS_cache/gr-qc/pdf/9711/9711053.pdf
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Old 01-02-2008, 08:28 AM   #4
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Abstract.

We report on the possibility of detecting a submillimetre-sized extra dimension by observing gravitational waves (GWs) emitted by point-like objects orbiting a braneworld black hole. Matter in the `visible' universe can generate a discrete spectrum of high frequency GWs with amplitudes moderately weaker than the predictions of general relativity, while GW signals generated by matter on a `shadow' brane hidden in the bulk are potentially strong enough to be detected using current technology. We know of no other astrophysical phenomena that produce GWs with a similar spectrum, which stresses the need to develop detectors capable of measuring this high-frequency signature of large extra dimensions..

http://www.iop.org/EJ/article/0264-9...qg7_9_f01.html

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Old 01-02-2008, 11:14 AM   #5
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As far as I'm aware no one has been able to detect a gravity wave and it remains a hypothesis.
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Old 01-02-2008, 11:26 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by baron von lotsov View Post
As far as I'm aware no one has been able to detect a gravity wave and it remains a hypothesis.
Yep, that's my understanding of where we are at too.
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Old 01-02-2008, 07:16 PM   #7
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"Unfortunately for mere mortals, as distinct from theoretical physicists, papers such as Hooft’s are virtually inaccessible. Their titles may contain “familiar” words such as gravitational forces, black holes, big bang, space and time, however due to their complex mathematics it is impossible for mere mortals to understand their true value."

Thanks for the replies. My intuition tells me that when the above occurs, its a sure sign they have got it wrong and are resorting to mental gymnastics to overcome their wrongness. I don't expect anyone to agree with that necessarily, but I have a hunch that God's genius is in the simplicity from which complexity and mis-interpretation arises.
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Old 04-02-2008, 12:51 PM   #8
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Is time an illusion?


http://www.mnartists.org/article.do?rid=69116


At reality's deepest level it remains unknown whether time will remain strong or simply melt away like a Salvidor Dali clock. Perhaps time is all a matter of perspective, not a feature of reality but a result of your missing information about reality.. So, if your brain starts hurting whenever you contemplate time, relax.



If you really knew time might simply disappear.
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Old 15-04-2008, 03:20 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by them View Post


Yep, that's my understanding of where we are at too.
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http://www. ***********************/sm/custom/omrrcteq.gif
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Re: the plan...... Quote

Fwd: RE: Chicago arrival....‏
Fra: leo young ([email protected])
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Old 15-04-2008, 03:22 PM   #10
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Hey edit i feel like changing my desktop picture any chance of posting a nice image please?
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Old 15-04-2008, 03:25 PM   #11
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try this 49
[IMG]http://www.***********************/sm/custom/omrrcteq.gif[/IMG]
http://www.
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Old 15-04-2008, 06:14 PM   #12
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Gravity is an EM phenomenon.
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Old 15-04-2008, 09:05 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zero1 View Post
Gravity is an EM phenomenon.
Time will tell
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Old 15-04-2008, 10:24 PM   #14
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Nice info thanks, didn't know about latest theories

My personal theory is that there is no such thing as "paranormal" and time does not exist, I knew that from childhood somehow.
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Old 15-04-2008, 10:28 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by them View Post


Time will tell
What do you mean? "Time" won't tell you anything, especially if you're only waiting to hear what you want to hear.

If you have an alternate theory, present it.

But don't doubt me, because I think I know...
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Old 15-04-2008, 10:32 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cruise4 View Post
"Unfortunately for mere mortals, as distinct from theoretical physicists, papers such as Hooft’s are virtually inaccessible. Their titles may contain “familiar” words such as gravitational forces, black holes, big bang, space and time, however due to their complex mathematics it is impossible for mere mortals to understand their true value."

Thanks for the replies. My intuition tells me that when the above occurs, its a sure sign they have got it wrong and are resorting to mental gymnastics to overcome their wrongness. I don't expect anyone to agree with that necessarily, but I have a hunch that God's genius is in the simplicity from which complexity and mis-interpretation arises.
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Old 15-04-2008, 11:58 PM   #17
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Since originally replying to this I have read about time speeding up the nearer to the centre of the Galaxy you get, or something like that. No... I don't think we would know. Perhaps we might 'feel' it. Goes along with Ian Xel Lungold and his analysis of the Mayan Calender.
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Old 16-04-2008, 12:56 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by them View Post
We know that time on earth differs from time in.. space.. gravity has got something to do with it.


made up picture of a graviton

If the earth entered an area of spacetime, with an extreme bias in the speed of time - within the fabric of spacetime - would we even notice on earth?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spacetime




I would say yes.
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Old 16-04-2008, 06:01 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by romas View Post
Nice info thanks, didn't know about latest theories
You're welcome

Quote:
Originally Posted by zero1 View Post
What do you mean? "Time" won't tell you anything, especially if you're only waiting to hear what you want to hear.

If you have an alternate theory, present it.

But don't doubt me, because I think I know...

If you have an alternate theory, present it

Quote:
Originally Posted by cruise4 View Post
Since originally replying to this I have read about time speeding up the nearer to the centre of the Galaxy you get, or something like that. No... I don't think we would know. Perhaps we might 'feel' it. Goes along with Ian Xel Lungold and his analysis of the Mayan Calender.
What interests me is how we could know, cruise. It also just reminds me of a passage from one of Anton-Wilson books where the characters are travelling (on Earth) through a section of spacetime where coincidences happen more often. I think I was there yesterday, lol.
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Old 16-04-2008, 06:05 PM   #20
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Quote:
If the earth entered an area of spacetime, with an extreme bias in the speed of time - within the fabric of spacetime - would we even notice on earth?
yes, someone will note some changes
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