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Old 03-11-2011, 08:24 PM   #1
nowheretorun
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Default Zeitgeist, History Rewritten (New Doc)

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Old 03-11-2011, 09:43 PM   #2
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1. In the FIRST FEW WORDS, you lied. This is not the COPY CAT theory.

WHERE DID YOU COME UP WITH THAT?

The ONLY people that want to call it the COPY CAT theory are the Christians that think that two things have to be the EXACTLY the same for one to come from the other.

If you are Chris White, I have another bone to pick with you. Not only did I give you PROOF of this a long time ago, but you also LIED and said no one had given you proof, but since it was in the "wrong format" you wouldn't accept it. SO HERE GOES.

Now you cannot DENY it...

This is my presentation of the information regarding the parallels between Jesus and the various
sun gods of the past.

Often we have seen people start off their arguments against Zeitgeist based on one faulty premise after another. One of those faulty premises that we often see is that the Roman's invented the crucifixion. While it is true that many sources say that online, those sources may not always be correct. Most often we hear that argument from Christians themselves. So I am going to use their own sources to show that these parallels are true and that Romans did not invent the crucifixion.

Crucify-http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H8518&t=KJV

Note that the Gesenius Lexicon states -H8518 To hang anyone on a stake, to crucify, a form of punishment among the Israelits, the Egyptians, and the Persians.
It also lists the first crucifixion as being in Genesis 40:19 Within three days Pharaoh will lift off your head and impale your body on a pole. And the birds will eat away your flesh.”

It was a Pharaoh that is mentioned in this crucifixion, and Pharoahs are from Egypt.

The old testament god also used crucifixion as a means of punishment here:

Deut. 21: 22 If someone guilty of a capital offense is put to death and their body is exposed on a pole, 23 you must not leave the body hanging on the pole overnight because anyone who is hung on a tree is under God's curse. You must not desecrate the land the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance.

Notice here that the different versions sway between a pole and a tree here http://bible.cc/deuteronomy/21-23.htm

We find by looking at these two verses that a cross is inconsequential to the actual crucifixion. This is not what crucifixion was about, as we can see here using the Lexicon. It was a form of corporeal punishment. This corporeal punishment is still being done today as they inject the criminal in front of a public audience or years ago when there were public hangings. We will find that a cross is not necessary and not always prevalent in the various myths. Sometimes it is just a pole, stake, wood, or tree as both of these are used in the Bible. As shown in the Deuteronomy verse, death on a pole while being exposed was used by Yahweh as punishment.

One of the problems with the copycat theory that some Christians argue against is that they think that the bible came first and these other religions copied off of their bible. So they look for similarities in the Egyptian, Greek, Sumerian and other myths to see if they match the bible, what they should be doing is checking to see if the bible matches the older myths. If you think someone is copying something, you do not look at the original to see if they are copying, you look at their paper to see if there are parallels to what they are accused of copying. One of the problems though is that until recently, these texts were not available to the average person so most of us do not know the stories of Osiris, Horus, Attis, Buddha, unless we have taken it upon ourselves to study them.
If someone wants to get away with plagiarism, they do not copy word for word, they use the original as a format and then make up stuff as they go along that fits into what the orginal says. My claim is that the Romans used the earlier pagan-sun cult texts to create a new religion and to write the bible. This would explain the reason why they wanted to wipe out the Pagan texts and temples. This is what was done with the myths before the bible with all the different myths and gods while most of them were actually conflated. It is no more proposterous to claim that Jesus is a myth than it is for Buddha.

Horus
1. Born on Dec 25th

Macrobius
(Saturnalia, I, XVIII:10):
"...[10] These differences in age have reference to the sun, for at the winter solstice the sun would seem to be a little child, like that which the Egyptians bring forth from a shrine on an appointed day, since the day is then at its shortest and the god is accordingly shown as a tiny infant.” "

"Macrobius continues to identify other gods with the sun as well as the 12 signs of the Zodiac in Saturnalia 1.21.12:

"This is their sign for Osiris, and by it they indicate that this god is the sun, which with royal power looks down upon the world from on high. And indeed in ancient usage the sun is called the eye of Jupiter.
Among the Egyptians Apollo (and he is the sun) is called Horus —whence the name “hours” (horae) has been given to 24 divisions which make up a day and a night and to the four seasons [#8037;#961;#945;#953;] which together complete the cycle of the year It has also been a practice of the Egyptians, when they wish to dedicate a statue of the sun under its own name, to represent it with the head shaved except on the right side, where the hair is allowed to remain. The hair that is kept shows that the sun In never hidden from the world of nature, and the retention of the roots after the locks have been sure indicates that it is an essential property of the song even when it is invisible to us, to reappear like those locks. This same attribute of a half-shorn head is also a symbol of the time when the light is reduced and when the sun, as though shorn of its growth and with a mere stubble, so to speak, remaining, comes to the shortest day (which the men of old called the winter solstice, using the word bruma for winter, from the shortness of the day, as though to say “short day.” But when the sun rises again from its narrow retreat, it reaches out to the summer hemisphere, growing in strength as though by a process of birth, and it is believed to have come then into its own realm. That is why, among the signs of the zodiac, the Egyptians have dedicated an animal, the lion, in that part of the heavens where in its yearly course the sun’s powerful heat is hottest. And the Sign of the Lion there they call “The House of the Sun,” because a lion seems to derive its essential qualities from the natural properties of the sun."

Note how he says: "has been given to 24 divisions which make up a day and a night" as this will show to be important in the 12 followers of Horus.

Osiris: death and afterlife of a god By Dr. Bojana Mojsov Page 13
"The symbol of the savior child was the was the eye of the sun newly born on the winter solstice."
She also states:
"From their mysterious, passionate union the child Horus was born on the winter solstice."
Dr. Bohana Mojsov is an archaeologist, historian and writer. From 2002 to 2007 she researched and documented objects from the latest archaeological excavations in the National Museum and the Biblioteca Alexandrina in Alexandria. Dr Bojana Mojsov is the leading egyptologist involved in the physical conservation of Setti; I tomb.

When was the winter solstice?

*The Oxford Handbook of Church and State in the United States - Derek Davis
Page 285
"Between these two celebrations fell 'December 25, the winter solstice' by calendars of the time"
Derek H. Davis, B.A., M.A., J.D., Ph.D., is a graduate of Baylor University and Baylor Law School and holds a Master of Arts in Church-State Studies from Baylor University and a Doctor of Philosophy in Humanities from the University of Texas at Dallas.

Marking time: the epic quest to invent the perfect calendar By Duncan Steel Page 109
"In the preceding chapter we saw that the pagan midwinter festival of the unconquered sun, at the winter solstice, was held on December 25th; under Constantine this became accepted as the appropriate date for Christmas, celebrating Christ's birth. In fact, that is the traditional date for the winter solstice on the Julian calendar..."
Dr Duncan I. Steel, BSc, MSc, DIC, PhD, FRAS (born 11 June 1955), is a British/Australian scientist born in Midsomer Norton, Somerset. He is a world-renowned space science authority who has worked with NASA...

This is very important because as we see, Jesus birthday was chosen for the winter solstice also:

"The birth of Christ was assigned the date of the winter solstice (December 25 in the Julian calendar, January 6 in the Egyptian), because on this day, as the Sun began its return to northern skies, the pagan devotees of Mithras celebrated the Dies Natalis Solis Invicti (Birthday of the Invincible Sun). On December 25, 274, [Roman Emperor] Aurelian had proclaimed the Sun God the principal patron of the Empire and dedicated a temple to Him in the Campus Martius. Christmas originated at a time when the cult of the Sun was particularly strong at Rome."
-- New Catholic Encyclopaedia (Vol. III, p.656, 1967 ed.)

Dictionary of Jesus and the Gospels
By Joel B. Green Page 69
"Both the traditional western date for Christmas (December 25) and the date observed by the Armenian Chrurch (January 6th) are equally possible".
Joel B. Green, Ph.D. is Associate Dean for the Center for Advanced Theological Studies and Professor of New Testament Interpretation at Fuller Theological...

The Meaning, Celebration and Date of Christmas, Samuele Bacchiocchi, p.14
"the date of Christ’s birth did not become an issue until sometime in the fourth century. At that time the dispute centered primarily over two dates for Christ’s birth: December 25 promoted by the Church of Rome and January 6, known as the Epiphany, observed by the Eastern churches. “Both these days,were pagan festivals whose meaning provided a starting point for the specifically Christian conception of Christmas."
Sameule Bacchiocchi-For his college education he went to England where he earned a B. A. degree in Theology at Newbold College. From England he came to America for his graduate studies and earned a M. A. and a B. D. degrees at Andrews University Theological Seminary. Upon completing his seminary training in 1964...

There are at least 16 different myths or aspects of Horus, many people make the mistake of citing one aspect and thinking that it covers the sum total of the myth of Horus but that is one aspect of a god that had many names and faces. Just to name a few, there is Horus the elder, Horus the son of Isis, Horus the younger as Harpocrates, there are also reincarnations of Horus. Horus the elder was said to be born in the Egyptian month Cheops, this is not the same aspect of Horus that is the son of Isis, Horus the elder would be considered Osiris and Isis's brother. Horus the elder is the sky god, Horus the son of Isis and Osiris is the sun god. Horus the elders cult predates the cults of Isis and Osiris and this is why Isis and Osiris were assigned to be the parents of Horus. This is also how Isis remains a virgin.


Horus as Harpocrates, child of the winter solstice
Christian C. J. Bunsen, D.P.h. & D.C.L.



2. Born of a virgin

“The Egyptian goddess who was equally the Great Virgin (hwnt) and Mother of the God was; the object of the very same praise bestowed upon her successor [Mary, Virgin Mother of Jesus]” - "Isis in the ancient world" by Egyptologist Dr. Reginald E. Witt.
Dr. Reginald E. Witt, Egyptologist and professor at the University of London

Theological Dictionary of the Old Testament, Volume 2 By G. Johannes Botterweck, Helmer Ringgren Page 338-339
"In a text in the Abydos Temple of Seti !, Isis herself declares: "I am the great VIRGIN"
"Botterweck studied philosophy , Catholic theology and oriental studies in Frankfurt and Vienna . In 1944 he received his doctorate in Vienna, Dr. phil. and was ordained a priest in the same year."

*Dictionary of deities and demons in the Bible DDD By K. van der Toorn, Bob Becking, Pieter Willem van der Horst#65279; Page 891
"In Egypt the epithets 'dd.t, rnn.t and hwn.t, 'girl; young woman; virgin', are applied to many goddesses — eg-* Hathor and
;Isis — who had not yet had sexual intercourse."

Osiris: death and afterlife of a god By Bojana Mojsov Page 94
"Isis and her child had an even bigger following: she came to be worshiped as the primordial virgin and her infant the Savior of the World."

The Nostratic macrofamily and linguistic palaeontology"
A. Dolgopolski#301;, Colin Renfrew, McDonald Institute for Archaeological Research - 1998 - 116 pages - Snippet view
Egyptian hwn 'boy, young man; (one's) child, son', hwn.t 'girl, virgin', hwn v. 'become young' || Uralic *wa"NV > [1] Finno-Ugric *warju 'daughter's husband, younger brother' >
Andrew Colin Renfrew, Baron Renfrew of Kaimsthorn, Ph.D., FBA, FSA, HonFSAScot (born 25 July 1937 in Stockton-on-Tees) is a prominent British archaeologist and highly regarded academic, noted for his work on radiocarbon dating, the prehistory of languages, archaeogenetics, and the prevention of looting at archaeological sites.

African presence in early Europe By Ivan Van Sertima
Page 110
"The infant Horus was begotten of the resurrected god Osiris and the Virgin goddess Isis"
Page 116
"She was known as the "Great Mother", "the Tender Mother", "personification of feminity", "Immaculate Virgin"..."
Ivan Van Sertima was a historian, linguist and anthropologist at Rutgers University in the United States


Introduction to the history of Christianity By Tim Dowley Page 141
"The devotees of Isis, herself called the "Great Virgin" and "Mother of God", naturally tended to look for Mary for comfort when paganism was outlawed and their temples destroyed at the end of the fourth century."
Tim Dowley Ph.D. in church history, University of Manchester



One of the aspects of Horus was the sun god and this is why he would be referred to as the star in the east. The sun is a star and it rises in the east.Ra-Horakhty means Ra(who is Horus of the two horizons). Ra and Horus were assimilated or conflated to become one god as were Osiris and Horus.


3. Star in the East

The Ancient Egyptian Pyramid Texts By R. O. Faulkner
"You are this lone star that comes forth from the east of the sky, and who will surrender himself to Horus of the Netherworld..."

The Ancient Egyptian Pyramid Texts By R. O. Faulkner
Pages 173, 174,
Also note on pages 40, 154, 161, 184, 192, 205 Horus is the morning star...
Dr Raymond Oliver Faulkner, FSA, (26 December 1894 — 3 March 1982) was an English Egyptologist and philologist of the ancient Egyptian language.

One of the myths of Osiris was that he was the anthropomorphized Orion. Orion's belt has three stars and these three stars have been referred to to as the three kings. Although the bible itself does not mention three kings, it mentions three gifts brought to Jesus. As most of us have been to Christmas plays, we have seen the tradition of the three kings coming to give these three gifts to the baby Jesus lying in a manger.

4. Adored by 3 kings

The Ancient Egyptian Pyramid Texts By R. O. Faulkner
Page 147 NOTE ON PAGE 148 #2
referring to Osiris as Orion...

Sketch of the religions of the world -
Robert Shaw (M. A.) Page 211
"That was once the star of the three kings ; for the " three kings" is still the-name of the three stars in Orion's belt; and in the hieroglyphics a three-looped string is a symbol of Sahu, that is, the constellsition Orion.
This book was added to show historicity of the "three kings/orion", it was written in 1904.


Star gods of the Maya: astronomy in art, folklore, and calendars - Page 39 by Susan Milbrath -
"Not surprisingly, Orion is commonly connected with the number three, because the three bright stars in Orion's Belt are easily seen, even with the full moon nearby. The Tzeltal refer to Orion's Belt as "three king[s]"
Susan Milbrath
Dr. Susan Milbrath. Curator of Latin American Art and Archaeology


Isis was the anthropomorphiziation of Sirius/Sothis.

The Ancient Egyptian Pyramid Texts By R. O. Faulkner Page 155 after Utterance 466 NOTE: #1
1. Procyon? Hardly Sirius, which is always the fem. Spdt, Sothis...

The ancient Egyptian pyramid texts By James P. Allen Page 441
"Sothis, Spdt,(sharp) The morning star, Sirus, seen by the Egyptians as a goddess."
Note: Horus in Sothis
James P. Allen received his PhD from the University of Chicago. Before joining Brown in 2007, Prof. Allen was an epigrapher with the University of Chicago's Epigraphic Survey, Cairo Director of the American Research Center in Egypt, and curator of Egyptian art at the Metropolitan Museum of Art. He is also President of the International Association of Egyptologists.

The Egyptian Book of the Dead: The Book of Going Forth by Day By Raymond O. Faulkner, Carol Andrews, James Wasserman Page 175 Sothis, "Sirus, the Dog Star...Sometime takes the role of Isis."
In 633 "Horus is "Sopd" who came from Osiris in Isis."

Ancient Egyptian science: a source book. Knowledge and Order, Volume 1 By Marshall Clagett
Heliacal rising of Sirus and Sothic periods in Ancient Egypt Marshall Clagett Page 226
"Isis-Sothis (i.e. Sirius) [Immediately below is a standing] goddess holding a was scepter."
Marshall Clagett began his undergraduate education in 1933 at the California Institute of Technology. He obtained both the A.B. and M.A. from George Washington University in 1937. In 1941, he received his Ph.D. in history from Columbia University.

This is how Isis (as Sothis) can have a child and still remain a virgin. The Egyptians were telling stories of the stars in the sky. One of the different aspects of Isis was that she was Egyptian version of Virgo.

"The importance of Sirius, the brightest star in the sky, to the ancient Egyptians would be hard to overstate. Around 3000 B.C., Sirius made its first annual appearance in the eastern sky before dawn near the time of the summer solstice. This so-called heliacal rising marked the rebirth of the star after solar conjunction and was a harbinger of the annual flood of the Nile River — the lifeblood of this ancient civilization."
http://www.astronomy.com/en/Web%20Ex...onnection.aspx

The Ancient Egyptian Pyramid Texts By R. O. Faulkner Page 120
"Your sister Isis comes to you rejoicing for love of you. You have placed her on your phallus and your seed issues into her, she being ready as Sothis and Har Sopd has come forth from you as Horus who is in Sothis."

Conceptions of God in Ancient Egypt: The One by Erik Hornung, John Baines Page 144
"Isis conceives Horus by hovering over the dead Osiris in the form of a kite." My Note (as Sothis)

Akhenaten and the Religion of Light by Erik Hornung, David Lorton
Page 56 "I am the son that emerged from his father, I am the father that emerged from his son" about Horus and Osiris being one.
Page 91 "Horus was born when his mother did not yet exist." My Note: (Horus the Elder)
Pages 93/94 about the one and only god and the trinity

This is how Horus can be seen standing at his own conception.

ReMembering Osiris: number, gender, and the word in ancient Egyptian ... By Tom Hare
"It is disconcerting to find an adult Horus here assisting at his own conception; in order to explain this away the circularity of this construction and the puzzling multiplicity of Horus, both ancient and modern scholars have resorted to variations of the myth."
Thomas Blenman Hare is William Sauter LaPorte '28 Professor in Regional Studies and Professor of Comparative Literature at Princeton University.

Further explanation:
The origins of Osiris and his cult By John Gwyn Griffiths
Page 13
"It is therefore likely that Horus-sopd as the offspring of Osiris-Orion and Isis-Sothis is an astral concept in the first place and the Osirian complexion of the idea is secondary, although, as we shall see, the bond between Osiris and Orion was important in one other respect."
Page 129
When the Heliopolitan priesthood made Isis the mother of Horus the child, they were perhaps consciously varying the early tradition of Hathor being the mother of Horus but it is clear that the creation of the young Horus arises mythologically from the position resulting rom the identification of Osiris and the King.
"An astral connexion of Osiris and Isis seems to explain an episode concernting the birth of a form of Horus. Spell 366 of the Pyramid texts describes the birth of Horus Sopd to Isis in her form of Sothis....continued. The last sentence is not particlurly Osirian but later (628a) it is said that there come to the thy two sisters Isis and Nephthys; they make the better. It seems likely that the concluding part of the spell refers to Osiris, who is described as begetting Horus-Sopd from Isis-Sothis..."
John Gwyn Griffiths obtained an M.A. degree at Liverpool University on the influence of Ancient Egypt on Greek religion in the Mycenean period. Between 1936 and 1937 he was an archaeological assistant with the Egyptian Exploration Society at Sesebi, Lower Nubia. Having studied at Queen's College, Oxford from 1936 to 1939 he obtained a D.Phil degree from Oxford University on the quarrel of Horus and Seth in 1949.

Now, some might ask why Horus being present at his own conception would be a parallel to the story of Jesus but the bible states that Jesus was present in the beginning, as Jesus was part of the trinity, he too, was present at his conception in the form of the Holy Spirit.


5. Teacher at 12

Another aspect of Horus was reincarntion. In this story of Si-Osiri ( Si-Osiri means son of Osiris, literally he is the son of Khamuas) is the reincarnation of Horus son of Paneh.

http://www.reshafim.org.il/ad/egypt/texts/khamuas.htm
"Si-Osiri. Numerous are the marvels that he shall do in the land of Egypt."

"That Amen may not find for me evil nor the Kwr of (?) Egypt cause [abomination be done to me], I would (?) cast my magic up to Egypt that I might cause the people of Egypt to pass three days (and) three nights without seeing light except the kiki ?."

Horus, son of Pa-neshe, swore an oath by Pharaoh and the gods of Egypt, saying: 'I will not remove my spell, until you have sworn an oath to me not to return up to Egypt for any kind (?) of purpose (?).'"
Source: Griffith, F. Ll, Stories of the High Priests of Memphis; The Sethon of Herodotus and The Demotic Tales of Khamuas
F. Ll. G. Francis Llewellyn Griffith, M.A., Ph.D., F.S.A.. Reader in Egyptology, Oxford University.

Khamaus-Si Orisi

http://www.archive.org/stream/storie...ge/42/mode/2up

At age 12-
"Now when the boy Si-Osiri had attained twelve years, it came to pass that there was no good scribe or learned man that rivaled him in reading and writing that compels."
http://www.archive.org/stream/storie...ge/50/mode/2up

This is another quite mythical dream sequence where all of the usual cast are present.

Egyptians also had baptism, though not called baptism, it was called a purification ritual that took place in lakes. Sometimes the Lake of the Jackal is mentioned in this purification ritual. Anubis was the Jackel headed god. Anup is Anubis. Christian Baptism in itself is a rite of passage or dying in the old ways and being born again in "Christ" in this same way, the king of Egypt was born again in Horus. Osiris was also born again in Horus. Pepi represents both Osiris and the king.

6. Baptized/ministry at 30

"They say unto Ra:--'Immerse thyself, O Ra, in thy holy lake, wherein the lord of the gods immersed himself, whereunto the souls of the dead approach not; this is what thou thyself hast commanded, O Khuti.' Their food consisteth of bread, their drink is [made] of the red [barley], and their vessels of drink are filled with wine. There is lamentation among them when they hear their doors close upon them. Their food is given unto them as lord[s] of their sceptres round about this lake."

Ancient Egyptian Religion: An Interpretation -Henri Frankfort - Page 113
"The followers of Horus purify Pepi, They bathe him, they dry him, They recite for him the Spell of the Right Way; They recite for him the Spell of Ascent. Pepi ascends to Heaven. He embarks in the boat of Re. Pepi commands for him"
Born in Amsterdam, Frankfort studied history at the University of Amsterdam and then moved to London, where in 1924, he took an MA under Sir Flinders Petrie at the University College. In 1927 he gained a Ph.D. from the University of Leiden.

The Ancient Egyptian Pyramid Texts By R. O. Faulkner Page 188 Pyramid Text 512
"Raise yourself, my father, recieve these your Four pleasant provision-jars
bathe in the Lake of Anubis (Anup), be cleansed in the Lake of the Netherworld."

Dictionary of Jesus and the Gospels - Page 55
Joel B. Green, Scot McKnight, I. Howard Marshall
"Water is the element naturally used for cleansing the body, and its symbolic use entered into almost every ... The ritual of washing was similar to baptism in its purifying implications"
Joel B. Green has been associate dean for the Center for Advanced Theological Studies since 2008 and professor of New Testament interpretation at Fuller Theological Seminary

The New Testament in antiquity By Gary M. Burge, Lynn H. Cohick, Gene L. Green Page 203
Egyptian Baptism
Gary M. Burge. Professor of New Testament at Wheaton College

As a rite of Passage
Religions of the ancient world: a guide By Sarah Iles Johnston Page 439
Babies getting their names
Sarah Johnston Ph.D. Cornell 1987 · M.A. Cornell 1983 · B.A. (Classics) Univ. Kansas 1980 · B.S. (Journalism) Univ. Kansas 1979

Gods of our fathers: the memory of Egypt in Judaism and Christianity By Richard A. Gabriel page 185
Richard A. Gabriel is a distinguished professor in the Department of History and War Studies at the Royal Military College of Canada and in the Department

Ancient Egypt By David P. Silverman Page 157
Baptism of the Pharoah explained
Dr. David P. Silverman serves as the curator, advisor and academic content creator for Tutankhamun and the. Golden Age of the Pharaohs
Pharaoh

The Ancient Egyptian Pyramid Texts By R. O. Faulkner Page 7
Utterance 35
"Your purification is the purification of Horus...Seth, Thoth..."


Like Jesus, Horus had twelve followers. These followers were the hours of the daylight while the other twelve were the hours of the night. As stated in the Book of Gates, Horus's follwers were gods, he gave them the Eucharist of bread and wine and then commissioned them to revenge his father against the evil. Note in this passage, Horus states that he is begot by Osiris.


7. 12 disciples
The Pyramid Texts state that Horus DID have followers.
Utterances 453-486:
897a. "Thou causest the Followers of Horus to be satisfied."
921a. "The Followers of Horus purify N."

Book of Gates Chapter 5

12 Gods behind the shrine
"Then saith Horus unto those gods who are behind the shrine:--
"Make inquisition for me, O gods who are in the following of Khenti Amenti, stand ye up, and withdraw ye not yourselves, and be ye masters over yourselves, and come, and live delicately on the bread of HU, and drink ye of the ale of Maat, and live ye upon that whereon my father liveth there. That which belongeth to you in the hidden place is to be behind the shrine, according to the commandment of Ra. I call unto you, and behold, it is for you to do what it is your duty [to do].' Their meat consisteth of cakes of bread, and their ale is of the tchesert drink, and their libations are [made with] cool water. Their food is given unto them by the guardian of the things which are in the shrine. And Horus saith unto these gods:--'Smite ye the enemies of my father, and hurl ye them down into your pits because of that deadly evil which they have done against the Great One, [which] found (?) him that begot me. That which belongeth to you to do in the Tuat is to guard the pits of fire according as Ra hath commanded, and I set [this] before you so that, behold, ye may do according to what belongeth to you [to do].' This god standeth over (or, by) the pits."

Explanation of the sun gods 12 here:
World mythology By Roy G. Willis Page 47
Roy Willis, Ph.D., is Honorary Fellow in Social Anthropology at the University of Edinburgh.
Also note the enemy of Osiris is the snake Apep just as the Satan in the Garden of Eden was a snake.




Horus as the sun or his many epiteths were miraculous in themselves, not only did he walk on water, he also resurrected Osiris and his own 4 children.



8. Performed miracles
The Egyptian Book of the dead: translation and commentary, Volume 1 By Edouard Naville Page 3
"The raising up or the resurrection here spoken of is not only the soul but of the body of the deceased person..." Also listed above under magic.
Horus raised his 4 children from the dead.



Naturally, Horus being the sun god, would represent the light of this world.

9. "Lamb of God"/"The Light"
The ancient Egyptian pyramid texts By James#65279; P. Allen Page 101
"Horus shall take account of you year by year, rejuvenated in your identity of the rejuvenated waters of the inundation, Horus has become BA, taking account of his father in you, in his identity of him of the Sovereign's BA sedan chair."

The Egyptian Book of the dead: translation and commentary, Volume 1 By Edouard Naville Page 8 states:
The Ram is called the Ba

Horus became the Ba Ram of Osiris.
aka lamb of god.

Page 29
"Sun and Moon are the two great lights..."
Horus of the two Horizons-Horus's two eyes, one is the sun and the other is the moon.

page 118 Read that whole Chapter....It is Horus Speaking...
"I am Yesterday, Today and Tomorrow, for I am born again and again, mine is the unseen force which createth the gods and giveth food to those in Tuat at the west of Heaven; I am the Eastern Rudder, the Lord of Two Faces, who seeth by his own light, the Lord of Resurrections, who cometh forth from the dusk and whose birth is from the House of Death."
Captaine Henri Édouard Naville (1844–1926) was a Swiss egyptologist. He studied in London, Paris and Berlin




With the crucifixion, dead for three days, and resurrection, we have to look at the texts regarding Osiris, the king, Horus. The King was reborn as Horus, at death he was reborn as Osiris. This is represented in the Sed Festival otherwise known as the Festival of Osiris. Notice, many of the tragedies that happened to Osiris, also happened to Horus. This is because of their assimilation that is represented in the Djed Pillar. Professor James Allen explains that Egyptian Monotheism is similar to the notion of the Christian trinity, which recognizes the existence of three aspects of Persons in a single god in his book "Middle Egyptian: An Introduction to the Language and Culture of Hieroglyphs" on page 187.
At Horus's birth, he was conflated with Osiris, he was the resurrection of Osiris. We also see that Horus died and was resurrected by Isis when he was a small child.
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Old 03-11-2011, 09:45 PM   #3
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10. Crucified
11. Dead for 3 days
12. Resurrected"

Horus's resurrection:

Unmasking the Pagan Christ: An Evangelical Response to the Cosmic Christ Idea By Stanley E. Porter, Steph
"The actual resurrection of Horus is described in this way:
Wake up, Horus, Thy protection is established, Make thou happy the heart of the mother Isis. The words of Horus
shall bind up hearts, he shall cause you to be at peace him who is in affliction. Let your hearts be happy, O ye who dwell in the heavens (Nut) Horus he who hath avenged or protected his father shall cause the poison to retreat. Verily that which is in the mouth of Ra shall go around (i.e. circulate) and the tongue of the Great God shall repulse [opposition]. The Boat [of Ra] standeth still, and travelleth not onwards. The Disk is in the [same] place where it was yesterday to heal Horus for his mother Isis..."
"At the basic leven there are some similarities in the stories of Horus and Jesus. Both are divine men who die and return to life."
President and Dean, Professor of New Testament
B.A. Point Loma College, San Diego, California
M.A. Claremont Graduate School, Claremont, California
M.A. Trinity Evangelical Divinity School, Deerfield, Illinois
Ph.D. University of Sheffield, England

To be read here:
http://www.masseiana.org/sorrows_of_isis.htm
"Then came Nephthys 203 shedding tears and uttering cries of lamentation, and going round about through the papyrus swamps. And Serq [came also and they said]: 204 "Behold, behold, what hath happened to Horus, son of Isis, and who [hath done it]? Pray then to heaven, 205 and let the mariners of Ra cease their labours for a space, for the Boat of Ra cannot travel onwards [whilst] son Horus 206 [lieth dead] on his place."
And Isis sent forth her voice into heaven, and made supplication to the Boat of Millions of Years, and the 207 Disk stopped in its journeying, and moved not from the place whereon it rested. Then came forth Thoth, who is equipped208 with his spells (or, words of power), and possesseth the great word of command of maa-kheru, [and said:] "What [aileth thee], what [aileth thee], O Isis, thou goddess who hast magical spells, 209 whose mouth hath understanding? Assuredly no evil thing hath befallen [thy] son Horus, [for] the Boat of Ra hath him under its protection. 210. I have come this day in the Divine Boat of the Disk from the place where it was yesterday, 211—now darkness came and the light was destroyed—in order to heal Horus for his mother 212 Isis and every person who is under the knife likewise."
Or Here:
http://egypt.annourbis.com/EgyptianL.../chapter7.html
Or Here
http://books.google.com/books?id=6nI...ed=0CDQQ6AEwAg

The Open court, Volume 34 edited by Paul Carus
"On the Metternich Stele there is a very ancient story of a mythical womans's son (doubtless the sun) who was revived by isis after being stung to death by a scorpion, in connection with which revivification wae fine the exclamation, " The child liveth and the poison dieth; the sun liveth and the poison dieth" and again in the same text, it is the (solar) Horus who is stung to death by a scorption to be revived by "the words of power" to be spoken by Thoth himself. Diodorus identifies Horus with the sun-god Apollo, and says that Isis discovered medicines that cured the sick and raised the dead; and that with these she restored her son Horus to life and made him immortal when she found his body in the water after he was slain by the Titans (this water being primarily the underworld sea, but secondarily belonging to the Egyptian watery signs of the zodiac and the Nile Inundation; while the scorpion belongs to the western horizon and the sign of Scorpio)
The Greeks identified Osiris with Dionysus...Osiris is also the Judge of the Dead and associated with the resurrection of mortals as well as being a resurrected god; and Dionysus has for one of his Greek epithets Zagreus (=He that restores to life, from zogreo=to take alive and to restore to life") According to Orphic theogony, Zagreus, son of Zeus and Persephone, was cut to pieces and boiled in a cauldron by the Titans; but his heart (as the seat of the soul) was recovered and eaten by Semele, and Zagreus was consequently reborn of her as Dionysus. (Pausan., VII, 37, 3) But to Diodorus, it was commonly reltated that the pieces of Dionysus zagreus were gathered by Demeter, who restored him to life...."
Paul Carus, Ph.D. was a German-American author, editor, a student of comparative religion, and professor of philosophy.

The secret lore of Egypt: its impact on the West By Erik Hornung
"the most famous example is the Metternich Stela (figure 10) in the Metropolitan Museum....Here as Shed ("savior") The youthful Horus becomes the vanquisher of dangerous animals, in particular, the serpent, the scorpion, and the crocodile. The effectiveness of the magic employed by Isis to protect her constantly threatened child, Horus was supposed to be continually put to the test...." In one episode from the Metternich Stela, Thoth emerges from the sun barque to help Isis, whose distress had brought the sun to a standstill. This halting of the sun-and thus of time-is stil to be found in Christian texts as the ultima ratio of the magician..."
Erik Hornung is an Egyptologist and one of the most influential modern writers on the Ancient Egyptian religion. He is Professor Emeritus of Basle University.

Also he mentions here:

Page 75
"The miraculous birth of Jesus could be viewed as analogous to that of Horus, whom Isis conceived posthumously from Osiris, and Mary was closely connected with Isis by many other shared characteristics"

*The ancient Egyptian pyramid texts By James P. Allen Page 31 Describes The Resurrection Ritual.

The Nummo By Shannon Dorey Page 243
"Plutarch says that Set sent the scorpion to kill the child Horus."
Shannon Dorey is a graduate of Trent University in Peterborough, Ontario where she studied English, History and mythology

The Oxford Enclyclopedia of Ancient Egypt 3V by Donald B Redford Page 400
"He (Thoth) assists Horus and Annubis in reconstructing the body of Osiris and teaches Isis the spells necessary to revive him...
In one version, he (Thoth) heals the infant Horus after Isis finds him dead of a scorpion bite."
Donald B. Redford is a Canadian Egyptologist and archaeologist, currently Professor of Classics and Ancient Mediterranean Studies

Brady's Book of Fixed Stars By Bernadette Brady Page 284
"In the Egyptian Myth, the sun was Horus/Osiris; the myth of the scorpion killing Osiris and sending him to his midwinter death only to be reborn again in the form of Horus is a myth describing the annual journey of the sun through this constellation"
Bernadette Brady M.A. is a professional consulting and teaching astrologer who lives in Bristol, UK. She holds a masters degree in Culture Astronomy and Astrology from Bath Spa University, UK

The King is the resurrected Horus when the Osiris festival is celebrated and this is where the Djed Pillar comes into play.

The Egyptian Book of the dead: translation and commentary, Volume 1 By Edouard Naville Page 2
"I am with Horus on the day when the festival of Osiris is celebrated..."
I am thy kinsmen Horus"
Captaine Henri Édouard Naville was a Swiss egyptologist. He studied in London, Paris and Berlin

The ancient Egyptian pyramid texts By James P. Allen Page 16

*Kingship and the gods: a study of ancient Near Eastern religion as the ... By Henri Frankfort
Sed Festival page 204 And page 338
Henri 'Hans' Frankfort was a Dutch Egyptologist, archaeologist and orientalist.

Osiris: death and afterlife of a god By Bojana Mojsov
"As Egyptian history unfolded, the cult of Osiris grew in populatiry. The Middle Kingdom (2055-1650 BC) he assumed the role of the Great Judge of souls in the netherworld who dispensed bread and beer to the justified souls. Every year in the town of Abydos his death and resurrection after 3 days were celebrated in a publicly enacted passion play called the Mysteries of Osiris...
"the cult of Osiris clasped hands with the cult of Ra and Osiris became the enlightened savior god, shepherd to immorality for ordinary people. ...Isis came to be worshipped as the primordial virgin and her child the Savior of the world."

The mythological traditions of liturgical drama: the Eucharist as theater By Christine Schnusenberg Page 35
Christine C. Schnusenberg is an independent research scholar who received her PhD from the University of Chicago.

The Oxford companion to world mythology - Page 117
David Adams Leeming
"The myth of Horus justifies the sacred kingship. Horus is Osiris reborn. And Osiris's resurrection as Horus represents the possibility of any individual's succeeding on the traditional heroic journey into the underworld"
He is professor emeritus of English and comparative literature at the University of Connecticut,Storrs, where he has taught since 1969.

The Dismemberment of Horus
The Egyptian Book of the dead: translation and commentary, Volume 1 By Edouard Naville
Page XX #3

The Ancient Egyptian Pyramid Texts By R. O. Faulkner
Page 144 Utterance 437
This is where Re is mentioned as the spirit.

"Horus the Sun, and Ra, the Sun-God of Heliopolis, had so permeated each other that none could say where the one began and the other ended..." -
Egyptologist Sir Dr. Gaston Maspero

Handbook of Egyptian mythology By Geraldine Pinch
"Osiris is from the beginning a dead god..." Page 94
Geraldine Harris Pinch, is an author (of both fiction and non-fiction) and Egyptologist. She is a member of the Faculty of Oriental Studies at the University of Oxford.

As stated here, Osiris was from the beginning a dead god, which is why he was resurrected as Horus.

Kingship and the gods: a study of ancient Near Eastern religion as ... - Page 289
Henri Frankfort -
"Osiris, in fact, was not a "dying" god at all but a "dead" god. He never returning to the land of the living; he was not liberated from the world of the dead, as Tammuz was. "
Henri 'Hans' Frankfort (February 24, 1897 – July 16, 1954) was a Dutch Egyptologist, archaeologist and orientalist.

Horus and Re (aka Ra) were also conflated.

The religion of the ancient Egyptians - Page 42 by
Georg Steindorff was a graduate of the Egyptology seminars of the University of Göttingen
"first of all, that there was only one sun- god, Re, and that the old sun-god Horus, who soared as a hawk above the heavens, was the same in essence as Re. The two differed only in name. The god was therefore named " Re-Horus ..."

God: Myths of the Male Divine - David Adams Leeming Page 133
"With the development of the Osiris cult, the pharaoh in death was the setting sun, the Dying God Osiris, reborn as that god's son, the rising Sun God Horus."

The encyclopædia britannica: a dictionary of arts, sciences, ...: Volume 13 - Page 783
"As a sun-god Horus not only worsted the hostile darkness and avenged his father, but also daily renewed himself. He was thus identical with his own father from one point of view."
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Old 03-11-2011, 09:47 PM   #4
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Reverend Archibald Henry Sayce from Early Israel and the surrounding nations - Page 150
"Horus, however, and Osiris were but forms of the same deity. Horus was the Sun-god when he rises in the morning ; Osiris the Sun-god as he journeys at night through a world of darkness"...
The Rev. Archibald Henry Sayce was a pioneer British Assyriologist and linguist, who held a chair as Professor of Assyriology at the University of Oxford.

Bojana Mosjov, Osiris: Death and Afterlife of a God
"Every year in the town of Abydos his death and resurrection after three days were celebrated in a publicly enacted passion play called ‘The Mysteries of Osiris’”

Resurrection of the Sun God happened daily, the rebirth of the sun god would happen yearly on the winter solstice.

Studies in Latin literature and Roman history: Volume 14 Carl Deroux -
"For every night, Horus would die but the next morning Nut would give birth to him again, and the cycle would repeat itself. A final association between the story of Apollonius, king of Tyre, and the mythology of Horus and Osiris"
http://translate.google.com/translat...26prmd%3Divnso

The enigmatic Netherworld Books of the Solar-Osirian unity: ... - Page 91
John Coleman Darnell -
"The bodies of Horus and Osiris appear together in a single oval, with Horus emerging from Osiris, in the third scene in the second register of section D of the Book of the Creation of the Solar Disk."
John Coleman Darnell (B.A. 1984, M.A. 1985, The Johns Hopkins University; Ph.D. 1995, The Oriental Institute of the University of Chicago)

World mythology By Roy G. Willis Page 47 The sun, his night voyage and the Stars...
Ra-Horus of the Horizon
also mentions the Twelve hours of the night (those followers of Horus). Orion was Osiris
Roy Willis, Ph.D. in Social Anthropology

Christians say the same thing...
The Two Babylons: Or, the Papal Worship Proved to Be the Worship ... - Page 289 Alexander Hislop -
"We have seen already, that the Egyptian Horus was just a new incarnation of Osiris or Nimrod."
Alexander Hislop was a Free Church of Scotland minister.

The ancient Egyptian book of the dead By Carol Andrews, Raymond Oliver Faulkner Page 109
" I know the mystery of Nekhen; it is the hands of Horus of his mother's making which were throw in into the water when she said: 'You shall be the two severed portions of Horus after you have been found.' and Re said, This son of Isis is injured by reason of what his own mother has done to him; let us fetch sobk from the back of the waters so that he may fish them out and that his mother Isis may cause them to grow again in their proper place" And Sobk from the back of the waters said; I have fished and I have sought; they slipped from my hand on the bank of th waters, but in the end I fished them up with a fish trap."

Egyptian [mythology] By Wilhelm Max Müller, Sir James George Scott Page 399
Wilhelm Max Müller, Ph.D. was an American Oriental scholar, born at Gleißenberg, Germany.

Jealous gods and chosen people: the mythology of the Middle East - Page 66
David Adams Leeming -
"Isis was her husband's queen in the underworld and the theological basis for the role of the queen on earth. The pharaoh died as Osiris and was resurrected as his son Horus".

Dr. Reginald Eldred Witt -
"The royal relationship in Egypt typified and was that of Osiris and Isis, the Osiris killed by Seth and the Isis responsible for the resurrection of her husband-brother by the birth of her child Horus."
Dr. Reginald Eldred Witt was educated at Taunton’s School in that city and at the University of Southampton (1924-7; BA, upper second class), before going on to teach New Testament Greek at Woodbrooke College, Birmingham while taking an MA (1929) under E.R. Dodds at the University of Birmingham. His thesis on Plotinus’ relation to Stoicism earned the British Academy’s Cromer Greek Prize for 1930. As the Rouse Ball Research Student at Trinity College, Cambridge (1931-4) he completed under the supervision of F.H. Sandbach a dissertation for the PhD on the Middle Platonic philosopher Albinus.

.The Egyptian revival: ancient Egypt as the inspiration for design motifs in ... By James Stevens Curl
Page 418
"Ankh, Cross surmounted by a circlet used in hieroglyphs, later identified with the numbus and Cross (crux ansata) of the crucifixion, possibly a stylised form of some kind of magic knot, (see also tyet) It signifies life and the resurrection and is very common in Egyptian and Egyptianising iconography as an attribute of the deities, meaning eternal life-giving powers."
Professor Emeritus James Stevens Curl has held Chairs in Architectural History

Inscriptions from Egypt's Third Intermediate Period By Robert Kriech Ritner Page 71
"Maat is adored in your form, and god is summoned in your likenes by calling your name today; I am Horus the Savior/Reciter."
Robert K. Ritner, PhD, Professor of Egyptology in the Department of Near Eastern Languages and Civilizations at the Oriental Institute of
Chicago's Oriental Institute,

Women in myth By Bettina Liebowitz Knapp Page 12-13
"Revealed to her was the future birth of Horus, the redeemer, the hawk headed god..."
"Horus became the living and functioning son, the earthly counterpart of his father..."
Bettina Liebowitz Knapp, is a prolific writer and has taught Romance languages and comparative literature at Hunter College and the Graduate Center of the City University of New York.

Osiris: death and afterlife of a god - Dr.Bojana Mojsov Page 11
"Horus became not only the legitimate new king, the reincarnation of Osiris, but also the heroic avenger and ... The discrepancy between the two gods was explained by introducing Horus the Elder and Horus the Younger..."

Horus is Osiris as he is Ra as Osiris is Ra. These gods were assimilated into a trinity, this is why Horus is the resurrection of Osiris which is no different than Jesus being the incarnation of Yahweh as discribed in The river of God: a new history of Christian origins By Gregory John Riley Page 52
"One type of Egyptian trinity may be termed a "trinity of generation," similar in one sense to the Semitic Traids: Atum the primeval "Old One," becomes three by birthing himself Shu and Tefnut, his son and daughter, representing the dry and moist air. So we read in on of the Coffin Texts (from ca 1600 BCE and later, so called because they were written inside coffins), "He was one and he became three.
A second form is a trinity of identification, where three gods are understood as one but retain their individualities, For example, Amon, Re, and Ptah--are conceived as summing up all the gods in themselves as one:"All gods are three: Amon, Re, and Ptah, and there is no second to them. 'Hidden' is his name as Amon; he is Re in face and his body is Ptah."
A third trinity may be termed a trinity of aspect: the one sun god is worshiped in its three manifestations of morning, midday and evening: "I am Khepri (one who rises), Re, and Atum (one who sets)." Perhaps the closest parallel to certain outward aspects of the Christian Trinity is the very early trinity of the theologians of the Egyptian city of Heliopolis: the one god is experssed as the sun, the king and the Horus falcon. This would be, in Christian terms, the Father (sun), the son of god on earth (the king), and the Holy Spirit (as bird, the Horus falcon)"
Gregory Riley, Ph.D., educated at Harvard University, is professor of New Testament and Early Christianity at the Claremont School of Theology in California

Osiris: death and afterlife of a god - Bojana Mojsov Page 90
"First, the king; second, the main gods of the country, Ptah of Memphis, Ra of Heliopolis, and Amun of Thebes; and third, the gods of the Osirian saga represented as the trinity of Osiris, Isis, and Horus."

As we have shown above, Horus was conflated with Ra, now we see that so was Osiris, this is also a representation of the conflation of Horus with Osiris.

Dictionary of Ancient Deities - Page 367
Patricia Turner, Charles Russell Coulter
"The phoenix, although the "ba" of Ra, the sun god,
is also a manifestion of Osiris according to the Book of the Dead."
Patricia Turner is Vice Provost of Undergraduate Studies at UC Davis and also a faculty member in the programs of African and African American Studies

Dictionary of Ancient Deities By Patricia Turner, Charles Russell Coulter page 367
"There are over one hundred and fify names or aspects of Osiris"

ReMembering Osiris: number, gender, and the word in ancient Egyptian ... By Tom Hare Page 14
"So we find address to "Osiris in the sky", "Osiris the commander of the Two Lands", "Osiris among the Aegean islanders",
"Osiris in the Two Horizons", "Osiris, Lord of the Universe", and so on. One Finds as well the identification of
Osiris with other major and minor gods of the Egyptian panteon, either explicitly as Osiris Ptah, Lord of life; Osiris Sokar
in the Lake Explanse; Osiris Horus Mighty of Arm; Osiris with the portion of Re-or by implication."
Thomas Hare is William Sauter LaPorte '28 Professor in Regional Studies and Professor of Comparative Literature at Princeton University.

Note: Osiris Horus Mightyof Arm, This is the conflation of Osiris and Horus.

Pyramid Texts Utterance 667 1941b

"On this hour of the morning, of this ----THIRD DAY----, is come, when thou surely passet on to heaven, together with the star, the imperishable star"

Utterance 556 1382f

"When this hour of the morrow comes, this hour of the ----THIRD DAY---- comes, where the father Osiris will be reborn, at the place where the gods are born."


Attis Pre-Christian?
The goddess Eostre
April 24, 2011 by Bill
"Other resurrected gods of that period before Jesus were Attis and Mithra, sacrificed at the Spring equinox, and then rising and ascending to heaven. Other gods of that period who were eaten in the form of bread or wafers included Adonis and Dionysus, among many others, especially the Egyptian Osiris, whom the Egyptians called “the good shepherd,” “the Lord of Lords,” the King of Kings,” “the resurrection and the life.” Osiris was only one of many god-men who suffered, died, rose again and lived eternally in heaven. Human beings believed in resurrection and eternal life after death at least 150,000 years before Jesus was ever born. This sharing of iconic stories is called “mythological diffusion.”
source
"Bill Edelen Oklahoma State University where he received the Bachelor of Science degree in Horticulture and Biology. He then entered McCormick Theological Seminary (on the campus of the University of Chicago) where he received his Masters degree in Theology.
Two years graduate studies in anthropology, University of Colorado.
Lecturer of religion and anthropology, University of Puget Sound, Tacoma, Washington
Special studies with Joseph Campbell, whom the New York Times called “The pre-eminent scholar in Comparative Religions and Mythology.”
Active ordained Presbyterian and Congregational minister, 30 years"

The historical Jesus: five views By James K. Beilby, Paul R. Eddy Page 75
"There is also pre-Christian evidence for the resurrection of Attis, Adonis and Demunzi/Tammuz."
James K. Beilby is a Christian philosopher at Bethel University (now assistant professor of biblical and theological studies)

Attis, between myth and history: king, priest, and God By Maria Grazia Lancellotti page 84
"Further important archeological evidence for the cult of Attis and particularly for the festival cycle is provided from the Campus Matris Magnae at Ostia, where there is an attideum that may be dated to the period of Antoninus."
Maria Grazia Lancellotti, Ph.D. in History of Religions (University of Roma "La Sapienza") was awarded with the R. Pettazzoni Scholarship.
Antonininus
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Attis:
13. Born of a virgin

Attis, between myth and history: king, priest, and God By Maria Grazia Lancellotti
Page 89 "The birth of Attis from an almost or a pomegranate fruit refers, as already dated, to the theme of the miraculous birth used in several mythological tales about heros. In this cause, one has to add the requirements that Attis must be born without a father and without sexual intercourse."
Page 94 "Pomegranate tree>fruit that impregnates Nana...(without direct sexual intercourse]"
Maria Grazia Lancellotti, Ph.D. in History of Religions (University of Roma "La Sapienza") was awarded with the R. Pettazzoni Scholarship.

Thank God for evolution: how the marriage of science and religion will ... By Michael Dowd Page 363
A Whole list of virgin mothers including..."Nana virgin mother of Attis"
Dowd, raised Roman Catholic, graduated from Evangel University in Springfield, Missouri summa cum laude receiving a B.A. in philosophy and biblical studies. He went on to earn a Master of Divinity degree with honors at Eastern Baptist Theological Seminary (now Palmer Seminary) in Philadelphia. Dowd was ordained as a United Church of Christ minister and served as a congregational minister for nine years in churches in Massachusetts, Ohio, and Michigan.

14. Born on Dec 25th
Jesus Didn't Exist! the Bible Tells Me So By Derek Murphy Page 20
"Attis was born of the virgin Nana on December 25th"
Author Derek Murphy, studied theology and has a PhD in Comparative Literature

They Like Jesus But Not the Church Participant's Guide: Six Sessions ... By Dan Kimball, Margaret Feinberg Page 133
"And it is true that the date of our Christmas, December 25, was the birthday for pagan gods throughout time-Attis, Mithras, Dionysus
and Osiris."
Kimball is a graduate of Multnomah Biblical Seminary and Western Seminary. He is currently pursuing a Doctor of Ministry degree at George Fox Evangelical Seminary

15. Crucified
Early and medieval Christianity
By Roland Herbert Bainton
"March 25 could have been calculated as the mean date for Nisan 14 and could have been taken from the resurrection of Attis."
Roland received an A.B. degree from Whitman College, and B.D. and Ph.D.. degrees from Yale University.
He also received a number of honorary degrees including a D.D.
from Meadville Theological Seminary and from Oberlin College,
Dr. Theologiae from the University of Marburg, Germany, and Litt.D. from Gettysburg College.
A specialist in Reformation history, Bainton was for forty-two years Titus Street Professor of
ecclesiastical history at [Yale, and he continued his writing well into his twenty years of
retirement.

A Wish Can Change Your Life: How to Use the Ancient Wisdom of ... - Page 137
Gahl Sasson, Steve Weinstein
"The Phrygian savior-god Attis crucified himself on a pine tree on the spring equinox — the first day of the Mars-governed sign of Aries."
Sasson teaches Kabbalah, mythology, and astrology at the University of Judaism in Los Angeles, Tel Aviv University in Israel

Everything About the Bible That You Never Had Time to Look Up By W. Milton Timmons Page 95
"{this might reflect the Hellenistic heritage of the author, since the Greek god Attic was crucified
on a tree.]"

The followers of Attis also practiced their form of Baptism by washing with bull's blood.

Apostle of the crucified Lord: a theological introduction to Paul and his ... By Michael J. Gorman
"Priests of the cult, who were self castrated to identify with Cybele's son and lover Attis (who after being cut up was reconstituted by Cybele but without his genitalia),..."
also performed frenzied, masochistic rituals accompanited by flutes and tambourines. Initiates, placed in a pit, were washed in the blood of the bull as it was being sacrificed."
Dr. Michael J. Gorman is Dean of the Ecumenical Institute of Theology at St. Mary's Seminary & University in Baltimore,
With a Ph.D. in Mass Communications from the University of Southern California and a teaching career spanning thirty years, Professor Timmons has conducted courses in virtually every aspect of Speech, Drama, Radio-TV-Film, Journalism, and Advertising.


16. Dead for 3 days

17. Resurrected

A dictionary of religion and ethics edited by Shailer Mathews, Gerald Birney Smith
Page 301 "The death and resurrection of Attis were celebrated every spring with dramatic ceremonies in which the
deceased god was represented as a pine tree clad as a corpse."
Shailer Mathews a Christian theologian, Professor of Historical and Comparative Theology and dean of the Divinity School of the University of Chicago

The mystery-religions: a study in the religious background of early Christianity By Samuel Angus Page 60
"The Next night the Resurrection of Attis was celebrated by the opening of a grave."
Samuel Angus (August 27, 1881 – November 1943) was professor of New Testament and Church History at St Andrew's College in the University of Sydney from 1915 to 1943

Attis, between myth and history: king, priest, and God By Maria Grazia Lancellotti Page 142
"The idea that the "resurrection" of Attis was due to a "devilish counterfeit" certainly proves how, in the eyes
of one Christain, but also in those of a "pagan" inclined to lay claim to the meaning of his own beliefs, Attis must
have seemed dangerously similar to Jesus Christ"
Maria Grazia Lancellotti, Ph.D. in History of Religions (University of Roma "La Sapienza")

The historical Jesus: five views By James K. Beilby, Paul R. Eddy Page 75
"There is also pre-Christian evidence for the resurrection of Attis, Adonis and Demunzi/Tammuz."
James K. Beilby is a Christian philosopher at Bethel University (now assistant professor of biblical and theological studies)


Krishna:
The Development Of Hinduism By M.M.Ninan page 129
"Vishnu Purana:
This work contains the geneology of the Gupta kings, and therefore could not have eben finalized before 320 AD Hazra is positive the
date of this Purana is between 275 and 325 AD..."
Professor of Theoretical Physics

Megasthenes and Indian Religion By Allan Dahlaquist Page 92
"We have already had occasion to point out that we are unable to date the Puranas with any degree of certainty.
Indian literature was originally extant durgin centuries of oral tradition, during with time it was
altered and edited in many ways, before being written down at a much later date; for this reason it is as
well, when considering the question of dates, not to rely too much on its antiquity."

"Dikshitar, in his Purana Index, attempts to date the five Puranas which form his material, The Vishnu
Purana he dates, on what appear to be dubius grounds, to 600-300 BC; this fits in with Lassen's view."
Note: I am adding Dikshitars background because I cannot get to his book through any sources but quoted from his book
Vishnampet R. Ramachandra Dikshitar was a professor of history and archaeology in the University of Madras, earned his bachelor of arts in history with distinction from St. Joseph's College, Tiruchirapalli in 1920. He completed his master's in history in 1923 along with a diploma in economics and obtained his PhD from Madras University in 1927


18. Born of a virgin
VISHNU PURANA BOOK V CHAPTER 2:
"The nurse of the universe, Jagaddhatri, thus enjoined by the god of gods, CONVEYED SIX SEVERAL EMBRYOS into the womb of Devaki, and the SEVENTH ONE, after a season into Rohini's womb."
According to the Srimad Bhagavatam, Vishnu chose Devaki and Vasudeva because they lived the most non-sensual, austere lives. It states that they endured aeons of "TAPASYA" or "MORTIFICATION" (no sex or material enjoyments -- extreme self-discipline). Furthermore, the reason they could not give birth to Krishna in thier PAST LIVES was due to having sex just once (gramya-dharma or gramya-bhogan). Instead, they gave birth to Pris'nigarbha (an incomplete Krishna)
Book V Chapter 2
Horace Hayman Wilson was an English orientalist.

Thank God for Evolution: How the Marriage of Science and Religion Will ... By Michael Dowd
"Devaki, virgin mother of Krishna (born on December 25)"
Dowd, raised Roman Catholic, graduated from Evangel University in Springfield, Missouri summa cum laude receiving a B.A. in philosophy and biblical studies. He went on to earn a Master of Divinity degree with honors at Eastern Baptist Theological Seminary (now Palmer Seminary) in Philadelphia.

African presence in early Asia, Volume 7, Issue 1 By Ivan Van Sertima, Runoko Rashidi Page 109
"Krishna was the son of the Virgin Devaki"
Dr. Ivan Van Sertima was educated at the School of Oriental and African Studies (London University) and the Rutgers Graduate School and holds degrees in African Studies and Anthropology"

The Rozabal Line By Shawn Haigins
"The blessed virgin, Devaki, was about to deliver a baby boy; Krishna was to be his name. His birth had been heralded
by the astral formation of a Rohini Nakshatra, a most auspicious astrological sequence...".
The name “Shawn Haigins” is a pseudonym. In fact, it's an anagram of the author’s real name, "Ashwin Sanghi".
Ashwin holds a master’s degree from Yale and lives in India with his wife and son. He's also pursuing a doctorate in Creative Writing.
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19. Star in the East

World's Saviors By Charles H. Vail Page 30
"Krishna had his star, which the prophet Narada examined upon visiting him..."
Vail enrolled in the Theological School of St. Lawrence University at Canton, New York. He graduated in 1892 with a Bachelor of Divinity degree, but remained through 1893 to take a graduate course

Islamic reformism and Christianity: a critical reading of the works of ... By Umar Ryad Page 60
"Comparing Jesus to Krishna..."
Dr. U. Ryad
Umar Ryad is currently assistant professor of the study of Islam in the modern world. He studied at the Faculty of Languages and Translation, Al-Azhar University in Cairo (1998, BA Islamic Studies in English), and got his MA degree in Islamic Studies (Cum Laude) from the University of Leiden in 2001. In 2003-2006 he has been affiliated as assistant-in-training at the Leiden Institute for the Study of Religions. Since September 2006 he has been working as a lecturer within the section of Islamic Theology. His PhD dissertation (‘Islamic Reformism and Christianity: A Critical Study of the Works of Muhammad Rashid Rida and his Associates (1898-1935)..."

20. Performed miracles
The Oxford companion to world mythology By David Adams Leeming Page 232
As a very young child, Krishna performs miracluous *initiatory feats and defeats *demons (*Asuaras)
On one occasion, when his adopted mother looks into his mouth, she is astounded to see the whole
universe there.
Another story from Krishna's youth is that of the struggle with the serpent monster Kaliya....Kaliya attacked
Krishna with his might, wrapping his horrible coils around him. Krishna appeared to have been utterly
defeated by the serpent. The gopis and their herds were miserable in their greif, thinking that their lord,
to whom they had dedicated their lives and possessions, was dead....
So it was that Lord Krishna overcame the evil that was Kaliya."

Jesus, Buddha, Krishna, Lao Tzu: The Parallel Sayings By Richard Hooper Page 38
Lists of Parallel sayings of the four aformentioned gods
Richard Hooper is a former Lutheran pastor who received his Bachelor’s degree in religion and philosophy from San Francisco State University in 1966,
and his Master of Divinity from Berkeley’s Pacific Lutheran Theological Seminary in 1970. He was subsequently ordained by The American Lutheran Church (ALC) in 1972.

21. Resurrected
Christianity was not influenced by paganism
A review and response to claims that Christianity was influenced by paganism and other religions.
By G.R. Konig
Krishna brought back to life
"As for the crucifixion and resurrection, it is true that the Mahabharata says that Krishna, who is alternately referred to as Keshava, is killed and that he returns to life,
but he was not crucified. Instead, he receives a mortal injury to the heel while meditating in the forest:"

"A fierce hunter of the name of Jara then came there, desirous of deer. The hunter, mistaking Keshava, who was stretched on the earth in high Yoga,
for a deer, pierced him at the heel with a shaft and quickly came to that spot for capturing his prey." - Mahabharata, Book 16, Section 4.

Bhagavad Gita, 10.20; Campbell, 315
"As Vishnu, Krishna is the second person of the trinity, he is considered the "Beginning, the Middle and the End," ("Alpha and Omega"), as well as being omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent."

http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&...inning&f=false

Bhagavad Gita: A New Translation By Stephen Mitchell
Page pr numbered II
"No one knows when it was written; some scholars date it as yearly as the fifth century BCE others as late as the first century CE. But there is a general scholarly concensus that in its original form it was an independent poem, which was later inserted into its present context, Book Six of India's national epic, the Mahabharata."
Stephen Mitchell was educated at Amherst College, the University of Paris, and Yale University.

Krishna...
Bhagavata Purana
"SB 11.27.8: Now please listen faithfully as I explain exactly how a person who has achieved twice-born status through the relevant Vedic prescriptions should worship Me with devotion.
Here
SB 11.27.9: A twice-born person should worship Me, his worshipable Lord, without duplicity, offering appropriate paraphernalia in loving devotion to My Deity form or to a form of Me appearing upon the ground, in fire, in the sun, in water or within the worshiper's own heart."

Dionysus
Pre-Christian?
Linear B Tablet states 13th Century BCE
Also note Liber=Dionysus=Bacchus=Orpheus

Bacchus: a biography By Andrew Dalby Page 139
"These facts would not matter so much now-after all, many Greek cities held their public festivals honouring Dionysus, and many Greek cities had vast open air theatres - but about 40 of the plays that were presented at Athens in the fith and fourth centuries BC can still be read today."
Andrew Dalby (b. 1947 in Liverpool) is an English linguist, translator and historian
Dalby studied Latin, French and Greek at the Bristol Grammar School and University of Cambridge. Here he also studied Romance languages and linguistics, earning a bachelor's degree in 1970.
Dalby worked for fifteen years at Cambridge University Library, recieved his Ph.D. at Birkbeck College, London in ancient history.

22. Born of a virgin
"Liber the son of Jupiter and Proserpina, was ripped apart by the Titans. Jupiter ground up his heart, put it in a potion, and gave it to Semele to drink. When she became pregnant from this, Juno took the form of Beroe, Semele's nurse and said to her, "dear child, ask Jupiter to come to you as he comes to Juno, so that you may know how great a pleasure it is to lie with a god.Prodded in this fashion, she asked Jupiter to do so and was struck by a thunderbolt. Jupiter took Liber out of her womb and gave him to Nysus to raise. This is why he is called Dionysus and twice mothered." Hygenis Fabulae 167 (1st Century BC) [167] CLXVII. LIBER
dated

Euripides, Volume 1 By Euripides
"They particularly insist on the preternatural birth of Dionysus from Semele, on which doubts had been impiously cast by Pentheus. They implore Thebes, the birthpace of Semele, not to reject the holy rites; and predict , with the usual entheusasm of religious votaries that the whole earth will soon be converted to the new worship."
Euripides (ca. 480 BC – 406 BC)

The essential Edmund Leach, Volumes 1-2 edited by Stephen Hugh-Jones, James Alexander Laidlaw Page 108
"In contrast the miraculous birth of divine or semi-divine heros is a characteristic of the mythology of the higher civilisations. Dionysus son of Zeus is born of a mortal virgin, Semele who later became immortalised through the intervention of her divine son; Jesus the sun of god, is born of a mortal virgin, Mary, who...; such stories can be duplicated over and over again. They do not indicate ignorance".
Dr Stephen Hugh-Jones Oral narratives, ritual, shamanism and religion; human - animal relations and ecological anthropology; kinship and the anthropology of architecture; cultural politics and indigenous movements; linguistic anthropology and Amerindian languages; Latin/South America; fieldwork in Colombian Amazonia.

23. Born on Dec 25th

The Harvard theological review, Volume 8 By Harvard Divinity School Page 108
At first in the East the Nativity (of Jesus) was celebrated on the same day as the Feast of Baptism (January 6) the ancient Feast of the Ephiphay of Dionysus. Later in Rome and the West it was celebrated on December 25, the Julian winter solstice or Dies invincti solis.
Note on page 108 in the note 20
The feast of ***(virgin mother of Dionysus) was celebrated on January 6th.

24. Performed miracles
The complete idiot's guide to classical mythology By Kevin Osborn, Dana Burgess Page 109
Halted ship as if in frozen water, streams of wine flowed throughout the ship, a vine with grapes spread across the ship, ivy with flowers grew on the ship, and wreaths crowned the thole pins...transformed into a growling lion, instantly materialized on the ship..."
Kevin Osborn received both his Ph.D. in Greek and M.A. in Latin from Bryn Mawr College

Miracles in Greco-Roman antiquity: a sourcebook By Wendy Cotter page 164
See 25 Page 164 Changing water into wine and other nature miracles by Wendy Cotter...
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25. Turned water into wine (not visible on the list, but the voice-over says it)
The complete idiot's guide to classical mythology By Kevin Osborn, Dana Burgess Page 109
...Halted ship as if in frozen water, streams of wine flowed throughout the ship, a vine with grapes spread across the ship, ivy with flowers grew on the ship, and wreaths crowned the thole pins...transformed into a growling lion, instantly materialized on the ship..."
Kevin Osborn received both his Ph.D. in Greek and M.A. in Latin from Bryn Mawr College

Euripides, Volume 1 By Euripides Page 416
"But he, the son of Semele, took the opposite course; he invented the liquid drought of the grapes and introduced it to mortals"

Miracles in Greco-Roman antiquity: a sourcebook By Wendy Cotter page 164
Diodorus Siculus (wrote 60-30 BCE)
Diodorus Siculus, the Library of History 3.66.3
"The teans advance as proof that the god [Dionysus] was born among them the fact that, even to this day, at fixed times in their city a fountain of wine of unusally sweet fragrance, flows of its on accord from the earth; and as for the people of the other cities, they in some cases point out a plot of land which is sacred to Dionysus, in other cases shrines and sacred precincts which have been consecrated to him from ancient times...."
Dr. Wendy Cotter, CSJ is a Sister of Saint Joseph from London, Ontario Canada, and a tenured Associate Professor of Scripture in the Theology Department of Loyola

26. "King of Kings"

27. "Alpha and Omega"

28. "God's only begotten son" (not visible on the list, but the voice-over says it)
History of the Literature of Ancient Greece By Karl Otfried Müller Page 237
"According to them, Dionysus-Zagreus was a son of Zeus, whome he had begotton, in the form of a dragon, upon his daughter Cora-Persephone, before she was carried off to the kingdom of shadows."

"Pallus, however, succeded saving his palpitating heart, which was swallowed by Zeus in a drink. As the ancients considered the heart the seat of life, Dionysus was again contained in Zeus, and again begotten by him."
Karl Otfried Müller was a German scholar and Philodorian, or admirer of ancient Sparta, who introduced the modern study of Greek mythology.
His university education was partly in Breslau (now Wrocław) and partly in Berlin. In Berlin, he was spurred towards the study of Greek literature, art and history by the influence of Philipp August Böckh. In 1817, after the publication of his first work, Aegineticorum liber, on the Aeginetans, he received an appointment at the Magdaleneum in Breslau, and in 1819 he was made adjunct professor of ancient literature at the University of Göttingen, his subject being the archaeology and history of ancient art.

29. Resurrected
The goddess Eostre
April 24, 2011 by Bill
"Other resurrected gods of that period before Jesus were Attis and Mithra, sacrificed at the Spring equinox, and then rising and ascending to heaven. Other gods of that period who were eaten in the form of bread or wafers included Adonis and Dionysus, among many others, especially the Egyptian Osiris, whom the Egyptians called “the good shepherd,” “the Lord of Lords,” the King of Kings,” “the resurrection and the life.” Osiris was only one of many god-men who suffered, died, rose again and lived eternally in heaven. Human beings believed in resurrection and eternal life after death at least 150,000 years before Jesus was ever born. This sharing of iconic stories is called “mythological diffusion.”
http://williamedelen.org/archives/2726#more-2726
Bill Edelen Oklahoma State University where he received the Bachelor of Science degree in Horticulture and Biology. He then entered McCormick Theological Seminary (on the campus of the University of Chicago) where he received his Masters degree in Theology.
Two years graduate studies in anthropology, University of Colorado.
Lecturer of religion and anthropology, University of Puget Sound, Tacoma, Washington
Weekly columnist for many western newspapers
Special studies with Joseph Campbell, whom the New York Times called “The pre-eminent scholar in Comparative Religions and Mythology.”
Active ordained Presbyterian and Congregational minister, 30 years

The myth and ritual theory: an anthology By Robert Alan Segal Page 98
"Can we, for example, argue that the *** of Dionysus was the same in kind as that of Osiris? Yes, Herodotus again is explicit. He says of the Osiris feast in the month Athyr..."
At any rate of the gist of the*** was the same. Thus we may conclude that the fate of Dionysus , in Herodotus was the same. Thus we may conclude that the fate of Dionysus, in Herodotus' time as well as later, was a Sparagmos; doubtless he had, like the other Year-Daimons, a very special enemy; was torn in pieces, scattered over the fields, lost, sought for, discovered and recognized, just as Osiris was. ..."
*** = words in another language
Page 101
Now, when we remember that Pentheus is only another form of Dionysus himself-like Zagreus, Orpheus, Osiris and the other daimons who are torn in pieces and put together again-we can see that Bacchae is simply the old Sacer Ludus itself, scacely changed at all, except for the doubling of the hero into himself and his enemy."
Page 167-That this Thracian play held int he spring just before Lent was the dramatization of the Dionysiac celebrated in ancient Greece at Athens in the end of February is suggested by the wonder-child born of an unmarried mother and laid in a winnowing fan, or liknon, as Dionysos was called Liknites, "he of the cradle".

Page 71
"In the case before us we have a uniform ritual of the elements of which we have disentangled-the armed dance over the child, the mimic of death and rebirth' but the myth shifts; it is told variously of Zagreus, Dionysus, Zeus, and there is every variety of detal as to how the child is mimetically killed and how the resurrection is effected..."
Professor Robert Segal - University of Aberdeen
BA (Wesleyan University), MA, PhD (Princeton University)

The Ante-Nicene Fathers: The Writings of the Fathers Down to A.D. 325 Volume ... By Reverend Alexander Rober, Sir James Donaldson And Arthur Cleveland Coxe
'The last of these was Horus the son of Osiris, called by the Greeks Apollo. He disposed Typhon and ruled over Egypt as its last god-king. Osiris is named Dionysus (Bacchus) by the Greeks. Almost all of the names of the gods came into Greece from Egypt"
Apollo was the son of Dionysus and Isis, as Herodotus likewise affirms: According to the Egyptians, Apollo and Diana are the children of Bacchus and Isis; while Latona is their nurse and their perserver"

The 'Orphic' Gold Tablets and Greek Religion: Further Along the Path - Page 325
Radcliffe G. Edmonds, III -
Indeed, according to another Argive myth Dionysus entered Hades from a lake at Lerna, when he went down to find his mother Semele and bring her back to the upper world as a goddess.49 Here the equation of water and Hades is explicit, ...
Professor Radcliffe G. Edmonds III
Associate Professor, Department of Greek, Latin, & Classical Studies
Bryn Mawr College

Bacchus: a biography By Andrew Dalby
Page 149
"Bacchus needing to ask Herakles the way to the Underworld, when he goes there to bring the poet Euripides back to life in 405 BC even though he also went there to bring his mother Semele to live on Mount Olympos a thousand years before...."
Dalby studied Latin, French and Greek at the Bristol Grammar School and University of Cambridge. Here he also studied Romance languages and linguistics, earning a bachelor's degree in 1970. After his time at Cambridge, Dalby worked in London helping to start the library at Regent's College and on renovating another library at London House (Goodenough College). He also served as Honorary Librarian of the Institute of Linguists, for whose journal The Linguist he writes a regular column. He later did a part-time Ph.D. at Birkbeck College, London in ancient history (in 1987-93), which improved his Latin and Greek.

Jesus Christ, sun of God: ancient cosmology and early Christian symbolism By David Fideler, Page 173
The myths of the Greeks tell of the dismemberment of Dionysus, but also of his resurrection. Origin refers to the dismemberment of the young god, after which "he was put together again and was, as at were, restored to life and went up to heaven. According to a varient of the Titan myth, Apollo took the pieces of Dionysus to Delphi, the center of the universe, and buried them by the ompalos."
Fideler holds a Ph.D. in Philosophy and the History of Science and Cosmology

Heretical Hellenism: women writers, ancient Greece, and the Victorian ... By Shanyn Fiske
"Dionysos was torn to pieces by the Titans and resurrected by Rhea"
Shanyn Fiske received her BA from Brown University in 1997 and her Ph.D. from the University of Pennsylvania in 2004, Assistant Professor of English at Rutgers.

Pictures:
http://rogerviklund.wordpress.com/20...ry-in-english/

Mithra:
http://www.well.com/~davidu/mithras.html
"Here in the end we may sense a profound kinship between Mithraism and Christianity. For early Christianity also contained at its core an ideology of cosmic transcendence. Nowhere is this better expressed than in the opening of the earliest gospel, Mark. There, at the beginning of the foundation story of Christianity, we find Jesus, at the moment of his baptism, having a vision of "the heavens torn open." Just as Mithras is revealed as a being from beyond the universe capable of altering the cosmic spheres, so here we find Jesus linked with a rupture of the heavens, an opening into the numinous realms beyond the furthest cosmic boundaries. Perhaps, then, the figures of Jesus and Mithras are to some extent both manifestations of a single deep longing in the human spirit for a sense of contact with the ultimate mystery."
David Ulansey-Professor Emeritus of Philosophy and Religion at the California Institute of Integral Studies in San Francisco. I am a scholar of the history of religions, comparative religion, and cultural history (Ph.D., Princeton Univ.), and before teaching at CIIS I was on the faculties of the University of California at Berkeley, Boston University, Barnard College (Columbia University), the University of Vermont, Princeton University, and Pacifica Graduate Institute.

30. Born of a virgin
"One of these was the worship of Mithras, an Indo-Aryan deity.. associated with the heavens and light. His cult entered the Roman Empire in the first century BCE and during the formative decades of the Christian movement was a formidable rival to the latter.. Given his solar associations, it made sense to believe that he had been born on the darkest day of the year, the winter solstice. That falls this year on December 21 but the Romans celebrated the birth feast of Mithras on December 25!"
Gary Leupp is Professor of History at Tufts University, and Adjunct Professor of Comparative Religion.

Dr. Badi Badiozamani states: "a "person" named "Mehr" or Mithra was "born of a VIRGIN named Nahid Anahita ("immaculate") and that "the worship of Mithra and Anahita, the virgin mother of Mithra, was well-known in the Achaemenian period [558-330 BCE]"

―"According to some sources, Mithra's partner and virgin mother is the angel-goddess Anahita…."
*The Pagan Belief that Shaped the Christian World Dr. Payam Nabarz, The Mysteries of Mithras
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PWNAGE ABOVE

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Mithra virgin mother
Looklex Encyclopedia
A"round 400 BCE the Zoroastrians provided for Mithra a mother, Anahita. In a temple from 200 BCE she was referred to as "The Immaculate Virgin Mother of Lord Mithra".
The Zoroastrian version of Mithra survived the longest in Armenia, which also became the first country to embrace Christianity as state religion."
http://looklex.com/e.o/mithra.htm

Shadows in the desert: ancient Persia at war By Kaveh Farrokh Page 191
"Mithra or Mehr, is the Lord of Payman (lit. contracts, oaths) Mithra stands for love, affection, light and the sun. The god is also a companion in life, battle and after-life. He is born of the virgin Goddess Anahita, and leads the good against the armies of evil."
Dr. Farrokh obtained his undergraduate arts degree (BA) and Ph.D. from the University of British Columbia , where he specialized on the cognitive and linguistic processes of Persian speakers.
Member of Stanford University's WAIS (World Association of Intl. Studies)
Mithraic Studies

31. Born on Dec 25th
Jesus Christ, sun of God: ancient cosmology and early Christian symbolism By David Fideler, David R. Fideler Page 145
"As noted, Mithras was born on December 25 in a cave and his birth was witnessed by shepherds. Initiates into the mysteries were baptized..."
David Fideler studied ancient religions and Greek philosophy at the University of Pennsylvania

The mysteries of Mithras: the pagan belief that shaped the Christian world By Payam Nabarz
Page 12..."In the west, Mithras influenced Christianity, and in the east, Mithra was fused with Islamic lore and became part of the mystical branch of Islam Sufism."
Payam Nabarz- a Persian-born Sufi and practicing Dervish, holds a Ph.D. from Oxford University

The mysteries of Mithras: the pagan belief that shaped the Christian World By Payam Nabarz Page 57
"The Mithraist religious movement seems now to have been a guise under which Cult followers attempted to take over the old
Greco-Roman patheistic religion, with which the Cult had been in contact since the start of the Hellenistic period in the fourth century BCE Mithraism suceeded impressively. By the time of Constantine and the prevalence of Christianity, Mithraism had become so influential in the Roman Empire that it may be that the Roman state Observance of the birth of the god Mithras on December 25 inspired the tradional dating of the birth of Christ."
Payam Nabarz, holds a Ph.D. from Oxford University and is carrying out postdoctoral research there on genetics and cancer.

The mysteries of Mithras: the pagan belief that shaped the Christian world By Payam Babarz Page 6
According to Professor Moghdam, The savior was born in the middle of the night between Saturday and Sunday, 24-25 December, 272 BCE and according to those who believe in him from an Immaculate (Anahid) Virgin (Xosidhag) somewhere not far from lake Hamin, Sistan, lived for 64 years among men, and ascended to his father Ahura Mazda in 208 BCE"

Jesus Christ, sun of God: ancient cosmology and early Christian symbolism By David Fideler, David R. Fideler Page 145
"As noted, Mithras was born on December 25 in a cave and his birth was witnessed by shepherds. Initiates into the mysteries were baptized..."
David Fideler studied ancient religions and Greek philosophy at the University of Pennsylvania

Weekend Edition
December 24/25, 2005
The True Meaning of December 25th
Happy Birthday Mithras! By GARY LEUPP
"One of these was the worship of Mithras, an Indo-Aryan deity.. associated with the heavens and light. His cult entered the Roman Empire in the first century BCE and during the formative decades of the Christian movement was a formidable rival to the latter.. Given his solar associations, it made sense to believe that he had been born on the darkest day of the year, the winter solstice. That falls this year on December 21 but the Romans celebrated the birth feast of Mithras on December 25!"

and...
"Mithras, the story went, had been born of a virgin. Virgin-birth stories were a denarius a dozen in the ancient world, so this similarity to the gospel story isn't surprising. But Mithras was also born in very humble circumstances in a cave, and upon his miraculous birth found himself in immediate proximity to the bovine.
Gary Leupp is Professor of History at Tufts University, and Adjunct Professor of Comparative Religion."
http://www.counterpunch.org/leupp12242005.html


32. 12 disciples
Like other sun gods, Mithra's "followers" were the twelve signs of the Zodiac as explained here:
Mithraic studies: proceedings of the first International congress ..., Volume 2 By John R. Hinnells PhD Page 182
John R. Hinnells, Ph.D.
Ancien professeur, Zoroastrian Studies
School of Oriental and African Studies, London, UK

33. Dead for 3 days


34. Resurrected
The myth of the Resurrection and other essays Page 23
"Before the time of Christ the nations annually celebrated the death and resurrection of Osiris, Tammuz, Attis, Mithra and other gods."
Joseph McCabe taught at the Franciscan college in Buckingham.

The goddess Eostre
April 24, 2011 by Bill
"Other resurrected gods of that period before Jesus were Attis and Mithra, sacrificed at the Spring equinox, and then rising and ascending to heaven. Other gods of that period who were eaten in the form of bread or wafers included Adonis and Dionysus, among many others, especially the Egyptian Osiris, whom the Egyptians called “the good shepherd,” “the Lord of Lords,” the King of Kings,” “the resurrection and the life.” Osiris was only one of many god-men who suffered, died, rose again and lived eternally in heaven. Human beings believed in resurrection and eternal life after death at least 150,000 years before Jesus was ever born. This sharing of iconic stories is called “mythological diffusion.”
http://williamedelen.org/archives/2726#more-2726
Bill Edelen Oklahoma State University where he received the Bachelor of Science degree in Horticulture and Biology. He then entered McCormick Theological Seminary (on the campus of the University of Chicago) where he received his Masters degree in Theology.
Two years graduate studies in anthropology, University of Colorado.
Lecturer of religion and anthropology, University of Puget Sound, Tacoma, Washington
Special studies with Joseph Campbell, whom the New York Times called “The pre-eminent scholar in Comparative Religions and Mythology.”
Active ordained Presbyterian and Congregational minister, 30 years

Mithraic studies: proceedings of the first International congress of ... By John R. Hinnells
"This must have been done before 150 B.C. Mihragan, therefore, was a spring feast from then until c300 A.C. when it was slipping back slowly with the new 365- day unintercalated year, into winter). Thus in what may have been the vital period for the growth of Mithraism it would have had the seasonal place of the feast of the ressurection"
John Hinnels PhD. School of Oriental and African Studies University of London
Department of the Study of Religions

Creation myths of the world: an encyclopedia, Volume 1 By David Adams Leeming Page 294
Founded by the historical Zarathustra or Zoraster, who was born in the sixth century BCE in Persia, Zoroastrianism is a religion related to older Persion traditions, especially Mithraism, the cult of the Indo-Iranian sun god Mithra. In its emphasis on the great dualities of light and dark (good and evil) Zoroastrinaism influenced Christainity...."


35. "The Truth"/"The Light"
"Mithra or Mehr, is the Lord of Payman (lit. contracts, oaths) Mithra stands for love, affection, light and the sun. The god is also a companion in life, battle and after-life. He is born of the virgin Goddess Anahita, and leads the good against the armies of evil."
Dr. Farrokh obtained his undergraduate arts degree (BA) and Ph.D. from the University of British Columbia , where he specialized on the cognitive and linguistic processes of Persian speakers.
Member of Stanford University's WAIS (World Association of Intl. Studies)
Mithraic Studies

Mithra god of light...
Gods, goddesses, and mythology, Volume 1 By C. Scott Littleton, Marshall Cavendish Corporation Page 892
"It was in Persia that Mithra was first thought of as the god of Light."
C. Scott Littleton is a former Professor of Anthropology as well as former Chairperson of the Department of Anthropology at Occidental College in Los Angeles, California. He joined the Occidental faculty in 1962, retiring at the end of the spring semester, 2002, and of which until passing he held Emeritus status after a highly succesful and distinguished academic career.
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Old 03-11-2011, 09:51 PM   #10
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36. Sunday worship
"Three times a day prayer was offered the sun toward the east, south, or west according to the hour. Sunday was kept holy in honour of Mithra, and the sixteenth of each month was sacred to him as mediator. The 25 December was observed as his birthday, the natalis invicti, the rebirth of the winter-sun, unconquered by the rigours of the season."
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10402a.htm

Influence on Christainity-sects Mithraism (Persian Religion) & Zoroastrianism God of Light...
Mithra

Roman society from Nero to Marcus Aurelius By Samuel Dill Page xxi
Mithra-Ormuzd
"Mithra identified with the Sun-The astral lore of Babylonia inseperable from Mithraism..."
Sir Samuel Dill (1844–1924) the distinguished Ulster-born classical scholar and educationist, was educated at the Royal Belfast Academical Institution and what was then Queen’s College, Belfast, and held the chair of Greek at Queen’s from 1890 until his death in 1924. He had previously been a fellow of Corpus Christi College, Oxford, and High Master of the Manchester Grammar School.

Avesta Khorda Avesta: Book of Common Prayer By James Darmesteter Page 18
"We sacrifice to the immortal, radient, swift-horsed Sun, we sacrifice to Mithra of wide cattle pastures..."
Page 84
144. We sacrifice unto Mithra, the lord of wide pastures, who is truth speaking, a chief assemblies, with a thousand ears,
well shapen, with a thousand eyes, high with full knowledge, strong, sleepless, and ever awake.

Mithraic studies: proceedings of the first International congress of ... By John R. Hinnells Page 291
"Because of this act of Mithras is thus identified as the act of creation, the scences depicted in the side panels of many Mithraic reliefs and paintings are interpreted as representations of the primeval life of the god, in which he perfomred miracles, experrienced various adventures, and celebrated an archetypal communion meal before he ascended into heaven"
John R. Hinnells, Ph.D.Former Professor of Zoroastrian Studies
School of Oriental and African Studies, London, UK


Tammuz
Resurrection-3 Days
Weekend Edition
December 24/25, 2005
The True Meaning of December 25th
Happy Birthday Mithras! By GARY LEUPP
"Inana grieving for her husband Tammuz, who had died after being gored in the groin by a bull, follows him to the netherworld. There are differing stories but in one she achieves his resurrection; in another, the resurrection of both is accomplished by the god of wisdom Enki, on the third day."

Virgin Birth
"A Sumerian/Akkadian god of fertility who died and was resurrected. Mentioned in Ezekiel 8:14. The Phoenecians lived in what is today Lebanon. Product of a virgin birth."
http://cr.middlebury.edu/public/russ...fertility.html

"Simarimis distraught and bewildered had a plan to bring back her beloved husband. She got herself pregnant and asserted that she was pregnant from her dead husband, now in the heavens, in a virgin birth. She gave birth to a son Tammuz, the reincarnation of Nimrod and god the son."
http://www.sabbathchurch.org/antichrist.html

Thank God for Evolution: How the Marriage of Science and Religion Will ... By Michael Dowd Page
"One may choose to believe or disbelieve any of these miracle stories. However, that these stories exist is beyond argument. Undeniable, too, is that miracle stories about in many different traditions and that the older they are, the more extrodiary the claims tend to be. Not surprisingly, as a number of authors have noted, many parallels exist between the stories of Jesus recorded int eh early Christian scriptures and stories that predate Christianity:

Born of a virgin: Dionysus, Horus, Tammuz, Krishna, Zarathustra, Buddha, Lao-Tzu, Attis, Heracles.

Sons of the Supreme God: Dionysus, Krishna, Mithra, Heracles

Death or torture by crucifixion (including bound to or embedded within a tree or stone: Dionysus, Osiris, Krishna, Prometheus

Resurrection and ascension: Osiris, Tammuz, Krishna, Mithras, Adonis."
http://books.google.com/books?id=KPa...muz%20&f=false

and:
"Consider the plethora of other such stories of virgin birth that preceded the birth story of Jesus:
...
Ishtar, viring mother of Tammuz (born on December 25th)
Maya, virgin mother of Buddha
..."

Tammuz and Ishtar: a monograph upon Babylonian religion and theology ... By Stephen Langdon Page 81-82
"In my own editions of Sumerian texts I have consistently rendered this title (mugig) by virgin. Any translation would be open to objection. The word really means 'the undefiled', but both Sumerians and Semites intended to convey the idea of 'consecrated to the godess of birth' and hence it came to be a euphemish for 'defiled', 'harlot'...I shall revert to my original opinion that she was in a literal sense termed 'undefiled'. a virgin to whose service human virgins were consecreated to nameless shame."
To further illustrate this title I shall cite a few passages:
The virgin in the temple stood.
With wailing the sister entered she the virgin.
The virgin queen, queen of heaven, cried aloud at sunset
The queen of heaven unto her habitations destroyed went forth
Holy one to the virgin mother return, maiden merciful..."

We have here the idea of a virgin mother and a divine son who suffers death and returns to life. It is he whom the Sumerians called the Damu-zi, the 'faithful son'.

Page 1
Tammuz is the name of the Babylonian god who corresponds to the Egyptian Osiris, the Phoenician and Greek Adonis, the Phrygian Attis and other well-known types of the dying son of mother Earth. The worship of Tammuz in Babylonia and in those adjacent lands to which it spread was a cult of sorrow, death and resurrection."
Stephen Herbert Langdon was an American-born British Assyriologist. Langdon studied at the University of Michigan, participating in Phi Beta Kappa and earning an A. B. in 1898 and an A. M. in 1899. Following this he went to New York's Union Theological Seminary, graduating in 1903, and then on to Columbia University to obtain a Ph.D. in 1904.

Jesus Christ, sun of God: ancient cosmology and early Christian symbolism By David Fideler 175
The way had been prepared by Orphism and the resurrected Dionysus, so that when Jesus says in the fourth Gospel that "I am the true vine," it was no doubt read, and probably meant, that he was the true savior, "the true Dionysus."
Orphism promulgated the idea of eternal life, a concept of "original sin" and purification, the punisment of the wicked int eh afterlife, and the allegorical interpretation of myth, which the early church fathers applied to the Christian scriptures. Orpheus was known as the Good Shepherd, and Jesus was frequently represented as Orpheus, playing music and surrounded by animals, a symbol of the Peacable Kingdom or the Golden Age, representing the ever present harmony of the Logos. Like Orpheus, Jesus descened to Hell as a savior of souls."
Also on
Page 160
"January 6 was also the date of Dionysian wine miracles. Water drawn from the nile on this day was said to turn to wine, and many similar instances are reported from antiquity as taking place on this date. Jesus states in the Fourth Gospel that "I am the true vine," the true Dionysus. Since Dionysus was the resurrected savior of the Orphics in Greece, it is unlikely that the author of the Fourth Gospel was ignorant of the connections he was acknowledging with the January 6 wine miracle at Cana."
Fideler holds a Ph.D. in Philosophy and the History of Science and Cosmology



Pictures of Saviors...
http://web.archive.org/web/200712291...bl_saviors.htm

http://web.archive.org/web/200712220...l_saviors2.htm

http://web.archive.org/web/200712261...l_saviors3.htm

Osiris Djed
http://a10.idata.over-blog.com/500x7.../Djed/ani1.jpg



“Others, with greater regard to good manners, it must be confessed, suppose that the sun is the god of the Christians, because it is a well-known fact that we pray towards the east, or because we make Sunday a day of festivity. What then? Do you do less than this? Do not many among you, with an affectation of sometimes worshipping the heavenly bodies likewise, move your lips in the direction of the sunrise?" - Tertullian, Ad Nationes, CHAP. XIII


Integrating Gods from Elsewhere
"The Romans were extraordinary tolerant of religions, because they believed all gods had power, and the Romans wanted the gods to work for them
and not their enemies. So they adopted cults from all over the Empire and beyond, and combined them with their own gods".
Guy de la Bédoyère was educated at King's College School, Wimbledon and Wimbledon College.
He took an archaeology and history degree at Collingwood College,
Durham in 1980, part of Durham University, with a subsidiary paper in Egyptology,
a degree in modern history at the University of London in 1985, and an MA in Archaeology
at the Institute of Archaeology.
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Old 03-11-2011, 09:52 PM   #11
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Celtic spirituality By Oliver Davies, Thomas O'Loughlin Page 490
"Christ as "the sun" or "the true sun" is a complex
theme in early Christian writing which has survived
in one or two places in the Latin liturgy even down to modern times. The theme uses a great variety of scriptural passages to develop its mythological
coherence such as Matt. 13:42; 17:2; and Rev. 22:5."
Oliver Davies, the professor of Christian doctrine at King's College, London

"Putting to use the then-popular method of allegorical theology, some reasoned that Christ must have born on the same day the sun was created. Polycarp (d. 155 AD), for example, suggested that Christ was born on a Wednesday, since the sun was created on the fourth day in Genesis."
Religiousfacts.com/christianity/h­olidays/christmas.htm

Dictionary of Jesus and the Gospels
Page 317
"This means that Hellenistic parallels can be found to many features in the Gospels like their understanding of demon possession and of natural phenomena. Sometimes it is hard to tell whether we are dealing with direct Hellenistic influence or a parallel development of ideas. Thus the motif of walking on water is paralleled in the Argonautic saga but may in fact have closer links with the OT ideas of Yahweh's conquest of the unruly sea..."
Page 485
"Yet early in the first century BC at least in the eastern part of the empire, the term kyrios, in the sense of divinity was being applied not only to mythological gods like Seraphis or Osiris but to one particular human being, the Roman emperor."
Page 484
"The term kyrios was used both in religious and secular contexts in the NT era. On the one hand, both national and mystery religions, especially in the East (ie Egypt Syria, Asia Minor, but also in Greece and elsewhere) frequently used the term kyrios or its male equivalent kyria to refer to gods and goddesses such as Isis, Serapis or Osiris. For instance, we have evidence of the use of the term in countless papyri and inscriptions of Serapis"
Page 331-332
"These cults included those of Isis and Serapis from Egypt, of Cybele, the Great Mother, and of Attis. Ancient Greek nature cults such as the Eleusinian and Dionysiac mysteries were revitalized. This was an age of syncretism when the gods of one people were assimilated to those of another. Greek Gods were identified with their Roman and oriental counterparts, taking on new traits as they did so."
By Joel B. Green Ph.D. is Associate Dean for the Center for Advanced Theological Studies and Professor of New Testament Interpretation at Fuller Theological Seminary

"The birth of Christ was assigned the date of the winter solstice (December 25 in the Julian calendar, January 6 in the Egyptian), because on this day, as the Sun began its return to northern skies, the pagan devotees of Mithras celebrated the Dies Natalis Solis Invicti (Birthday of the Invincible Sun). On December 25, 274, [Roman Emperor] Aurelian had proclaimed the Sun God the principal patron of the Empire and dedicated a temple to Him in the Campus Martius. Christmas originated at a time when the cult of the Sun was particularly strong at Rome."
-- New Catholic Encyclopaedia (Vol. III, p.656, 1967 ed.)

"A correspondence of Emperor Hadrian refers to Alexandrian worshippers of Serapis calling themselves ‘Bishops of Christ’:
'Egypt, which you commended to me, my dearest Servianus, I have found to be wholly fickle and inconsistent, and continually wafted about by every breath of fame. The worshipers of Serapis (here) are called Christians, and those who are devoted to the god Serapis (I find), call themselves Bishops of Christ.'
–Hadrian to Servianus, 134A.D. (Quoted by Giles, ii p86)
In fact, it appears that some followers of Serapis were eventually expelled from Rome when, in 19 AD, Tiberius also expelled the Jews.
Nevertheless, how great confusion between Serapis and Christ could have existed is really somewhat questionable. In 68 AD, a mob of pagans is said to have formed at the Serapis Temple in Alexandria, who then descended on the Christians who were celebrating Easter at Baucalis. There, they sized St. Mark, dragging him through the streets, before throwing him in prison. Clearly those worshippers of Serapis and Christ were aware of each other and the differences within their religions, though perhaps at a later date, some amongst the worshippers of either may have chosen to cover all of their options.
On the other hand, some have pointed out that Chrestus (Christus) was another name for the Egyptian god, Serapis. Chrestus may be translated as "Messiah", though the term need not apply to any specific Messiah, such as Jesus. It therefore could have simply been applied to "Lord Serapis", so that in fact, there was never any connection at all between the early Christians and the worshippers of Serapis."
http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/serapis.htm

Dictionary of Jesus and the Gospels
Page 317
"This means that Hellenistic parallels can be found to many features in the Gospels like their understanding of demon possession and of natural phenomena. Sometimes it is hard to tell whether we are dealing with direct Hellenistic influence or a parallel developmetn of ideas. Thus the motif of walking on water is paralleled in the Argonautic saga but may in fact have closer links with the OT ideas of Yahweh's conquest of the unruly sea..."
Page 485
"Yet early in the first century BC at least in the eastern part of the empire, the term kyrios, in the sense of divinity was being applied not only to mythological gods like Seraphis or Osiris but to one particular human being, the Roman emperor."
Page 484
"The term kyrios was used both in religious and secular contexts in the NT era. On the one hand, both national and mystery religions, especially in the East (ie Egypt Syria, Asia Minor, but also in Greece and elsewhere) frequently used the term kyrios or its male equivalent kyria to refer to gods and goddesses such as Isis, Serapis or Osiris. For instance, we have evidence of the use of the term in countless papyri and inscriptions of Serapis"
By Joel B. Green Ph.D. is Associate Dean for the Center for Advanced Theological Studies and Professor of New Testament Interpretation at Fuller Theological Seminary


Justin Martyr Chapter 21. Analogies to the history of Christ
"And when we say also that the Word, who is the first-birth of God, was produced without sexual union, and that He, Jesus Christ, our Teacher, was crucified and died, and rose again, and ascended into heaven, we propound nothing different from what you believe regarding those whom you esteem sons of Jupiter. For you know how many sons your esteemed writers ascribed to Jupiter: Mercury, the interpreting word and teacher of all; Æsculapius, who, though he was a great physician, was struck by a thunderbolt, and so ascended to heaven; and Bacchus too, after he had been torn limb from limb; and Hercules, when he had committed himself to the flames to escape his toils; and the sons of Leda, and Dioscuri; and Perseus, son of Danae; and Bellerophon, who, though sprung from mortals, rose to heaven on the horse Pegasus. For what shall I say of Ariadne, and those who, like her, have been declared to be set among the stars? And what of the emperors who die among yourselves, whom you deem worthy of deification, and in whose behalf you produce some one who swears he has seen the burning Cæsar rise to heaven from the funeral pyre? And what kind of deeds are recorded of each of these reputed sons of Jupiter, it is needless to tell to those who already know. This only shall be said, that they are written for the advantage and encouragement of youthful scholars; for all reckon it an honourable thing to imitate the gods. But far be such a thought concerning the gods from every well-conditioned soul, as to believe that Jupiter himself, the governor and creator of all things, was both a parricide and the son of a parricide, and that being overcome by the love of base and shameful pleasures, he came in to Ganymede and those many women whom he had violated and that his sons did like actions. But, as we said above, wicked devils perpetrated these things. And we have learned that those only are deified who have lived near to God in holiness and virtue; and we believe that those who live wickedly and do not repent are punished in everlasting fire.
Chapter 22. Analogies to the sonship of Christ
Moreover, the Son of God called Jesus, even if only a man by ordinary generation, yet, on account of His wisdom, is worthy to be called the Son of God; for all writers call God the Father of men and gods. And if we assert that the Word of God was born of God in a peculiar manner, different from ordinary generation, let this, as said above, be no extraordinary thing to you, who say that Mercury is the angelic word of God. But if any one objects that He was crucified, in this also He is on a par with those reputed sons of Jupiter of yours, who suffered as we have now enumerated. For their sufferings at death are recorded to have been not all alike, but diverse; so that not even by the peculiarity of His sufferings does He seem to be inferior to them; but, on the contrary, as we promised in the preceding part of this discourse, we will now prove Him superior— or rather have already proved Him to be so— for the superior is revealed by His actions. And if we even affirm that He was born of a virgin, accept this in common with what you accept of Perseus. And in that we say that He made whole the lame, the paralytic, and those born blind, we seem to say what is very similar to the deeds said to have been done by Æsculapius."
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0126.htm

"The "Ad nationes" has for its entire object the refutation of calumnies against Christians. In the first place they are proved to repose on unreasoning hatred only; the procedure of trial is illogical; the offence is nothing but the name of Christian, which ought rather to be a title of honour; no proof is forthcoming of any crimes, only rumour; the first persecutor was Nero, the worst of emperors. Secondly, the individual charges are met; Tertullian challenges the reader to believe in anything so contrary to nature as the accusations of infanticide and incest. Christians are not the causes of earthquakes and floods and famine, for these happened long before Christianity. The pagans despise their own gods, banish them, forbid their worship, mock them on the stage; the poets tell horrid stories of them; they were in reality only men, and bad men. You say we worship an ass's head, he goes on, but you worship all kinds of animals; your gods are images made on a cross framework, so you worship crosses.


You say we worship the sun; so do you."
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14520c.htm


Our Sun-God: Or Christianity Before Christ By John Denham Parsons Page 88
Explanation that not only Jesus but also Jehova was a sun god.


Introduction to the history of Christianity By Tim Dowley Page 141
Describes the pagan practices of the Christian church, December 25th Sun God's birthday, Isis combined with Mary, and Christains bowing down to the sun.
Tim Dowley (Ph.D. in church history, University of Manchester


The origin of Sunday worship is from Sun worshiping as explained here:
http://www.biblestudy.org/bibleref/f...of-sunday.html
Also states:
"Christ-the-Sun
In numerous pagan pictorial representations which have come down to us, the Sun or Mithra is portrayed as a man with a disk at the back of his head. (61) It is a known fact that this image of the Sun was used in early Christian art and literature to represent Christ, the true "Sun of righteousness." In the earliest known Christian mosaic (dated ca. A.D. 240) found in the Vatican necropolis below the altar of St. Peter (in the small mausoleum M. or the Iulii), Christ is portrayed as the Sun (Helios) ascending on the quadriga chariot with a flying cloak and a nimbus behind his head from which irradiate seven rays in the form of a T (allusion to the cross?). (62) Thousands of hours have been devoted to drawing the sun-disk with the equal-armed cross behind the head of Christ and (from the fifth century) the heads of other important persons.

The motif of the Sun was used not only by Christian artists to portray Christ but also by Christian teachers to proclaim Him to the pagan masses who were well acquainted with the rich Sun-symbology. Numerous Fathers abstracted and reinterpreted the pagan symbols and beliefs about the Sun and used them apologetically to teach the Christian message. (63) Does not the fact that Christ was early associated in iconography and in literature (if not in actual worship) with the Sol invictus— Invincible Sun, suggest the possibility that even the day of the Sun could readily have been adopted for worshiping Christ, the Sol iustitiae—the Sun of Justice? It would require only a short step to worship Christ-the-Sun, on the day specifically dedicated to the Sun."
and:
"F. A. Regan reaches after an extensive analysis of patristic references dealing with the orientation toward the East. He writes:

"A suitable, single example of the pagan influence may be had from an investigation of the Christian custom of turning toward the East, the land of the rising sun, while offering their prayers. ... For in the transition from the observance of the Sabbath to the celebration of the Lord’s day, the primitive Christians not only substituted the first day of the week for the seventh, but they went even further and changed the traditional Jewish practice of facing toward Jerusalem during their daily period of prayer." (70)
The strong attraction exerted by the solar cults on the Christians suggests the possibility therefore that these influenced not only the adoption of the eastward direction for daily prayers but also of the day of the Sun for the weekly worship."



"A prominent religion in the Roman Empire at the time Christianity was developing was
Mithraism. Mithraism was a form of sun worship which was brought back from Persia by the
Roman armies. It was particularly strong among the Roman armies. Jacquetta Hawkes the
famous British Archaeologist, states:
“The Christians of the first three centuries had denied the tolerance and compromise of
other faiths, had gladly suffered horrible martyrdoms for refusing a pinch of incense to the
imperial altars. Yet with the malicious irony so often apparent in history, even while they
fought heroically on one front, their position was infiltrated from another...No more than a
bird can build its nest exclusively with its own feathers could the Christian leaders build a
faith, rites and church without picking up all manner of extraneous material from the
Greco-Roman environment....Perhaps most of all Christianity became involved with the Sun
God through Mithraism.....the Empire was partly Christianised and the church partly
paganised....I do not think it would be an exaggeration to say that in the fourth century and
for some time afterwards there was for many people of the western empire a total
confusion between state Christianity and the state sun worship it displaced.
3
She proceeds to talk of some of the ideas of Mithraism that became part of Christian
worship. The observance of the 25th of December as the birthday of Christ was one
example:
“....blurring of the two celebrations was inevitable. Augustine [a Church leader] had to
exhort the brethren not to solemnise the day on account of the sun like the heathen, but
rather on account of him who made the sun....Much of the rest of the early Christian year
runs side by side with the cycle of the sun. Thus after the Nativity at the winter solstice,
Easter is on the Sunday following the first full moon after the Vernal Equinox, an
appropriate date to celebrate the Resurrection....In addition to this solar pattern of the
Christian year, there was the naming of Sunday as the holy day of the Christian week."
http://revelationhope.com/assets/249282

Greek myths and Christian mystery By Hugo Rahner Page 89
"In the pages that follow I shall endeavour to show how Christianity both rejected and absorbed the light
of the solar devotion, how in reflecting it, it changed and transfigured it, and how finally it guided that confused mass of belief, practice and aspiration back to the gentle simplicity of truth that had been found at last."
Hugo Rahner, was a German Jesuit, Theologian and was Dean and President of Innsbruck University
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Old 03-11-2011, 10:21 PM   #12
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One of those faulty premises that we often see is that the Roman's invented the crucifixion.... impale your body on a pole. And the birds will eat away your flesh.”

The old testament god also used crucifixion as a means of punishment here:

Deut. 21: 22 If someone guilty of a capital offense is put to death and their body is exposed on a pole, 23 you must not leave the body hanging on the pole overnight because anyone who is hung on a tree is under God's curse. You must not desecrate the land the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance.

Notice here that the different versions sway between a pole and a tree here http://bible.cc/deuteronomy/21-23.htm

We will find that a cross is not necessary and not always prevalent in the various myths. Sometimes it is just a pole, stake, wood, or tree as both of these are used in the Bible. As shown in the Deuteronomy verse, death on a pole while being exposed was used by Yahweh as punishment.
But the film zietgiest deals heavily with the cross (the southern hemisphere constallation) you've provided lovely examples of poles but no mention of crosses, why is a tree constallation not used or a pole constallation? - it would match more of the other false messiahs rather than Jesus.
It seems to me that the whole constallation thing has just been used as a means to attack one specific messiah rather than confirm that all are the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hurt4ever1 View Post
One of the problems with the copycat theory that some Christians argue against is that they think that the bible came first and these other religions copied off of their bible. So they look for similarities in the Egyptian, Greek, Sumerian and other myths to see if they match the bible, what they should be doing is checking to see if the bible matches the older myths. If you think someone is copying something, you do not look at the original to see if they are copying, you look at their paper to see if there are parallels to what they are accused of copying. One of the problems though is that until recently, these texts were not available to the average person so most of us do not know the stories of Osiris, Horus, Attis, Buddha, unless we have taken it upon ourselves to study them.
If someone wants to get away with plagiarism, they do not copy word for word, they use the original as a format and then make up stuff as they go along that fits into what the orginal says. My claim is that the Romans used the earlier pagan-sun cult texts to create a new religion and to write the bible. This would explain the reason why they wanted to wipe out the Pagan texts and temples. This is what was done with the myths before the bible with all the different myths and gods while most of them were actually conflated. It is no more proposterous to claim that Jesus is a myth than it is for Buddha.
Have you considered that according to the Bible, since the first prophecy ever made was regarding an offspring who would crush the head of the serpent, you'd naturally find people in history deluded enough to make the claim of being messiah? just as we see today with his second comming?
Consider each of those messiah stories too, they were legends that were distributed freely amongst people with little or no opposition from governing authorities at the time, Christians however were burnt at the stake for what they believed, they were considered enemies to the Romans - and what for? the sermon on the mount?
Jesus is the real deal, all the others are poor counterfeits.

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Originally Posted by hurt4ever1 View Post
Horus
1. Born on Dec 25th
Yeah we know chapter and verse on Jesus' birthday please.
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Old 03-11-2011, 10:35 PM   #13
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But the film zietgiest deals heavily with the cross (the southern hemisphere constallation) you've provided lovely examples of poles but no mention of crosses, why is a tree constallation not used or a pole constallation? - it would match more of the other false messiahs rather than Jesus.
It seems to me that the whole constallation thing has just been used as a means to attack one specific messiah rather than confirm that all are the same.



Have you considered that according to the Bible, since the first prophecy ever made was regarding an offspring who would crush the head of the serpent, you'd naturally find people in history deluded enough to make the claim of being messiah? just as we see today with his second comming?
Consider each of those messiah stories too, they were legends that were distributed freely amongst people with little or no opposition from governing authorities at the time, Christians however were burnt at the stake for what they believed, they were considered enemies to the Romans - and what for? the sermon on the mount?
Jesus is the real deal, all the others are poor counterfeits.


Yeah we know chapter and verse on Jesus' birthday please.
First of all, no, the video doesn't deal heavily with the crux constellation, it deals with the fact that Jesus evolved from earlier religions, the crux constellation is pointing out that these religions were astrotheological.

Just like the story of Jesus is proof here: http://usbible.com/usbible/

Crux constellation VIDEO PROOF:


Both Horus and Jesus's birthdays were ASSIGNED on those days.

It wasn't atheists that assigned that day for Jesus's birth. Just like it wasn't atheists that assigned the date of Easter or called it the name of a pagan goddess. It wasn't atheists who sing "WE THREE KING OF ORIENT ARE" either. Nor is it atheists that claim that "JESUS IS THE REASON FOR THE SEASON" on Christmas day, nor is it atheists who gripe when people say X-mas either.

These are all Christian TRADITIONS.
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Old 04-11-2011, 12:59 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by hurt4ever1 View Post
First of all, no, the video doesn't deal heavily with the crux constellation, it deals with the fact that Jesus evolved from earlier religions, the crux constellation is pointing out that these religions were astrotheological.

Just like the story of Jesus is proof here: http://usbible.com/usbible/

Crux constellation VIDEO PROOF:http://www.youtube.com/user/changing.../0/R9yfmeOGVF8
These religions? you've already pointed out that none of them bar Jesus was crucified on a cross (a tree or pole was your claim) - therefore surely a tree or pole constellation would have been more appropriate and encompassing.
As stated before, all this tells me is that the whole southern cross constellation thing has just been used as a means to attack one specific messiah rather than confirm that all are the same.

Personally, when in the southern hemisphere, I look at the Southern cross as a means to tell me where south is, just as when in the northern hemisphere I look at the plough to tell me where the pole star is, all this "the sun = son" ,"the sun not moving for 3 days", dying on the southern cross" is just lame.

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Originally Posted by hurt4ever1 View Post
Both Horus and Jesus's birthdays were ASSIGNED on those days.

It wasn't atheists that assigned that day for Jesus's birth. Just like it wasn't atheists that assigned the date of Easter or called it the name of a pagan goddess. It wasn't atheists who sing "WE THREE KING OF ORIENT ARE" either. Nor is it atheists that claim that "JESUS IS THE REASON FOR THE SEASON" on Christmas day, nor is it atheists who gripe when people say X-mas either.

These are all Christian TRADITIONS.
Assigned? good, I'm glad you agree then.
In reality they don't have that similarity.

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Old 04-11-2011, 01:23 AM   #15
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These religions? you've already pointed out that none of them bar Jesus was crucified on a cross (a tree or pole was your claim) - therefore surely a tree or pole constellation would have been more appropriate and encompassing.
As stated before, all this tells me is that the whole southern cross constellation thing has just been used as a means to attack one specific messiah rather than confirm that all are the same.

Personally, when in the southern hemisphere, I look at the Southern cross as a means to tell me where south is, just as when in the northern hemisphere I look at the plough to tell me where the pole star is, all this "the sun = son" ,"the sun not moving for 3 days", dying on the southern cross" is just lame.


Assigned? good, I'm glad you agree then.

In reality they don't have that similarity.
Sorry, but you are another Christian who doesn't know what the bible says...


Acts 5:30 (NIV) The God of our fathers raised Jesus from the dead—whom you had killed by hanging him on a tree.
Acts 10:39 “We are witnesses of everything he did in the country of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They killed him by hanging him on a tree,
Acts 13:29 When they had carried out all that was written about him, they took him down from the tree and laid him in a tomb.
Galatians 3:13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.”
1 Peter 2:24 He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; by his wounds you have been healed.

Yes, they were both assigned the birth date of December 25th because both of them were mythological beings.

The 'SON/sun dying on the cross' and that is in reference to what the Christians themselves say.

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Old 04-11-2011, 03:44 AM   #16
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Sorry, but you are another Christian who doesn't know what the bible says...


Acts 5:30 (NIV) The God of our fathers raised Jesus from the dead—whom you had killed by hanging him on a tree.
Acts 10:39 “We are witnesses of everything he did in the country of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They killed him by hanging him on a tree,
Acts 13:29 When they had carried out all that was written about him, they took him down from the tree and laid him in a tomb.
Galatians 3:13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.”
1 Peter 2:24 He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; by his wounds you have been healed.
So a tree constellation would be better? super, I'm glad you've pointed this out, so we both agree that the whole southern cross constellation thing has just been used as a means to attack one specific messiah rather than confirm that all are the same, just as I stated in my first response.

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Yes, they were both assigned the birth date of December 25th because both of them were mythological beings.
No, the date of the 25th of December isn't Biblical, and instead it was adopted by Roman Christians when the official religion of Rome changed from the pagan religions to that of Christianity.
A great modern day equivalent is the late spring holiday of the Queens Birthday in Hong Kong. Since the handover in 1997 that's been reassigned to the 'Buddha's Birthday'. - Does this make the Buddha a British Monarch? does it make the Queen an ancient eastern sage? I think not.

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The 'SON/sun dying on the cross' and that is in reference to what the Christians themselves say.
This swapping of terms only works in English - c'mon man, don't be stupid.

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Old 04-11-2011, 04:07 AM   #17
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So a tree constellation would be better? super, I'm glad you've pointed this out, so we both agree that the whole southern cross constellation thing has just been used as a means to attack one specific messiah rather than confirm that all are the same, just as I stated in my first response.



No, the date of the 25th of December isn't Biblical, and instead it was adopted by Roman Christians when the official religion of Rome changed from the pagan religions to that of Christianity.
A great modern day equivalent is the late spring holiday of the Queens Birthday in Hong Kong. Since the handover in 1997 that's been reassigned to the 'Buddha's Birthday'. - Does this make the Buddha a British Monarch? does it make the Queen an ancient eastern sage? I think not.



This swapping of terms only works in English - c'mon man, don't be stupid.
I specifically explained that they were ASSIGNED birthdays for both Horus and Jesus. Yes, it was the Catholic Church that assigned Jesus's birthday for the birth of the sun, I covered this in the texts that I wrote, please read before you comment again.


Son and sun compared:

son O.E. sunu "son," from P.Gmc. *sunuz (cf. O.S., O.Fris. sunu, O.N. sonr, Dan. søn, Swed. son, M.Du. sone, Du. zoon, O.H.G. sunu, Ger. Sohn, Goth. sunus "son"), from PIE *sunu-/*sunyu- (cf. Skt. sunus, Gk. huios, Avestan hunush, Armenian ustr, Lith. sunus, O.C.S. synu, Rus., Pol. syn "son"), from root *su- "to give birth" (cf. Skt. sauti "gives birth," O.Ir. suth "birth, offspring"). Sonny as a familiar form of address to one younger or inferior is from 1870. Son of _____ as the title of a sequel to a book or movie is recorded from 1929.

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?...earchmode=none

sun (n.) O.E. sunne, from P.Gmc. *sunnon (cf. O.N., O.S., O.H.G. sunna, M.Du. sonne, Du. zon, Ger. Sonne, Goth. sunno), from PIE *s(u)wen- (cf. Avestan xueng "sun," O.Ir. fur-sunnud "lighting up"), alternative form of base *saewel- "to shine, sun" (see Sol). O.E. sunne was fem., and the fem. pronoun was used until 16c.; since then masc. has prevailed. The empire on which the sun never sets (1630) originally was the Spanish, later the British. To have one's place in the sun (1680s) is from Pascal's "Pensées"; the German imperial foreign policy sense (1897) is from a speech by von Bülow.

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?...earchmode=none

Transliterated:
Greek Son Helios
Greek Son Huios

Actual letters:Son-γιός
Actual letters:Sun-ήλιος

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Old 04-11-2011, 05:20 AM   #18
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I specifically explained that they were ASSIGNED birthdays for both Horus and Jesus. Yes, it was the Catholic Church that assigned Jesus's birthday for the birth of the sun, I covered this in the texts that I wrote, please read before you comment again.
I'm not going to trawl through all your posts when the answer is written for me above, "ASSIGNED" ie no one knows the date of the birth of Jesus Christ.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hurt4ever1 View Post
Son and sun compared:

son O.E. sunu "son," from P.Gmc. *sunuz (cf. O.S., O.Fris. sunu, O.N. sonr, Dan. søn, Swed. son, M.Du. sone, Du. zoon, O.H.G. sunu, Ger. Sohn, Goth. sunus "son"), from PIE *sunu-/*sunyu- (cf. Skt. sunus, Gk. huios, Avestan hunush, Armenian ustr, Lith. sunus, O.C.S. synu, Rus., Pol. syn "son"), from root *su- "to give birth" (cf. Skt. sauti "gives birth," O.Ir. suth "birth, offspring"). Sonny as a familiar form of address to one younger or inferior is from 1870. Son of _____ as the title of a sequel to a book or movie is recorded from 1929.

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?...earchmode=none

sun (n.) O.E. sunne, from P.Gmc. *sunnon (cf. O.N., O.S., O.H.G. sunna, M.Du. sonne, Du. zon, Ger. Sonne, Goth. sunno), from PIE *s(u)wen- (cf. Avestan xueng "sun," O.Ir. fur-sunnud "lighting up"), alternative form of base *saewel- "to shine, sun" (see Sol). O.E. sunne was fem., and the fem. pronoun was used until 16c.; since then masc. has prevailed. The empire on which the sun never sets (1630) originally was the Spanish, later the British. To have one's place in the sun (1680s) is from Pascal's "Pensées"; the German imperial foreign policy sense (1897) is from a speech by von Bülow.

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?...earchmode=none

Transliterated:
Greek Son Helios
Greek Son Huios

Actual letters:Son-γιός
Actual letters:Sun-ήλιος
Man, that is so unconvincing.
I'm sure the Greek manuscripts of say Matthew 3:17 let alone all of the others refer to his son and not the sun.
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Old 04-11-2011, 05:28 AM   #19
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I'm not going to trawl through all your posts when the answer is written for me above, "ASSIGNED" ie no one knows the date of the birth of Jesus Christ.



Man, that is so unconvincing.
I'm sure the Greek manuscripts of say Matthew 3:17 let alone all of the others refer to his son and not the sun.
Then do not expect me to comment back, if you do not want to READ what I spent hours upon hours of researching.

ZG never said that the bible refers to the SUN being the SON or vice versa. These are straw man arguments, do not waste my time.
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Old 04-11-2011, 08:09 AM   #20
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do not waste my time.
It seems to me that you are quite capable of doing that without my help.
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