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Old 28-10-2011, 03:20 PM   #221
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People bash Judaism because they think the Talmud is Judaism I am sorry one has nothing to do with the other.

.
Wrong and many authorative Jewish figures Rabbis etc disgaree with you. The Mosaic/Jewish laws cannot be interpreted and implemented without Talmud it is what hadiths are to the Koran.

Hadiths = words and deeds of Muhammad/

Part of the talmud = Moses laws (mosaic) which he passed on by word of mouth to his succesors and parts of the laws hadn't been written into the Jewish bible, hence the talmud was written .

You don't believe me do some research all I've said is from legitimate Jewish sources. I'm here for the truth.
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Old 28-10-2011, 03:21 PM   #222
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Replace the word goyim/gentile with Kaffir. There's your clue.
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Old 28-10-2011, 03:25 PM   #223
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I'm here for the truth.
All religion sucks.
Now stfu.
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Old 28-10-2011, 03:29 PM   #224
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Wrong and many authorative Jewish figures Rabbis etc disgaree with you. The Mosaic/Jewish laws cannot be interpreted and implemented without Talmud it is what hadiths are to the Koran.
Wrong, and they can disagree all they want
Talmud was written by the 70 rabbis it has nothing whatsoever to do with Judaism.


Quote:
Hadiths = words and deeds of Muhammad/
I know what a hadith is Thanks

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Part of the talmud = Moses laws (mosaic) which he passed on by word of mouth to his succesors and parts of the laws hadn't been written into the Jewish bible, hence the talmud was written .
It has nothing to do with what Moses passed on, it is a total lie, the Talmud was written by the Hebrew high priests to go against the word of GOD, please look it up, look up the truth why you keep repeating what is known as a common knowledge, it is false and has nothing to do with Judaism.

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You don't believe me do some research all I've said is from legitimate Jewish sources. I'm here for the truth.
I have done a research and that is why I am telling you it is wrong, the purpose of the Talmud is to completely corrupt Judaism.

It was written around the table by 70 so called Rabbis, under the heavy influence of the Babylonians
I spent my life looking at different sources, and unless you dig deeper you will not find the real sources, what is mostly available for people to find that easily is false and completely wrong and corrupt.
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Old 28-10-2011, 03:32 PM   #225
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Replace the word goyim/gentile with Kaffir. There's your clue.
Again wrong.
I guess you need to look at what these two words really mean instead of jumping into conclusions.

Kaffir is someone who doesn't believe in GOD, yes
If someone says to you Atheist, it sounds ok? So why is Kaffir sounds offensive?
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Old 28-10-2011, 03:41 PM   #226
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Wrong and many authorative Jewish figures Rabbis etc disgaree with you. The Mosaic/Jewish laws cannot be interpreted and implemented without Talmud it is what hadiths are to the Koran.
Do you know what al seera anabawiya?

For example, The Torah is a complete book, doesn't need any more added to it by some highly corrupt individuals at the time, just as it is today, their main aim is to attack anything that is divine, and that was the Babylonians at the time, and still doing the same thing today.

If you read parts of the Torah and then read the Talmud you will see that it is impossible that it came from the same source, it is so contradictory how can this possible.

When the Torah is calling for love of people, helping others, loving and the Talmud is literally the opposite it was man made all the way, every single word.

As for The Hadith let me repeat to you this again once more, if the Hadith can't be traced all the way to Mohamed has no relevancy it is dismissed in Islam.

Not all Hadiths are admissible, Unless it's hadith Sahih, now if people are happy picking up any rubbish and call it this is Islam they are free to do so, but that doesn't make it authentic.
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Old 28-10-2011, 03:43 PM   #227
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Adbasque you don't believe me do some research all I've said is from legitimate Jewish sources.


The Written Law is another name for the Torah. The Oral Law is a legal commentary on the Torah, explaining how its commandments are to be carried out. Common sense suggests that some sort of oral tradition was always needed to accompany the Written Law, because the Torah alone, even with its 613 commandments, is an insufficient guide to Jewish life. For example, the fourth of the Ten Commandments, ordains, "Remember the Sabbath day to make it holy" (Exodus 20:8). From the Sabbath's inclusion in the Ten Commandments, it is clear that the Torah regards it as an important holiday. Yet when one looks for the specific biblical laws regulating how to observe the day, one finds only injunctions against lighting a fire, going away from one's dwelling, cutting down a tree, plowing and harvesting. Would merely refraining from these few activities fulfill the biblical command to make the Sabbath holy? Indeed, the Sabbath rituals that are most commonly associated with holiness-lighting of candles, reciting the kiddush, and the reading of the weekly Torah portion are found not in the Torah, but in the Oral Law.




The Torah also is silent on many important subjects. We take it for granted that the large majority of couples want their wedding ceremony to be religious, but the Torah itself has nothing to say concerning a marriage ceremony. To be sure, the Torah presumes that people will get married — "Therefore shall a man leave his mother and father and cleave to his wife and they shall be one flesh" (Genesis 2:24) — but nowhere in the Torah is a marriage ceremony recorded. Only in the Oral Law do we find details on how to perform a Jewish wedding.
Without an oral tradition, some of the Torah's laws would be incomprehensible. In the Shema's first paragraph, the Bible instructs: "And these words which I command you this day shall be upon your heart. And you shall teach them diligently to your children, and you shall talk of them when you sit in your house, when you walk on the road, when you lie down and when you rise up. And you shall bind them for a sign upon your hand, and they shall be for frontlets between your eyes" (see Deuteronomy 6:4­8).
"Bind them for a sign upon your hand," the last verse instructs. Bind what? The Torah doesn't say. "And they shall be for frontlets between your eyes." What are frontlets? The Hebrew word for frontlets, totafot is used three times in the Torah — always in this context (Exodus 13:16; Deuteronomy 6:8, 11:18) — and is as obscure as is the English. Only in the Oral Law do we learn that what a Jewish male should bind upon his hand and between his eyes are tefillin (phylacteries).
Finally, an Oral Law was needed to mitigate certain categorical Torah laws that would have caused grave problems if carried out literally. The Written Law, for example, demands an "eye for an eye" (Exodus 21:24). Did this imply that if one person accidentally blinded another, he should be blinded in return? That seems to be the Torah's wish. But the Oral Law explains that the verse must be understood as requiring monetary compensation: the value of an eye is what must be paid.
For these three reasons-the frequent lack of details in Torah legislation, the incomprehensibility of some terms in the Torah, and the objections to following some Torah laws literally — an Oral Law was always necessary.



Strangely enough, the Oral Law today is a written law, codified in the Mishna and Talmud. Orthodox Judaism believes that most of the oral traditions recorded in these books dates back to God's revelation to Moses on Mount Sinai. When God gave Moses the Torah, Orthodoxy teaches, He simultaneously provided him all the details found in the Oral Law. It is believed that Moses subsequently transmitted that Oral Law to his successor, Joshua, who transmitted it to his successor, in a chain that is still being carried on (Ethics of the Fathers 1:1).
Given this chain of authority, one might wonder why the Mishna and Talmud are filled with debates between rabbis; shouldn't they have all been recipients of the same, unambiguous tradition? Orthodox teachers respond that the debates came about either because students forgot some of the details transmitted by their teachers, or because the Oral Law lacks specific teachings on the issue being discussed.
While Conservative and Reform Judaism also believe that some kind of Oral Law was always necessary to make the Torah comprehensible and workable, they reject the belief that most of the Talmud dates back to Moses' time. They are more apt to see the Talmud and the Oral Law as an evolving system, in which successive generations of rabbis discussed and debated how to incorporate the Torah into their lives. Thus, they feel more free than the Orthodox to ignore, modify, or change the Oral Law.
The differing views of Orthodox and Conservative Judaism on both the antiquity and binding nature of the Oral Law are one of the major, perhaps the major, issues separating them.


http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/.../Oral_Law.html

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Old 28-10-2011, 04:27 PM   #228
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Post Babylonian talmud

This is one part of what the Talmud really is:

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ON this, the appearance of our latest literary undertaking, we deem a few explanatory remarks necessary. The brief outline of the origin of the Talmud that follows may suggest the thought that we have departed from the usual manner of dealing with the questions here discussed, the more so since we have, for the sake of brevity, refrained from citing the authorities on which our statements are based. We wish, therefore, to declare here that we do not venture to make a single statement without the support of authorities well known in Hebrew literature. Our method is to select such views as seem to us the best authenticated in the historical progress of Judaism. As we have taken our choice from the numerous works on our subject, the student is entitled to adopt or to reject the views that we represent.

Most of the Mishnayoth date from a very early period, and originated with the students of the Jewish academies which existed since the days of Jehoshaphat, King of Judah [II Chron. xvii. 9].

The rabbinical students of ancient times noted the essence of the academical teachings in brief form, and, as a rule, in the idiom in which it was spoken to them, so that they could afterward easily commit it to memory. They have sometimes, however, added comments and extensive explanations in the form of notes, so that the mass of their learning, embraced in course of time, according to some authorities, as many as six hundred divisions.


The source of the Mishnayoth was the customs and regulations

practised by the authorities in their administration of religious and civil affairs: such as the Sabbath, Prayers, Cleanliness (considered actually Godliness), Permitted and Forbidden Foods, and controversies arising concerning Slavery. Indebtedness and corporal punishment are subjects of academical discussion, conducted with the aim of perfecting them into national statutes enforceable in all Jewish communities alike.

In course of time, however, when those Mishnayoth were noted down from earlier existing copies, many additions were made. Finally Rabbi Jehudah the Prince, generally called Rabbi, concluded to collect all the Mishnayoth in his college for proper arrangement. From these he selected six divisions, called according to the subject they deal with, viz.: Seeds, Feasts, Women, Damages, Sacrifices, and Purifications, and he proclaimed them holy for all Israel. Of the Mishnayoth so treated by Rabbi some were left entirely intact, and were reproduced in their original form. To others he parenthetically added brief comments of his own, and there are still others that he changed in form completely, because already in his day old customs had changed and taken new forms.

Such of them as he desired to make final and indisputable national laws he incorporated into the Mishna without mentioning the names of their authors. Where, however, he could formulate no definite decision himself, or where they were well known to the public, he gave full information of their authors as well as the names of those opposed to their conclusions, without any decision on his part. In still others he mentioned no names, but contented himself with saying "A'herim," i.e., "Anonymous teachers say," not wishing to specify their authority for certain reasons.

Rabbi did not seek the compliance and agreement of all his contemporaries in his arrangement of the Mishna, and many differed from his conclusions and even arranged Mishnayoth in accordance with their own views. Being, however, a man of great prominence, influence, and wealth, Rabbi succeeded in quelling opposition and in making his conclusions as acceptable as the Mosaic law itself; and his great pupils, seeing that his intentions

were only to prevent dissensions and his only aim the public weal, supported him nobly, until his teachings were accepted as the law of the nation.

Many Mishnayoth were rejected and destroyed by Rabbi, but, not being in possession of all those he wished to destroy, he went in search of them to colleges outside of his jurisdiction. There, however, he met with great opposition. Some of the Mishnayoth were hidden beyond his reach, others were secretly preserved and arranged within the very limits of his domain and promptly brought to light after his death. But Rabbi's pupils did not dignify them with the name MISHNA, implying "next to Mosaic law," 1 but called them TOSEPHTOTH, meaning "additions of a later period," or merely additional, not principal, matter. Some of them were also named BORAITHOTH (outsiders), i.e.,

secondary, not academical matter. They spread, however, very rapidly after Rabbi's death, and to such an extent as to threaten the Mishnayoth of Rabbi with entire extinction. Such would actually have been the result, had not the pupils of Rabbi organized again colleges whose aim was to perpetuate the Mishnayoth of Rabbi, which they also accomplished.

Colleges of that character were those of Rabh and Samuel in Babylon and Rabbi Janai and Rabbi Jo'hanan in Palestine. These colleges made strenuous efforts to explain and harmonize the Mishnayoth of Rabbi with the teachings of the Boraithoth, generally regarded as those of Rabbi Hyya and Rabbi Oshia, who were greatly admired by the public.


At times the Mishna of Rabbi was abbreviated and replenished with the text of the Boraitha, or explained with an opposing opinion, so as to harmonize it with the latter or suit the new conditions and consequent changes of the custom that originally caused the conclusion of the Mishna. Where, however, they found no other way to suit their purpose, they inserted a new Mishna of their own composition into the text of Rabbi.

The teachers mentioned in the Mishna of Rabbi or in the Boraithoth and Tosephta were called Tanaim (singular Tana) signifying Instructors, Professors. The teachings of the colleges, covering a period of some centuries, which also found adherents and became the traditional law, were called GEMARA, signifying "conclusion."

The intention was to harmonize Mishna and Boraitha, and, in most cases, to arrive at a final decision as to the theory of the law (as Rabbi the proper interpretation or Jo'hanan prohibited compliance with the Halakha unless it is mandatory). These Gemara teachers were called AMORAIM (interpreters), i.e., they interpreted to the public the difficult passages in the Mishna. Being classified as interpreters only, they had no authority to deviate from the spirit of the Mishna unless supported by another Tana opposing the Mishna, in which case they could follow
I don't want to flood the entire forum with this
Take a look at this:

SOURCE

And I have over the years read many other sources which go in more depth on how the whole of the Talmud came about and it was never a reflection of God's commands or words, not any reflection of the Prophet Moses (PBUH)


Now it's up to people to make up their own minds on what is true and what is false.
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Old 28-10-2011, 07:18 PM   #229
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Smile Dispelling Myths About Sharia Law In Al-Islam

PART ONE

I will post this and then I will quit this Thread, it is irrelevant to me, spend my time chasing after the PTB's propaganda Via his controlled MSM.

And lies spread across the internet with fabricated evidence, such as videos, and articles written by the Hateful websites funded by the extremists and the Zionists.

From this point on, everyone is entitled to their point of view:

Quote:

In the eyes of history, religious toleration is the highest evidence of culture in a people. It was not until the Western nations broke away from their religious law that they became more tolerant, and it was only when the Muslims fell away from their religious law that they declined in tolerance and other evidences of the highest culture. Therefore the difference evident in that anecdote is not of manners only, but of religion. Tolerance was regarded as un-religious, if not irreligious. Before the coming of Al-Islam it had never been preached as an essential part of religion.” (M. Marmaduke Pickthall, English Historian and translator of the Qur’an)

More to come:
Please take time to read through, and don't take things out of context
I am making it clear this is the last time I will get involved in any of this:


Quote:

Today, most Western opinions of what life would be like for non-Muslims under Islamic rule are based on ignorance and fear. This fear is compounded further by media reports about behaviors in “Muslim” countries that most Americans -- ignorant of Al-Islam -- take to be Sharia Law. Repeatedly, mainstream media reports on “practices” in such countries as Nigeria, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and other Muslim countries -- whose “Laws” DO NOT REPRESENT true Sharia Law -- as sterling examples of Sharia rule. In many of these countries, Sharia is mixed with non-Islamic cultural practices, contrary to the objectives and intentions of the Sharia. Western media has associated Sharia Law with cruelty, backwardness, intolerance, anti modernism and opposed to democratic goals such as life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Our aim is to dispel some of these myths surrounding Sharia Law, and show it in its true light.
Quote:
It is interesting to note that in 1602, after 800 years of Sharia rule and right after the Christians recaptured Spain, one of the great charges the Christians brought against Muslims was that Muslims were too tolerant in religion. The Archbishop of Valencia, in recommending the expulsion of Muslims from Spain stated:

"…that they (the Muslims) highly praised nothing as much as liberty of conscience in all matters of religion, which the Turks, and all other Mohammedans, allow their subjects to enjoy,"
Quote:
Although brought up as a negative charge against Muslims, this was indeed a great compliment paid unwittingly to the Muslims in Spain. It showed the great tolerance in religion that Muslims practiced and at the same time it showed the intolerance of Christians, through the words of the Archbishop, for condemning this aspect of Sharia rule.
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So what is Sharia? Sharia is based on the teachings of the Qur’an and authentic example of Prophet Muhammad (saaw). Sharia covers every aspect of individual and community life for Muslims. The legal aspect of Sharia is very small and within it, the huddud (punishments), are only a small fraction of the complete system of justice – yet this is what most non-Muslims associate with Sharia.

The Qur’an was revealed over a period of 23 years and not one word has been changed from the original revelation. I mentioned authentic above in referring to the recorded example of the Prophet (saaw) -- known as collection of Hadiths -- because there are many that are false reports. Around 250 years after the death of the Prophet (saaw) 17 books on Hadiths were recorded. After many years of scrutiny and verification of facts by Islamic scholars, 10 books were discarded and 7 accepted. The 10 discarded were found to be fabrications and mostly work done by Jews and selfish rulers in the Islamic world who wanted to corrupt Al-Islam for their own gain.

Quote:
Today we have even friends of Muslims, who are critical of Hamas and the type of Islamic government Hamas wants to establish in Palestine, because these friends imagine things about Sharia rule based on media reports, misinformation gathered from ignorant Muslims, their own hatred for religious rule and poor examples of religious rule in history. At the same time they negate the fact that from the seventh century all the way up to 1948, with the Zionist takeover of Palestine, the Muslims, Christians and Jews lived in peace under Sharia law. But to be fair to Al-Islam we need to examine -- both from the teachings of Al-Islam and the example of Muslims in history -- what Sharia rule is really like. Hopefully in doing so we would have a better basis by which to judge Sharia law.

I will first address some common misconceptions about Sharia, but first, I will briefly explain Islamic Federalism. Westerners don’t know about Islamic Federalism. Unlike the one size fits all Federalism of the West, Islamic Federalism gives each state under Muslim rule, the right to rule themselves according to their own laws.

As such, Christians, Jews and other communities living under Sharia Law are free to rule themselves according to their own laws and values. The first written constitution in the world was developed by Muhammad (saaw) in Medina. The restraints of Law on Muslims under Sharia Law, far surpass the restraints of law on any other population, bar none, and those Muslim Laws may not be applied to non-Muslims unless the latter opt for them. A Muslim can neither drink wine nor prohibit a Christian from drinking it in a Christian state ruled under Sharia Law.

To discuss Sharia rule I want to start by addressing some common misconceptions about it. They are as follows:
Quote:

1. Sharia Law enforces amputating the hand for stealing.

This is what is commonly understood by most Westerners about Sharia law. Questions about whether or not Sharia law permits the amputating of someone’s hand as a result of stealing pieces of bread due to hunger, etc. are not even asked or considered. All the average person knows is that Sharia law amputates thieves’ hands. Chapter 5 verses 41 to 43 from the Qur'an upon which this punishment is based are as follows:

As to the thief, male or female, cut off his or her hands: a retribution for their deed and exemplary punishment from Allah and Allah is Exalted in Power, full of Wisdom.

But if the thief repent after his crime, and amend his conduct, Allah turneth to him in forgiveness; for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

Knowest thou not that to Allah (alone) belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth? He punisheth, whom He pleaseth and He forgiveth whom He pleaseth: and Allah hath power over all things.

It is important to understand what Sharia teaches in full regarding stealing. Many will be surprised to know that Sharia law states that if someone is caught stealing -- as a result of hunger, poverty or necessity -- their hand should not be amputated.

Instead, a thorough investigation must be done as to the circumstances of the theft that caused the individual to steal. If it is found that the individual stole as a result of necessity, then instead of amputation, Sharia law dictates that well-to-do members of the community provide support for the individual. The provision of support could be in the form of financial support, employment, education and charity.

The purpose is to prevent the person from becoming destitute and eliminate any reason for him to steal again.

At the same time Sharia Law is firm regarding punishment for those found guilty of stealing as a result of greed and other selfish motives. Sharia enforces justice, with punishment meted out according to the crime. The punishment must also serve as a deterrent to prevent others from committing crimes. It is done publicly for all to witness.

Unlike most western countries where the rights of the criminal is often held higher than the rights of victims, Sharia is very serious about dealing with law breakers who feel that they have a right to commit crimes against innocent people.

It does not glorify criminals; rather it protects the innocent and law abiding against criminals who would harm them. It takes a no nonsense attitude dealing with criminals justly and publicly. As a result of this serious approach towards dealing with crime, Islamic counties today have the lowest crime rates in the world.
Quote:
2. Sharia forces non-Muslims to adopt Muslim behavior in all things
Long before Article 1 of the US Constitution, granting freedom and inalienable rights to life, liberty, possession of property and the pursuit of happiness, the revelation of the Qur’an to Muhammad (saaw) had already granted those rights. These inalienable rights were granted to all, under an Islamic Federalism, whether one was Muslim or not. Examples of a few verses from the Qur'an where these rights are granted are as follows: follows:

Guarantee of freedom of religion in Qur'an:

Quote:
"Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error… [2:256]

"Say (Muhammad it is) truth from the Lord of all. Whosoever will, let him believe, and whosoever will, LET him disbelieve." [18:29]

If it had been thy Lord's will, they would all have believed,- all who are on earth! wilt thou then compel mankind, against their will, to believe![10:99]
Right to the pursuit of happiness and achievement of good in this life:

Quote:

To each is a goal to which Allah turns him; then strive together (as in a race) towards all that is good…[1:148]

"But seek, with the (wealth) which Allah has bestowed on thee, the Home of the Hereafter, nor forget thy portion in this world...[28:77]

For them there is the glad tiding [of happiness] in the life of this world and in the life to come; [and since] nothing could ever alter [the outcome of] Allah's promises, this, this is the triumph supreme![10:64]
Right to both men AND women to possess property

Quote:
From what is left by parents and those nearest related there is a share for men and a share for women, whether the property be small or large,-a determinate share. [4:7]

To (benefit) every one, We have appointed shares and heirs to property left by parents and relatives. To those, also, to whom your right hand was pledged, give their due portion. For truly Allah is witness to all things.[4:33]

O ye who believe! Eat not up your property among yourselves in vanities: But let there be amongst you Traffic and trade by mutual good-will…[4:29]



For the true freedom and liberation of the human being in Al-Islam, the words are stated in the first chapter and the most often repeated prayer of the Muslims:

"Thee Alone do we worship, and Thee Alone do we seek for aid."

Quote:
By giving that type of devotion to the Creator of the heavens and the earth, the Supreme Being, the All Powerful and All Knowing Allah, Al-Islam negates the possibility of anything else in creation being Allahs or forces for the human being to submit to.

More than anything this guarantees for the human being his Allah given right to self rule, freedom from domination by others and recognizes that not other men, but only Allah is who he should submit his whole self to.

With these rights clearly spelled out in the Qur’an, two major guarantees are given to non-Muslims living under Sharia Law. They are:
Quote:
Under Sharia rule, people of other religions have complete freedom to practice their religion, establish their places of worship and their institutions to teach their religion to their children.

Sharia Law goes one step further by allowing non-Muslims to establish their own judicial courts to try their own civil cases, and to render and implement their judgments upon the people of their faith. Note that such permission is not given to the Muslims living in Europe or the Americas, now or earlier in history.
Quote:
This is all part of Islamic Federalism. Besides presenting this as a concept in Al-Islam, I will list a few examples of how Muslims implemented Islamic Federalism in history. Serious students please take note and do Google searches on some of the terms mentioned in the examples to verify truth:

And finally

Quote:

The Golden Age of Judaism was Arab Spain according to Jewish historians. In fact, the years between 900 and 1200 in Spain and North Africa are known as the Hebrew "golden age," a sort of Jewish Renaissance that arose from the fusion of the Arab and Jewish intellectual worlds. Jews watched their Arab counterparts closely and learned to be astronomers, philosophers, scientists, and poets. They were free to grow and thrive amongst Muslims and in their own communities under Sharia rule.

The Silver Age of Judaism was Muslim Persia (modern Iraq and Iran) according to Jewish historians. The Golden and Silver Ages of Judaism were not during the period of Jewish rule in Judea and Samaria nor under the Babylonian rulers nor under the Romans and Greeks nor in Europe under the Catholics. It was under Islamic rule.

There was absolute liberty of conscience for the Christians under Muslim rule in the Middle East; they kept their most important Churches and built new ones; the Church of the Holy Sepulcher in Jerusalem has always been a Christian place of worship, the only thing the Muslims did in the way of interference with the Christian's liberty of conscience in respect of it was to see that every sect of Christians had access to it, and that it was not monopolized by one sect to the exclusion of others. The same is true of the Church of the Nativity of Bethlehem, and of other buildings of special sanctity.

Christian churches, Jewish synagogues and places of worship of other religions are found by the millions throughout Muslim majority countries without interruption and disruption of their business. The Eastern Christians, as British Historian Edward Gibbon showed, preferred Muslim rule, which allowed them to practice their own form of religion and adhere to their peculiar dogmas, to the rule of fellow Christians who would have made them Roman Catholics or wiped them out.

When crusaders conquered Jerusalem they killed almost all Muslims, Jews and a majority of non-Catholic Christians. When Muslims re-conquered the same city after 88 years under the leadership of Sultan Salahuddin Al-Ayyubi all non-Muslims were protected and their places of worship and institutions were also protected. No revenge was taken for what had happened 88 years earlier. Instead, Muslims helped Christians and Jews to rebuild their Synagogues and churches that were destroyed.

Innumerable monasteries, with a wealth of treasure of which the worth has been calculated at not less than a hundred million sterling, enjoyed the benefit of the Holy Prophet's (Muhammad’s) Charter to the monks of Sinai and were religiously respected by the Muslims. The various sects of Christians were represented in the Council of the Empire by their patriarchs, on the provincial and district council by their bishops, in the village council by their priests, whose word was always taken without question on things which were the sole concern of their community.



SOURCE
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Old 29-10-2011, 01:46 AM   #230
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Originally Posted by adbasque View Post
PART ONE

I will post this and then I will quit this Thread, it is irrelevant to me, spend my time chasing after the PTB's propaganda Via his controlled MSM.

And lies spread across the internet with fabricated evidence, such as videos, and articles written by the Hateful websites funded by the extremists and the Zionists.

From this point on, everyone is entitled to their point of view:

More to come:
Please take time to read through, and don't take things out of context
I am making it clear this is the last time I will get involved in any of this:

Guarantee of freedom of religion in Qur'an:


Right to the pursuit of happiness and achievement of good in this life:


Right to both men AND women to possess property

And finally

SOURCE



WHAT UTTER GARBAGE. Seriously.

Quote:
It was not until the Western nations broke away from their religious law that they became more tolerant, and it was only when the Muslims fell away from their religious law that they declined in tolerance
REAL ISLAM DOES NOT TOLERATE ANY RELIGIONS, CHRISTIANS AND JEWS ARE THE ONLY ONES THAT ARE ALLOWED TO PRACTICE THEIR FAITH (DISCRETELY) PROVIDING THAT THEY PAY THE JIZYA HUMILIATION TAX WHICH ALLOWS THEM TO KEEP THEIR HEADS FOR ANOTHER YEAR. FAILURE TO PAY THE JIZYA CAN RESULT IN WHOLE FAMILIES BEING ENSLAVED.


Quote:
"Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error… [2:256]
SO YOU ARE NOW QUOTING ABROGATED (CANCELED) VERSES TO MAKE ISLAM SEEM RESPECTFUL?


And for whatever verse We abrogate or cast into oblivion, We bring a better or the like of it; knowest thou not that Allah is powerful over everything? S. 2:106 Arberry

“[al-Tawbah 9:5] This verse is known as Ayat al-Sayf (the verse of the sword). THESE AND SIMILAR VERSES ABROGATE THE VERSES WHICH SAY THAT THERE IS NO COMPULSION TO BECOME A MUSLIM.http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/34770

Verse 9:5 "Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful."


When speaking in the West, Muslim commentators, deliberately hide this major Islamic doctrine, called in Arabic "Al-Nasikh wal-Mansoukh" (the abrogator and the abrogated). The Arabic etymology of the word is "naskh" means a legal method that allows annulment of certain verses from the Quran.


(RECOMMENDED) THE QURANIC DECEPTION DOCTRINE OF ISLAM - ABBROGATION - WHAT MUSLIMS WONT TELL YOU. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=6Kox5XNuyb8



Quote:
It is important to understand what Sharia teaches in full regarding stealing. Many will be surprised to know that Sharia law states that if someone is caught stealing -- as a result of hunger, poverty or necessity -- their hand should not be amputated.

Can you show us from the hadith a person not having their hand chopped off because of “hunger, poverty or necessity”


“[As for] the thief, the male and the female, amputate their hands in recompense for what they earned [i.e. committed] as a deterrent [punishment] from Allaah. And Allaah is Exalted in Might and Wise.” [Quran 5:38] http://www.islamweb.net/emainpage/in...cles&id=136791

Narrated 'Aisha: The Prophet cut off the hand of a lady, and that lady used to come to me, and I used to convey her message to the Prophet and she repented, and her repentance was sincere. (Book #81, Hadith #792) Bukhari http://www.searchtruth.com/searchHad...rch_word=exact


Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah 's Apostle said, "Allah curses the thief who steals an egg (or a helmet) for which his hand is to be cut off, or steals a rope, for which his hand is to be cut off." Bukhari (Book #81, Hadith #791). http://www.searchtruth.com/searchHad...rch_word=exact

Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar: The Prophet cut off the hand of a thief for stealing a shield that was worth three Dirhams. (Book #81, Hadith #789)



Quote:
Under Sharia rule, people of other religions have complete freedom to practice their religion, establish their places of worship and their institutions to teach their religion to their children.
UTTER GARBAGE.

ARE YOU SAYING THAT UNDER SHARIA LAW PEOPLE CAN PRACTICE RELIGIONS OTHER THEN ISLAM, CHRISTIANITY AND JUDAISM?

THAT’S AN OUTRIGHT LIE. DID MUHUMMAD ALLOW THE PAGANS TO PRACTICE PAGANISM? WHERE ON EARTH ARE YOU GETTING YOUR INFO FROM? I NOTICED THAT YOU DON’T PROVIDE ANY LINKS TO BACK UP YOUR OWN CLAIMS.

This is what happens to even Muslims who are deemed to be polytheists:

Al-Fawzan's best-known textbook, "Al-Tawheed – Monotheism," (taught to Saudi high school students) says most Muslims are polytheists, and THEIR BLOOD AND MONEY ARE THEREFORE FREE FOR THE TAKING BY “TRUE MUSLIMS”. http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=35518


The apostal of allah said: “I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and…. If they do it, their blood and property are protected.'"
http://hadith.al-islam.com/Page.aspx...SubjectID=9927


Just some of MANY koranic verses instructing Muslims to kill unbelievers:

“Wa ‘QATILOO’ fee sabeeli Allahi waiAAlamoo anna Allaha sameeAAun AAaleemun.” 2.224.

“So fight FIGHT TO KILL in Allah’s way, in order to elevate His religion” 2.244, http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?...0&LanguageId=2


O Prophet! Wage jihad against the faithless and the hypocrites, and be severe with them. Their refuge shall be hell, and it is an evil destination. 9.73. Ali Quli Qara'i .

(O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers) with the sword. 9.73. Tafsir Ibn abbas. http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?...0&LanguageId=2

"Fight/kill those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the Religion of truth, from among the People of the Book (CHRISTIANS AND JEWS), until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued" 9:29 ahmed ali.

And fight/kill (Qatiloo) them until (there) be no misguidance/betrayal , and the religion, all of it be to Allah, 8:39 Ahmed Ali


UNDER SHARIA LAW DEATH IS MANDATORY FOR APOSTATES:

and that you do not slay the life which God has made sacred, EXCEPT RIGHTFULLY, AS IN THE CASE OF retaliation, or [as] THE PRESCRIBED PUNISHMENT FOR APOSTASY. Sura 6.151. Tafsir Al Jalalayn. http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?...0&LanguageId=2

Narrated 'Ikrima: Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to 'Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn 'Abbas who said, "If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah's Apostle forbade it, saying, 'Do not punish anybody with Allah's punishment (fire).' I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'" (Sahih Bukhari, Book #84, Hadith #57) http://www.searchtruth.com/searchHad...rch_word=exact

Narrated 'Abdullah: Allah's Apostle said, "The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Apostle, cannot be shed except in three cases: In Qisas for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (apostate) and leaves the Muslims." (Book #83, Hadith #17) http://www.searchtruth.com/searchHad...rch_word=exact

From Abu Shaibani: Almasoor Alajli converted to Christianity after islam so Utabiba bin Abi Waqas sent him to Ali, and called on him to REPENT, and he did not repent, so he killed him, and 30,000 christians asked for his body but ali refused and burned it. (Ibn Hazm in Al-Muhalla, v6, page, #2199)


Quranic Message to the Infidels: Convert to Islam, or pay the Jizya, or you gonna be killed!
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Old 29-10-2011, 01:56 AM   #231
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Originally Posted by adbasque View Post
Wrong, and they can disagree all they want
Talmud was written by the 70 rabbis it has nothing whatsoever to do with Judaism.
The Talmud is Judaism.

From a Jewish website;

Quote:
In addition to the written scriptures we have an "Oral Torah," a tradition explaining what the above scriptures mean and how to interpret them and apply the Laws. Orthodox Jews believe G-d taught the Oral Torah to Moses, and he taught it to others, down to the present day. This tradition was maintained only in oral form until about the 2d century C.E., when the oral law was compiled and written down in a document called the Mishnah. Over the next few centuries, additional commentaries elaborating on the Mishnah were written down in Jerusalem and Babylon. These additional commentaries are known as the Gemara. The Gemara and the Mishnah together are known as the Talmud. This was completed in the 5th century C.E.
http://www.jewfaq.org/torah.htm#Talmud
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Old 29-10-2011, 03:01 AM   #232
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Originally Posted by bendoon View Post
The Talmud is Judaism.

From a Jewish website;



http://www.jewfaq.org/torah.htm#Talmud
Bendoon, I have shown you a real research where the Talmud came from, now you can believe your website, if you like.

If you take time yo read through that source I gave you will see what I mean.
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Old 29-10-2011, 03:54 AM   #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itruth View Post
WHAT UTTER GARBAGE. Seriously.
Yes like your evidence here, "UTTER GARBAGE!" right? This your counter argument?

Quote:
REAL ISLAM DOES NOT TOLERATE ANY RELIGIONS, CHRISTIANS AND JEWS ARE THE ONLY ONES THAT ARE ALLOWED TO PRACTICE THEIR FAITH (DISCRETELY) PROVIDING THAT THEY PAY THE JIZYA HUMILIATION TAX WHICH ALLOWS THEM TO KEEP THEIR HEADS FOR ANOTHER YEAR. FAILURE TO PAY THE JIZYA CAN RESULT IN WHOLE FAMILIES BEING ENSLAVED.
YOUR EVIDENCE?

DO you know what Jizya is? No I guess not, just ranting "REPEATER"



Quote:
SO YOU ARE NOW QUOTING ABROGATED (CANCELED) VERSES TO MAKE ISLAM SEEM RESPECTFUL?
Cancelled? You're really something, Again, YOU EVIDENCE IS?

Quote:
And for whatever verse We abrogate or cast into oblivion, We bring a better or the like of it; knowest thou not that Allah is powerful over everything? S. 2:106 Arberry
Suddenly you know ALLAH?
The verses are not abrogated look them up


Quote:
“[al-Tawbah 9:5] This verse is known as Ayat al-Sayf (the verse of the sword). THESE AND SIMILAR VERSES ABROGATE THE VERSES WHICH SAY THAT THERE IS NO COMPULSION TO BECOME A MUSLIM.http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/34770
AGAIN read it when you finish reading it, read it again, and maybe you'll understand it, if you want to take things out of context as you usually do, go ahead.

Bring your evidence don't just blah blah.

Quote:
Verse 9:5 "Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful."
This is not complete and even just that because it is taken in the middle, keep on playing my dear


Quote:
When speaking in the West, Muslim commentators, deliberately hide this major Islamic doctrine, called in Arabic "Al-Nasikh wal-Mansoukh" (the abrogator and the abrogated). The Arabic etymology of the word is "naskh" means a legal method that allows annulment of certain verses from the Quran.
al naskh is the recording is the writing down, in Arabic keep coming
That is why The Qu'oran is also known as Nuskha "the recorded"
Keep twisting the meanings and keep taking few lines of a verse and take it out of context.

Next please


Quote:
(RECOMMENDED) THE QURANIC DECEPTION DOCTRINE OF ISLAM - ABBROGATION - WHAT MUSLIMS WONT TELL YOU. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=6Kox5XNuyb8
Of course all of these English, Americans who mastered the Arabic language and are Muslims are stupid too, right?
The Converts or the reverts whichever way you want to put it.
You and people like you who know the Qu'oran better than anyone else. right?





Quote:
Can you show us from the hadith a person not having their hand chopped off because of “hunger, poverty or necessity”
Can you show me someone hand chopped off under a true sharia law?
Don't show me from these countries because there's no real sharia law practiced anywhere today because the puppet governments are corrupt by the PTB, No true Muslim government,.

Keep going


Quote:
“[As for] the thief, the male and the female, amputate their hands in recompense for what they earned [i.e. committed] as a deterrent [punishment] from Allaah. And Allaah is Exalted in Might and Wise.” [Quran 5:38] http://www.islamweb.net/emainpage/in...cles&id=136791
You talk about abrogating What's this?
You twist everything don't you, what have you got to gain from doing this?
How can they earn when they steal?
Tell me!

Quote:
Narrated 'Aisha: The Prophet cut off the hand of a lady, and that lady used to come to me, and I used to convey her message to the Prophet and she repented, and her repentance was sincere. (Book #81, Hadith #792) Bukhari http://www.searchtruth.com/searchHad...rch_word=exact
First this a lie up on a lie, who is he?
Anyone can put crap on and say hadith Bukhari, this is hardly a hadith


Quote:
Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah 's Apostle said, "Allah curses the thief who steals an egg (or a helmet) for which his hand is to be cut off, or steals a rope, for which his hand is to be cut off." Bukhari (Book #81, Hadith #791). http://www.searchtruth.com/searchHad...rch_word=exact
Like everything you leave all the essential behind you quote one sentence to make your case, eh? lol Typical
You know well, that is not the truth and never has been
I have posted how it is done, it is the last resort, the hand gets chopped amputated after a thorough investigation to why and how, the person went to steal.

So you prefer the slap on the wrist it is a better system, then crime grows and grows when it gets out of control, you are the first one to whinge and ask for death penalty.

I didn't hear you criticizing the death penalty in the land of the free? I guess that is acceptable is it?

Quote:
Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar: The Prophet cut off the hand of a thief for stealing a shield that was worth three Dirhams. (Book #81, Hadith #789)
Yes of course, and we have the full story here why and how?
Where is the evidence and where is the full story how it happens and why?
Oh no, you dare not look for the real truth, eh? lol You guys make me laugh with your UTTER GARBAGE,

Quote:
UTTER GARBAGE.
so far you're the one with tons of garbage
Quote:
ARE YOU SAYING THAT UNDER SHARIA LAW PEOPLE CAN PRACTICE RELIGIONS OTHER THEN ISLAM, CHRISTIANITY AND JUDAISM?
I am not saying, I am saying go and research it yourself
it's all documented
Not by Muslims, it is documented by NON Muslims, (Who don't lie)

Quote:
THAT’S AN OUTRIGHT LIE. DID MUHUMMAD ALLOW THE PAGANS TO PRACTICE PAGANISM? WHERE ON EARTH ARE YOU GETTING YOUR INFO FROM? I NOTICED THAT YOU DON’T PROVIDE ANY LINKS TO BACK UP YOUR OWN CLAIMS.
Didn't I, if you're blind, I am sorry that's no my fault, but if you looked there was where it says "SOURCE"

Right?

Quote:
This is what happens to even Muslims who are deemed to be polytheists:
You can't be a Muslim and be polytheist you ignorant

Quote:
Al-Fawzan's best-known textbook, "Al-Tawheed – Monotheism," (taught to Saudi high school students) says most Muslims are polytheists, and THEIR BLOOD AND MONEY ARE THEREFORE FREE FOR THE TAKING BY “TRUE MUSLIMS”. http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=35518
Again Muslim means Muslim, there is NO such thing as Polytheism in Islam
and you call yourself and your sources as Authentic, you are fake sorry

Quote:
The apostal of allah said: “I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and…. If they do it, their blood and property are protected.'"
http://hadith.al-islam.com/Page.aspx...SubjectID=9927
Again, during war time, and as usual you take things out of CONTEXT on purpose, you always do people, you know damn well that unless you take things out of context you haven't got a prayer to make one single argument, and you know it .

Quote:
Just some of MANY koranic verses instructing Muslims to kill unbelievers:
DURING WAR TIME, IN SELF DEFENSE


Quote:
“Wa ‘QATILOO’ fee sabeeli Allahi waiAAlamoo anna Allaha sameeAAun AAaleemun.” 2.224.
This is all it says is it? LOL Good God you are unbelievable
You are lying or wherever you're getting all this garbage from is an UTTER RUBBISH
You just proved you are a total ignorant sorry
No Polytheism in Islam not it Christianity, or Judaism

Quote:
“So fight FIGHT TO KILL in Allah’s way, in order to elevate His religion” 2.244, http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?...0&LanguageId=2
No in a war time they will put their hands behind their backs and wait to be slaughtered right? That way you'd be pleased perhaps I am sure even lol

Quote:
O Prophet! Wage jihad against the faithless and the hypocrites, and be severe with them. Their refuge shall be hell, and it is an evil destination. 9.73. Ali Quli Qara'i .
Same thing again as above

Quote:
(O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers) with the sword. 9.73. Tafsir Ibn abbas. http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?...0&LanguageId=2
Yes Ibn Abbas said these two words he made atafsir with two words wow!!
he must be a genius then? lol

Quote:
"Fight/kill those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the Religion of truth, from among the People of the Book (CHRISTIANS AND JEWS), until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued" 9:29 ahmed ali.
At least they are given a chance and a choice, not like the crusaders where they slaughtered men women and children, right?

Quote:
And fight/kill (Qatiloo) them until (there) be no misguidance/betrayal , and the religion, all of it be to Allah, 8:39 Ahmed Ali
Did you not find a hadith or tafsir by James Taylor by any chance?
This is utterly ridiculous.

Qatilou = Fight not kill
learn your arabic, Yes and fight without hatred or revenge, purely to defend yourselves.

Go and find better site of hatred please this one is rubbish



Quote:
UNDER SHARIA LAW DEATH IS MANDATORY FOR APOSTATES:
Only at war time, I wonder what would happen to a deserter during war time for an American or an English soldier? Have checked this before making a monkey out of yourself?
Have you lived in Muslim countries where they killed anyone?
I have, And I have never seen anyone killed because he left Islam lol
As a matter of fact the countries I visited have bars open all over the place
The owners and the customers are all Nationals some aren't Muslims at all
How many countries did you visit?

Quote:
and that you do not slay the life which God has made sacred, EXCEPT RIGHTFULLY, AS IN THE CASE OF retaliation, or [as] THE PRESCRIBED PUNISHMENT FOR APOSTASY. Sura 6.151. Tafsir Al Jalalayn. http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?...0&LanguageId=2
Betrayal is always punishable by DEATH in any society or religion Get your facts straight!!

You have taken from the beginning til the end everything out of context, either you or wherever you're copy pasting this garbage.


Narrated 'Ikrima: Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to 'Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn 'Abbas who said, "If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah's Apostle forbade it, saying, 'Do not punish anybody with Allah's punishment (fire).' I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'" (Sahih Bukhari, Book #84, Hadith #57) http://www.searchtruth.com/searchHad...rch_word=exact

Narrated 'Abdullah: Allah's Apostle said, "The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Apostle, cannot be shed except in three cases: In Qisas for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (apostate) and leaves the Muslims." (Book #83, Hadith #17) http://www.searchtruth.com/searchHad...rch_word=exact

Quote:
From Abu Shaibani: Almasoor Alajli converted to Christianity after islam so Utabiba bin Abi Waqas sent him to Ali, and called on him to REPENT, and he did not repent, so he killed him, and 30,000 christians asked for his body but ali refused and burned it. (Ibn Hazm in Al-Muhalla, v6, page, #2199)
WHo the hell is Abu Shaibani?



Quranic Message to the Infidels: Convert to Islam, or pay the Jizya, or you gonna be killed! [/QUOTE]

This guy is a state so called scholar he works directly for Saudi regime what do you expect?? to give you a true light about Islam?

Listen I am tired of refuting all of this garbage, do your home work, get informed and maybe we can talk and debate otherwise I have nothing to prove to you, you want to accuse bring me some real evidence with real stories and full TAFSIR not few words taken out of context

Now I will ignore all of this bull from now on, you guys are definitely not interested in any truth the only thing that interests you is to smear with anything you have, lies, fabrication, twisting, etc.. Continue.. good luck.

I am OUT
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Old 29-10-2011, 04:05 AM   #234
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Please refrain from posting stuff from "Search truth" website
It has been debunked way back when

It is a hate website they lie through their teeth
It may excite you to find a website like this one, but it is clear

The hint is in the name, if they were telling the truth
They wouldn't have to call it "search the truth" ^^

They want to emphasise that they are NOT lying
It's like the used car salesman who tells you trust me.

I thought you guys were a little more intelligent than falling for these idiotic websites, why don't you search who runs it before you use its information?

Because it suits your purpose or agenda

It's laughable

here is a small list of these websites
They have been reported to be fake

http://www.islamreview.com/
http://www.investigateislam.com/english/
http://rim.org/
http://www.catholicapologetics.info/
http://www.actforamericaeducation.com/
http://www.canadafreepress.com
http://www.carm.org/
http://www.answering-islam.org/
http://www.unashamedofthegospel.org/
http://www.muslimhope.com/
http://www.thespiritofislam.com/
http://www.contenderministries.org/
http://www.religionresearchinstitute.org/
http://www.jihadwatch.org/
http://www.thequran.com/
http://www.atruechurch.info/quran.html
http://www.fatherzakaria.net
http://www.bigpeace.com
http://www.islamlies.com
http://www.kingmessiahproject.com/
http://www.baptistpillar.com
http://www.studytoanswer.net
http://www.truthtube.tv/
http://www.bible.ca/islam/
http://www.prophetofdoom.net/
http://defendchristians.org/
http://www.muhammadtube.com
http://www.christianconcern.com/
http://www.inthenameofallah.org
http://www.answeringchristianity.com/ (A Christian site that's copied the colours, texts and design of the Islamic response site Answering Christianity)

http://www.joelstrumpet.com/
http://www.thestraightway.org
http://www.answeringmuslims.com
http://www.answeringinfidels.com
http://www.aina.org/
http://familybible.org/
http://www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com

Most of them even pretend to be real Islamic websites
You have no idea what the Zionists and the extremists Christians are doing

Enjoy yourselves

An example:

These guys have this on top of their website

To those who profess the 'Religion of Islam', this site will seem offensive, untruthful, hatemongering, one sided and unfair.

And then they start their bullshit with this.

Quote:
Almost all human beings are 'indoctrinated' by their parents, their society and their culture to grow up believing what they have been taught. No human being chooses his or her beliefs at birth. We all, Muhammadans, Moussawis (Jews), Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, Animists,etc. are the end product of our upbringing. None of us ever chose the ideas, beliefs, doctrines and traditions that we hold since we never had any choice in the matter. None of us are 'guilty' of who and what we end up as, whether Muslims, Jews, Christians or otherwise. We are all 'victims' of years of relentless and unremitting 'programming'.
But he only picks on Islam, they want to come across they are being impartial Bullshit
very subtle way, devious way of putting their message across
.

HERE IS THE LINK ITRUTH HERE

Keep reading this crap
From now on I won't be replying, total "IGNORE" tired of all this rubbish.
Too many threads of Islam bashing on this forum
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Old 29-10-2011, 02:50 PM   #235
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Anyone want to know what Islam is really like - you can talk to Europeans: Greeks or Serbs, Romanians, Bulgarians, they suffered under Islam for 500 years - and that is why they hate it so much.
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Old 30-10-2011, 12:00 AM   #236
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Bendoon, I have shown you a real research where the Talmud came from, now you can believe your website, if you like.

If you take time yo read through that source I gave you will see what I mean.
You don't need to do reasearch, Judaism is based on the Talmud, Jews even tell you it is on their own web sites.
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Old 30-10-2011, 12:14 AM   #237
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Originally Posted by bendoon View Post
You don't need to do reasearch, Judaism is based on the Talmud, Jews even tell you it is on their own web sites.
Take a look at this

Click The Link

and take a look at the video, and there are videos like these all around the world, of Jews opposing Zionism.

[media="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12cfVKQyrMw&feature=player_embedded"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12cfVKQyrMw&feature=player_embedded[/media]

And if Judaism is based on the Talmud they won't be opposing Zionism.
Just read through the website what the real Jews say and believe it has nothing with what is known as Judaism.

I have mixed with Jews I have known them, and they all said they totally reject the Talmud and they don't believe in it.

The ones promoting it are not the real Jews, very few believe in the Talmud and that is the problem, you don't know where to draw the line you put everybody in the same basket, and life is not black and white.

Quote:
Karaite Judaism or Karaism (play /ˈkærə.aɪt/ or /ˈkærə.ɪzəm/; Hebrew: יהדות קראית , Modern Yahadut Qara'it Tiberian Qārāʾîm ; meaning "Readers of the Hebrew Scriptures")[1] is a Jewish movement characterized by the recognition of the Tanakh alone as its supreme legal authority in Halakhah, as well as in theology. It is distinct from Rabbinic Judaism, which considers the Oral law, the legal decisions of the Sanhedrin as codified in the Talmud, and subsequent works to be authoritative interpretations of the Torah.

Karaites maintain that all of the divine commandments handed down to Moses by God were recorded in the written Torah, without additional Oral Law or explanation. As a result, Karaite Jews do not accept as binding the written collections of the oral tradition in the Mishnah or Talmud. When interpreting the Tanakh, Karaites strive to adhere to the plain or most obvious meaning ("peshat") of the text; this is not necessarily the literal meaning, but rather the meaning that would have been naturally understood by the ancient Israelites when the books of the Tanakh were first written.

Due to the tremendous changes in Jewish culture and religious practice over the past 4,000 years, the peshat may not be as easily understood as it once was in Biblical Israel, and must now be derived from textual clues such as language, and context. In contrast, Rabbinic Judaism relies on the legal rulings of the Sanhedrin, the highest court in ancient Israel, as they are codified in the Mishnah, Talmud, and other sources, to indicate the authentic meaning of the Torah.[2]

As you can see there's a clear distinction between the two, not all Jews believe the same thing.
They call it Rabbinic Judaism because it was written by the 70 Rabbis (impostors) under the influence of the Babylonians.
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Old 30-10-2011, 12:19 AM   #238
bendoon
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Take a look at this


and take a look at the video, and there are videos like these all around the world, of Jews opposing Zionism.



And if Judaism is based on the Talmud they won't be opposing Zionism.
Just read through the website what the real Jews say and believe it has nothing with what is known as Judaism.

I have mixed with Jews I have known them, and they all said they totally reject the Talmud and they don't believe in it.

The ones promoting it are not the real Jews, very few believe in the Talmud and that is the problem, you don't know where to draw the line you put everybody in the same basket, and life is not black and white.
WTF has Zionism got to do with it, Judaism is Written law (Pentateuch) and the Oral Law (Talmud), thats what it is, if you take the Talmud away it's not Judaism.

Look at Jewish websites.

Quote:
I have mixed with Jews I have known them, and they all said they totally reject the Talmud and they don't believe in it.
Lol, they would say that wouldn't they.

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Old 30-10-2011, 12:24 AM   #239
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Right Adbasque, here is the website for Jews against Zionism.

Quote:
First let me explain the relationship of the Torah and the Talmud, so you understand that they are both equally revered by all Orthodox Jews without exception. When G-d gave us the Torah, He also gave us an explanation of its laws, to be transmitted orally from generation to generation. For example, the Torah prohibits work on the Sabbath, but does not say exactly what "work" means. G-d explained to Moses orally that it means carrying objects in the street, lighting fires, tying knots, slaughtering animals and so on. The Torah says to take the fruit of the goodly trees on Succoth, but does not say which fruit. Oral tradition explains that it is the ethrog or citron. If you think about it, most of the laws in the Torah are impossible to observe without more explanation.

----snip----


I hope this information answers your questions.

Jacob Dershowitz at Jews Against Zionism
http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/ab...fm?ItemNo=1052

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Old 30-10-2011, 01:38 AM   #240
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Yes like your evidence here, "UTTER GARBAGE!" right? This your counter argument?



YOUR EVIDENCE?

DO you know what Jizya is? No I guess not, just ranting "REPEATER"





Cancelled? You're really something, Again, YOU EVIDENCE IS?



Suddenly you know ALLAH?
The verses are not abrogated look them up




AGAIN read it when you finish reading it, read it again, and maybe you'll understand it, if you want to take things out of context as you usually do, go ahead.

Bring your evidence don't just blah blah.



This is not complete and even just that because it is taken in the middle, keep on playing my dear




al naskh is the recording is the writing down, in Arabic keep coming
That is why The Qu'oran is also known as Nuskha "the recorded"
Keep twisting the meanings and keep taking few lines of a verse and take it out of context.

Next please




Of course all of these English, Americans who mastered the Arabic language and are Muslims are stupid too, right?
The Converts or the reverts whichever way you want to put it.
You and people like you who know the Qu'oran better than anyone else. right?







Can you show me someone hand chopped off under a true sharia law?
Don't show me from these countries because there's no real sharia law practiced anywhere today because the puppet governments are corrupt by the PTB, No true Muslim government,.

Keep going




You talk about abrogating What's this?
You twist everything don't you, what have you got to gain from doing this?
How can they earn when they steal?
Tell me!



First this a lie up on a lie, who is he?
Anyone can put crap on and say hadith Bukhari, this is hardly a hadith




Like everything you leave all the essential behind you quote one sentence to make your case, eh? lol Typical
You know well, that is not the truth and never has been
I have posted how it is done, it is the last resort, the hand gets chopped amputated after a thorough investigation to why and how, the person went to steal.

So you prefer the slap on the wrist it is a better system, then crime grows and grows when it gets out of control, you are the first one to whinge and ask for death penalty.

I didn't hear you criticizing the death penalty in the land of the free? I guess that is acceptable is it?



Yes of course, and we have the full story here why and how?
Where is the evidence and where is the full story how it happens and why?
Oh no, you dare not look for the real truth, eh? lol You guys make me laugh with your UTTER GARBAGE,



so far you're the one with tons of garbage

I am not saying, I am saying go and research it yourself
it's all documented
Not by Muslims, it is documented by NON Muslims, (Who don't lie)



Didn't I, if you're blind, I am sorry that's no my fault, but if you looked there was where it says "SOURCE"

Right?



You can't be a Muslim and be polytheist you ignorant



Again Muslim means Muslim, there is NO such thing as Polytheism in Islam
and you call yourself and your sources as Authentic, you are fake sorry



Again, during war time, and as usual you take things out of CONTEXT on purpose, you always do people, you know damn well that unless you take things out of context you haven't got a prayer to make one single argument, and you know it .


DURING WAR TIME, IN SELF DEFENSE




This is all it says is it? LOL Good God you are unbelievable
You are lying or wherever you're getting all this garbage from is an UTTER RUBBISH
You just proved you are a total ignorant sorry
No Polytheism in Islam not it Christianity, or Judaism



No in a war time they will put their hands behind their backs and wait to be slaughtered right? That way you'd be pleased perhaps I am sure even lol


Same thing again as above



Yes Ibn Abbas said these two words he made atafsir with two words wow!!
he must be a genius then? lol



At least they are given a chance and a choice, not like the crusaders where they slaughtered men women and children, right?



Did you not find a hadith or tafsir by James Taylor by any chance?
This is utterly ridiculous.

Qatilou = Fight not kill
learn your arabic, Yes and fight without hatred or revenge, purely to defend yourselves.

Go and find better site of hatred please this one is rubbish





Only at war time, I wonder what would happen to a deserter during war time for an American or an English soldier? Have checked this before making a monkey out of yourself?
Have you lived in Muslim countries where they killed anyone?
I have, And I have never seen anyone killed because he left Islam lol
As a matter of fact the countries I visited have bars open all over the place
The owners and the customers are all Nationals some aren't Muslims at all
How many countries did you visit?


Betrayal is always punishable by DEATH in any society or religion Get your facts straight!!

You have taken from the beginning til the end everything out of context, either you or wherever you're copy pasting this garbage.


Narrated 'Ikrima: Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to 'Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn 'Abbas who said, "If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah's Apostle forbade it, saying, 'Do not punish anybody with Allah's punishment (fire).' I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'" (Sahih Bukhari, Book #84, Hadith #57) http://www.searchtruth.com/searchHad...rch_word=exact

Narrated 'Abdullah: Allah's Apostle said, "The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Apostle, cannot be shed except in three cases: In Qisas for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (apostate) and leaves the Muslims." (Book #83, Hadith #17) http://www.searchtruth.com/searchHad...rch_word=exact



WHo the hell is Abu Shaibani?



Quranic Message to the Infidels: Convert to Islam, or pay the Jizya, or you gonna be killed! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGRTDt5w-dM
This guy is a state so called scholar he works directly for Saudi regime what do you expect?? to give you a true light about Islam?

Listen I am tired of refuting all of this garbage, do your home work, get informed and maybe we can talk and debate otherwise I have nothing to prove to you, you want to accuse bring me some real evidence with real stories and full TAFSIR not few words taken out of context

Now I will ignore all of this bull from now on, you guys are definitely not interested in any truth the only thing that interests you is to smear with anything you have, lies, fabrication, twisting, etc.. Continue.. good luck.

I am OUT[/QUOTE]

Quote:

As-salam ‘alaykum,



Dear Dr. Shafaat,



I visited your site. There is a lot of valuable information available in your site. I have many queries regarding Islam that trouble my mind. I would be much grateful to you if you could answer those queries. To start with, I have much trouble understanding the punishment of apostasy. Do you believe that the punishment of apostasy is death according to Islam? Is this not against the freedom for an individual to adopt any faith? Please explain.

Thanks.

Regards,
Mohd.
Bit by bit but try and read it all the way, take your time and you will see for yourself it is not true:

Quote:
Answer



Wa 'alaykum al-salam! Thank you for your email. The fact that you have many queries suggests that you think and reflect about Islamic teachings. This is wonderful, since the Book of God instructs us to do such thinking and reflection. I would insha` allah answer your questions according to the ability God grants me.



The question you have raised about the punishment of apostasy in Islam, like any other question related to Islam, needs to be answered in the light of the Qur`an and the authentic ahadith. I repeat this well-known principle here because many Muslims, even scholars are often influenced by some extraneous considerations in arriving at their Islamic opinions. Thus some reject the death penalty for apostasy out of a desire to “improve” the image of Islam among non-Muslims.

Others, on the other hand, insist on that penalty out of a concern that rejection of the penalty will encourage apostasy. There are also some who are influenced by a tendency to stick to traditional views no matter what.

At some point the death penalty for apostasy was widely accepted among Muslims and many of us feel that what our earlier generations accepted must be correct and must be accepted by us also. Since such extraneous influences can mislead us, let us first try to free our minds from them.



The desire to “improve” the image of Islam among non-Muslims



Most of the negative imaging of Islam is done by a relatively small minority of Christians and Jews and those writers and reporters who are under their power. These people are not going to simply stop if we rejected the death penalty for apostasy.

They will just find something else to paint Islam negatively.
The only way they can stop is if the challenge of Islam is removed and Muslims start behaving like them. The Holy Qur`an talks about such Jews and Christians when it says:

Neither the Jews nor the Christians will be pleased with you (O Muhammad) till you follow their millah. Say: “Surely, the guidance of God is the (true) guidance”. And if you were to follow their desires after what has come to you of knowledge, then you would not have any protector or helper against God. (2:120)

Quote:
Here by “Jews and Christians” the Holy Qur`an does not mean “all Jews and Christians”, since elsewhere it says “they are not all alike” (3:113). What is meant in the above verse is that some or many Jews and Christians will not be pleased with you till you become like them. It is also relevant to note that the Holy Qur`an tells us that we should expect a lot of negative, hurtful, talk from some Jews, Christians, and other non-Muslims:

You shall certainly be tried and tested in your possessions and persons and you shall certainly hear from the people given the book before you and those who associate partners with God much grieving talk. But if you are steadfast and disciplined, then that is of the (required) resolve in affairs. (3:186)

Consequently, let us not even think about rejecting or accepting something as Islamic only in order to “improve” the image of Islam among non-Muslims. Islam as taught by God and the Messenger is beautiful and the best way to improve the image of Islam is to understand it properly and then represent it faithfully.



Concern that doing away with the death penalty may encourage apostasy


Again

Quote:
This attitude views rejection of the death penalty for apostasy as being soft on apostasy. But it misses the point that God, who knows everything in the heavens and the earth, and his Messenger who is guided by him, know the best way to protect Islam and Muslims. In the Holy Qur`an God tells the Prophet to say:

“Do you inform God of that which he knows not in the heavens and the earth?” (10:18; see also 13:22).

In their context these words are addressed to the non-believers who worship some beings other than God in the hope that they will act as intercessors before God. But the words are clearly applicable each time we try to ignore what God has sent down and start making Islamic rules on the basis of some other considerations, even if it be for the “good” of Islam and Muslims.



But is the death penalty for apostasy really “good” for Islam and Muslims? Does it prevent apostasy? The death penalty may indeed discourage some from apostasy, but it would also encourage hypocrisy. And is it really better to have a lot of hypocrites among Muslims than to have a lot of apostates?



Muslims generally do not leave their religion. In recent times the number of Muslims converting to Christianity has increased but that is because: a) Christians have power and wealth which they use in very aggressive missionary effort; b) Muslims have fallen into ignorance and poverty due to the ineffective leadership of our `umara` and ‘ulama`. Consequently, the best way to reduce apostasy is to increase knowledge of Islam and to combat poverty, ignorance and other problems that plague the Muslim world.
Continues
Quote:
Tendency to stick to the traditional views

If some Muslims insist on the death penalty for apostasy out of a concern to discourage apostasy, others do so simply because of a tendency to cling to traditional views no matter how much evidence exists against them. This attitude is un-Qur`an since the Book of God says:

When it is said to them: “Follow what God has sent down,” they say, “Nay! We shall follow what we found our fathers following.” What! Even if their fathers did not understand (ya‘qilun) anything and they were not guided? (2:170)

And when it is said to them: “Come to what God has sent down and to the Messenger,” they say, “Enough for us is that which we found our fathers following.” What! Even if their fathers did not know anything and they were not guided? (5:104; see also 43:23-24)

The tendency to follow without thinking the ideas passed on by earlier generations is what misled many Jews and Christians, as we learn from the following verse:

Say (O Prophet): “O people of the book! Exceed not the limits in your religion ignoring the truth, and do not follow the vain desires of people who went astray before and who misled many, straying from right path. (5:77)

It is true that these verses are addressed to non-Muslims, but there is no reason to think that the attitude condemned here cannot be found among Muslims. Every error that was or is committed by non-Muslims can be and is committed by some Muslims also and therefore what the Qur`an says to non-Muslims also has a message for us.
Quote:
Hence let us not be overly influenced by the fact that the death penalty for apostasy has been held to be Islamic by a majority of people in many previous generations of Muslims. Let us examine the evidence of the Qur`an and the authentic ahadith and then reach a decision. Some will say that the previous generations of Muslims also reached their decisions on the basis of the Qur`an and the authentic ahadith. This is true but if this means that the majority in previous generations could not be wrong, then that is precisely the sort of attitude that the Qur`an is condemning in the above verses.



If we turn to the Qur`an and authentic ahadith after freeing ourselves from the extraneous influences of the type I have mentioned above, the situation becomes crystal clear: there is no legal punishment for apostasy in Islam, whether death or any other.

The Qur`an and authentic ahadith teach us to treat apostates like other kuffar, whose treatment varies from kindness to killing depending on the circumstances and on the degree of hostility they show towards Islam and Muslims. I will insha allah present evidence for this view in two parts.


In this first part, I will insha allah show that the death penalty or any other legal punishment for apostasy is contrary to the Qur`an. And in the second part I examine the ahadith about apostasy and show with God’s permission that those ahadith that prescribe the death penalty do not come from the mouth of our and God’s beloved Prophet (may God bless and honor him evermore).
Continues
Quote:

WHAT IS APOSTASY?



Before discussing the question of punishment of apostasy, it is well to define what apostasy is.



A person commits apostasy (irtidad) or becomes an apostate (murtadd) if he describes himself a Muslim and then at a later time takes one of the following actions in a public way:



1) Converts to another religion, e.g. becomes a Christian or Buddhist or Baha`i etc.

2) Rejects a part of the Qur`an after recognizing it to be a part of the Qur`an. For example, all those “Muslims” who opposed the Shari‘ah-based arbitration in family and business disputes in Ontario[1] have become apostates if they knew well that a great part of the Shari‘ah that they opposed is based on the Qur`an. May Allah guide them back to Islam.

3) In some cases when the whole ummah agrees that a certain interpretation of some Qur`anic verses or ahadith is unacceptable, then the person who holds such an interpretation may become an apostate by a decision of the ummah.

For example, Ahmadis insist on being called Muslims and they indeed profess and practice much of Islam like most Sunni Muslims. But they believe that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of Qadiyan in the British colonial India was a prophet and in order to prepare room for this belief they interpret khatm nubuwwah in a way different from the rest of the ummah..


The ummah has rejected their interpretation of khatm nubuwwah and Mirza’s claims for which this interpretation is devised. The ummah has also declared this group as non-Muslims and banned their entry into Makkah. Finally, the falsehood of Mirza’s claims has been proved by history[2]. Consequently, all converts from Islam to Ahmadism are apostates.

Normally, however, having an interpretation of a part of the Qur`an or Hadith different from the one held by other Muslims does not result in apostasy. For example, if the people who rejected Shari‘ah-based arbitration in Ontario would have said that the way rules of Shari‘ah are interpreted and applied is not faithful to the teachings of God and his Messenger and argued for more discussion about correcting the interpretation and the application before adopting Shari‘ah-based arbitration, they would not have committed apostasy. But they opposed Shari‘ah as such and for this reason they should be considered apostates.



An apostate is different from a hypocrite (munafiq). A hypocrite is a person who is outwardly willing to say/do what a Muslim says/does but in his heart has decided not to believe in Islam. An apostate, in contrast, is someone who openly and knowingly does or says something that makes him a non-Muslim after he had called himself a Muslim.
Quote:

It also needs to be pointed out that we should distinguish apostasy from a state of kufr that many Muslims may privately pass through during the process of their growth towards the state of iman. In most Muslim families we have some members who express disbelief about the existence of God or about divine revelations or about the hereafter.

Muslims have wisely and correctly tolerated such disbelief because they recognize that the way to iman is not always smooth and may pass through doubts and confusion (cf. Qur`an 6:76-79, 93:7). However, if a Muslim expresses his disbelief in the form of a declared position and insists on its truth publicly, then he will be considered an apostate.
Continues
Quote:
THE ABSENCE FROM THE QUR`AN OF ANY PENALTY FOR APOSTASY



It is a significant fact that the Book of God does not prescribe any punishment for apostasy. Many Muslims would immediately say, The Qur`an does not tell us everything. We need to go to the Hadith to find guidance on matters not touched by the Qur`an. But while this is true of matters of detail, this is not true of fundamental issues.

God knew that while the Qur`an would be preserved faithfully, the authenticity of ahadith will remain subject to doubts in most cases. Therefore, he would make sure that all the basic teachings would be included in the Qur`an while leaving some details to ahadith so that the size of the Qur`anic text remains manageable for memorization. Looked in this way the absence in the Qur`an of any punishment for apostasy becomes very significant.

Quote:

The punishment for apostasy is not a detail that we can expect God to leave for ahadith, especially if that punishment is death, since taking the life of a person, if done without a just cause, is regarded by the Qur`an as tantamount to killing all human beings (5:32).

Even lesser penalties for theft (cutting of hands, 5:38), illicit sexual intercourse (100 lashes, 24:2), and unsubstantiated accusation of adultery (80 lashes, 24.4) were not considered by God as matters of details to be left to the ahadith. Therefore there is no reason why God would consider the more serious penalty of death for a more serious sin of apostasy as a matter of detail to be left to ahadith.
When I tell you, that lies have been fabricated, here is your evidence
look it up, don't take my word or anybody else's

Quote:
It is also significant that the Qur`an refers to apostasy several times (2:217, 3:86-90, 4:137, 9:66, 9:74, 16:106-109, 4:88-91, 47:25-27) and yet does not prescribe any punishment for it. Had the Qur`an not mentioned apostasy at all, we could have perhaps argued that there was no occasion for the Qur`anic revelation to deal with this subject and it was therefore left for the Holy Prophet to deal with.

It may also be noted that almost all the verses that refer to apostasy are found in surahs said to be belonging to the Madinan period when the Islamic state had been established and penalties for crimes could be prescribed and applied. Only 16:106-109 appears in a surah identified as Makkan.
Meaning nowhere to be found in the Qu'oran nowhere he even implied for their punishment, I wasn't going to reply because I am really tired, but I said I will do it this one last time to prove that either you're lying or you're completely mislead.

Quote:
It is thus a natural conclusion to draw that the absence of any legal penalty for apostasy in the Qur`an means that God never intended any such penalty to become part of Islamic Shari‘ah.

It goes even further

Quote:
THE DEATH PENALTY FOR APOSTASY CONFLICTS WITH THE QUR`AN

The evidence against any legally prescribed penalty for apostasy in Islam does not rest only on the fact that the Qur`an does not prescribe any such penalty while referring to the subject of apostasy many times. We can go further and state that:



a) There is no mandatory death penalty in the Qur`an for any crime.



b) The death penalty for apostasy in fact conflicts with the Qur`an.

The truth of the above statements can be seen by examining the verses: 5:32-33, 45, 2:178 and 4:88-91.

Continues


Quote:
Qur`an 5:32-33, 45, 2:178



In 5:32, after relating the story of the murder of Habil by his brother Qabil, God says:

On that account We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole humanity: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the whole humanity. Then although there came to them Our Messengers with clear (guidance), yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land. (5:32)

In the context of an emphasis on preserving the life of each and every individual the above verse mentions only two crimes for which a person can be killed:



1) Murdering another human being;

2) Spreading mischief (fasad) in the land.




Nowhere else the Qur`an mentions any other crime for which the death penalty is considered. There are, of course, verses that mention killing during a war in the way of God. But that is different from killing as a penalty for a crime. Moreover, in the Qur`anic understanding the objective of even killing in a war is to stop or punish crimes similar to the two mentioned in the above verse -- violence and mischief -- when committed in an organized way by a tribe or nation ((2:191-193, 2:217, 4:88-91 etc))
I can hear you whinging about this next one bellow, just think what the PTB and the Zionists are doing, do you think they deserve to be killed?
If you think no, then something is definitely wrong with you.
Just think how many lives they have destroyed before making any comments.
That's the sort of people he is talking about. real mischief.
Quote:
Hence the above-mentioned two crimes exhaust all possible cases for which the Qur`an considers the death penalty[3]. And in both of these cases, the death penalty is not mandatory in the Qur`an.



In case of spreading mischief in the land, the Qur`an says in the next verse:

The recompense for those who wage war against God and his Messenger[4], and strive with might and main for mischief through the land[5] is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land. That is their disgrace in this world, and for them in the hereafter is a severe punishment. (5:33)

Continues

Quote:

There is no prescribed mandatory death penalty here. Even when the person wages war against God and his Messenger along with striving in the land for mischief, death is considered only one of several options, starting from exile. If such is the case with persons who wage war against God and his Messenger and actively seek to spread mischief in the land, then the question of death as a prescribed penalty for an apostate who continues to lead a peaceful life after his sin of apostasy can hardly arise within a Qur`anic perspective.

A little later in the same surah, al-Ma`idah, the Qur`an deals with the other crime – murdering another human being -- for which death penalty can be applied:

And We ordained for them in [the Torah]: “Person for person, eye for eye, nose for nose, ear for ear, tooth for tooth, and wounds equal for equal.” But if anyone remits the retaliation as charity, it shall be an expiation for him. And whoever does not judge by what God has sent down, such are the transgressors



I will stop here, I will give you the link if you want to learn more

SOURCE HERE

You made an arbitrary lie about me, saying that I never provide links.

Take a look at the link above

He is not making it from his head, he is talking about what is in the Qu'ran and what some ignorants on both sides Muslims and non-Muslims consider as to be true.

And I will not provide anymore proof or evidence about anything related to religion, I am not here to discuss religion.

If I wanted to discuss religion, I'd be somewhere else on another forum that specialises in Religion.

From now on I will ignore any attack or unfounded arguments, simply because as stated in that article no matter how many times we debunk or refute these lies you will keep coming back, simply because you don't take No for an answer, we provide you with evidence regarding many lies that have been fabricated over the years and still are being fabricated.

Verses twisted and taken deliberately out of context to spread their pathetic lies and most people simply go and copy paste the shite without even checking its authenticity or the sources they are pasting from.

We find ourselves going around in circles, and to be honest I have far better things to do than wasting my time refuting lies.

Enjoy your reading
Sign off.
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