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Old 28-07-2010, 11:14 AM   #1
rreeve
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Default Kids with NO BIRTH CERTIFICATE

In todays DI latest Headlines theres an article called:

'If You Don't Register Your Children (Contract Them as Assets of the State Corporation) Social Services Cannot Take Them Away'
SOURCE >>




This letter is fantastic because it confirms a way to stop them. However, will it stop them? We've all heard the state have been claiming kids before they're even born so if people decide to take this 'no birth certificate' seriously, I guess they ALSO have to refuse to sign ANY paperwork in the hospital after giving birth because maybe this will help to stop them too.

In regards to not registering a birth, i've been hearing this from TPUC.org and other freeman sites for a while now and I want to know what would happen if I had a child and didn't register him/her?

I personally think this is the ONLY sane thing to do in a society thats stealing our kids and I will be seriously considering this if I have anymore children.

Does anyone know someone who hasn't registered their kids? If so, has the authority's tried to force you to do it? or are they taking any action against you?

As I said this makes so much sense to me but are we condemning our children if we refuse to register them?

They will have no national insurance number so this could effect their employment also I'm pretty sure they won't be allowed to go to school if they're not registered. These are not necessarily bad things, in fact they're actually good things but I just can't see TPTB standing back and letting someone do this.

This is an important topic and I'd like to hear people's thought's on it and solutions to problems that could arise if we don't register our children.

IMPORTANT: If you haven't registered your own child please don't say so here just incase someone unfriendly is reading this. Just talk about 'someone you know' if you catch my drift.




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Old 28-07-2010, 11:32 AM   #2
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I'm interested to see where this goes

A good few years ago I became good friends with a 'traveller' family (apologies if that is not the correct 'term')

None of their family had their births 'registered' but their daughter attended my son's school for two month blocks over numerous occassions when they were in the area.

We did talk about the birth certificate thing but I hadn't heard of the freeman approach at the time so will ask more specific questions next time I see them.

It does suggest to me though that education and medical care (they also used my local GP for their daughters asthema inhaler) are still available despite not being 'birth certificate' registered.

I'm interested to learn more about this too
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Old 28-07-2010, 12:03 PM   #3
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Interesting.
It would be good to see if withdrawing your childs right to a birth certificate would stop you from being entitled to healthcare / schools / benefits and what effect this could have on employment and ID concerns.
The freeman concept also holds the notion that the birth certificate holds a bond account and the development of a legal fictional person, although evidence for the bond has never been revealed that I am aware of.
It would be interesting to see also if this would void any obligation to be ruled by statutory legislations.
Travelling families have avoided this of course, and many do not bother with road tax and the like - their mass movement often too much for the police and they are well known for knowing their inalienable and common law rights.
What should be remembered though, as much as most people here despise the system, some of it is actually there to protect us.
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Old 28-07-2010, 01:40 PM   #4
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In Ireland if you dont register your child the registrar has the authority to register the child.

Quote:
Section 6. Time period within which a birth should be registered and late registration of a birth:
Quote:

A birth should be registered within three months of the date of birth. If the birth has not been registered at the end of this three month period and all efforts to contact the parent(s) have failed, the birth will be registered by one or other Qualified Informants referred to in section 3 above. A registrar has the authority to require a Qualified Informant to comply with the registration procedures. The written consent of a Superintendent Registrar is required if a birth is not registered within 12 months (“late registration”) and contemporary documentary evidence may be required to support the application to have such a birth registered.
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Old 28-07-2010, 04:34 PM   #5
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They have the authority but not the right and no signature!
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Old 28-07-2010, 05:11 PM   #6
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I hear you dolores. It is a 'legal' requirement.

They would not have a signature, but what do you do??? If I didnt want to register my child they still have the power to do it for you...The record is there and the childs birth is registered.. ... .You could of course take the freeman route but thats a long long long long road and I for one have not even started that journey yet!!!

I have been looking in to not registering the birth a bit but they dont make it easy for you. There is no information on it really except that you can not get a passport and you would probably have a problem enrolling your child in a school.

It does not say anywhere that I can find in the Civil Reg Act they have the right register the child if you dont consent to it, it just says if the parents are dead, ill or cant be found.. It would be interesting to know if anyone has not registered their child, I am sure there is someone out there.. ..

And, for the every day person, they wave the lovely child benefit book at ya which of course you need a birth cert to get!
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Old 28-07-2010, 05:26 PM   #7
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unregistered children can still be taken by council

Mon Jul 26, 2010 3:38 pm
Here's a reply to an FOI request saying the council can take children from parents who are either registered or not reistered. I wonder if anyone has any information to put forward to reply back that suggests otherwise???

Note - After initial repsonse saying it makes no difference whether the child is regisstered, I mentioned another FOI request response from torbay council (on front page of http://www.tpuc.org/content/interest...ion-questions-) and they said it was wrong and go this back:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have checked with the appropriate department (legal) who provided the
response. They have responded to say:

" I am afraid Torbay have given a careless and legally incorrect answer.
You can confirm:

Your request has been considered by the Managing Principal Lawyer with
responsibility for child protection matters. She confirms that the
implementation of the relevant sections of the Children Act are in no
way conditional upon the child's birth being registered or otherwise,
they are only conditional on evidence of actual significant harm or risk
of significant harm being suffered by the child as described in the Act.
The local authority can therefore lawfully remove children from the care
of their parents in the circumstances prescribed by the Children Act
1989, and where an act is lawful it cannot constitute kidnap."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

A link to the Children Act 1989
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1989/uk ... 90041_en_1


I got very excited when i read the letter on the front page of the TPUC site.
Soon got deflated when i read this post,i have removed the posters name.

Seems to me were back to the drawing board or someone at torbay council doe'snt know the law,either way it's frightening,but thats the idea is'nt it,to keep us confused and scared.
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Old 28-07-2010, 05:36 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by comma berenices View Post
I got very excited when i read the letter on the front page of the TPUC site.
Soon got deflated when i read this post,i have removed the posters name.

Seems to me were back to the drawing board or someone at torbay council doe'snt know the law,either way it's frightening,but thats the idea is'nt it,to keep us confused and scared.
or the second piece of advice is wrong, and they don't know the law / are lying.

I guess the only way you'd really know is to test it out - or ask some travellers who have not registered their kids.

I've often thought that a good chat to some travellers would be VERY beinifial as they have real world experience of all this stuff.
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Old 28-07-2010, 08:10 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by britishnick View Post
or the second piece of advice is wrong, and they don't know the law / are lying.

I guess the only way you'd really know is to test it out - or ask some travellers who have not registered their kids.

I've often thought that a good chat to some travellers would be VERY beinifial as they have real world experience of all this stuff.

I have the feeling they are lying,they would'nt want this getting out to the masses.

It's time for us to investigate our own councils on this one.

The travellers would be a good start,Iv'e always admired their way of life.
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Old 28-07-2010, 08:32 PM   #10
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Smile Solution

Difficult decision - my partner and I are going through the same as we are expecting a child

My solution would be this - Register and sign the registration under protest and duress - that way it can be revoked at a later date - either by the parents or the child

A contract signed under duress can not be legally binding

Still allows the 'person' to exist and operate within the system - but also allows for a get out clause if required

As Mr Menard says - the person is like a jacket and should be used when its cold - but you should take it off when it starts getting too hot
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Old 28-07-2010, 08:44 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by entheogen View Post
Difficult decision - my partner and I are going through the same as we are expecting a child

My solution would be this - Register and sign the registration under protest and duress - that way it can be revoked at a later date - either by the parents or the child

A contract signed under duress can not be legally binding

Still allows the 'person' to exist and operate within the system - but also allows for a get out clause if required

As Mr Menard says - the person is like a jacket and should be used when its cold - but you should take it off when it starts getting too hot
+1
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Old 29-07-2010, 06:08 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by entheogen View Post
As Mr Menard says - the person is like a jacket and should be used when its cold - but you should take it off when it starts getting too hot
I'm still not 100% sure I follow the best way to do this, in practice. Any tips?
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Old 29-07-2010, 06:38 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by entheogen View Post
Difficult decision - my partner and I are going through the same as we are expecting a child

My solution would be this - Register and sign the registration under protest and duress - that way it can be revoked at a later date - either by the parents or the child

A contract signed under duress can not be legally binding

Still allows the 'person' to exist and operate within the system - but also allows for a get out clause if required

As Mr Menard says - the person is like a jacket and should be used when its cold - but you should take it off when it starts getting too hot
Genius!!
If I were you, I'd spend a few quid and run it by a lawyer. Just to be 100% sure. See how hard it would be to shrug it off at a later date. If you are right, that is probably the best answer.
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Old 29-07-2010, 07:59 PM   #14
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There is no get out clause in any of this you do know this don't you, or is there, you are born a tax payer in their eyes certificate or not, if you refuse to pay any taxes they will first take everything you have ever worked for regardless of when it was purchased, sell it in auction for 10% of its value and then come back for your sockets.

And then jail you if it pleases their contractors and as the prison service is also a money making business now in privately owned vested hands they are making good money from you by being in jail job sorted in their eyes.

So why you might ask are the majority still buying into the vested interested camps, these people are going to try and take everything you have before you and the makers in another prison die a day before you get the goods, people really have to learn the hard way don't they, myself included over the years, no shame there, time to sew a few different seed I think.

Everything we do to one another will eventually come back and cost us dearly in more ways than you can imagine, so the only way out is to do as much as you can by your own hands for yourself not anyone elses, then they have less of a hold on what you can do, those that can't will remain in the prison planet with all ad-onns included.

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Old 29-07-2010, 08:21 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by entheogen View Post
Difficult decision - my partner and I are going through the same as we are expecting a child

My solution would be this - Register and sign the registration under protest and duress - that way it can be revoked at a later date - either by the parents or the child

A contract signed under duress can not be legally binding

Still allows the 'person' to exist and operate within the system - but also allows for a get out clause if required

As Mr Menard says - the person is like a jacket and should be used when its cold - but you should take it off when it starts getting too hot
Registry is not a contract it is a stipulation plain and simple, they are not asking anyone to register your child they are telling you to do it so we are not under any confusement as to what is required.

It simply will not work, they now have new laws 4000 odd of them coming through as we speak to counteract the out of date ones that we the people have been quietly complaining about when it suited us.

It has been common law for many decades that you must register every new born plain and simple, there is nothing factored in for duress against an allotted rulling, it cannot yet be questioned, you cannot change it unless you are them, no one board will be able to do this on their own.

We must change they way we act against others regardless of where abouts we live in the world, only then will we make the changes that we want to see, and seeing that most won't see this as being any good nothing will change for the whole shamefull neglect of our brothers and sisters in the same troubles.

We are the world, they are our children, we would make the world a much better place if we never walked on them, as we are we are a voice in the wilderness looking for sustience from another poor helpless band of brothers.

A rabid dog never chooses who it is going to bite, it will as all government bite off both hands that feed it, every time it can.

Last edited by the apprentice; 29-07-2010 at 08:30 PM.
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Old 30-07-2010, 11:20 AM   #16
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Quote:
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Registry is not a contract it is a stipulation plain and simple, they are not asking anyone to register your child they are telling you to do it so we are not under any confusement as to what is required.

It simply will not work, they now have new laws 4000 odd of them coming through as we speak to counteract the out of date ones that we the people have been quietly complaining about when it suited us.

It has been common law for many decades that you must register every new born plain and simple, there is nothing factored in for duress against an allotted rulling, it cannot yet be questioned, you cannot change it unless you are them, no one board will be able to do this on their own.

We must change they way we act against others regardless of where abouts we live in the world, only then will we make the changes that we want to see, and seeing that most won't see this as being any good nothing will change for the whole shamefull neglect of our brothers and sisters in the same troubles.

We are the world, they are our children, we would make the world a much better place if we never walked on them, as we are we are a voice in the wilderness looking for sustience from another poor helpless band of brothers.

A rabid dog never chooses who it is going to bite, it will as all government bite off both hands that feed it, every time it can.
OK - Im sonna go out on a limb here by saying that your last 2 posts have been nothing more that a deliberate attempt to throw people off a solutioun to this difficult issue

Im sorry my friend but I believe you need to go and do some research into this before you speak in such a matter of fact way

Registration is statute law - creating a vessel to operate within commerce
and is certainly not common law

It requires the parents to act as informants upon the child and registration is to hand over legal or title ownership of the vessel to the crown

This is an agreement / meeting of minds or contract between parties that a legal entity be created and then ownership of that title will pass to the crown

There is no disclosure of this to the parents - that along with the use of legalese tricks the informants into informing upon their child

How can anyone tell you that you must sign something ?

An agreement or written contract must be consentual or it can not stand in law - as consent makes the law

If you are to be forced into signing something as you say - are you not signing that document under duress ?

So by stating that you are signing the document under protest and duress next to your signature - you are stating stating the truth and ensuring you remain in honour - and in the driving seat when it comes to questioning the ownership of the registered legal title at any point in the future

Its common sense - the foolish ignore common sense - the devious tell others to ignore common sense
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Old 30-07-2010, 12:31 PM   #17
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...just so I understand -

"'If You Don't Register Your Children (Contract Them as Assets of the State Corporation) Social Services Cannot Take Them Away'

You'd like to create a situation whereby a parent can be suspected or proven of harming their child or putting them in danger but Social Services can do nothing about it?

erm.... why?
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Old 30-07-2010, 12:50 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by buntingbunny View Post
...just so I understand -

"'If You Don't Register Your Children (Contract Them as Assets of the State Corporation) Social Services Cannot Take Them Away'

You'd like to create a situation whereby a parent can be suspected or proven of harming their child or putting them in danger but Social Services can do nothing about it?

erm.... why?
Errm No !

If a parent is proven to have harmed their child by intention then absolutely that child should be placed in safe care

If they are suspected of causing harm then the full details of the allegations should be considered for each case and possibly the child placed with family members ie grandparents if a more full indepth enquiry is required - not forgetting innocent until proven guilty

You are forgetting of course that more children suffer abuse and die within the care system than within the care of their families

- and of course you speak of harm in a physical sense - how about each child inheritting their chunk of the ficticious national debt that is being passed down to them by the corporate slave machine - would you not want your child to have a get out clause for that ?

Do you agree with all the oppressive statute laws that are being forced upon your person every day ? - do you not wish to create an escape from that type of abuse for your children ?
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Old 30-07-2010, 01:05 PM   #19
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"Do you agree with all the oppressive statute laws that are being forced upon your person every day ? - do you not wish to create an escape from that type of abuse for your children ?"

Well, there's the rub, so to speak. While I would dearly love to stop paying taxes, there is the implied social bargain struck that says 'If I pay my taxes, you [the government] provide me with a school to educate my children, a hospital to visit if I'm sick, a police force to protect me etc etc (admittedly, how successful the government is at providing these things is a topic for a whole new thread!)

Personally, I believe that the population as a whole is at liberty to do a great deal more than some would have us believe. If you want to up sticks, move to a rain forest and live like Ray Mears then I doubt many people would stand in your way, or even care to be honest.
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Old 30-07-2010, 01:14 PM   #20
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..and to get the topic back on track, the OP states that the reason for not registering your children is to stop Social Services taking them away. It has no mention of alleviating them from any tax burden, real or imaginary.

Also, it would seem that the child has no choice in the matter and would make some of the simple pleasures that we take for granted e.g. a two week break on some sunny, foreign beach somewhere rather difficult. All for some untested theory that not having a birth certficate allows one to disappear from the system.

My advice would be to understand, and then exp[loit the system, rather than inject artifical barriers and hurdles into your childs life.
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