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Old 16-07-2010, 03:57 PM   #1
david c
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Default Let's analyze the Clavius and Bad Astronomy sites

Pro-Apollo people are always telling people who believe that the moon missions were faked that they should read the Clavius and Bad Astronomy websites and forums to see the anomalies explained (Click on the link in my signature to see some of them).
http://www.bautforum.com/forumdispla...iracy-Theories
http://www.clavius.org/
http://apollohoax.proboards.com/index.cgi?
(Clavius forum)

If we actually examine the forums of those two sites, we'll see some pretty lame stuff.

The Chinese space walk was obviously faked in a water tank.
(do a YouTube search on "Proof China Faked Their Spacewalk (Part 2)")
http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=ES&hl=es&v=NVbBFwdmldA
/watch?gl=ES&hl=es&v=NVbBFwdmldA

(do a YouTube search on "About paper and bubbles of ShenzhouVII")
http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=ES&hl=es&v=kG4Z_r38ZDE
/watch?gl=ES&hl=es&v=kG4Z_r38ZDE

http://en.epochtimes.com/n2/content/view/5809/
http://en.epochtimes.com/n2/content/view/8332/

Look at the discussions at the Clavius and Bad Astronomy forums on the Chinese spacewalk.
http://apollohoax.proboards.com/inde...ay&thread=2206
http://www.bautforum.com/showthread....alk-conspiracy
http://www.bautforum.com/showthread....ked-underwater
http://www.bautforum.com/showthread....irst-spacewalk

In the Clavius discussion they didn't even mention the evidence that proves the fakery such as the bubbles, buoyant safety cables, and fluttering flag. NASA's position on the Chinese spacewalk is that it was real so they just did a quick tap dance around the issue and didn't even touch the proof of fakery.
In the Bad Astronomy discussions they tried to obfuscate the evidence of fakery.

The analysis at Bad Astronomy of this anomaly pretty much destroys the credibility of that site.
http://www.livevideo.com/video/7720A...e-gem-par.aspx
(4:10 time mark)

http://www.bautforum.com/showthread....m-to-deal-with

The corner of Collins' jacket is obviously moving in strong gravity and they maintain that the movement is consistent with zero-gravity.

The discussion on this anomaly at the Clavius site is pretty unimpressive.
(do a YouTube search on "Apollo 15 flag waving")
/watch?v=ymwE1sNm82Y

http://apollohoax.proboards.com/inde...ay&thread=1138

They can't even come to any definite conclusions on the cause of the movement; they just "Know" that it was on the moon.

It's pretty clear that all of the regular posters at those two sites don't even believe their own arguments. The government is engaging in a lot of damage-control to counter the free-flow of information on the internet.
http://www.opposingdigits.com/forums...pic.php?t=1222

The Clavius and Bad Astronomy websites are obviously disinfo sites whose purpose is to mislead people and try to keep them thinking inside the box like good Americans.

I've got more stuff I can post about those two sites but this should get the ball rolling.
__________________
The Apollo moon missions were faked.
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144487

9/11 was an inside job.
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144746

Last edited by david c; 16-07-2010 at 04:57 PM.
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Old 16-07-2010, 10:08 PM   #2
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Post more. lets see yr hand. in a bit (bedtime noo)
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Old 17-07-2010, 08:27 AM   #3
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Why does this need a new thread? The evidence is being discussed in several threads already.

If you're main contention is that they are paid disinfo sites, how's this for a contention: they aren't.

People you agree with: Truthseekers
People you disagree with: paid disinfo agents and therefore must be lying.

Evidence you agree with: Valid, incontrovertible and flawless.
Evidence you disagree with: clearly faked and everyone who puts forward the evidence is lying, so there's no point discussing it.

The 'evidence' and 'theories' you're citing have been debunked so many times it's not worth the effort to debunk them again. The people selling their books and videos and making money from advertising other people who make money from books and videos must love you.
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Old 17-07-2010, 09:15 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by david c View Post
***** REMOVED ******
Baut Forum - You were banned for spamming and trolling
Apollohoax (which you dumbly call Clavius??) - You were banned for trolling and being a sock puppet.
http://apollohoax.proboards.com/inde...&page=18#37567
http://apollohoax.proboards.com/inde...&page=15#37527
And this one:
http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com...owtopic=179828

Your various names are: David C / Cosmored / Rocky / Fat Freddy

Chinese videos has been discussed many times on all the many forums you currently spam this to. I think we are up to 7 times posted on THIS FORUM.

Apollo 15 flag video, we are around the 15 times posted on THIS FORUM.

Collins' jacket we are at around about 7 times posted on THIS FORUM.

************************************************** ***
GO AND SEE THIS POST:
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showp...4&postcount=81

************************************************** ***

Here is some of your spamming history:

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showp...&postcount=221

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showp...0&postcount=50

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showp...postcount=1174

Half way down (a vast cut and pasted post!)
http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com...owtopic=179828

Half way down (a vast cut and pasted post!)
http://www.politicsforum.org/forum/v...992&p=13393960

Half way down(another vast cut and paste post!)
http://www.letpoliticstalk.com/showthread.php?tid=969

A few posts down (Cosmored)
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/fo...c=232.275;wap2

Here:
http://s1.zetaboards.com/LooseChange...=22131&t=51606

Half way down(another vast cut and paste post!)
http://www.flinttalk.com/viewtopic.php?p=51806

Half way down(another vast cut and paste post!)
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144487

Half way down(another vast cut and paste post!)
http://forum.grasscity.com/spiritual...ml#post4040581

Half way down(another vast cut and paste post!)
http://w.space.com/common/forums/vie...rt=300#p446649

Half way down(another vast cut and paste post!)
http://www.rushlimbaughforum.com/nev...82.html#p16275

Fat Freddy
http://www.scienceagogo.com/forum/ub...3272#Post33385

The usual full on cut and pasted post
http://www.truckersroad.com/fusionbb...php?tid/60495/

Fat Freddy (near the bottom - noticeable because they are the large posts!!)
http://www.sciforums.com/Man-Has-Nev...n-t-21262.html

The usual full on cut and pasted post
http://forums.thephins.com/showpost....7&postcount=17

New approach (the usual spam split into 3 posts - duplicate in post 2).
http://www.fightgame.com/fightgame-p...ed-studio.html


Now everyone, come along and watch this great video:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFrtpT1mKy8

Last edited by truegroup; 17-07-2010 at 06:08 PM.
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Old 17-07-2010, 07:03 PM   #5
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Quote:
Apollohoax (which you dumbly call Clavius??) - You were banned for trolling and being a sock puppet.
If you're going to try to mislead people, I guess I'll have to take the time to set the record straight.

I got banned from the Clavius forum for thirty days twice, and then permanently.

I got banned the first time for using non-Apollo info to further my argument that the government was capable of lying.
http://apollohoax.proboards.com/inde...1&page=3#27528
(see reply #33)

In that thread I argued that there was no reason to simply believe the data allegedly collected during the Apollo missions as it might very well be bogus. I cited other cases of the government's lying to show that the government was capable of lying. Tell us truegroup–do you think the moderator at Clavius was right to forbid me to use non-Apollo examples of the government's having lied to further my argument that the government is capable of lying?

I started this thread in another section in the hope that they'd let me speak freely.
http://apollohoax.proboards.com/inde...ay&thread=1575

As you can see if you read the thread, they were cornered and simply refused to answer my questions. I asked the moderator to tell them to answer the questions I was asking but the moderator protected them and simply closed the thread so they wouldn't have to deal with my question.

I got banned for thirty days again for the statement I made as the bottom of post #599 of this thead...
http://apollohoax.proboards.com/inde...&page=40#29568

...and for what I said in post #682.
http://apollohoax.proboards.com/inde...&page=46#29651

When I came back they just couldn't deal with the stuff I was posting, such as these two threads...
http://apollohoax.proboards.com/inde...ay&thread=1584
http://apollohoax.proboards.com/inde...ay&thread=1585

...so they started demanding that I apologize for calling them shills again. I ignored their demands and they banned me permanently.

It's all discussed for five pages starting here on post #138.
http://apollohoax.proboards.com/inde...d=1401&page=10

Before all of this, I'd been posting there under the name of "david". Here are some of the threads I started.
http://apollohoax.proboards.com/inde...ay&thread=1519
http://apollohoax.proboards.com/inde...ay&thread=1518
http://apollohoax.proboards.com/inde...ay&thread=1521
http://apollohoax.proboards.com/inde...ay&thread=1522
http://apollohoax.proboards.com/inde...ay&thread=1520

I started to have "Technical problems"; I couldn't stay logged in in the section where my threads were.
I ended up having to open a new account just to be able to keep posting in the threads I'd started. The people who set up Clavius and its forum had the intention of trying to keep Americans thinking inside the box. I wasn't breaking any rules so I guess all they could do was to sabotage my account to keep me from posting.

I had the same problem at this site. http://www.volconvo.com/forums/. I only had problems in the section where the 9/11 thread was and I was a persistent truther in that thread. I ended up having to open a new account there too.

It's pretty clear that they never went to the moon and that 9/11 was an inside job so we might as well just talk about disinfo tactics in this thread.

to be continued....
__________________
The Apollo moon missions were faked.
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144487

9/11 was an inside job.
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144746
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Old 17-07-2010, 07:18 PM   #6
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Quote:
Baut Forum - You were banned for spamming and trolling
Again, I guess I'll have to set the record straight.

I was posting there under the name "David C". Look at the last post of this page on which the moderator closed the thread.
http://www.bautforum.com/showthread....592#post893592
(excerpt)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Since David C did not answer the questions that were asked of him (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread....474#post891474), it is clear that this thread is not in which people are responding to each other.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here's the post with the questions asked of me.
http://www.bautforum.com/showthread....474#post891474

Here's where I answered them.
http://www.bautforum.com/showthread....498#post892498

The moderator closed the thread giving the reason that I hadn't answered the questions when I had in fact answered them so I started another thread on the subject.
http://www.bautforum.com/showthread....-an-inside-job

They closed that thread before a healthy discussion could even get started. I started another thread to complain about it.
http://www.bautforum.com/showthread....ty-low-tactics

That's what got me banned there. Shortly after that they decided to limit discussion in the conspiracy theory section to space and astronomy.
http://www.bautforum.com/showthread....223#post912223

Evidently they couldn't try to discrediting the evidence that 9/11 was an inside job without looking silly so they decided to just discontinue talking about it.

Here's another case where the moderator closed a thread because his people couldn't discredit the theory without looking silly.
http://www.bautforum.com/showthread....aine-smuggling

The behavior of those moderators is not the behavior of truth-seekers. It's the behavior of moderators trying to control the direction debates take. If the truther is winning the debate, they'll harass him or her and do whatever is necessary to make sure the official version prevails.
__________________
The Apollo moon missions were faked.
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144487

9/11 was an inside job.
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144746
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Old 17-07-2010, 07:22 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by david c View Post
I had the same problem at this site. http://www.volconvo.com/forums/
Sorry I missed one.

You are a serial spammer, you get banned for spamming the same videos in bulk OVER and OVER.

Debunked to death.

Chinese spacewalk filmed in a goddamn swimming pool? My arse.
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Old 17-07-2010, 07:36 PM   #8
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Let's talk about Jay Windley.
http://www.clavius.org/about.html

He is the webmaster of the Clavius site and one of the major posters at the Clavius forum.

Jay Windley got caught telling a big lie which is explained here.
http://apollohoax.proboards.com/inde...ay&thread=1094

In this thread in which we were discussing the lack of dust clouds when the rover drove through the soil kicking it up...
http://apollohoax.proboards.com/inde...ad=1009&page=1

...Jay and the other regular pro-Apollo posters at the Clavius forum said that it was impossible to make sand dust-free as just moving treated sand and placing it would cause enough erosion to create enough dust to cause a dust cloud when the sand is driven over.

Any seventh grade science student could tell you that's not true.

Look at post #385 on this page.
http://apollohoax.proboards.com/inde...&page=26#29354

Quote:
There's nothing impossible about sifting some sand and washing and scrubbing it until it's dust free and then placing it where the rover is going to drive.
-----------------------------------------
It has been clearly explained to you many times why it's impossible to handle particulates without generating dust. You simply say that it somehow didn't happen in this case, but do not say why.
Quote:
Spinning wheels over dust-free sand would not cause enough sand to erode into dust to make a cloud.
----------------------------------------
The majority of the dust is created as it is removed from the washing apparatus, conveyed to the photography site, and laid down -- not right as the rover wheels pass over it. The rover wheels would aerosolize the dust that was created in those prior steps.
He was obviiously wrong but he wasn't simply mistaken. He was lying as he said he knew what he knew from experience as you can see here.
Quote:
This whole idea of not being able to make sand dust-free is totally silly.

Not to the people who have actually tried to do it. And that would not be you.
Look what is said at this geology forum in posts #3 and #6.
http://www.geologyrocks.co.uk/forum/...re_sifted_sand

Quote:
Moving and sifting sand is unlikely to produce any finer grains (unless you really go at it and whack it with hammers or something!).
Quote:

transportation and dumping the sand will not be enough to cause dust creation unless you had a very dirty an dusty transport container.

driving a vehicle thru it will not creat dust either (unless you repeat the process insanely often to grind down the sand grains)
Look at the way Jay refused to answer this question asked of him.
His job is to make the official version of everything prevail so, if something is so clear that it can't be obfuscated, it's better to avoid the issue. A sincere truth-seeking scientist would have simply answered the question.

Jay Windley knows that Apollo was a hoax. He gets paid to try to obfuscate the evidence and try to discredit hoax-believers.
__________________
The Apollo moon missions were faked.
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144487

9/11 was an inside job.
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144746
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Old 17-07-2010, 08:00 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by david c View Post
Let's talk about Jay Windley.
No, not again. You've spammed that line of argument on here 10 or so times!Let's talk about your hero, the source of most of your 'info'

Jarrah White the liar.

Here is one of his videos where he is doing one of his school projects and interviewing his teacher of art -Jenny Heller!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iekIM...layer_embedded

Look at the comments on that video.

2mins 51seconds. The teacher says there are two lights sources for the object 'with two shadows'. When nothing else in the entire picture has two shadows. The extra shadow of the tiny rock is in fact a depression in the ground.

That is Jarrah's teacher he is interviewing - read this post (and the link on it for proof):
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showp...postcount=1160


Your whole post is some sort of spamming search for retribution. Trying to justify being banned for trolling and spamming at multiple forums, hmm I wonder why?

So about this irelevant 'lie' by Jay, that has no connection or significance to Apollo:

Jarrah White published a private email on youtube, against the rules, and then did it again on another site. Jay Windley refused quite simply to do the same.

The REAL story:
http://apollohoax.proboards.com/inde...ay&thread=2321
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Old 17-07-2010, 08:01 PM   #10
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Here's something interesting.

(do a YouTube search on "MoonFaker: The Punch Heard All Around The World. PART 3")

www (dot) youtube (dot) com/watch?v=xK9TXFQLjg4

At the 4:54 second mark of the above video Jarrah White says that, when he was debating with Jay Windley on this thread...
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0446557/.../133905495?p=1

,...the moderator started deleting his questions so that Jay wouldn't have to deal with anything he couldn't handle.

That certainly fits the pattern.
__________________
The Apollo moon missions were faked.
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144487

9/11 was an inside job.
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144746
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Old 17-07-2010, 08:04 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by david c View Post
At the 4:54 second mark of the above video Jarrah White says that, when he was debating with Jay Windley on this thread...
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0446557/.../133905495?p=1

,...the moderator started deleting his questions so that Jay wouldn't have to deal with anything he couldn't handle.
Yes, the comments where he posted obscenities. I read that whole painful thread. Jarrah eventually ran away when he got caught unable to explain his lack of science!
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Old 17-07-2010, 08:11 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by david c View Post
do a YouTube search on "Apollo 15 flag"
***** already posted 15 times video *****
Don't bother, you've probably all seen the debunking of it on the 15 or so replies to david c posts.


Uses geometry to show the astronaut was close enough to touch the flag:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lx5H7Rwfkjo

Uses perspective (and bad language also) to prove the astronaut touches the flag:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbJvgqoeFSU

Shows the actual movement of the flag speeded up, clearly showing ridiculous movement in the flag, impossible in air on Earth, clearly in a vacuum:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XbaWGXV9P8
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Old 17-07-2010, 08:41 PM   #13
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Quote:
Shows the actual movement of the flag speeded up, clearly showing ridiculous movement in the flag, impossible in air on Earth, clearly in a vacuum:
This video of yours...
(do a YouTube search on "Apollo 15 flag speeded up x 2")

...is speeded up to double speed. The theory is that the slow-motion speed was sixty seven percent.

(do a YouTube search on "MoonFaker: The Penny Drops. PART 1")
/watch?v=MW31fOWzY-E

Quote:
Uses perspective (and bad language also) to prove the astronaut touches the flag:
It's clear that it started moving before he got close enough to be able to touch it.
(do a YouTube search on "Initial Apollo 15 Flag Movement")
/watch?v=dW9qcL4LiUg

The slow motion of about sixty seven percent explains the speed of the flag's movement and the length of time it continues to move.
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showp...58&postcount=3

more on the flag issue here...
http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...he+Dead+Horses
http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...lags+Are+Alive

Click on the first YouTube video in the moon thread in my signature to see the original flag video.

The way the flag moves without being touched closes the whole case by itself. That was filmed in atmosphere.
__________________
The Apollo moon missions were faked.
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144487

9/11 was an inside job.
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144746
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Old 17-07-2010, 08:54 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by david c View Post
This video of yours...
(do a YouTube search on "Apollo 15 flag speeded up x 2")
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XbaWGXV9P8
www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XbaWGXV9P8

...is speeded up to double speed. The theory is that the slow-motion speed was sixty seven percent.
Well einstein, if it goes slower it takes LONGER for the flag to stop moving!!

AND, that was just an excuse for you to spam your apollo 15 flag video again.
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Old 17-07-2010, 09:00 PM   #15
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Some of those pro-Apollo posters from Clavius are posting at the"Unexplained Mysteries" forum.
A lot of people think that the poster with the username "MID" is Jay Windley.
(post #9183)
http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com...113834&st=9180

I think he probably is as he has the same posting style as Jay Windley. Notice in the above post that he never answered the question asked of him. He brushed it off as unimportant and just kept talking with the same authoritative patronizing attitude.

This flag issue has those people totally cornered...
(post #9224)
http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com...113834&st=9210

...but they won't admit defeat. They are about as impressive as the Black Knight in this clip from a Monty Python video.

(do a YouTube search on "Black Knight Holy Grail")
/watch?v=9RZ-hYPAMFQ
__________________
The Apollo moon missions were faked.
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144487

9/11 was an inside job.
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144746
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Old 17-07-2010, 09:20 PM   #16
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I'd tend to agree that on Bad Astronomy forum there is sucking up to Windley in a very big way - that's clearly evident from the number of gushing responses to his posts. -And if his posts reflect his character then it's evident that he's a pompous, supercilious know-all who employs evasive and aggressive tactics when it suits.

Whether he's some kind of shill is another matter. Maybe he just passionately believes what he believes. Since the Apollo debate looks set to run and run (and get more wearisome) I'm wondering exactly what people like you (David C) would consider irrefutable evidence of the moon landings? Well?
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Old 17-07-2010, 09:20 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by truegroup View Post
Sorry I missed one.

You are a serial spammer, you get banned for spamming the same videos in bulk OVER and OVER.

Debunked to death.

Chinese spacewalk filmed in a goddamn swimming pool? My arse.
911 was an inside job

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showp...0&postcount=91

that changes everything
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Old 17-07-2010, 09:21 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by david c View Post
blah blah
Straight question:

How do you account for the flag taking nearly 15 seconds to stop moving when speeded up by 2?

How do you account for the flag taking nearly 22.5 seconds to stop moving when speeded up by 1.5?


Saying people are cornered on another forum (on a cherry picked thread of many), after I showed two videos PROVING the astronaut was plenty close enough to touch the flag is evasive, a lie, and a diversary tactic.

Last edited by truegroup; 17-07-2010 at 09:22 PM.
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Old 17-07-2010, 09:38 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by david c View Post
Here's something interesting.

(do a YouTube search on "MoonFaker: The Punch Heard All Around The World. PART 3")
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xK9TXFQLjg4

www (dot) youtube (dot) com/watch?v=xK9TXFQLjg4

At the 4:54 second mark of the above video Jarrah White says that, when he was debating with Jay Windley on this thread...
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0446557/.../133905495?p=1

,...the moderator started deleting his questions so that Jay wouldn't have to deal with anything he couldn't handle.

That certainly fits the pattern.
I read that thread. The only things deleted were when Jarrah decided to sling insults to cover the fact that he couldn't answer the questions asked.

I've never seen you back up this statement
Quote:
Any seventh grade science student could tell you that's not true.
I actually asked some seventh grade science students and some older as well. They said they didn't know. Can you actually back your statement up or is this yet another case of you unable to distinguish opinion from fact? (like everything else you post)
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Old 17-07-2010, 09:44 PM   #20
frenat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by david c View Post
Some of those pro-Apollo posters from Clavius are posting at the"Unexplained Mysteries" forum.
A lot of people think that the poster with the username "MID" is Jay Windley.
A lot of people (including yourself) would be wrong.


[QUOTE=david c;1059062392](post #9183)
http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com...113834&st=9180

I think he probably is as he has the same posting style as Jay Windley.[/quoted]
Which? Educated or sick of your trolling crap?
Quote:
Originally Posted by david c View Post
Notice in the above post that he never answered the question asked of him. He brushed it off as unimportant and just kept talking with the same authoritative patronizing attitude.

This flag issue has those people totally cornered...
(post #9224)
http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com...113834&st=9210
Looks to me like they're just sick of Turbonium's lack of ability to reason logically, back up anything or his tendency to bring up months or years old issues when he thinks people have forgotten how he proved he didn't know what he was talking about the last time. He's much like you. May you are turbonium. There is about as much evidence of that as there is of MID being Jay.
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