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View Poll Results: Do you think the Apollo Lunar landings are fake?
Yes 75 70.75%
No 20 18.87%
Not sure need to do more research. 11 10.38%
Voters: 106. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 17-05-2018, 05:50 PM   #821
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So it is affecting both.
Here we go again Bewilderman and his observations.

No. The bloody satellite is affected only vertically by gravity. The horizontal motion is what keeps it constantly falling around the Earth.

A thousand facepalms at you. Toddle off and find the clue shop.
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The funny thing is that such credophiles see themselves as sharp-eyed piercers of the veil, too sophisticated to be taken in by fakery. But they fall for almost anything that feeds into their convictions.
An analysis of Apollo Landing Sites. Debunk: To expose the falseness or hollowness of an idea or belief.

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Old 17-05-2018, 06:08 PM   #822
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No. The bloody satellite is affected only vertically by gravity. The horizontal motion is what keeps it constantly falling around the Earth.
And if by some kind of magic you could turn off the gravity, what would stop the motion of a satellite changing its orbital track from that of an ellipse to a straight line hurtling off into space?
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Old 17-05-2018, 06:40 PM   #823
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and if by some kind of magic you could turn off the gravity, what would stop the motion of a satellite changing its orbital track from that of an ellipse to a straight line hurtling off into space?
nothing. What the crap are you on about?
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The funny thing is that such credophiles see themselves as sharp-eyed piercers of the veil, too sophisticated to be taken in by fakery. But they fall for almost anything that feeds into their convictions.
An analysis of Apollo Landing Sites. Debunk: To expose the falseness or hollowness of an idea or belief.

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Old 17-05-2018, 06:55 PM   #824
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842lbs



A total fabrication. Whoever told you this, that you blindly believed is either mistaken or is lying. NASA gave away loads of tiny fragments in presentation format or as gifts to universities and such. These amounted to a couple of rocks. Some of these gifts have gone missing and it is nothing to do with NASA as they were given away.
I got it from reports from NASA -

'NASA Has Lost Hundreds of Its Moon Rocks, New Report Says
This NASA moon rock was collected by astronauts on the Apollo 14 mission to the lunar surface in 1971.
NASA has lost or misplaced more than 500 of the moon rocks its Apollo astronauts collected and brought back to Earth, according to a new agency report.
In an audit released Thursday (Dec. 8), NASA's Office of Inspector General states that:
"NASA has been experiencing loss of astromaterials since lunar samples were first returned by Apollo missions," inspector general Paul K. Martin detailed in the report. "In addition to the Mount Cuba disk, NASA confirmed that 516 other loaned astromaterials have been lost or stolen between 1970 and June 2010, including 18 lunar samples reported lost by a researcher in 2010 and 218 lunar and meteorite samples stolen from a researcher at [NASA's Johnson Space Center] in 2002, but since recovered."
And while the agency reported the 517 missing moon rock samples, even more of these precious materials may have gone astray, according to the report.'
'The report also found that the Astromaterials Acquisition and Curation Office at the Johnson Space Center in Houston had records of hundreds of samples that no longer exist, and loans to 12 researchers who had died, retired or relocated, sometimes without the office's knowledge and without returning the samples'.


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Did you make that lie up or did you blindly believe someone else?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/sci...andmother.html

Nasa agents retrieve moon rocks from a grandmother...


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Originally Posted by truegroup View Post
Are you making this crap up!? The Apollo samples are diferent to meteorites in many ways. Apollo: There is no terrestrial weathering. There is very strong exterior Helium 3, ablated on meteorites. There are tiny craters formed from micro-meteiroid impacts. The solar isotopes have different content. And the oxygen isotopes are bloody identical!
Oxygen found in moon rocks in 1962
https://www.sciencenews.org/article/...gen-moon-rocks

The Russians also have moon rocks so why wouldn't you compare them to prove they are real when there is a huge conspiracy? They did anyway so someone thought it was relevant as proof.

I do read - a lot - wheras you just speak from your mind which usually consists of insulting others.

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Old 17-05-2018, 07:46 PM   #825
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I got it from reports from NASA -
I think we are getting crossed wires here.

This is a report on loaned materials for analysis. They don't just include Apollo samples, but also a whole host of meteorites.

"But perhaps the losses need to be put into context, said Robert Pearlman, editor of collectSPACE.com, an online publication and community for space history and artifact enthusiasts.

"According to the Office of Inspector General, out of the 26,000 samples NASA has on loan, it has lost just 517," Pearlman told SPACE.com. "That's not to excuse the space agency and its curators, but with so many samples spread across the globe, some losses are probably to be expected.""


These samples are usually slivers of actual moon rock. That number is a percentage of JUST the ones on loan. 2% roughly....of the loaned ones and about 0.3% of total!

"NASA regularly loans moon rocks, meteorites and samples of comet dust to museums, researchers, educators and institutions around the world. The Astromaterials Acquisition and Curation Office maintains 140,000 lunar samples, 18,000 meteorite samples, and about 5,000 solar wind, comet and cosmic dust samples, the report said.

"As of March 2011, over 26,000 of these samples were on loan for scientific study, educational pursuits and public outreach purposes," Martin wrote."



Quote:
Nasa agents retrieve moon rocks from a grandmother...
And? You said...

"and the ones that were recovered (mostly by NASA agents) turned out to mostly be fake."

Did you make that lie up? None of them are fake that came from NASA Apollo program. That grandmother had obtained one of the very tiny fragments I mentioned.

Quote:
Oxygen found in moon rocks in 1962
https://www.sciencenews.org/article/...gen-moon-rocks
As I said the oxygen isotopes are the same!

Quote:
The Russians also have moon rocks so why wouldn't you compare them to prove they are real when there is a huge conspiracy?
They are similar in their overall composition. There is no "huge conspiracy", there is a small number of very ignorant people who make lots of noise without knowing what the hell they are talking about.

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They did anyway so someone thought it was relevant as proof.
They didn't do it to placate hoaxnuts.

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I do read - a lot - wheras you just speak from your mind which usually consists of insulting others.
You read the shit sites or don't understand what you are reading I speak from my knowledge base of the Apollo program. I am not insulting you, I am deriding your post. Successfully. You haven't a clue what you are talking about. Even above where you think you have scored a point, it just shows how little you understood what you read. Quite clearly, a tiny fraction of the loaned specimens have gone missing....not bloody stolen!

BUT, it's irrelevant. They still have just under 140,000 samples and you ignored the analyses that authenticate them.

Address this now, be brave.
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Never underestimate the power of the Internet to lend unwarranted credibility to the colossally misinformed.
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Originally Posted by sts60
The funny thing is that such credophiles see themselves as sharp-eyed piercers of the veil, too sophisticated to be taken in by fakery. But they fall for almost anything that feeds into their convictions.
An analysis of Apollo Landing Sites. Debunk: To expose the falseness or hollowness of an idea or belief.

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Old 17-05-2018, 09:23 PM   #826
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I think we are getting crossed wires here.

This is a report on loaned materials for analysis. They don't just include Apollo samples, but also a whole host of meteorites.

"But perhaps the losses need to be put into context, said Robert Pearlman, editor of collectSPACE.com, an online publication and community for space history and artifact enthusiasts.

"According to the Office of Inspector General, out of the 26,000 samples NASA has on loan, it has lost just 517," Pearlman told SPACE.com. "That's not to excuse the space agency and its curators, but with so many samples spread across the globe, some losses are probably to be expected.""


These samples are usually slivers of actual moon rock. That number is a percentage of JUST the ones on loan. 2% roughly....of the loaned ones and about 0.3% of total!

"NASA regularly loans moon rocks, meteorites and samples of comet dust to museums, researchers, educators and institutions around the world. The Astromaterials Acquisition and Curation Office maintains 140,000 lunar samples, 18,000 meteorite samples, and about 5,000 solar wind, comet and cosmic dust samples, the report said.

"As of March 2011, over 26,000 of these samples were on loan for scientific study, educational pursuits and public outreach purposes," Martin wrote."





And? You said...

"and the ones that were recovered (mostly by NASA agents) turned out to mostly be fake."

Did you make that lie up? None of them are fake that came from NASA Apollo program. That grandmother had obtained one of the very tiny fragments I mentioned.



As I said the oxygen isotopes are the same!



They are similar in their overall composition. There is no "huge conspiracy", there is a small number of very ignorant people who make lots of noise without knowing what the hell they are talking about.



They didn't do it to placate hoaxnuts.



You read the shit sites or don't understand what you are reading I speak from my knowledge base of the Apollo program. I am not insulting you, I am deriding your post. Successfully. You haven't a clue what you are talking about. Even above where you think you have scored a point, it just shows how little you understood what you read. Quite clearly, a tiny fraction of the loaned specimens have gone missing....not bloody stolen!

BUT, it's irrelevant. They still have just under 140,000 samples and you ignored the analyses that authenticate them.

Address this now, be brave.
I gave you an example of news stories that have been verified - I am not giving links to each one in detail - anyone can look it up themselves it's everywhere - it was in the news at the time.

Point scoring? I'm not point scoring are you?

Did you consider that since the moon rocks are valuable that people may have stolen them and made fakes themselves to sell them more than once?
Nasa is going to go after all of them - so you can't say what came from them or not - even they don't know until they test them. They don't know where the missing rocks went.

And you ignore the facts - like the fact that Russia also have moon samples - as if there's don't count.

So far I have given plenty of evidence that NASA was not run efficiently back then and they messed things up a lot. Everyone makes mistakes - but they made some whoppers considering the enormity of their position and job.

Can you then blame people for questioning everything they did?

It's just amazing that they got to the moon despite all these things.

You'd think now they have things under tighter control they'd have achieved more than a moon landing with humans....but nope....we are here still talking about what they did in the past ...yawn!

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Old 18-05-2018, 10:08 AM   #827
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I gave you an example of news stories that have been verified - I am not giving links to each one in detail - anyone can look it up themselves it's everywhere - it was in the news at the time.
Verified yes. I verified the detail for you. You implied that NASA has had its rocks stolen.

FACT: 2% of the ones LOANED OUT had gone missing.
FACT: 0.3% of the total specimens in their possession.
FACT: Your claim is wrong - if you dispute this, back it up.

You also claimed that NASA doctors its images and therefore that puts into question the APOLLO images.

FACT: ALL the Apollo images are online in their raw scanned format.
FACT: NASA enhances pictures with colour, contrast and cropping.
FACT: ALL pictures that have had extensive editing are noted as such.
FACT: NONE of the Apollo images have been nefariously edited.

You claimed the missing tapes were significant. How did you know about them? NASA told the world. If faking this impossible shit was so easy, they could have knocked up a set and nobody would be any the wiser....duhhhh.

FACT: These were BACKUP tapes. The TV signal was successfully transmitted and stored in numerous places. The telemetry was transmitted and recorded in reports and analysis.
FACT: This was for Apollo 11 only.
FACT: None of the data on these tapes was lost.

Quote:
Did you consider that since the moon rocks are valuable that people may have stolen them and made fakes themselves to sell them more than once?
Irrelevant. The NASA Apollo rocks have been examined by geologists all around the world, they are authentic.

FACT: The rocks cannot come from the Earth.
FACT: They cannot be from meteorites.
FACT: Technology did not exist to bring back samples of that volume.
FACT: Not one single geologist has called into question the veracity of the samples.

You claimed that the Soviets doubted the Apollo landings. a total lie. Even from your own badly written wooo site, it details the exact context of the quote from the Russian PERSON....

"“We are not contending that they did not fly [to the moon], and simply made a film about it. But all of these scientific — or perhaps cultural — artifacts are part of the legacy of humanity, and their disappearance without a trace is our common loss. An investigation will reveal what happened.” "

Quote:
Nasa is going to go after all of them - so you can't say what came from them or not - even they don't know until they test them. They don't know where the missing rocks went.
Irrelevant. What happens to the samples out of NASA's care is not their fault. Quite rightly they would try to retrieve them. How does the theft of loaned out samples negate the thousands of reports as to their authenticity?

Quote:
And you ignore the facts - like the fact that Russia also have moon samples - as if there's don't count.
Don't be ridiculous! I don't ignore that at all. I said they don't NEED to verify that the samples are authentic by comparison with the Soviet samples. Their own analysis was verification enough. I also said "They are similar in their overall composition."

Quote:
So far I have given plenty of evidence that NASA was not run efficiently back then and they messed things up a lot.
Bullshit. You have done no such thing. But hey, if it makes you feel good, they did run it badly, they made numerous cock ups. Along the way though, they learned from their mistakes and didn't repeat them!

It's called testing

Quote:
Everyone makes mistakes - but they made some whoppers considering the enormity of their position and job.
They made one whopper, loads of smaller ones. Apollo 1 was the whopper.

Quote:
Can you then blame people for questioning everything they did?
So long as they read the bloody answers! Go on recap what you claimed and bring into your answer my responses....go on...

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It's just amazing that they got to the moon despite all these things.
All what things, list them again!! The hardware was tested over and over again. That was the bit that needed to work. The spacesuits were solidly designed. The orbital and flight mechanics were straightforward. The process was tested.

Show the PROPER problems instead of waving your arms about. As I said, you have not got the slightest clue what you are talking about. You read conspiracy crap and spew it out as fact.

Quote:
You'd think now they have things under tighter control they'd have achieved more than a moon landing with humans....but nope....we are here still talking about what they did in the past ...yawn!
Apart from all the interplanetary missions to Mars, Saturn, Jupiter, Voyager, the shuttle, Orion, Hubble, thousands of satellites



ANSWER PLEASE: You said...

"and the ones that were recovered (mostly by NASA agents) turned out to mostly be fake."

Did you make that lie up? None of them are fake that came from NASA Apollo program. That grandmother had obtained one of the very tiny fragments I mentioned.
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Originally Posted by Jay Windley
Never underestimate the power of the Internet to lend unwarranted credibility to the colossally misinformed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sts60
The funny thing is that such credophiles see themselves as sharp-eyed piercers of the veil, too sophisticated to be taken in by fakery. But they fall for almost anything that feeds into their convictions.
An analysis of Apollo Landing Sites. Debunk: To expose the falseness or hollowness of an idea or belief.

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Old 18-05-2018, 10:28 AM   #828
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In an interview about moon images he said:
“I have been told by a very reliable source, he asked me, what camera did I get that image from on the moon, I said ‘Hasselblad,’ and he said, ‘That’s right.’ He says, ‘I thought we darkened that enough that you wouldn’t find it.’ “
This made me laugh. I actually missed it the first time. Can you see why using this quote maybe doesn't quite dispute we landed on the Moon?

Can you

P.s. What's the betting she quotes the whole of my large post above in one chunk and ignores 90% of it.
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The funny thing is that such credophiles see themselves as sharp-eyed piercers of the veil, too sophisticated to be taken in by fakery. But they fall for almost anything that feeds into their convictions.
An analysis of Apollo Landing Sites. Debunk: To expose the falseness or hollowness of an idea or belief.

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Old 18-05-2018, 10:36 AM   #829
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They still have just under 140,000 samples and you ignored the analyses that authenticate them.

Address this now, be brave.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Windley
Never underestimate the power of the Internet to lend unwarranted credibility to the colossally misinformed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sts60
The funny thing is that such credophiles see themselves as sharp-eyed piercers of the veil, too sophisticated to be taken in by fakery. But they fall for almost anything that feeds into their convictions.
An analysis of Apollo Landing Sites. Debunk: To expose the falseness or hollowness of an idea or belief.
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Old 18-05-2018, 11:12 AM   #830
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In 1998, a unique federal law enforcement undercover operation was created to identify and arrest individuals selling bogus Moon rocks. This sting operation was known as Operation Lunar Eclipse. Originally two undercover agents were involved in this sting, Senior Special Agent Joseph Gutheinz of NASA's Office of Inspector General (NASA OIG), posing as Tony Coriasso, and Inspector Bob Cregger of the United States Postal Inspection Service, posing as John Marta.The sting operation was led by NASA OIG Senior Special Agent Joseph Gutheinz. Agents were targeting individuals selling bogus Moon rocks.

So you said that NASA were not interested in recovering fake moon rocks - well they did - lots of them! But I agree with you - they should not have had an interest in recovering fake ones - only real ones - but there you go.

I have never said there was no moon landing nor did I say the guy I quoted said that - he mentioned they edited moon landing photos though which is why I mentioned him even though you said he was irrelevant.
So you believe him when he says about the moon if they back up your story but not about things he has seen in the planetary rings.

As I said on the other thread - I don't like conversing with people that constantly make derogatory comments toward me. It's called bullying.

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Old 18-05-2018, 11:40 AM   #831
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In 1998, a unique federal law enforcement undercover operation was created to identify and arrest individuals selling bogus Moon rocks. This sting operation was known as Operation Lunar Eclipse. Originally two undercover agents were involved in this sting, Senior Special Agent Joseph Gutheinz of NASA's Office of Inspector General (NASA OIG), posing as Tony Coriasso, and Inspector Bob Cregger of the United States Postal Inspection Service, posing as John Marta.The sting operation was led by NASA OIG Senior Special Agent Joseph Gutheinz. Agents were targeting individuals selling bogus Moon rocks.
And what has that got to do with Apollo???? You've been given stats from your own bloody sites showing this figure as miniscule...yet you persist...why?

Quote:
So you said that NASA were not interested in recovering fake moon rocks - well they did - lots of them!
Verify this right now!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stolen...ing_moon_rocks

I make it 4 - does that count as lots?

Quote:
But I agree with you - they should not have had an interest in recovering fake ones - only real ones - but there you go.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stolen...ing_moon_rocks

The ones I highlighted originally! These would be the exhibits given out to individual countries.

Quote:
I have never said there was no moon landing nor did I say the guy I quoted said that
Then what the hell are you doing in this thread about the impossible hoax??

Quote:
he mentioned they edited moon landing photos though which is why I mentioned him even though you said he was irrelevant.
In the absence of any evidence, he may as well be talking about alienz in his pants.

Quote:
So you believe him when he says about the moon if they back up your story but not about things he has seen in the planetary rings.
Nope. I quoted YOUR bloody reference. I don't believe him at all.

Quote:
As I said on the other thread - I don't like conversing with people that constantly make derogatory comments toward me. It's called bullying.
Poor little you. Maybe if you started debating in good faith instead of ignoring vast portions of my responses, you'd get less of it. I just basically dissected your entire contributions to this thread and all you have is whining about your treatment.

What kind of truthers ignore evidence that makes a mockery of their claims. That would be the "truthers" who debate the Moon landings.

Now, how about being brave, admit you cocked up and move on. Now that would be a novelty.
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Never underestimate the power of the Internet to lend unwarranted credibility to the colossally misinformed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sts60
The funny thing is that such credophiles see themselves as sharp-eyed piercers of the veil, too sophisticated to be taken in by fakery. But they fall for almost anything that feeds into their convictions.
An analysis of Apollo Landing Sites. Debunk: To expose the falseness or hollowness of an idea or belief.

Last edited by truegroup; 18-05-2018 at 11:40 AM.
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