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Old 22-10-2011, 10:39 PM   #21
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http://webskeptic.wikidot.com/money-as-debt
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Old 22-10-2011, 10:51 PM   #22
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I got to about 5:30 and had to stop.

That was absolutely pathetic.
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Old 22-10-2011, 11:42 PM   #23
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He forgot one crucial aspect..........INTEREST!!!!!!!!
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Old 24-10-2011, 06:00 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by hadabusa View Post
allow me to be critical.

what other option other than money as debt is possible?

tell examples?

say, if we didnt have fractional reserve banking, what do you think would that mean to the common people and their future perspectives?

and what you think where economy would stand these days?
i see you are a fan of unlimited growth at exponential speed at that. take away fractional reserve and growth would slow to a rate that would translate to "live within your means". nothing wrong with that. the earth is finite. we cant afford to "burn it all up tommorrow".
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Old 24-10-2011, 08:36 PM   #25
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good to see you have a sense of humour had a great laugh
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Old 26-10-2011, 01:40 PM   #26
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Fantastic thread, and Vid , thanks bemore!

Everyone who has not seen this vid should watch it!

I already knew this stuff, but this Vid makes it very clear for those that really need to know .

thanks very much for this thread, I really hope that heaps of people watch it and understand/overstand what is going on.

Very much appreciated ( also , i like the way you tried to get into the 'general' thread, even tho it was not appreciated, mainly cos they didnt get the message.. didnt watch it... so just did not realise how it was actually appropriate .. in a way. )

You rock!
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Old 09-12-2011, 07:12 PM   #27
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Default Great video

This is a great video, very easy to follow, and very instructive about how the banking system works.

it's also posted on this discussion forum: Not-Two Is Peace Discussions - Money As Debt
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Old 23-03-2012, 10:44 AM   #28
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needed a good laugh this morning so i came back here and watched from 1:18 - 2:06. i discovered the secret to ever expanding wealth lol. just call your liabilties assets...lol...lol...hey joe...hang on to this 20 for me....now joe has 20 dollars to call his own...lol...and he can lend it to anyone he wants...right...i wonder what judge judy would say?...i wonder if she might bring the law into it?...lol...another utube star...lol
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Old 26-04-2012, 05:35 AM   #29
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Default Nothing wrong with debt! It's the interest.

The Money as Debt video has some major misinformation.
Check out this:

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Old 26-04-2012, 05:47 AM   #30
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What about islamic (ie interest free) banking?

Is this acceptable?
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Old 26-04-2012, 06:29 AM   #31
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What about islamic (ie interest free) banking?

Is this acceptable?
Islamic banking is only nominally interest free. It uses carefully structured transactions to achieve the same results are ordinary interest-charging transactions. For example, suppose I lend you $100, to buy goods, at a flat rate of interest of 1% for 1 year. In 12 months you will pay me $112. In an Islamic Banking the same thing might be achieved if I bought the goods for $100 and gave them to you upon your promise to pay $112 in 12 months. The end result is virtually identical.
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Old 26-04-2012, 07:16 PM   #32
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Check out mathematically perfected economy for the solution!
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Old 26-04-2012, 10:13 PM   #33
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Default Money as Debt 3.

For those who are interested,there is now a 'Money as Debt 3' on you tube.

... There you go.
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Old 27-04-2012, 05:31 AM   #34
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Default Total Crap!

How can he say the problem isn't Interest its Debt! Debt is not harmful if there is no interest on it. The new system he advocates still has interest! Why? Unbelievable. This crap is spreading so much disinformation.
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Old 27-04-2012, 06:48 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by mpe_solution View Post
How can he say the problem isn't Interest its Debt! Debt is not harmful if there is no interest on it. The new system he advocates still has interest! Why? Unbelievable. This crap is spreading so much disinformation.
Regardless if debt has interest, taking dept is living beyond your means, payed back from future earnings. Debt could still cause problems with out interest, and there would be few people willing to lend out of kindness.
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Old 27-04-2012, 06:49 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by aulus agerius View Post
Islamic banking is only nominally interest free. It uses carefully structured transactions to achieve the same results are ordinary interest-charging transactions. For example, suppose I lend you $100, to buy goods, at a flat rate of interest of 1% for 1 year. In 12 months you will pay me $112. In an Islamic Banking the same thing might be achieved if I bought the goods for $100 and gave them to you upon your promise to pay $112 in 12 months. The end result is virtually identical.
I was wondering how islamic banking worked.
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Old 27-04-2012, 01:07 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aulus agerius View Post
Islamic banking is only nominally interest free. It uses carefully structured transactions to achieve the same results are ordinary interest-charging transactions. For example, suppose I lend you $100, to buy goods, at a flat rate of interest of 1% for 1 year. In 12 months you will pay me $112. In an Islamic Banking the same thing might be achieved if I bought the goods for $100 and gave them to you upon your promise to pay $112 in 12 months. The end result is virtually identical.
not even close....

more like, lets say i (the bank) bought the goods for 100 from the seller and then sold them to you for 112 to be paid in installments with no penalties for late payment, no commpounding interest ect etc...big difference

Last edited by reverendjim; 27-04-2012 at 01:10 PM.
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Old 27-04-2012, 02:21 PM   #38
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not even close....
Islamic banking - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

more like, lets say i (the bank) bought the goods for 100 from the seller and then sold them to you for 112 to be paid in installments with no penalties for late payment, no commpounding interest ect etc...big difference
If it's that good, why sit around whining about banks that charge interest etc, when you can use an Islamic bank and hit the others where it hurts?
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Old 27-04-2012, 03:13 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by reverendjim View Post
not even close....
Islamic banking - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

more like, lets say i (the bank) bought the goods for 100 from the seller and then sold them to you for 112 to be paid in installments with no penalties for late payment, no commpounding interest ect etc...big difference

Quote:
Islamic banking has the same purpose as conventional banking: to make money for the banking institute by lending out capital............................. ......... in an Islamic mortgage transaction, instead of loaning the buyer money to purchase the item, a bank might buy the item itself from the seller, and re-sell it to the buyer at a profit,
So it seems the banks still profit from the transaction and also the bank can sell the house to the buyer at any price, recovering what they would earn from charging interest. It is not really the money you are paying interest on but paying for a service that lends to you. the point is the effect is the same as traditional interest banking. that the buyer pays in installments shows that he has made a promise to pay with money he will have at a future date.

Last edited by jon galt; 27-04-2012 at 03:30 PM.
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Old 27-04-2012, 03:30 PM   #40
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You do know that wikipedia is not exactly the most comprehensive resource on Islamic finance right?

My example was deliberately simplistic so that it would be easily understood and dealt only with the "interest free" point because that was the point raised. If you believe that "interest" is the problem, the Islamic finance is not a solution because in substance it still involves interest.

It does certainly have some advantages, but many of those relate as much to cultural attitudes towards debt as to strict law. Views on penalties for late payment, for example, vary: some think they are acceptable in the case of a debtor who can pay but refuses, while others think that they are unacceptable in every case, and yet others permit them, but require them to be donated to charity. The general prohibition on uncertainty in contracts also has advantages in relation to consumer credit, since to makes it possible for the consumer to know with a higher degree of certainty what they will pay.

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more like, lets say i (the bank) bought the goods for 100 from the seller and then sold them to you for 112 to be paid in installments with no penalties for late payment, no commpounding interest ect etc...big difference
As you say, big difference from the current system, however, the big difference is not the absence of interest.
The restrictions can also be problematic: in theory they ought to lead to higher interest rates for borrowers; they would lead to greater bank ownership of assets (note that in my "conventional" example, money is lent directly to the consumer, whereas in the Islamic example, the bank itself buys the goods and sells them to the consumer, this is even more true of the lease-sale type of Islamic finance deal. In addition, Islamic finance comes with some restrictions which are essentially religious: you couldn't, for example, use Islamic finance to invest any of the various products forbidden by Islam (such as alcohol and pork).

Islamic finance is also capable of resulting in unaffordable borrowing - consider, for example, the Islamic bonds of Dubai's Nakheel company: through those Dubai borrowed unaffordably and had to be bailed out by Abu Dhabi.
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