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Old 04-06-2016, 11:54 PM   #21
muhammad bear
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Hmmm, heard that somewhere before...can't place it at the minute. I suspect it may have been in the the States.
It's an old quote.

You may have heard it from Lon Milo Duquette.
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Old 05-06-2016, 05:31 PM   #22
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I have it on good authority that there is a book available that would help you with that question. Might I suggest Ge:1-3 and Re:20-22 be used as my version of 'who God is' and it is written in a form that is meant to be understood by the people who need the info to make it through the last tribulation alive and unharmed. De:4:30 would be unfolding in literal terms.
Myths borrowed from ancient civilizations.
The last tribulation will happen... in your own mind!
What would a cell consider "god"? The whole body in which it is found.

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Old 06-06-2016, 12:51 AM   #23
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Would that be the outer limit as that would seem to eliminate 'God' as being the source for every living cell. We live and then we die, that is not possible the way God is defined.

That being said, if the history of the earth went back to 400,000 years ago when climatic changes changed the earth from a climate we are used to to one that is one long ice-age where the earth is in an ice-age climatic condition and the benefits that come with the elimination of the 'desert belt' that circles the globe. The farmland that is lost can grow 1 crop per year, the farmland that will replace it will grow 2 or 3 crops per year, year in and year out.
The calamity was entering that change and reacting wrongly to it. (moving close together caused problems when food was more than adequate and it grew 'wild' unless you wanted something 'special' so it was 'free for all people'. Should some survive they remain and they have 360,000 years to do things without wars being a distraction, in that time they could have created what the Bible says were the 'sons of God' in Ge:6, without God existing but men finding a way to live together in peace is required before you can advance yourself.
I don't have a problem with this sort of version being possible, the bible even provides an option where we live 'forever' compared to what we do today.

I think Ge:1 does the best job of giving the earth's history if the 'old earth creation' theme is adapted as that puts the end of day 1 as being in 4,000,000,000BC. Time is named at the end of day 4 and in that 'time' 360M years has passed (and change) the length of 1 day on the earth changed. That could be from the rotation staying the same and the size of the 'globe' was increased or the moon's slowing down effect changed the length of 'a day'. Since about 40,000,000BC a day has been as long as it is today. I don't believe any other ancient texts promote that aspect of our past and the bible takes it further by using a period of '1,000 years' will happen and mess around with the numbers that works out to be 3.6B years and at that time the changes include being melted by heat, such as the sun becoming a red giant. That is another trait the bible has that is missing from the other ancient stories. Feel free to correct me on these 2 points.
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Old 06-06-2016, 12:47 PM   #24
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Would that be the outer limit as that would seem to eliminate 'God' as being the source for every living cell. We live and then we die, that is not possible the way God is defined.

That being said, if the history of the earth went back to 400,000 years ago when climatic changes changed the earth from a climate we are used to to one that is one long ice-age where the earth is in an ice-age climatic condition and the benefits that come with the elimination of the 'desert belt' that circles the globe. The farmland that is lost can grow 1 crop per year, the farmland that will replace it will grow 2 or 3 crops per year, year in and year out.
The calamity was entering that change and reacting wrongly to it. (moving close together caused problems when food was more than adequate and it grew 'wild' unless you wanted something 'special' so it was 'free for all people'. Should some survive they remain and they have 360,000 years to do things without wars being a distraction, in that time they could have created what the Bible says were the 'sons of God' in Ge:6, without God existing but men finding a way to live together in peace is required before you can advance yourself.
I don't have a problem with this sort of version being possible, the bible even provides an option where we live 'forever' compared to what we do today.

I think Ge:1 does the best job of giving the earth's history if the 'old earth creation' theme is adapted as that puts the end of day 1 as being in 4,000,000,000BC. Time is named at the end of day 4 and in that 'time' 360M years has passed (and change) the length of 1 day on the earth changed. That could be from the rotation staying the same and the size of the 'globe' was increased or the moon's slowing down effect changed the length of 'a day'. Since about 40,000,000BC a day has been as long as it is today. I don't believe any other ancient texts promote that aspect of our past and the bible takes it further by using a period of '1,000 years' will happen and mess around with the numbers that works out to be 3.6B years and at that time the changes include being melted by heat, such as the sun becoming a red giant. That is another trait the bible has that is missing from the other ancient stories. Feel free to correct me on these 2 points.
The problem is that you try to translate metaphors and allegories of a series of myths into reality. Forget the myth and look into reality: engage yourself in paleontology, archeology, physics, psychology, sociology... Expand your field of interest (go without) then reflect on your own biology and psychology (go within), and you will begin to understand the whole world and your place in the world.

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Old 06-06-2016, 02:00 PM   #25
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God is the demiurge. Probably created by our frightened thoughts as we die. Also kept alive by our fear of God.
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Old 06-06-2016, 09:04 PM   #26
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God is the demiurge.

Creator of this flawed reality yes.

Probably created by our frightened thoughts as we die.

Also kept alive by our fear of God.

I would say existing on on our thoughts fears and ignorance of who we really are. We are spiritually regressing which is what these entities also feed from as they themselves cannot return to the oneness where the true realms are, they need this energy to be kept alive
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Old 06-06-2016, 10:05 PM   #27
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Old 06-06-2016, 10:37 PM   #28
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The problem is that you try to translate metaphors and allegories of a series of myths into reality. Forget the myth and look into reality: engage yourself in paleontology, archeology, physics, psychology, sociology... Expand your field of interest (go without) then reflect on your own biology and psychology (go within), and you will begin to understand the whole world and your place in the world.
Not at all, would you care to explain the vision and the explanation that can be found in Da:7 and Re:17??
When you can see the Bible as being a singular document then you are beginning to comprehend the book as it was intended to be read.
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Old 06-06-2016, 10:42 PM   #29
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We can, perhaps, conceive of a world in which God corrected the results of this abuse of free will by His creatures at every moment: so that a wooden beam became soft as grass when it was used as a weapon, and the air refused to obey me if I attempted to set up in it the sound waves that carry lies or insults. But such a world would be one in which wrong actions were impossible, and in which, therefore, freedom of the will would be void; nay, if the principle were carried out to its logical conclusion, evil thoughts would be impossible, for the cerebral matter which we use in thinking would refuse its task when we attempted to frame them.
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Old 06-06-2016, 10:48 PM   #30
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Then your God is able but not willing.

Which also looks suspiciously similar to non-existent.
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The amount of energy needed to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it.

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Old 06-06-2016, 10:49 PM   #31
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Then your God is able but not willing.
not willing to take away our ability to choose.
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Old 06-06-2016, 10:49 PM   #32
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As ex-sheep has touched upon already, the 'god(s)' we're most familiar with, in terms of the religious deities, are not what you might call the Supreme Creator- the Original Source- the 'Real Deal'.

In relative terms, they would appear as a 'god', much as a human might appear as a god to a Petri dish of bacteria. Again, this starts to make a lot more sense once you appreciate the fractal nature of reality- 'god' is relative.

That's where the Gnostics (and other earlier 'religious' sects), most likely had it right- that the notion of 'god' was all backwards- and that probably helps to explain why there was such a concerted effort throughout history to rid the world of these teachings. We also have the Sumerian tablets, which provide further veracity to these original teachings- before everything was inverted and manipulated in order to suit the agendas of the time.

The Gnostics spoke of the 'matrix'- that we are trapped souls living under the veil of delusion- some of whom are still imbued with a 'divine spark' which awakens us to the truth of our reality. The essence of this divine spark arising from, and connected to, that which exists beyond the material realm, or matrix.

So that's where the Bible (and similar religious texts) becomes deliberately confusing- because it mixes up the messages- the true teachings. It corrupts the original spiritual messages and replaces them with a duty of worship towards a false god- the 'god(s)' who visited our planet in times past, as detailed in the Sumerian texts and elsewhere.

It really has been quite the mind-fuck. Relative to ourselves, these 'archons' operating under the demiurge (the Grand Architect) are indeed as 'gods'. However, taken as a whole, we start to realise that we live in a closed system- energy is neither created nor destroyed- rather it transforms from one form to another. Just as we require energy from consuming plants and animals (there is no way around this!), so too do they gain sustenance from consuming other energetic lifeforms... Us. Fractals- 'As Above, So Below'. Hence the need for all of the deception, the 'reincarnation traps' and so on... Recycling every last drop of energy within the system- but in what direction is that energy flowing? And how do we escape the 'system'?

Please stop and ponder these questions:

Why is it that so much time, effort and resources have been spent in creating an incredibly vast and intricate web of deceit?

Why is it necessary for so many elites to operate in secrecy and hide their activities from public view? Why do they keep us distracted by creating false religions and secret societies to foment war and chaos?

The answer is quite simple- Because they don't want us to know what they are doing and how they are doing it. If they could accomplish their goals without secrecy, wouldn't they just be open about it? If they wanted to just wipe us out, why haven't they just done so?

The truth is that what they fear most of all is the TRUTH. Truth exposes the lies. Truth exposes the deception. The matrix dissolves in relation to the extent that the truth is revealed.

And the truth of the matter is that we are all very powerful spiritual beings. We are gods. They can only try to prevent us from knowing the truth about who we really are. That's all they've got- and a damn good job they've been doing of it, too. That is the truth that they do not want us to know. Why else would they spend thousands of years oppressing us and keeping us in spiritual darkness?

When the truth has been so elaborately hidden, you've got to ask yourself what that 'truth' might be, to make it so deserving of all of these deceptions. If the truth was straight-up fair dinkum- why all of the lies? Why was the vast library of Alexandria torched? Why were the Cathars slaughtered, all of their works confiscated or burned- nothing survived!! Their whole philosophy was wiped out, and would have remained so, had it not been for the recent discovery of the Nag Hammadi scriptures. Why has the Vatican routinely sequestered away anything that might be considered damaging to the status quo? Why have the pyramids of ancient Egypt and elsewhere never been adequately explored? Why is there so much resistance to 'alternative' theories? Why have important archaeological findings including but not limited to numerous elongated skulls, 'giant' skeletons and 'out of place artefacts' never been openly discussed? Why are many hidden away in museum basements??

Why is the truth being so blatantly hidden from us?

Just a few things to think about...

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Old 06-06-2016, 11:07 PM   #33
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not willing to take away our ability to choose.
As I said, your God is able but not willing.
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Being religious is like being in an abusive relationship. God says - obey me: don't love anyone else: I know what you're thinking: if you leave me I will punish you: you're a terrible person without me: you'll never find anyone as good as me: don't listen to anyone who doesn't understand us: of course I love you!

The amount of energy needed to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it.
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Old 06-06-2016, 11:13 PM   #34
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As I said, your God is able but not willing.
you prefer that freedom of the will be removed then?
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Old 06-06-2016, 11:20 PM   #35
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Not at all, would you care to explain the vision and the explanation that can be found in Da:7 and Re:17??
When you can see the Bible as being a singular document then you are beginning to comprehend the book as it was intended to be read.
Astrotheology
The four beasts = the four fixed signs of the zodiac
Revelation = the process of individuation, as making the unconscious conscious
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Old 06-06-2016, 11:24 PM   #36
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you prefer that freedom of the will be removed then?
But the isn't the only alternative, it could simply be that your God doesn't actually exist and you're arguing a black and white fallacy by cherry picking my earlier post apart to pretend this is the only alternative.

But you'd never do anything like that so I must be mistaken...
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Being religious is like being in an abusive relationship. God says - obey me: don't love anyone else: I know what you're thinking: if you leave me I will punish you: you're a terrible person without me: you'll never find anyone as good as me: don't listen to anyone who doesn't understand us: of course I love you!

The amount of energy needed to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it.
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Old 06-06-2016, 11:29 PM   #37
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Old 07-06-2016, 01:18 AM   #38
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Astrotheology
The four beasts = the four fixed signs of the zodiac
Revelation = the process of individuation, as making the unconscious conscious
I was hoping for an explanation of the explanations using your version. That should be able to be done for the Da:2 explanation as well.

The vision and explanation is only for the 4th beast and the Re:17 one also applies and it puts that reign as being the whole of the iron/clay realm. (Da:11)

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As I said, your God is able but not willing.
Why would He alter prophecy to satisfy your desires?

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Old 07-06-2016, 01:50 AM   #39
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Why would He alter prophecy to satisfy your desires?
It has nothing to do with satisfying my desires, I was simply pointing out where your God falls in epicurus' problem of evil.
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Being religious is like being in an abusive relationship. God says - obey me: don't love anyone else: I know what you're thinking: if you leave me I will punish you: you're a terrible person without me: you'll never find anyone as good as me: don't listen to anyone who doesn't understand us: of course I love you!

The amount of energy needed to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it.
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Old 07-06-2016, 05:33 AM   #40
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Your average Christian, Jew, and Muslim, knows that God isn't a man/woman, they DONT personify god, as many believe. That is those who seek to attack any religion based on ignorance of other peoples belief systems. People judge other's based on what they've been told, not on what they really know through personal experience.

Yet, here you have people doing exactly what they accuses other's of doing.


LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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