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Old 30-07-2012, 08:12 PM   #981
_z3n_
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Originally Posted by noncooperation View Post
Interesting you missed this part out completely!

quote plam:
"One form of life depends on another form of life
That's how it works, why can't you people see that?
Oh, I know why, because you think you're special
you're playing gods, you're self-delusional - that's all."
It's all projecting, except the first sentence, which is obvious and with which I agree.
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Old 30-07-2012, 08:20 PM   #982
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If it is better for humans to only eat plants, then why do we have the teeth for eating meat?

Do we have the teeth for eating meat?Can you show me exactly how you find that we have the teeth for eating meat?I'll show you why we don't:
Herbivores (like the cow) have 24 molars, eight jagged incisors in the lower jawand a horny palate in the upper jaw. Their jaws move vertically, laterally,forward, and backward, enabling the herbivore to tear and grind coarsegrasses.
Omnivores (like the hog) can have tusk-like canines allowing them to dig uproots.
Frugivores (like the chimpanzee) have 32 teeth: sixteen in each jaw includingfour incisors, two cuspids, four bicuspids, and six molars. The cuspids areadapted for cracking nuts, and the uniform articulation of the teeth enables thefrugivore to mash and grind fruits.

p.s.Conslusion is we are frugivores.
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Last edited by saty; 30-07-2012 at 08:22 PM.
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Old 30-07-2012, 08:47 PM   #983
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Originally Posted by saty View Post
If it is better for humans to only eat plants, then why do we have the teeth for eating meat?

Do we have the teeth for eating meat?Can you show me exactly how you find that we have the teeth for eating meat?I'll show you why we don't:
Herbivores (like the cow) have 24 molars, eight jagged incisors in the lower jawand a horny palate in the upper jaw. Their jaws move vertically, laterally,forward, and backward, enabling the herbivore to tear and grind coarsegrasses.
Omnivores (like the hog) can have tusk-like canines allowing them to dig uproots.
Frugivores (like the chimpanzee) have 32 teeth: sixteen in each jaw includingfour incisors, two cuspids, four bicuspids, and six molars. The cuspids areadapted for cracking nuts, and the uniform articulation of the teeth enables thefrugivore to mash and grind fruits.

p.s.Conslusion is we are frugivores.
You cannot define a creatures diet purely by it's teeth (e.g. foxes eat loads of wild plants & fruit, cats & dogs eat grass etc.).

This is a good example where much of modern science and it's techniques are misleading. A lot of archaeological work is very misleading for these reasons.
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Old 30-07-2012, 09:06 PM   #984
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You cannot define a creatures diet purely by it's teeth (e.g. foxes eat loads of wild plants & fruit, cats & dogs eat grass etc.).
.
I don't think that's really true. I'd say that generally teeth are very indicative of diet. After all, they are there for eating. Some creatures might have specialized teeth for pulling or digging, but that doesn't seem to be what you're talking about. Foxes are omnivores like dogs and bears, and have similar teeth.
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Old 30-07-2012, 09:15 PM   #985
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Originally Posted by _z3n_ View Post
The beauty of human consciousness is the ability to make a choice. That is what defines what we are. Existence is not some amorphous blob of soup, it is interconnected but has distinct inflections of which we are one, and lightning is another.

We have favoritism for a reason. It is the product of opinion, or personal choice; the result of some sort of understanding. Without this there would be no purpose for consciousness.
There is no such thing as personal choice.
When you make a choice it is based on what you know.
What you know comes from outside.
Anything you know comes from outside.

It is not your choice, it is what you were taught to choose.
The same applies for what you call consciousness.
It is just your knowledge and memory of what you know.

Ever wondered why we are born without the sense of self-awareness?
Kids develop it in their second year.
Do you think the baby makes a choice?
The baby learns to do it after he has been inflicted
with knowledge and self-awareness.

Last edited by plam; 30-07-2012 at 09:16 PM.
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Old 30-07-2012, 09:16 PM   #986
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Originally Posted by saty View Post
If it is better for humans to only eat plants, then why do we have the teeth for eating meat?

Do we have the teeth for eating meat?Can you show me exactly how you find that we have the teeth for eating meat?I'll show you why we don't:
Herbivores (like the cow) have 24 molars, eight jagged incisors in the lower jawand a horny palate in the upper jaw. Their jaws move vertically, laterally,forward, and backward, enabling the herbivore to tear and grind coarsegrasses.
Omnivores (like the hog) can have tusk-like canines allowing them to dig uproots.
Frugivores (like the chimpanzee) have 32 teeth: sixteen in each jaw includingfour incisors, two cuspids, four bicuspids, and six molars. The cuspids areadapted for cracking nuts, and the uniform articulation of the teeth enables thefrugivore to mash and grind fruits.

p.s.Conslusion is we are frugivores.

Add to this the length of our intestines.
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Old 30-07-2012, 09:23 PM   #987
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Originally Posted by plam View Post
There is no such thing as personal choice.
When you make a choice it is based on what you know.
What you know comes from outside.
Anything you know comes from outside.

It is not your choice, it is what you were taught to choose.
The same applies for what you call consciousness.
It is just your knowledge and memory of what you know.

Ever wondered why we are born without the sense of self-awareness?
Kids develop it in their second year.
Do you think the baby makes a choice?
The baby learns to do it after he has been inflicted
with knowledge and self-awareness.
I don't agree with this.. it doesn't make sense to me. How could consciousness ever evolve without the ability to choose? How could our universe have been created? It seems that, for something new to arise, a choice has to be made. Everything can't be a regurgitation of the past, can it? What was there originally, if not nothing? Consciousness had to have an original thought for existence to begin.

I agree that much of our action is based on conditioning and repetition of learned behaviors, but it must also be possible to produce thought that is original.
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Old 30-07-2012, 09:30 PM   #988
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Originally Posted by plam View Post
There is no such thing as personal choice.
When you make a choice it is based on what you know.
What you know comes from outside.
Anything you know comes from outside.

It is not your choice, it is what you were taught to choose.
The same applies for what you call consciousness.
It is just your knowledge and memory of what you know.

Ever wondered why we are born without the sense of self-awareness?
Kids develop it in their second year.
Do you think the baby makes a choice?
The baby learns to do it after he has been inflicted
with knowledge and self-awareness.
Are you a computer? You posted this almost word for word on a thread about the pineal gland
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Old 30-07-2012, 09:36 PM   #989
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Originally Posted by _z3n_ View Post
I don't think that's really true. I'd say that generally teeth are very indicative of diet. After all, they are there for eating. Some creatures might have specialized teeth for pulling or digging, but that doesn't seem to be what you're talking about. Foxes are omnivores like dogs and bears, and have similar teeth.
I believe we were designed/created by aliens, not that long ago, therefore not much time for evolutionary change, we have a type of multipurpose type teeth good for all materials except tough raw meat.
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Old 30-07-2012, 09:38 PM   #990
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Originally Posted by _z3n_ View Post
I don't agree with this.. it doesn't make sense to me. How could consciousness ever evolve without the ability to choose? How could our universe have been created? It seems that, for something new to arise, a choice has to be made. Everything can't be a regurgitation of the past, can it? What was there originally, if not nothing? Consciousness had to have an original thought for existence to begin.

I agree that much of our action is based on conditioning and repetition of learned behaviors, but it must also be possible to produce thought that is original.
The universe was not created
It has no beginning, nor end.
Existence is continuous flow without direction
Think fractals.

It is your thinking structure that likes to put things in frames.
There is no beginning and there's no such thing as new.
You only compare the so called new with the old.
There's no new without the old.
So how can you experience something new
if you need the old to compare it and call it new.

If you can experience something new
it will have to be experienced without the old
but you can't do that.
Because there's nothing new under the sun.
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Old 30-07-2012, 09:41 PM   #991
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Originally Posted by _z3n_ View Post
I don't agree with this.. it doesn't make sense to me. How could consciousness ever evolve without the ability to choose? How could our universe have been created? It seems that, for something new to arise, a choice has to be made. Everything can't be a regurgitation of the past, can it? What was there originally, if not nothing? Consciousness had to have an original thought for existence to begin.

I agree that much of our action is based on conditioning and repetition of learned behaviors, but it must also be possible to produce thought that is original.
I think there is a point to be made that we are fed so much misinformtion & bad knowledge even before we have a consciousness of our own to realise this.

So when we start choosing things for ourselves it's based on others bad misinfo from previous generations.
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Old 30-07-2012, 09:53 PM   #992
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Originally Posted by noncooperation View Post
I believe we were designed/created by aliens, not that long ago, therefore not much time for evolutionary change, we have a type of multipurpose type teeth good for all materials except tough raw meat.
We may have been designed by aliens, but our design should still be appropriate for our diet. Unless they arbitrarily said, "you are supposed to eat xxx" even though they designed us to eat something else.
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Old 30-07-2012, 10:04 PM   #993
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Humans and other animals don't produce the lactase. Bacteria does.

There's lactase in the milk because the bacteria produce lactase.

People who are "lactose intolerant" just need more of the bacteria in them.

Letting the milk culture a bit before you consume it will do this overtime.

Most of our digestion is bacterial. Most humans are lacking bacteria in general.

Dairy is just another way of getting raw animal fats and proteins. If you are eating raw eggs and raw meat, you don't NEED milk, but there's nothing wrong with consuming it, and it builds up bacteria faster than eggs or meat. It's how I cured myself of disease. It's how many others could cure themselves if they didn't have people like you and mainstream scientists spreading bad information.
I too believe that the bacteria decides our state of health as it were.
If humans wern't shy about discussing the form of their turds we could all self diagnose our state of health from our turds. If they are not formed good, don't slide good your bacteria level is not good.
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There 'should be' 1000's of REAL, high quality photograph's of earth from space/moon all over the internet - WHERE ARE THEY?!

Last edited by noncooperation; 30-07-2012 at 10:05 PM.
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Old 30-07-2012, 10:05 PM   #994
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Originally Posted by plam View Post
The universe was not created
It has no beginning, nor end.
I think that the universe was created consciously, just as our earth was created consciously. I believe it's also possible that there are other universes, and that ours will one day end.

Quote:
Originally Posted by plam View Post
You only compare the so called new with the old.
There's no new without the old.
So how can you experience something new
if you need the old to compare it and call it new.

If you can experience something new
it will have to be experienced without the old
but you can't do that.
Because there's nothing new under the sun.
I think you are confusing the word "new" for the concept of what I mean. Of course there has to be old in order for the word "new" to make sense. There are new things, just as there are old things which cause the new things to be called "new". But how do you conclude that every new thing is merely a repetition of old things?

Last edited by _z3n_; 30-07-2012 at 10:06 PM.
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Old 30-07-2012, 11:02 PM   #995
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There is no difference at all.
Things in nature happen randomly.
The lightning could strike on the camel and on the lettuce.
You obviously don't understand the question. Let's rephrase it: Would you rather that your children saw a living lettuce or a living camel cut in half? If there is no difference, you shouldn't care at all and shouldn't care if they cut a camel in half because, one day, they will cut a lettuce in half - as you have probably done. If you haven't cut a lettuce in half, you have most likely cut some plant body in half. Would you feel as unconcerned if you cut a living camel in half?
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Old 30-07-2012, 11:35 PM   #996
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All of your perspectives are correct; All of you.
Your opinions may sound contradicting,
but they are truly not so different.

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Old 31-07-2012, 09:11 AM   #997
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You obviously don't understand the question. Let's rephrase it: Would you rather that your children saw a living lettuce or a living camel cut in half? If there is no difference, you shouldn't care at all and shouldn't care if they cut a camel in half because, one day, they will cut a lettuce in half - as you have probably done. If you haven't cut a lettuce in half, you have most likely cut some plant body in half. Would you feel as unconcerned if you cut a living camel in half?
It has no difference.
Who am I to decide what's more important?

Favouritism causes division
Division causes conflict
Conflict causes suffering
Suffering causes bitterness
Bitterness causes favouritism.

Don't get me wrong,
I'm not trying to make you change your mind
I don't care how you fool yourself,
what illusions you choose to believe in
I don't care whether you live or die in result of the way you live
If you're a healthy vegan, congratulations
If you're unhealthy vegan, congratulations again!

------------

I only argue with you lot here
to show you that there is no such thing as truth!
To want to understand exactly how the body work
is to want to control it.
The mind is already interfering too much with the body.
The body is perfect it knows exactly what it needs
Nothing more, nothing less.

Health is the battle between body and mind.

Last edited by plam; 31-07-2012 at 09:20 AM.
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Old 31-07-2012, 10:03 AM   #998
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lightning bolts with lettuce and camels .....oh dear
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Old 31-07-2012, 10:31 AM   #999
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lightning bolts with lettuce and camels .....oh dear
Sounds like a good name for a pub
The lettuce and the camels
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Old 31-07-2012, 03:40 PM   #1000
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Originally Posted by plam View Post
It has no difference.
Who am I to decide what's more important?

Favouritism causes division
I take it that you favour your family over other people? Especially if it came to deciding who should be cut in half. If so, would you rather cut a living camel or a living leek in half?
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