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Old 01-09-2016, 01:11 PM   #21
paddy_blake
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Sometimes I'm in awe of the beauty and terror (sublimity) of the matrix. It's a perfect system of balance, it is self-correcting. You can't change it without there being an equal and opposite force manifesting so as to return it to balance.
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Old 01-09-2016, 01:18 PM   #22
the apprentice
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Here in the Yorkshire Dales the community spirit is still much alive, the population not that much larger than just after the second world war, due in part to the planning strict rules on development.
The small allotment groups that have sprung up since the global warming paradigm took root are all on board with the UN's sustainability model, one candidate actually trying to tell me that villages are no longer sustainable, my reaction was, those areas have a very large proportion of land per head, which the farmers around could easily produce enough food for the local barter system if left to its own devices, which she really knew is a fact.

Barter is far far better than money in a crisis, especially if those doing the bartering are also the maker, once it involves a middle man to distribute any surplus does there involve any greed.

Anyone reading this will know that the current middle men or those selling the surplus from local craftsmen are asking for fouty percent return from the divisible goods and they also have to pay VAT on every items sold, this folks is not barter but controlled alternatives.

The best way to stay ahead of their game without involving the laws, is to use your skills for yourself, or show others pro bono how to do the same for themselves.

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Old 01-09-2016, 01:38 PM   #23
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It really is a sad state of affairs when people cannot come together without having the attitude of what's in it for me. I think this mentality goes back to the Thatcher years, the damage that woman did is still very evident today. You do right in speaking up when you see injustice or devious motives. I was in Tod a few weeks ago and it may have just been my perception but things seem to have quietened down with regard to pushing the community spirit. We all need to break out of this systems mentality and have an attitude of, what can I personally do to help others? I don't think this is a one way street though, because once you do get into that mind set then things will come back to you in a positive way.
It has come back in many positive ways for us. About ten years ago when I was still in the mechanical area, I would help all the neigbours by changing their cars cam belts or repairing their head gaskets to taking their kids with ours for walks up the mountainsin the Lake District, as you do.
I ever ran an international apprentice program for teaching specialized crafts and got students from all over Britain and the globe, all done on a shoestring but very successful indeed.
This is whyI know that skills is where the savings are at, not profits but savings, this is what Ubuntu is doing in South Africa and is really flourishing.

You see you can throw as much money at an idea and it will llikely fail if there are no skilled teachers or makers of things involved.

We were invited once by a commune in Wales who wanted many thousands from us to secure a room in their five bedroom farm house to get things going, I offered thirty years of skills and a workshop worth four times the deposit, they turned me down and eventually failed and went bust to the bank.

So you see, without real life skills your hardly going to survive when the money runs out and the skilless governors produce nothing while thinking about it.

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Old 01-09-2016, 01:40 PM   #24
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A barter system is an old method of exchange. This system has been used for centuries and long before money was invented. People exchanged services and goods for other services and goods in return.

Due to lack of money, bartering became popular in the 1930s during the Great Depression. It was used to obtain food and various other services. It was done through groups or between people who acted similar to banks. If any items were sold, the owner would receive credit and the buyer's account would be debited.

Within the system in which we live today money is god, but does it have to be that way?

Could a whole new system be founded on bartering? I live not far from the village of Todmorden where the locals plant veggies in communal spaces and are free for people to share. Small initiatives such as this is a good starting place I feel.
Barter is good, but how do you convert and compare?

This is where I fell money is better.

The only problem with money, is fucking fractional reserve lending - making money off of money - which results in unnecessary inflation, reducing the value of money annually.

If it wasn't for fractional reserve lending, money would work fine...
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Old 01-09-2016, 01:52 PM   #25
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Barter is good, but how do you convert and compare?

This is where I fell money is better.

The only problem with money, is fucking fractional reserve lending - making money off of money - which results in unnecessary inflation, reducing the value of money annually.

If it wasn't for fractional reserve lending, money would work fine...
The fractional reserve system cannot survive in a truly skilled nation full of useful or hands on people, the Amish are only one who do not use money, but a plethora of different skills in a hive like organisation, yes they do have rules like any other system; But did you know that the price for a wooden wheel barrow is the same today as it was in 1880, here is the key factor which prevents scenarios like inflation and any kind of reserve from taking hold.
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Old 01-09-2016, 01:52 PM   #26
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But the problem is with trust. And that's why the banking system has succeeded. People can't trust each other, and guess what, the banking system makes sure that continues.
I agree, you could not trust anyone, even if you swapped over items, or goods at same time, the trust would be low, as you never know what con people are trying pull.

The banking system works, and money, as its enforced.
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Old 01-09-2016, 03:44 PM   #27
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Small groups already do barter though...
This weekend my friend will be gettin 20 off paving slabs from me in return for cutting my high hedges with his long reach hedge cutters.....I dont have any of those
+1
Barter works well already on a small informal scale amongst neighbours.
I'll swap you some eggs for some tomatoes - you help me put up this shed I'll help you tidy your garden.
Setting barter up as a 'system' though might overcomplicate it. You could end up with people administering it. That tends to happen once you have a committee or similar. Then you can get problems.
"If something aint broke.. Why try to fix it?

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Old 01-09-2016, 04:40 PM   #28
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The Gvt don't like barter system because they can not tax it.

"I see you have got a fishing rod, how about I put you a shower in and you catch me a trout?"

Gvt bod: "Did you declare that trout sir?"

"My dog ate that trout!"

"Is your dog tax deductable?"

"No, he is a pit bull!"

"That will be £1000 for not declaring your dog and £1000 for not declaring his dinner then, sir. How would you like to pay, through the nose or up tha bum?"
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Old 01-09-2016, 05:20 PM   #29
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+1
Barter works well already on a small informal scale amongst neighbours.
I'll swap you some eggs for some tomatoes - you help me put up this shed I'll help you tidy your garden.
Setting barter up as a 'system' though might overcomplicate it. You could end up with people administering it. That tends to happen once you have a committee or similar. Then you can get problems.
"If something aint broke.. Why try to fix it?
I will fox your card head gasket for the three ton of coal you got.
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Old 02-09-2016, 12:07 PM   #30
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I will fox your card head gasket for the three ton of coal you got.
Coal is spoken for but remains uncollected.
Probs come round before the cold weather sets in.
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Old 02-09-2016, 12:31 PM   #31
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The Gvt don't like barter system because they can not tax it.

"I see you have got a fishing rod, how about I put you a shower in and you catch me a trout?"

Gvt bod: "Did you declare that trout sir?"

"My dog ate that trout!"

"Is your dog tax deductable?"

"No, he is a pit bull!"

"That will be £1000 for not declaring your dog and £1000 for not declaring his dinner then, sir. How would you like to pay, through the nose or up tha bum?"
The system does tax the self generating or self sufficiency of the paradigm, what the state did to manoeuvre around this was to bring in a value added tax on everything one needs to make anything with, IE, raw materials.
This is part and parcel of the eventual austerity that was planned even before our industrial revolution began, it is Malthusian in nature, to begin culling off those who have the alternative skills that could prop up the economy using grass route cottage type industries, that once supported the paradigm almost entirely.
The powers that be are also closing down the recycling opportunities by stipulating that skips must be fenced off or netted over to prevent skip rats like mysf helping themselves to useful items to recycle, same at council or contracted units where theft is the result of taking anything that comes into what are now private CCTV compounds.
Further signs of what is to come can be witnesses in the now closing service economy, yet the wolves in sheep's clothing are also making a killing out of the killing by forcing further legislation in the form of licencing our basic industries on the onus of safety and security from Corgi, Hetas, CSI and many more labels.
What we have is a Fabian like and Communist body that is slow, determined and very deliberate in its actions, as they take down and weaken every resolve, in a Fabius Maximums kind of way.

And let me says as a skilled alternative craftsman, no avenue or stone will be left unturned nor disturbed as this global weakening and totalitarianism rolls forward.

My advice is, grab those skills like their is no tomorrow.

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Old 02-09-2016, 12:41 PM   #32
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Tax is morally wrong. But until the masses understand this, among other things, the system will continue.
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Old 25-10-2016, 09:13 PM   #33
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The last weekend gave a good scrumping day, dozens turned up and brought their spare apples which kept coming all afternoon.

The afternoon though about four gallon of pure juice, two of which are fermenting away like ticking time bombs. Pop pop from the water traps.

The shredding machine I made a week or so ago worked a treat, a full hopper shredded in about a minute and we still have another dustbin full of cheeses to press and the same again twice to prepare, all of which would have been left to rot away. The total will probably be near half a ton pf apples in total.

We are getting on average about 2 gallon for sixty pounds of apples.
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Old 26-10-2016, 09:17 AM   #34
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as well as barter there is the 'gift economy', which works in the countryside of Britain a lot where people do favours for each other all the time:

A gift economy, gift culture, or gift exchange is a mode of exchange where valuables are not traded or sold, but rather given without an explicit agreement for immediate or future rewards.[1] This contrasts with a barter economy or a market economy, where goods and services are primarily exchanged for value received. Social norms and custom govern gift exchange. Gifts are not given in an explicit exchange of goods or services for money or some other commodity.[2]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gift_economy
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Old 26-10-2016, 10:22 AM   #35
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The liber free is the big sister to the barter system and also one and the same model for any surpluses that would depreciate after they are made, these surpluses cannot keep for longer periods so are better given away to those who one could expect the same reciprocation at a later date, but not wholy relied upon, then dissapointment cometh not.

I had a hand made pair of shoes sitting in the store for a couple of years and gave them to someone who had helped me in the past so its still a form of barter but not immediate, barter without any firm stipulations or firm agreements.

The very best form of barter by far is knowledge and skills, because the benefactor builds the levels to where they deem it necessary to get what they need.

The skills paradigm will be severely curtailed once the electronic money comes on line.

What TPTB are already doing is electronic money trials where the benefactor is given a set amount every month which they have to use up and cannot accumulate any surplus and roll it over into a new month.

What people dont realize is, there will be stipulations on what they will be forced to do for this credits for living I call it and where the NWO will slam down upon those grafted into such a system.

Thus devoid of real life skills will mean no life to ones self.



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Originally Posted by iamawaveofthesea View Post
as well as barter there is the 'gift economy', which works in the countryside of Britain a lot where people do favours for each other all the time:

A gift economy, gift culture, or gift exchange is a mode of exchange where valuables are not traded or sold, but rather given without an explicit agreement for immediate or future rewards.[1] This contrasts with a barter economy or a market economy, where goods and services are primarily exchanged for value received. Social norms and custom govern gift exchange. Gifts are not given in an explicit exchange of goods or services for money or some other commodity.[2]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gift_economy

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Old 26-10-2016, 11:55 AM   #36
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Thing is with barter it will always evolve into trading the easiest most practical thing to trade.. money, not credit but precious metals..

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Old 26-10-2016, 02:12 PM   #37
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Thing is with barter it will always evolve into trading the easiest most practical thing to trade.. money, not credit but precious metals..
Gold and silver are good for long term investments and are better than bonds even, but to the trader of raw materials, these are as good as money.

Gold carries a heavy burden and is open to theft especially in today's corrupt and failing system with governments in perpetual confiscation mode.

Materials are useless to anyone for stealing, unless they have the skills to convert them into a useful commodity.

If we rapidly move into a single world everything, I think the eventual rulers will make it illegal to own precious metals anyway.

I say get as many skills as possible and use them as ones own survival engine, then one creates what you need instead of hoarding.

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Old 26-10-2016, 02:39 PM   #38
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Gold and silver are good for long term investments and are better than bonds even, but to the trader of raw materials, these are as good as money.

Gold carries a heavy burden and is open to theft especially in today's corrupt and failing system with governments in perpetual confiscation mode.

Materials are useless to anyone for stealing, unless they have the skills to convert them into a useful commodity.

If we rapidly move into a single world everything, I think the eventual rulers will make it illegal to own precious metals anyway.

I say get as many skills as possible and use them as ones own survival engine, then one creates what you need instead of hoarding.
All true enough, but one of the qualities of Gold is it takes up very little space, doesn't smell and doesn't go off, so very good for hiding from thieving bastards like government..
Of course skills are best though, like today i helped changing a gearbox for a lad and got paid in weed, illegal, the gov can steal it, not so easy to hide though, it smells, goes of and in theory could very easily be devalued so difficult and not safe to put away for a rainy day..I would of preferred metals as i have responsibilities to feed my family and life has proven time and time again its best to have that something put away, but i am very happy with the weed, it was good and a fair measure

And better karma at the end of the day in dealing in fiat..

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Old 26-10-2016, 03:54 PM   #39
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All true enough, but one of the qualities of Gold is it takes up very little space, doesn't smell and doesn't go off, so very good for hiding from thieving bastards like government..
Of course skills are best though, like today i helped changing a gearbox for a lad and got paid in weed, illegal, the gov can steal it, not so easy to hide though, it smells, goes of and in theory could very easily be devalued so difficult and not safe to put away for a rainy day..I would of preferred metals as i have responsibilities to feed my family and life has proven time and time again its best to have that something put away, but i am very happy with the weed, it was good and a fair measure

And better karma at the end of the day in dealing in fiat..
I wouldn't bother hiding anything from government H2, why give them a chance to persecute us any further.

But they do have very good metal detectors these days.

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Old 26-10-2016, 05:39 PM   #40
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I wouldn't bother hiding anything from government H2, why give them a chance to persecute us any further.

But they do have very good metal detectors these days.

Government... govern to control, ment - mind..
government = To control the mind = mind control

Persecution or death, i have no choice...

Best place to hide things is where they wont look.

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