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Old 27-11-2014, 04:37 PM   #481
jack tripper
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Originally Posted by rapunzel View Post
The Elite, and by that I assume you mean those at the top who were mainly the aristocracy. did not own factories. They owned land. And I never mentioned ‘merchant bankers’ just ‘merchants’.



You are going over the top now and regurgitating Marxist piffle. I assume you are referring to the Enclosures which did not ‘kick peasants off their land’ at all. It was common land that was enclosed and although the Enclosures may seem on the face of it to be unfair, in the long run it was a good thing because it enabled the owners to institute good modern farming practices and crop yields and livestock output increased dramatically. Previously all this common land had been good for was subsistence farming which kept the workers at poverty level

My offer of supplying the names of some good history books still stands as you seem in dire need of them.

Many of the workers in the new factories were not “dispossessed peasants” but were people who had traditionally carried out crafts in the home such as weaving, spinning etc. They were undercut by the new factories so it was no longer profitable for them to carry on their work and they moved to work in the factories.



Oh dear just ]what have you been reading?? You don’t have the foggiest idea do you.? The Corn Laws imposed tariffs on imported grain thus making it more expensive and thus bread was expensive. This suited the land owning aristocracy because it meant they could sell their grain without any competition for a high price. The Corn Law was repealed in 1846. and Britain began to depend more and more on imported grain. Which is preferable – use only home grown grain, keeping prices high, people employed but making bread very expensive or import cheaper corn, throwing some people out of work but bringing down the price of bread.?

Get your facts right in future. I don’t think anyone understands what you mean by

“And even Rothschild got the Corn Law in, which effectively undersold everyone”

The Industrial Revolution and everything that went with it is not an easy subject to discuss on a Forum like this as it's far too complex.
Yeah that's not how it went down at all. You seem to be under the impression that the history you spoonfeed into the classrooms from textbooks pushed down from those at the top is somehow all there is to know, and anybody who dares to question these things or tell you the truths behind it all is spewing nonsense. Perhaps you should try reading some proper history and not sanctioned history.

'Some people out of work'? It is a fact that MILLIONS of people during the industrial era across Europe were FORCED off their land and pressurized into the cities, because the big bankers who ran the merchant systems had dumped corn and crops from other countries on each country. The Corn Laws were part of the laws they passed that allowed it to happen, and it's just supposed to be a coincidence, with all this cheap corn coming in, that all the little farmers suddenly go out of business, straight into the already built, and ready to receive factories? Get real. Do you believe things happen by chance in an economic system?

You even just said it right there, they were undercut by these new factories. However, you make it sound like they had a choice. They had no choice. Go to the factories or starve?
Quote:
Get your facts right in future. I don’t think anyone understands what you mean by

“And even Rothschild got the Corn Law in, which effectively undersold everyone”
What's so hard to understand? It was Rothschild that passed the Corn Laws Act in parliament that put all the small landowners out of business, making it impossible for them NOT to go into the factories, in the cities where they wanted them. This was forced industrialism.

What history books do want me to read?
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Old 29-11-2014, 06:42 PM   #482
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Originally Posted by jack tripper View Post
Yeah that's not how it went down at all. You seem to be under the impression that the history you spoonfeed into the classrooms from textbooks pushed down from those at the top is somehow all there is to know, and anybody who dares to question these things or tell you the truths behind it all is spewing nonsense. Perhaps you should try reading some proper history and not sanctioned history.
You are assuming that all I know about history is what I learned at school. You would be wrong.

The one thing that puzzles me about those people who claim to have the true history is how they know what they claim to know. Do they have access to a secret cache of documents for instance? No-one can tell me so I have to assume that their true (sic) history is actually made up, i.e. invented to suit their agenda.

Unless you can show me differently.

Quote:
'Some people out of work'? It is a fact that MILLIONS of people during the industrial era across Europe were FORCED off their land and pressurized into the cities, because the big bankers who ran the merchant systems had dumped corn and crops from other countries on each country.
We are talking about the UK, England specifically and not the whole of Europe. Can you grasp that? So stop using the emotive ‘millions’ to make your point when your figure is false.

The ‘big bankers’ did not run the ‘merchant systems (whatever they are). Factories were owned by the up and coming middle classes whilst the aristocracy owned the land.

Quote:
The Corn Laws were part of the laws they passed that allowed it to happen, and it's just supposed to be a coincidence, with all this cheap corn coming in, that all the little farmers suddenly go out of business, straight into the already built, and ready to receive factories? Get real. Do you believe things happen by chance in an economic system?
The Corn Laws only applied to the UK and not Europe. You seem to think that the Corn Laws allowed cheap foreign grain to flood into the country. They did the exact opposite! They forbade the import of grain in order to keep the price of grain high in the UK and they were favoured by the landowning classes, including small farmers for obvious reasons.

Really what is the point of debating with you if you do not understand that simple fact.!

They were repealed in 1846 by the Tory Prime Minister Robert Peel in favour of free trade and this pleased the Industrialists who saw that cheaper grain meant cheaper bread and thus lower wages.

The Industrial Revolution started in 1760, well before the first Corn Law was passed in 1813 and thus they had little to do with the move from country to town which was well under way by that time.

Quote:
You even just said it right there, they were undercut by these new factories. However, you make it sound like they had a choice. They had no choice. Go to the factories or starve?
I said the home industry workers were undercut by the factories because mechanisation meant items could be produced quicker and more cheaply than hand made ones. That’s still the case now, even more so, which is why hand made articles are more expensive.

For many people it was a choice to go to the towns since they had more opportunities there. You could try reading the autobiography of Benjamin Shaw, a mill mechanic born in 1772.

“When the family moved from Dent in 1791 they were lured by the employment opportunities offered, especially for the children, at the recently-opened water-powered textile mill at Dolphinholme. “

http://www.evolve360.co.uk/data/10/docs/08/08crosby.pdf

Quote:
What's so hard to understand? It was Rothschild that passed the Corn Laws Act in parliament that put all the small landowners out of business, making it impossible for them NOT to go into the factories, in the cities where they wanted them. This was forced industrialism.
What I understand from your statement is that you are alarmingly ignorant of history. Why do you think that Rothschild had anything to do with the implementation of the Corn Laws? These Laws kept the price of home produced grain [B[ HIGH[/B] thereby BENEFITING the owners of farming land. How can you be ignorant of this?


For more info on the debate in Parliament on the Corn Laws google this Mirror Parliament Voulme 4 :

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=t...page&q&f=false

It is an extract of the Parliamentary Proceedings of 1840 and the Corn Laws are discussed from the bottom of page 3308 onwards.

So do you think it was the imposition or repeal of the Corn Laws that caused an exodus from the country to the towns?

Quote:
What history books do want me to read?
I’ve mentioned two above.

Here are some more:

Mills, P “The Growth of Britain’s Cities, 1700-1850” (Palgrave, 2000)

Farrar, S “When the Machines Came: Agricultural Revolutions” (Routledge & Kegan Paul, 1991)

Michaels, M “Town and Country: Charting the Demographic Changes” (Macmillan, 1998)
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Old 29-11-2014, 07:10 PM   #483
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Lightbulb Corn ot Cob

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Originally Posted by lightgiver View Post


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75LBLSn6zKo

In occupied France ,Nanette, a 14-year-old peasant girl collects an English aviator bruised and installs in secret from his parents, fierce Petain , in the attic of his farm.She quickly feel awake in her feelings still unknown, desire, love, in contact with this man, young, beautiful, who explains that the ideas she learned in school about the English and the Germans are false..And the days go by, happy. You almost forget that the war lasted four years already...



http://www.muriel-catala.com/sauveur-seq2.html

One day, the English decided to make contact with a group of resistance through Mr. Flouret. Nanette, accustomed to the presence of her man-toy, furious to see him away from her, denounced to the police. Then arises the improbable "English" appears to him in the uniform of the chief SS . As she remains stunned, "true-false German-English," says Nanette he used his love and his hatred of girl to rid the region of guerrillas , the resistance that he unwittingly delivered...



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lLs2dC9NaE

1971 September 1 – The pre-decimal penny and threepence ceased to be legal tender.
3 - John Lennon leaves UK for NYC, never to return - Qatar gains independence from the United Kingdom. Unlike most nearby emirates, Qatar declines to become part of either the United Arab Emirates or Saudi Arabia - Manlio Brosio resigns as NATO Secretary General.
4 – A Boeing 727 (Alaska Airlines Flight 1866) crashes into the side of a mountain near Juneau, Alaska, killing all 111 people on board.
7 – The death toll in The Troubles of Northern Ireland reached 100 after three years with the death of 14-year-old Annette McGavigan, who was fatally wounded by a gunshot in crossfire between British soldiers and the IRA.
8 – In Washington, DC, the John F. Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts is inaugurated, with the opening feature being the premiere of Leonard Bernstein's Mass.
9 - – British Ambassador Geoffrey Jackson was freed after being held captive for 8 months by extreme left-wing guerillas in Uruguay.
10 - KVUE TV channel 24 in Austin, TX (ABC) begins broadcasting
11 - "2 by 2" closes at Imperial Theater NYC after 343 performances - Egypt adopts its constitution - Laurel Lea Schaefer (Ohio), 22, crowned 44th Miss America 1972...


http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0195232/
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Sauveur
http://www.historyorb.com/events/date/1971/september
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showt...=196822&page=8In my dream the Lord did come to me, and He was a shape. It was He Who Walks Behind the Rows. And I did fall on my knees in terror, and hide my eyes, lest the fierceness of His face strike me dead! He told me all that has since happened; He said, "Joseph has taken his things and fled this happy place, because the worship of Me is no more upon him. So take you his life, and spill his blood, like water upon the earth! But let not the flesh pollute the corn; cast him instead upon the road!And He Who Walks Behind The Rows did say, "I will send outlanders amongst you: a man and a woman. And these outlanders will be unbelievers and profaners of the holy. And the man will sorely test you, for he has great power, even greater than that of the Blue Man!.. Corn-Children: The Blue Man! Yes, the Blue Man!..http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showp...&postcount=442

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Originally Posted by rapunzel View Post
The Corn Laws only applied to the UK and not Europe. You seem to think that the Corn Laws allowed cheap foreign grain to flood into the country. They did the exact opposite! They forbade the import of grain in order to keep the price of grain high in the UK and they were favoured by the landowning classes, including small farmers for obvious reasons..

Really what is the point of debating with you if you do not understand that simple fact.!


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annette_McGavigan
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showt...111364&page=18

Last edited by lightgiver; 29-11-2014 at 07:18 PM.
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Old 30-11-2014, 02:00 PM   #484
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It is not hard to understand at all, especially when one learns that the Rothschild's are really in charge of who makes and publishes their own ideas.
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Old 30-11-2014, 05:31 PM   #485
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Originally Posted by rapunzel View Post
We are talking about the UK, England specifically and not the whole of Europe. Can you grasp that? So stop using the emotive ‘millions’ to make your point when your figure is false.
Who says? I am talking about the whole industrial era, not just the UK, or just the Corn Laws.

Quote:
The ‘big bankers’ did not run the ‘merchant systems (whatever they are). Factories were owned by the up and coming middle classes whilst the aristocracy owned the land.
Well, just because we don't really hear 'merchant bankers' used much these days, it doesn't mean they were insignificant. These were the guys who owned the trading routes and the the shipping lines and all commerce, and they also set up the banks themselves, which were called merchant banks. These characters also had insurance companies and they put out loans and would take bets on ships coming in and out. Now these merchant bankers were the families that came in from Europe, mainly Frankfurt and they moved over to the other countries, Rothschild was one of them. Not your ordinary banks that go and withdraw some money out of. They dealt with literally massive trade all across the world. International trade. And these big banks in London were put in the Templar area there, of course with the giant obelisk right by the river, not by coincidence were they set up there. So I don't know why you find it so difficult to accept that the big bankers ran the money systems back then. These are big big players, they are not middle men.


Quote:
The Corn Laws only applied to the UK and not Europe. You seem to think that the Corn Laws allowed cheap foreign grain to flood into the country. They did the exact opposite! They forbade the import of grain in order to keep the price of grain high in the UK and they were favoured by the landowning classes, including small farmers for obvious reasons.

Really what is the point of debating with you if you do not understand that simple fact.!

They were repealed in 1846 by the Tory Prime Minister Robert Peel in favour of free trade and this pleased the Industrialists who saw that cheaper grain meant cheaper bread and thus lower wages.

The Industrial Revolution started in 1760, well before the first Corn Law was passed in 1813 and thus they had little to do with the move from country to town which was well under way by that time.

I said the home industry workers were undercut by the factories because mechanisation meant items could be produced quicker and more cheaply than hand made ones. That’s still the case now, even more so, which is why hand made articles are more expensive.

For many people it was a choice to go to the towns since they had more opportunities there. You could try reading the autobiography of Benjamin Shaw, a mill mechanic born in 1772.

“When the family moved from Dent in 1791 they were lured by the employment opportunities offered, especially for the children, at the recently-opened water-powered textile mill at Dolphinholme. “
It appears we have read some strikingly different history here! They needed all the small farmers out of the way in Britain, correct? So the Corn Laws were pushed in to allow foreign grain to be dumped on the British market to get rid of these small farmers. Then these 'red brick cities' appear, already thrown up and built, and they need to be occupied by new workers, so these farmers with no employment and no work were forced to work in them. Cities that became Manchester, Birmingham, Liverpool, etc, they were crammed in as cannon fodder. It can't have been a choice that many willingly made because If you remember the big horses and the carts they used during the plague to cart people off, these were used all throughout the Industrial Era in Britain to collect the dead every morning, they were all malnourished because they were paid such horrendous wages working a MINIMUM 16 hours a day! Now the small farmers would have been at least aware of this before they upped sticks. There's a reason that they say 'Merrie old England' never really existed.

And it's really still the same today, these big factory-type stores, massive stores they've put up across the planet keeps the small guys out of business. This was all planned and all done intentionally A small shop owner cannot compete. Being unable to buy in bulk and get the reduced prices on certain items so he goes under.



Quote:
These Laws kept the price of home produced grain [B[ HIGH[/B] thereby BENEFITING the owners of farming land. How can you be ignorant of this?
They did no such thing. The idea was to get all these cheap crops in massive quantities for much cheaper than they could get it in Britain, all the peasant farmers were kicked off their land and into the cities. The exact same thing financed and planned by the same families is still going on today, so why on earth would it be any different 200, 300 years ago?

Quote:
Why do you think that Rothschild had anything to do with the implementation of the Corn Laws?
Well it was Lord Rothschild himself once he got into the House of Lords, he put through the Corn Law act, and I don't agree with your synopsis that this act didn't allow cheap foreign grain to flood in but I will read what you have suggested there when I have time this week.

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Old 01-12-2014, 04:55 PM   #486
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Question Employment

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Originally Posted by super glue View Post
It is not hard to understand at all, especially when one learns that the Rothschild's are really in charge of who makes and publishes their own ideas.
Do they employ Anjem...

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Originally Posted by lightgiver View Post
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showp...&postcount=166
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Old 01-12-2014, 05:00 PM   #487
lightgiver
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Lightbulb Rich man's war. Poor man's fight.




Quote:
"Now is the time to rebel against this war with Germany,boys. Boys, get together and don't go..Rich man's war. Poor man's fight. The war is over with Germany if you don't go and J.P. Morgan & Co. is lost. Their great speculation is the only cause of the war..

Attaining a passable level of German within six months and also a degree in art history, Morgan traveled back to London via Wiesbaden, with his education complete..Morgan died in Rome, Italy, in his sleep in 1913 at the age of 75, leaving his fortune and business to his son, John Pierpont Morgan, Jr...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Corn_Rebellion
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showp...68&postcount=7

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Old 01-12-2014, 05:51 PM   #488
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Who says? I am talking about the whole industrial era, not just the UK, or just the Corn Laws.
When you refer to the Corn Laws you are referring to the UK. If you want to include the Industrialisation of the known world then you should say so.

Quote:
Well, just because we don't really hear 'merchant bankers' used much these days, it doesn't mean they were insignificant. These were the guys who owned the trading routes and the the shipping lines and all commerce, and they also set up the banks themselves, which were called merchant banks. These characters also had insurance companies and they put out loans and would take bets on ships coming in and out. Now these merchant bankers were the families that came in from Europe, mainly Frankfurt and they moved over to the other countries, Rothschild was one of them. Not your ordinary banks that go and withdraw some money out of. They dealt with literally massive trade all across the world. International trade. And these big banks in London were put in the Templar area there, of course with the giant obelisk right by the river, not by coincidence were they set up there. So I don't know why you find it so difficult to accept that the big bankers ran the money systems back then. These are big big players, they are not middle men.
I did not say anything about the bankers and the money system. I said the bankers did not own the factories so stop twisting my words.

The Egyptian Obelisk in London by the Embankment was not erected until 1878 although what this has to do with the Banks is beyond my comprehension.

Quote:
It appears we have read some strikingly different history here! They needed all the small farmers out of the way in Britain, correct? So the Corn Laws were pushed in to allow foreign grain to be dumped on the British market to get rid of these small farmers. Then these 'red brick cities' appear, already thrown up and built, and they need to be occupied by new workers, so these farmers with no employment and no work were forced to work in them. Cities that became Manchester, Birmingham, Liverpool, etc, they were crammed in as cannon fodder. It can't have been a choice that many willingly made because If you remember the big horses and the carts they used during the plague to cart people off, these were used all throughout the Industrial Era in Britain to collect the dead every morning, they were all malnourished because they were paid such horrendous wages working a MINIMUM 16 hours a day! Now the small farmers would have been at least aware of this before they upped sticks. There's a reason that they say 'Merrie old England' never really existed.
How many times do I have to say it before you understand? The Corn Laws were a form of protectionism which prevented foreign grain from being imported. The result was that the owners of agricultural land, including small farmers, were protected against low prices. The Corn Laws kept prices high and therefore the price of bread was high too.

The Corn Laws first came on the Statue Books in 1813 and was a retaliation for what Napoleon had done in trying to prevent trade with England.

If you disagree with this then please direct me to the appropriate documents which show that the Corn Laws forced small farmers out of business. It was in fact the repeal of the Corn Laws that damaged small farmers.

As I explained to you the Industrial Revolution began in the 17th century, before the Corn Laws. As for the ‘working 16 hours a day’ I think you will find that farmers work longer hours then this and on Sundays too and outside in all weathers. Working in the factories must have seemed like a rst to them.

I suggest you read up on the Parliamentary debates throughout the early 19th century about limiting the hours of factory workers culminating in the 10 hours a day Act passed in 1847.

As for your hysterical nonsense about plague carts being used to cart all the dead off each morning I’ll pass over that. Only when there were epidemics would that happen. An outbreak of cholera in 1831 caused 52,000 deaths in the Uk

“In the 1830s the "new fever," typhus, was isolated. During its worst outbreak, in 1837-38, most of the deaths from fever in London were attributed to typhus, and new cases averaged about sixteen thousand in England in each of the next four years. This happened to coincide with one of the worst smallpox contagions, which killed tens of thousands, mainly infants and children. Scarlet fever, or scarlatina as it was then called, was responsible for nearly twenty thousand deaths in 1840 alone.”

Source: http://www.victorianweb.org/science/.../health10.html

Again, as before please show us some documentation to prove what you are saying.

Quote:
And it's really still the same today, these big factory-type stores, massive stores they've put up across the planet keeps the small guys out of business. This was all planned and all done intentionally A small shop owner cannot compete. Being unable to buy in bulk and get the reduced prices on certain items so he goes under.
I know several small shop and business owners who are doing very well. People are attracted to good service as well as prices. There have also been a number of large companies go out of business, like Woolworth’s, Comet etc. etc.

Quote:
They did no such thing. The idea was to get all these cheap crops in massive quantities for much cheaper than they could get it in Britain, all the peasant farmers were kicked off their land and into the cities. The exact same thing financed and planned by the same families is still going on today, so why on earth would it be any different 200, 300 years ago?
Once again for those who clearly have no understanding. The Corn Laws prevented cheap grain from being imported. It was when they were repealed that the cheap grain came in.

Quote:
Well it was Lord Rothschild himself once he got into the House of Lords, he put through the Corn Law act, and I don't agree with your synopsis that this act didn't allow cheap foreign grain to flood in but I will read what you have suggested there when I have time this week.
Rothschild became a Baron in 1847 and was thus eligible for the House of Lords. The first Corn Laws date to 1813 when he was just 3 years old and they were repealed in 1846, one year before he entered the House of Lords. So do tell us how he managed to influence these Laws!!
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Old 02-12-2014, 02:05 PM   #489
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Originally Posted by rapunzel View Post
When you refer to the Corn Laws you are referring to the UK. If you want to include the Industrialisation of the known world then you should say so.



I did not say anything about the bankers and the money system. I said the bankers did not own the factories so stop twisting my words.

The Egyptian Obelisk in London by the Embankment was not erected until 1878 although what this has to do with the Banks is beyond my comprehension.



How many times do I have to say it before you understand? The Corn Laws were a form of protectionism which prevented foreign grain from being imported. The result was that the owners of agricultural land, including small farmers, were protected against low prices. The Corn Laws kept prices high and therefore the price of bread was high too.

The Corn Laws first came on the Statue Books in 1813 and was a retaliation for what Napoleon had done in trying to prevent trade with England.

If you disagree with this then please direct me to the appropriate documents which show that the Corn Laws forced small farmers out of business. It was in fact the repeal of the Corn Laws that damaged small farmers.

As I explained to you the Industrial Revolution began in the 17th century, before the Corn Laws. As for the ‘working 16 hours a day’ I think you will find that farmers work longer hours then this and on Sundays too and outside in all weathers. Working in the factories must have seemed like a rst to them.

I suggest you read up on the Parliamentary debates throughout the early 19th century about limiting the hours of factory workers culminating in the 10 hours a day Act passed in 1847.

As for your hysterical nonsense about plague carts being used to cart all the dead off each morning I’ll pass over that. Only when there were epidemics would that happen. An outbreak of cholera in 1831 caused 52,000 deaths in the Uk

“In the 1830s the "new fever," typhus, was isolated. During its worst outbreak, in 1837-38, most of the deaths from fever in London were attributed to typhus, and new cases averaged about sixteen thousand in England in each of the next four years. This happened to coincide with one of the worst smallpox contagions, which killed tens of thousands, mainly infants and children. Scarlet fever, or scarlatina as it was then called, was responsible for nearly twenty thousand deaths in 1840 alone.”

Source: http://www.victorianweb.org/science/.../health10.html

Again, as before please show us some documentation to prove what you are saying.



I know several small shop and business owners who are doing very well. People are attracted to good service as well as prices. There have also been a number of large companies go out of business, like Woolworth’s, Comet etc. etc.



Once again for those who clearly have no understanding. The Corn Laws prevented cheap grain from being imported. It was when they were repealed that the cheap grain came in.



Rothschild became a Baron in 1847 and was thus eligible for the House of Lords. The first Corn Laws date to 1813 when he was just 3 years old and they were repealed in 1846, one year before he entered the House of Lords. So do tell us how he managed to influence these Laws!!
But it was Rothschild who got the Corn repeal act through in the Lords. He was not 3 years old. He was no sooner made a Lord and he was in parliament. Even meats were dumped on Britain along with all the cheap foreign grain. The foreign companies this produce was coming from were all owned and run by his relatives by the way, in France and elsewhere.

For every Woolworths there's a new Asda, for every Comet there's a gargantuan new PC World that springs up. It's a profit system, purely profit-motivated, a system that's based on competitiveness, we're taught to go into the workforce and compete, but only a few people will ever get to the top of the pyramid. Success is measured by how many zeros you have at the end of the numbers each month, all at the expense of others underneath them. All these agreements they signed at the end of World War II had a purpose, these were the agreements that Britain was to be 'de-indutrialized', only they wouldn't tell the public. All they wanted left was international corporations and so the small business owners were penalized heavily all through the 60's, 70's and 80's until they were pretty well put under and go and work for these corporations. The same exact thing is now happening in the US and Canada. It takes nearly a whole day just to get through all the paperwork that keeps the governments happy doesn't it? No self-employment whatsoever is the aim, they need all that out of the way to get the new monetary system in.

These strict timescales for the Industrial Revolution you are imposing on me are irrelevant because the concept was exactly the same. They couldn't boot all the farmers off their land and small holdings within a a few days. It was going to take some time.

It's a nonsense that all the farmers were all used to this working 16 hours a day in all sorts of conditions, and they just willingly adapted to this. I've met some farmers and they don't work 16 hours, more like eight hours a day. And sometimes they would have 20 crammed to one room back then in horrendous conditions. Benjamin Franklin talked about this when he came over and he said 'There are hundreds and hundreds coming out of these factories', and he commented on how he saw a shoe factory and not one of the actual workers had a pair of shoes on their feet! All of them were filthy, in squalor and wearing rags. That was 'Great Britain' coming up to the height of its empire, just as Britain is today, an empire ruled by the few.

Saying that the plague carts only came about during epidemics is a gross simplification! I'll have you know the plague carts came round all through the industrial era, every day in fact. It was because every morning so many had died in their cramped conditions, doing 16 hours, back for a tiny bit of sleep, being kept on subsistence wages they had almost nothing to eat. It was all a price worth paying to ensure the higher sciences would take off. Remember too, there were no safety laws to fall back on then, you had to stand on your feet all day for the whole 16 hour day, including women and children.

A long time ago they said they would cram everyone off into the cities. It was all worked out in advance by the merchants in London, and once again the same thing is still happening now. If you look through history and see the same agenda played out again and again, and the same exact still happening today, what's so difficult to believe that it could be on the go hundreds of years ago?

Where can I get those books you suggested? I've had a look online, are they papers or actual books?
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Old 03-12-2014, 05:28 PM   #490
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But it was Rothschild who got the Corn repeal act through in the Lords. He was not 3 years old. He was no sooner made a Lord and he was in parliament. Even meats were dumped on Britain along with all the cheap foreign grain. The foreign companies this produce was coming from were all owned and run by his relatives by the way, in France and elsewhere.
I got my Rothschilds mixed up with some dates. The first Baron Rothschild was born in 1840, became an MP in 1865 and sat in the House of Commons until 1885 when he was given a title and went to the House of Lords. His father, who held the Hapsburg title of Baron had nothing to do with politics.

As you can see the first UK Baron Rothschild had nothing whatsoever to do with the Corn Laws, which were repealed in 1846 when he was 6 years old, yet you tell us, firstly that he was connected with the Corn Laws in their implementation and when I show you he could not have been you assert he was involved in their repeal, which he could not have been either.

So we can see that you know nothing whatsoever about the Corn Laws or about Rothschild

It’s up to you to show some proof that the foreign companies you say were owned by Rothschild and his relatives imported cheap goods into Britain. You just saying it doesn’t make it true.

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For every Woolworths there's a new Asda, for every Comet there's a gargantuan new PC World that springs up. It's a profit system, purely profit-motivated, a system that's based on competitiveness, we're taught to go into the workforce and compete, but only a few people will ever get to the top of the pyramid. Success is measured by how many zeros you have at the end of the numbers each month, all at the expense of others underneath them. All these agreements they signed at the end of World War II had a purpose, these were the agreements that Britain was to be 'de-indutrialized', only they wouldn't tell the public. All they wanted left was international corporations and so the small business owners were penalized heavily all through the 60's, 70's and 80's until they were pretty well put under and go and work for these corporations. The same exact thing is now happening in the US and Canada. It takes nearly a whole day just to get through all the paperwork that keeps the governments happy doesn't it? No self-employment whatsoever is the aim, they need all that out of the way to get the new monetary system in.
Again, you need to provide some proof for what you say. I’d particularly like to see the agreement that said that Britain was to be ‘de-industrialised’.

Quote:
These strict timescales for the Industrial Revolution you are imposing on me are irrelevant because the concept was exactly the same. They couldn't boot all the farmers off their land and small holdings within a a few days. It was going to take some time.
They are not irrelevant at all. If you do not understand the timescales involved then you understand nothing about the Industrial Revolution.

Quote:
It's a nonsense that all the farmers were all used to this working 16 hours a day in all sorts of conditions, and they just willingly adapted to this. I've met some farmers and they don't work 16 hours, more like eight hours a day.
I’d love to know the farmers who only work 8 hours a day! They are more likely to be so called ‘gentlemen farmers’ who employ others to do the manual work for them. I stayed bed and breakfast at a farm once and the farmer was out before 6 am and worked until 9.30-10 pm with a couple of hours break in between. Obviously it’s less in the winter. Anyway I’ve shown you that the 10 hours a day legislation was passed in 1847 which limited the working hours of workers in the factories.

Quote:
And sometimes they would have 20 crammed to one room back then in horrendous conditions. Benjamin Franklin talked about this when he came over and he said 'There are hundreds and hundreds coming out of these factories', and he commented on how he saw a shoe factory and not one of the actual workers had a pair of shoes on their feet! All of them were filthy, in squalor and wearing rags. That was 'Great Britain' coming up to the height of its empire, just as Britain is today, an empire ruled by the few.
I don’t deny that life for the workers was horrendous. By the way Benjamin Franklin died in 1790. Can you show us the source about Franklin and the shoeless workers as I can’t track it down?

Quote:
Saying that the plague carts only came about during epidemics is a gross simplification! I'll have you know the plague carts came round all through the industrial era, every day in fact. It was because every morning so many had died in their cramped conditions, doing 16 hours, back for a tiny bit of sleep, being kept on subsistence wages they had almost nothing to eat. It was all a price worth paying to ensure the higher sciences would take off. Remember too, there were no safety laws to fall back on then, you had to stand on your feet all day for the whole 16 hour day, including women and children.
You need to be showing us some sources for all this info. Otherwise it will be treated as if you had invented it yourself and ignored.

Quote:
A long time ago they said they would cram everyone off into the cities.
Who said this and when? Sources please.

Quote:
It was all worked out in advance by the merchants in London, and once again the same thing is still happening now. If you look through history and see the same agenda played out again and again, and the same exact still happening today, what's so difficult to believe that it could be on the go hundreds of years ago?
Sources please otherwise it didn’t happen. We don’t just take your word for it you know.

Quote:
Where can I get those books you suggested? I've had a look online, are they papers or actual books?
I gave you links in post 482 to the Mirror of Parliament and Illness Health and Death but here they are again

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=t...page&q&f=false

http://www.evolve360.co.uk/data/10/docs/08/08crosby.pdf

As for the 3 books mentioned at the end you’ll probably have to look in the library but they are metioned in this Word doc.

learning.londonmet.ac.uk/busdev/hq1001nc/ecdl/migration.doc
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Old 08-12-2014, 07:47 PM   #491
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Actually it is you who needs to brush up on your Rothschild and Corn Law history, when it was Rothschild that passed the actual repeal act through parliament! How else would you have us believe they got all the people off their land? They didn't say to them 'please leave your land and go work in this slum'. The foreigners dumped all the cheap produce on Britain under cutting the farmers who lost everything. That's how it was done. Britain has always pushed free trade. Again, the same process happens over and over time and time again, back in the 60s they had big international meetings where they discussed how to get people off their land in and into the cities. The exact same thing was done in China when it became Communist. How can that all be coincidence?

We have already been de-industrialized. It was at the NATO meetings, the big meetings following WWII that it was decided. That was when Britain had agreed to de-industrialize in secret and not tell the population. There are declassified records out of London admitting this which you should know about already! But as I said, some people tend to look at the real history, true history as 'nutty conspiracy theories' and they'll try to lump you in with the 'It's the aliens' crowd.

But back to the point, the generations that went through the misery of this process of de-industrialization were of course not told about it, and the whole plan was the amalgamation of Europe, which they decided and planned in 1945. After that the US, Canada, and Mexico were to be amalgamated and a United Americas, which they would again begin to deindustrialize. Even in the 60s and 70s when they were still de-industrializing Britain you had massive unemployment, and gargantuan welfare rolls, but as I said, this was all agreed when Britain signed the last part of the UN treaty.

Franklin said that himself about the shoe workers, he came over with his wife and he saw them all in the shoe factory and none of them had any shoes on their feet. They couldn't afford them. Just because the BBC might have written a romanticized history of Britain, and actually rewritten it through fictional dramas, you can't stop the facts!
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Old 11-12-2014, 04:49 PM   #492
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Actually it is you who needs to brush up on your Rothschild and Corn Law history, when it was Rothschild that passed the actual repeal act through parliament! How else would you have us believe they got all the people off their land? They didn't say to them 'please leave your land and go work in this slum'. The foreigners dumped all the cheap produce on Britain under cutting the farmers who lost everything. That's how it was done. Britain has always pushed free trade. Again, the same process happens over and over time and time again, back in the 60s they had big international meetings where they discussed how to get people off their land in and into the cities. The exact same thing was done in China when it became Communist. How can that all be coincidence?

We have already been de-industrialized. It was at the NATO meetings, the big meetings following WWII that it was decided. That was when Britain had agreed to de-industrialize in secret and not tell the population. There are declassified records out of London admitting this which you should know about already! But as I said, some people tend to look at the real history, true history as 'nutty conspiracy theories' and they'll try to lump you in with the 'It's the aliens' crowd.

But back to the point, the generations that went through the misery of this process of de-industrialization were of course not told about it, and the whole plan was the amalgamation of Europe, which they decided and planned in 1945. After that the US, Canada, and Mexico were to be amalgamated and a United Americas, which they would again begin to deindustrialize. Even in the 60s and 70s when they were still de-industrializing Britain you had massive unemployment, and gargantuan welfare rolls, but as I said, this was all agreed when Britain signed the last part of the UN treaty.

Franklin said that himself about the shoe workers, he came over with his wife and he saw them all in the shoe factory and none of them had any shoes on their feet. They couldn't afford them. Just because the BBC might have written a romanticized history of Britain, and actually rewritten it through fictional dramas, you can't stop the facts!
I keep asking you for sources but you never give any so I have to think that you just made up everything you wrote out of your own head. Is that correct? The BBC's fictional dramas have nothing whatsoever to do with this.

I don't know why you insist that the Rothschilds had anything to do with the Corn Laws. Once again I ask for sources. Perhaps I can help you with some details.

Nathan 1777 - 1836 held a German barony and had nothing to do with UK politics.

Lionel 1808 -1879 (son) elected MP 1847 (after repeal of Corn Laws 1846) but didn't take his seat until 1850.

Nathan 1840 - 1915 (son of Lionel) Created 1st Baron Rothschild 1885 and went to House of Lords.

So which Rothschild was it? Please supply some evidence when you've made up your mind.

Nathan 1840 - 1915
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Old 11-12-2014, 05:00 PM   #493
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I keep asking you for sources but you never give any so I have to think that you just made up everything you wrote out of your own head. Is that correct? The BBC's fictional dramas have nothing whatsoever to do with this.

I don't know why you insist that the Rothschilds had anything to do with the Corn Laws. Once again I ask for sources. Perhaps I can help you with some details.

Nathan 1777 - 1836 held a German barony and had nothing to do with UK politics.

Lionel 1808 -1879 (son) elected MP 1847 (after repeal of Corn Laws 1846) but didn't take his seat until 1850.

Nathan 1840 - 1915 (son of Lionel) Created 1st Baron Rothschild 1885 and went to House of Lords.

So which Rothschild was it? Please supply some evidence when you've made up your mind.

Nathan 1840 - 1915
This might be the lady to contact with your questions on the corn laws.

Barbara Yorke, FRHS
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Old 15-12-2014, 08:32 PM   #494
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Oh my God... there are hidden pictures of our overlords on a common household snack.
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Old 22-12-2014, 11:28 PM   #495
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Lightbulb Corn on the Cob

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Originally Posted by tavingon View Post
Oh my God... there are hidden pictures of our overlords on a common household snack.
O my G you missed this bit...

Quote:
"Now is the time to rebel against this war with Germany,boys. Boys, get together and don't go..Rich man's war. Poor man's fight. The war is over with Germany if you don't go and J.P. Morgan & Co. is lost. Their great speculation is the only cause of the war..

Attaining a passable level of German within six months and also a degree in art history, Morgan traveled back to London via Wiesbaden, with his education complete..Morgan died in Rome, Italy, in his sleep in 1913 at the age of 75, leaving his fortune and business to his son, John Pierpont Morgan, Jr...
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Originally Posted by tavingon View Post
So the masons burnt it all down so they could get rich being employed to build up again? That's like a baker going down to Tesco and smashing all the bread up...
Eh ! How does that work, surely you would have to knock down the building where the bread is stored..After all you can always get more grain as in bread and circus...
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Originally Posted by lightgiver View Post

Thats odd the pentagon attack date is wrong...



http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/legacy/th...spiracy_2.html
http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon...e/footage.html
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showp...4&postcount=14Listen, do you wanna go back, or do you wanna stay here? I get it.. It's nice up here. You can just shut down all the systems, turn out all the lights, and just close your eyes and tune out everyone...http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showp...&postcount=755
Quote:
UKrainian white supremacist living in the UK avoids life sentence over murder and mosque bombings..did he enter the UK with a forged passport !..the way things are going they will be no british people living in the UK rain ian in the near future...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...-bombings.html
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showp...92&postcount=2

Last edited by lightgiver; 22-12-2014 at 11:35 PM.
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Old 24-12-2014, 12:04 PM   #496
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This might be the lady to contact with your questions on the corn laws.

Barbara Yorke, FRHS
Thanks but I haven't got any questions about the Corn Laws. It is Jack Tripper who need the info as he is busily creating his own version of history.

Barbara Yorke specialises in Anglo Saxon history, so why would she be an expert on the Corn Laws?
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Old 11-01-2015, 01:25 PM   #497
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Arrow All the dirty shitty jobs





Is that why masons love the Queen because of the corn laws...

I have cleaned a few septic tanks over the years and one thing you see in there is corn, especially around the Liver Pool area ..

do scousers eat lots of corn or something...

Or maybe scoucers love the queen..


http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0286106/
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showp...&postcount=396
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Old 11-01-2015, 01:28 PM   #498
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[QUOTE=rapunzel;1062346255]Thanks but I haven't got any questions about the Corn Laws. It is Jack Tripper who need the info as he is busily creating his own version of history.

Barbara Yorke specialises in Anglo Saxon history, so why would she be an expert on the Corn Laws?[/QUOTE]

Because she studies ancient laws etc

maybe JT could drop her a message and see.
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Old 11-01-2015, 03:37 PM   #499
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[QUOTE=super glue;1062368807]
Quote:
Originally Posted by rapunzel View Post
Thanks but I haven't got any questions about the Corn Laws. It is Jack Tripper who need the info as he is busily creating his own version of history.

Barbara Yorke specialises in Anglo Saxon history, so why would she be an expert on the Corn Laws?[/QUOTE]

Because she studies ancient laws etc

maybe JT could drop her a message and see.
The Corn Laws belong to the 19th century. It would be far easier to consult someone specialising in that era, I think. Just because someone specialises in 'ancient laws' doesn't mean they are an authority on all areas of the past.
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Last edited by rapunzel; 11-01-2015 at 03:40 PM.
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Old 11-01-2015, 03:44 PM   #500
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[QUOTE=rapunzel;1062368946]
Quote:
Originally Posted by super glue View Post

The Corn Laws belong to the 19th century. It would be far easier to consult someone specialising in that era, I think. Just because someone specialises in 'ancient laws' doesn't mean they are an authority on all areas of the past.
They might though, and know the very person who does, never follow any road to its ultimate destination, because they nearly always lead nowhere.
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