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Old 25-05-2014, 11:47 AM   #41
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The charge of murder is nothing to do with morality. Murder is illegal because generally a person has a right to life and no other has the right to take it.........
i did not mention anything about "the charge of murder" in relation to the government who commit murder, therefore your comment is an invalid response.
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Old 25-05-2014, 11:50 AM   #42
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Yes I have read every post.I cannot speak on behalf of everybody, therefore it is impossible to decide how many people believe that murder is not immoral.
But, just because you believe that to murder is immoral does not mean everybody else shares your opinion.
So, again: is "I do not recognise this court's right to try me" a valid response to a charge of murder?
In your opinion?
yes......."I do not recognize this court's right to try me" if i commit murder and believe it was moral to do so then it stands imo
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Old 25-05-2014, 11:50 AM   #43
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i did not mention anything about "the charge of murder" in relation to the government who commit murder, therefore your comment is an invalid response.
Murder (the definition off) only exists in law (common law so it happens). Morality is irrelevant to that (ie you could believe you were morally right to murder some one but that does not mean that you were legally right). The point is valid
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Old 25-05-2014, 11:52 AM   #44
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Murder (the definition off) only exists in law (common law so it happens). Morality is irrelevant to that (ie you could believe you were morally right to murder some one but that does not mean that you were legally right). The point is valid
i disagree, Morality is relevant, see post above yours.
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Old 25-05-2014, 11:53 AM   #45
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yes......."I do not recognize this court's right to try me" if i commit murder and believe it was moral to do so then it stands imo
Thanks for clearing that up.
So you believe that you have the right to take somebody else's life based purely on your own personal moral values?
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Old 25-05-2014, 12:03 PM   #46
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Thanks for clearing that up.
So you believe that you have the right to take somebody else's life based purely on your own personal moral values?
yes
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Old 25-05-2014, 12:12 PM   #47
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yes
Do people that do not share your values have the same right?
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Old 25-05-2014, 12:20 PM   #48
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yes
Even if the person you killed believed what they were doing was morally right?
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Old 25-05-2014, 12:20 PM   #49
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Do people that do not share your values have the same right?
yes........

the justice system that you support, you would say is to prevent murder or the taking of another persons life, so does that mean the justice system is to change peoples personal morals?

This justice system that you support is not stopping murder and the taking of life. The problem is that much of society has lost the meaning of being moral, the governments of the world promote the lack of moral through there actions.

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Morality (from the Latin moralitas "manner, character, proper behavior") is the differentiation of intentions, decisions, and actions between those that are "good" (or right) and those that are "bad" wikipedia
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Old 25-05-2014, 12:21 PM   #50
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Even if the person you killed believed what they were doing was morally right?
this has been answered already, you going in circles now.
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Old 25-05-2014, 12:23 PM   #51
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this has been answered already, you going in circles now.
Where has this been answered?
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Old 25-05-2014, 12:25 PM   #52
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Where has this been answered?
post 46
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Old 25-05-2014, 12:26 PM   #53
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yes........



.

So whether a murder is justified depends on whether the murderer believes it to be so.....You can see the problem with this.


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the justice system that you support, you would say is to prevent murder or the taking of another persons life, so does that mean the justice system is to change peoples personal morals?
No. I would say the main purpose of the justice system is to punish those who have. The police should try to prevent crimes though, but the emphasis is on investigating crimes when they already happen. I have said before (although morality does sneak in to the law) that morals are irrelevant for the most part, especially personal morality because its subjective.
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Old 25-05-2014, 12:28 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by doobyferkin View Post
post 46

He is asking if you believe murders that you commit are ok if your reasoning was moral, what if the reason you murdered the person for, he believed that his actions were moral. Does your morality trump his? If so or not why? This has not been addressed.

Last edited by jon galt; 25-05-2014 at 12:29 PM.
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Old 25-05-2014, 12:29 PM   #55
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post 46
post 46 is not an answer to post 48.
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Old 25-05-2014, 12:34 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by jon galt View Post
So whether a murder is justified depends on whether the murderer believes it to be so.....You can see the problem with this.
yes i can see the problem with this.


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No. I would say the main purpose of the justice system is to punish those who have. The police should try to prevent crimes though, but the emphasis is on investigating crimes when they already happen. I have said before (although morality does sneak in to the law) that morals are irrelevant for the most part, especially personal morality because its subjective.
whatever the purpose of the justice system is, it is NOT working, it needs to change, but not just the justice system, the government needs to stop running things, however it is a cycle that will not stop, this thread will not change it, although it sets up a debate to get to the heart of areas that are not much openly discussed, and for those who seek will find meaning and a different perspective.

Your questions and opposition (including by others) is healthy for making people like me post difficult and sensitive answers, thanks for posting!
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Old 25-05-2014, 12:35 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by felixk View Post
post 46 is not an answer to post 48.
if you cannot see the answer then you are not paying attention.
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Old 25-05-2014, 12:37 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by doobyferkin View Post
Your questions and opposition (including by others) is healthy for making people like me post difficult and sensitive answers, thanks for posting!
Good show. Even from a pro freeman perspective I never really understood why some don't like being challenged. If they want to raise any points in courts they need to be prepared to have their arguments scrutinised.
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Old 25-05-2014, 12:38 PM   #59
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if you cannot see the answer then you are not paying attention.
OK so you are saying that your morals trump everbody else's.
Does that only apply to you and your morals or does it apply to everybody else and their moral values?

Last edited by felixk; 25-05-2014 at 12:39 PM.
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Old 25-05-2014, 12:40 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by felixk View Post
OK so you are saying that your morals trump everbody else's.
Does that only apply to your morals or does it apply to everybody's?
i can only answer with this..... "I do not recognize this court's right to try me"

from that you should get what i am saying and get the point.
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