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Old 17-01-2013, 09:34 PM   #41
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Default 300 and Time

The Ke is a traditional Chinese unit of decimal time lasting approximately a quarter of a western hour.

The Ke divides a day into 100 equal intervals of 14.4 minutes

Ke literally means 'to etch' or 'to cut'

Alongside the Ke, the ancient Chinese kept time with double hours-- known as Watches.

Because one cannot divide 12 double hours into 100 Ke evenly, each Ke was subdivided into 60 Fen.

So why did the Chinese need to divide 12 into 100 ??


Because 12*10 = 300
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Old 17-01-2013, 09:38 PM   #42
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Default Ole' Sleepy Eye

There were various attempts to redefine the Ke to 96, 108, or 120 so as to divide evenly into 12 double hours.

During the Qing dynasty around the time of the arrival of Jesuit missionaries, the duration of the Ke was finally redefined to one ninety-sixth of a day, or exactly one quarter of a western hour.

Today Ke is the standard Chinese term to refer to a quarter of an hour.

In addition, today's Fen is currently used to refer not to 1/60 of a Ke but rather 1/60 of an hour, or 1 minute.


According to the Shuowen Jiezi from Xu Shen, “漏以铜壶盛水,刻节,昼夜百刻。”

Translation: “Drop waters from a copper/bronze container with water inside. The time spent is measured. We can thus divide a whole day into 100 measures.”
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Old 17-01-2013, 09:42 PM   #43
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well, at this point there are many conclusions

the 64 million Jews 'eliminated' were in fact a record of the decendants of Abraham and his people-- basically-- they(Romans) "killed" dead people or an entire historical record of a people



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Originally Posted by believenothing View Post
This ridiculous mathematics appear on other historical place too. Especially involving 'massacres' of Jews. For example, it's estimated that the number of infants in Bethlehem during the 'massacre of the innocents' could not statistically exceed 20. 20 is not a 'massacre'

The population of the world at the time of this particular innocent was estimated to be 200,000,000. I have serious doubts that about 1/3 of the world's population was living in the vicinity of Jerusalem (64,000,000 being about 1/3 of 200,000,000). Then again, speaking of funny math, if they claim that global population doubles every 50-80 years, then there couldn't have even been 200,000,000 people living back then. Unless I'm doing the math wrong, I came up with 239. Not 239 million or even 239 thousand. Just 239 total.

Anyways, I guess religiously they might claim this has some sort of symbolic esoteric meaning (Gematria). Whatever. I'm sure many of them take it literally and believe that its true. Apparently the holy 6 million figure is related to this obsession with hidden meaning behind numbers:



This is why they came up with 6 million and why it was used originally during WWI until the Bolsheviks gained the upper-hand and control over Russia, then it was no longer needed. It was recycled in WWII and used by the Zionist movement to pretend that a prophecy was being fulfilled. But the ultimate holocaust death toll does not exceed 1.5 million and even 1.5 million is on the unrealistic high end.

The wrapping-in-scrolls story sounds an awful lot like modern psychological warfare propaganda. For example, the various "funeral shootings" in Syria. And not surprisingly, the "best" sources for the holocaust narrative (liars like Raul Hilberg) contained similar stories applied to the Germans. Off the top of my head, I remember some of his accounts about Germans shooting up Synagogues on Yom Kippur. Stuff like that. Which is similar to the Betar story about being destroyed on the day of mourning over the lost temple that never existed.



but Jews think that "massacre" is to be taken literally, look at the text, it says the "massacre" happened Betar after a Jewish revolution:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betar_(fortress)


Quote:
Betar was the last standing Jewish fortress in the Bar Kochba revolt of the 2nd century AD, destroyed by the Roman army on Tisha B'av.

The site of historic Betar (also spelled Beitar or Bethar), next to the modern Palestinian village of Battir southwest of Jerusalem, was known as Khirbet al-Yahudi, Arabic for "the Jew's ruins".

The destruction of Betar put an end to the last great revolt against Rome, and effectively quashed any Jewish dreams of freedom. Accounts of the event in Talmudic and Midrashic writings thus reflect and amplify its importance in the Jewish psyche and oral tradition in the subsequent period. The best known is from the Babylonian Talmud, Gittin 57a-b

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Old 17-01-2013, 09:55 PM   #44
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Default Tu Bishvat

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.

During the Qing dynasty around the time of the arrival of Jesuit missionaries, the duration of the Ke was finally redefined to one ninety-sixth of a day, or exactly one quarter of a western hour.
The name Tu Bishvat is derived from the Hebrew date of the holiday, which occurs on the fifteenth day of Shevat.

"Tu" stands for the Hebrew letters Tet and Vav, which together have the numerical value of 9 and 6, adding up to 15.

1/96 = 1/4 western hour or 15 minutes.
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Old 17-01-2013, 09:57 PM   #45
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Default ????

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but Jews think that "massacre is to be taken literally, look at the text, it says the "massacre" happened Betar after a Jewish revolution:
which particular Jews think that ??
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Old 17-01-2013, 10:01 PM   #46
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which particular Jews think that ??
what do you think Jews think about the Talmud ?? a book of parables ?? no, they believe it's an authentic book

what are you going to deny Jews don't believe the Babylonian Talmud ??
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Old 17-01-2013, 10:03 PM   #47
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what do you think Jews think about the Talmud ?? a book of parables ?? no, they believe it's an authentic book

what are you going to deny Jews don't believe the Babylonian Talmud ??
Some Jews use Talmud, some Jews do not

is the Talmud your concern, or are Jews your concern ??
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Old 17-01-2013, 10:06 PM   #48
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Some Jews use Talmud, some Jews do not

is the Talmud your concern, or are Jews your concern ??
that's a great point you know

i have said this so many times but i will repeat it again

I do not have a problem with non-Talmudic Jews, such as the Samaritans

the Talmud is what starts the problem, if a Jew believed in Torah then that's fine, but Talmud is a highly red alert for me

I hope i made it clear


P.S : majority of Jews believe in Talmud
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Old 17-01-2013, 10:25 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by omar revo View Post
that's a great point you know

i have said this so many times but i will repeat it again

I do not have a problem with non-Talmudic Jews, such as the Samaritans

the Talmud is what starts the problem, if a Jew believed in Torah then that's fine, but Talmud is a highly red alert for me

I hope i made it clear


P.S : majority of Jews believe in Talmud
What about the Jews you do not understand ??

Do they have the right to pray in unknown tongue ??

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Old 17-01-2013, 10:37 PM   #50
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Default The Mongols

The Mongols were related to the Jurchen (Jusen), Khazars, Gokturks, Huns, and other people of mixed ethnicity who lived for generations in isolation on the Siberian steppes. I'm not interested in going into the history of the Mongol raids for the most part, that's well-documented elsewhere. I also need to clarify that the modern Turks of Turkey and the modern Mongols of Mongolia are not the same as the Mongols of the Mongol invasion. Nor are the modern Tatars the same as the Tatars mentioned below. Related in name and maybe a shared history, perhaps a very distant relation. But we're dealing with an ethnic type that no longer exists. Genghis Kahn was said to have been green or dark-eyed with pale skin and red hair. He was not, however, Caucasian as some people like to believe.

The History of the Nation of Archers by Grigor of Akner

http://rbedrosian.com/ga1.htm

A surviving Armenian account of the Mongol invasion. I wanted to highlight a few interesting things

Quote:
Concerning the Nation of Archers, where they came from and from what line they arose, and how they came to rule over many lands and districts.

After the expulsion from paradise of Adam, the man created by God, and after the command of the lord God [that Adam] for all the days of his life should eat bread [produced] through the sweat of labor—because of the deceit of woman and the treachery of the vile snake, and all this for forgetting God's beautiful command—the nature of man was eager to occupy itself with the physical pleasures of the body. Meanwhile the slanderer Satan, because of his wicked envy, was ever teaching mankind to work inequities, such as Cain's fratricide and the impious giants, to create new sins, and to eat carrion.

When the Creator saw this, He became angry because of mankind's evil deeds and caused the Flood to destroy everyone excepting the venerable and just Noah who preserved the seed of mankind. The father of faith, the great Abraham, Tereh (T'aray)'s son, was born ten generations after Noah the just. [Abraham] was styled the "sublime father" since many peoples and tribes derived from him, due to the blessing of God. [God] told [Abraham] to "multiply in sons like stars in the sky or like sand on the seashore" [end of grabar (Classical Armenian) text page 284; henceforth shown as, for example, g284]. And indeed, that is what happened.

Isaac was born from Abraham's free wife. Esau and Jacob were [Isaac's] descendants. Jacob's descendants included the twelve patriarchs and the great prophet, David. The Word of God, our lord Jesus Christ, was revealed from the house and line of David.

[There were also descendants] from the hand maidens of Abraham, one of whom was named Hagar and the other Kendura (Ketura). From Ketura, Imran was born whence the Pahlaws, [a lineage which includes] brave Arshak and saint Gregory, illuminator of the Armenians. From Hagar [descended] Ishmael, which translates "the hearing of God," whence the Ishmaelites. At the birth of Ishmael, God commanded Abraham to give to him and his people the richness of the land, and to make a great people from him with his hand upon his enemies, and more successful than all other peoples with the sword and bow.

The Esavites, who are the Scythians, descended from Esau, son of Isaac. They are black, wild, and strange looking. From them descend the Boramichk' and Lekzik', who dwell in holes and traps and perpetrate many crimes.

And it is said that the Edomites, who are the Franks, also are descended from him. These three peoples, descendants of Hagar, Ketura, and Esau, mingled together and gave birth to another people, strange looking and wicked, called T'at'ar, which means sharp and light.

St. Nerse's says that [the Mongols] are the remnants of Hagar mingled with the people of Gog, who are descendants of the T'orgom who hold the Scythian part of the world. This begins at the At'l [Volga] river, by Mt. Emawon and extends as far as the Caspian Sea where [g286] thirty-three peoples dwell. They are called by the barbaric names Xuzh and Duzh. They are separate peoples. The chief of all of them is called Bushx.

Of these peoples, one is called T'ughark', which we believe are the ones called T'at'ars.
First of all, it's interesting he says that Scythians were black. There doesn't appear to be a historical consensus on who or what tribes constituted as Scythians. This is not the only mention of this, I recall at least one other historian mention black and white Scythians.

Also interesting that it says Franks are descended from Esau. Esau was biblically associated with living in Edom, the color red (which is what Edom and Adam mean), and being hairy. The people of the British Isles have long claimed Scythian ancestry. This along with the mention of the Franks I find very interesting, but I won't speculate much further for now.

I think T'ughark is either referring to Uyghurs, Turks, or both. T'at'ars are obviously Tatars who accompanied the Mongols on their raids. Notice how he says they are all of mixed race. Xuzh and Duzh is reffering to divisions which still exist as the Kazakh jüzes


Jüz... really? Jüz. Has there mean a historical mixup here? Did these Jüz get confused for Yehudim or something? I'm serious, because I'm pretty sure the Khazars also called their divisions Jüz.

What I find the most surprising of this biblical 'summary' is the complete lack of mentioning Moses. He must not have been very important to these Armenians. Isn't that kind of strange? Was the biblical canon established at this point? The oldest Greek Septuagints don't have Exodus either. And I recall that the Jews of Judea providence did not care about it as much as the Samaritans (who broke off from them in a schism). The most important Jewish books are Exodus and Esther. One makes them a chosen people, the other is a successful account of subverting the royal family and exterminating enemies (which itself is a version of a Hittite myth about killing a dragon associated with a Spring festival with a similar name to Purim, so that isn't Jewish in origin either)

Quote:
Regarding their life-style, religion, laws and ruler.

As we heard from some of them, this [Mongol] people arose from their land of Turkestan and moved to some area to the east, dwelling there in extreme poverty for a long time as robbers and wild men. They had no religion except for felt images which they carried with them for witchcraft. They were in awe of the sun, as though it were a divine power.

Then suddenly they came to their senses, very straitened by their wretched and poor life. They called upon the aid of God, creator of Heaven and earth, and swore a great oath to Him to be faithful to His commands.

By the command of God, an angel in the form of an eagle with golden feathers appeared to their chief named Ch'anke"z, calling out to him in the dialect of their own language. [Chingiz] went and stood opposite the angel in the form of an eagle out in the open at a distance of an arrowshot. And then the eagle, speaking their own language, related all the commands of God.

Here are the laws of God which they call Iasax which were given to them [g288]: first, that they love one another; second, that they not commit adultery; not steal; not bear false witness; not betray anyone; and that they honor the aged and the poor. And should perpetrators of such crimes be found among them, they should be killed.

When the angel had so instructed [Chingiz], he called the chief by the title of Ghayan, whence Ch'anke"z Ghayan or Ch'anke"z khan. And the angel told him to rule over many lands and districts and to increase into an uncountable, limitless host, as in fact happened.

What had been said by the Lord [to Chingiz-Khan] was fulfilled just as God, speaking through a prophet, had threatened: "Nabugodonosr is a golden chalice in my hands and I shall give it to whomever I choose to drink" [Jer. 51.7]. In this way an alien people brought upon us not only the chalice but the dregs of bitterness because of our many and diverse sins which always angered God the Creator at our deeds. As a result, the Lord in anger roused [the Mongols] as a lesson to us for not obeying His commands.
The reason I mention the lack of Exodus is because this sounds kind of like it. But apparently this happened in the 13th century AD. Also around the 13th century AD, the Mexica made an "Exodus" from Aztlan. They followed around a cloud god with a magic stick that could part water and they settled Mexico City in a story that is part of that city's foundation myth. Their exodus was similar in several respects to the exodus. Coincidence?

The Mongols invaded Japan (sort of). Did they invade the Americas too?


Mayan god. Kukulkan or Kukul Khan? (or maybe even Kublai Khan). Or is it Cain? Or Cohen? Or Kohanim? I'm just speculating, it could all be coincidence. Part of me doesn't think so though.

Yassa


Yassa was a divine and secret Mongol code of law created by Genghis Khan. Apparently the Yassa was kept a secret and is now lost with nobody knowing how the laws were composed. But maybe this Armenian guy wasn't conjecturing. Again:

Quote:
Here are the laws of God which they call Iasax which were given to them [g288]: first, that they love one another; second, that they not commit adultery; not steal; not bear false witness; not betray anyone; and that they honor the aged and the poor. And should perpetrators of such crimes be found among them, they should be killed.
Iasax is Yassa by the way. Now those sound like the ten commandments. Maybe the Yassa was the ten commandments. Either way, this Armenian scribe was convinced that god had abandoned them and chosen the Mongols for a 'new' covenant.

Quote:
Let us say some more about what these first T'at'ars resembled. The first who came against our country were not like [ordinary] people. They were awful to see and impossible to describe. They had large heads, like a buffalo, narrow eyes like a chick, short noses like a cat, protruding chins like a dog, narrow waists like an ant, and short legs like a pig. They are completely beardless, possessing the strength of a lion and a screeching voice like an eagle. They appear unexpectedly. Their women have attractive hats covered with a brocade shawl on top and broad faces smeared with a deadly pine medicine. They give birth like snakes [g294], and eat like wolves. Death does not appear among them, and so they can live for three hundred years. Such were the folk who came first to the upper land. They never eat bread.
Interesting description that I don't think anybody would take seriously. I don't know how he would know they lived for 300 years or why he said they gave birth like snakes. Probably just a racial evaluation couple with exaggeration. Unless....

Quote:
In these days a comet appeared for a while, then was concealed again. During the same period, the sun was darkened from the sixth to the ninth hour.
People used to be afraid of comets. It's interesting that a comet appeared creating what sounds like a solar eclipse for three hours while it was in orbit. Don't expect bottom-up academics to even ponder such things. They think the Earth is as it has always been. But while I'm on the topic, it's kind of weird that Gok in Gokturk means celestial. Maybe it means mountain. But what if......

Now compare the physical description with that of Jordanes' describing the Huns when they engaged the Goths:

Quote:
For by the terror of their features they inspired great fear in those whom perhaps they did not really surpass in war. They made their foes flee in horror because their swarthy aspect was fearful, and they had, if I may call it so, a sort of shapeless lump, not a head, with pin-holes rather than eyes. Their hardihood is evident in their wild appearance, and they are beings who are cruel to their children on the very day they are born.
Although separated by 1,000 years, there are parallels within the Hun and Mongol invasion accounts. A fringe revisionist historian, Anatoly Fomenko, claims they are two different versions of the same event and the dates are screwed up because of calendar distances. For example, the Armenian Mongol account is in their year of 663 (1214 AD) and yet no Mongol invasion would have occurred in the Georgian kingdom during that year (it happened later). Both of the above events involve the same geographic region with similarly described 'alien' looking hordes. The Huns practiced cranial deformation btw

Among this geographic region, you'll find a lot of names that start with "Kara" including a sect of Jews called Karaites. Karaites actually didn't use to like being called "Jews". They follow an Old Testament-based religion, do not recognize the Talmud or Oral Torah, and even recognize Christ as a Messiah. They had to prove to Russians that the were not in the Middle East during the time of Christ, but Karaites have traditionally avoiding the persecution and stereotypes that accompanied Pharisee Jews and non-Karaite Jews. There were a few instances where by association they were attacked, but Jews themselves persecute and attack Karaites the most because they disagree with their religious interpretation. A rabbi in Israel even called for their extermination!

That's about all I have to say about the Mongols. Mainly I wanted to point out the Exodus parallels and the historical parallels. Because I'm convinced historical chronology is messed up and inaccurate, and I'm convinced this helps support that theory.

Last edited by believenothing; 17-01-2013 at 11:30 PM.
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Old 17-01-2013, 10:38 PM   #51
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What about the Jews you do not understand ??
I'm not sure if i don't understand the purpose of this question



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Originally Posted by sugarelf View Post
Do they have the right to pray in unknown tongue ??
you mean praying in another language ?? sure, but only Qur'an & words of the Five daily prayers are to be read in Arabic

the rest is to be in any language
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Old 17-01-2013, 11:30 PM   #52
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Default Hypsistarians

I've pretty much reached the end of sharing my research observations on Jewish history.

The last people I want to mention are a people you probably never even heard of called Hypsistarians:


According to Wiki:

Quote:
Hypsistarians, i.e. worshippers of the Hypsistos (Greek: Ὕψιστος, the "Most High" God), is a term appearing in documents dated about 200 BC to about AD 400, referring to various groups mostly in Asia Minor (Cappadocia, Bithynia and Pontus) and on the South Russian coasts of what is today known as the Black Sea.
Emphasis mine

http://www.sacred-texts.com/cla/af/af01.htm

From The Theology of the Phoencians by Sanchoniatho:

Quote:
And in times long subsequent to these; were born of the race of Hypsuranius, Agreus and Halieus, the inventors of the arts of hunting and fishing, from whom huntsmen and fishermen derive their names.

Of these were begotten two brothers who discovered iron, and the forging thereof. One of these called Chrysor, who is the same with Hephæstus, exercised himself in words, and charms and divinations; and he invented the hook, and the bait, and the fishing-line, and boats of a light construction; he was the first of all men that sailed. Wherefore he was worshipped after his death as a God, under the name of Diamichius. And it is said that his brothers invented the art of building walls with bricks.

Afterwards, of this race were born two youths, one of whom was called Technites, and the other was called Geïnus Autochthôn. These discovered the method of mingling stubble with the loam of bricks, and of baking them in the sun; they were also the inventors of tiling.

By these were begotten others, of whom one was named Agrus, the other Agrouerus or Agrotes, of whom in Phœnicia there was a statue held in the highest veneration, and a temple drawn by yokes of oxen: and at Byblus he is called, by way of eminence, the greatest of the Gods. These added to the houses, courts and porticos and crypts: husbandmen, and such as hunt with dogs, derive their origin from these: they are called also Aletæ, and Titans.

From these were descended Amynus and Magus, who taught men to construct villages and tend flocks.

By these men were begotten Misor and Sydyc, that is, Well-freed and Just: and they found out the use of salt.

From Misor descended Taautus, who invented the writing of the first letters: him the Egyptians called Thoor, the Alexandrians Thoyth, and the Greeks Hermes. But from Sydyc descended the Dioscuri, or Cabiri, or Corybantes, or Samothraces: these (he says) first built a ship complete.

From these descended others; who were the discoverers of medicinal herbs, and of the cure of poisons and of charms.

Contemporary with these was one Elioun, called Hypsistus, (the most high); and his wife named Beruth, and they dwelt about Byblus.
Hephaestus is the Greek blacksmith god, probably equivalent to the Egyptian Ptha (and I just can't help but wonder... Ptah like Pita? As in father? As in Dyaus Pita or Jupiter or Jove? Jove or should I say Jahveh. And I can't help but conjecture if St. Peter was born out of this too with the flip-side of Paul being derived from Ba'al)

Is Hephaestus equal to Hypsistus? Beruth, by the way, would be Beirut. And Byblus Byblos. Elioun is Elyon or most high which is a polythestic title that has also been applied to Elohim. Elohim is supposed to be the Jewish god, but Elohim is a plural word. It means gods. The Elephantine Jews were polytheistic.

Hypsistarians were monotheistic worshippers of the god most high. They followed some Judaic traditions, circumcision not being one of them. Their presence in Anatolia is very interesting. Historians put them somewhere between Jews and Christians, often associating them with Hellenistic Jews and Greek converts to Jewish traditions.

The word also had something to do with reality and appears in Gnostic works. For example:

The Hypostasis of the Archons

http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/hypostas.html

Similar enough for me, although I could be wrong. Were they gnostics? Were they Aryans? The Avesta and Vedas are probably a variation of Aryan theology and Zoroastrianism had an influence on early Christianity and Gnosis. Were they like Essenes or Nazarenes? Were they superstitious? The Guti (Kurds?), Medians and Magi seem to have corrupted gnostic beliefs and Zoroastrianism and mixed it with their own. Which is probably also related to things like Cabala and maybe Alchemy. Possibly the Druze and the unrelated (or ar they?) Druids. I don't know, I'm just guessing. There is not much info about these Hypsistarians

But they don't appear to have been a minor sect. They were in Anatolia near the Black Sea around where Galatia was. Now like I said earlier, did Jesus really visit Galilee or Galatia? The entire New Testament and most of the early churches were in Asia Minor. Antioch was more important to the Crusaders than Jerusalem. And is Galilee really just a word meaning district or circle? Perhaps they meant circles like these:



Which reminds me of Druid circles. Which fits if the name is related to Gal, a term that accompanies Celtic settlements. For what it's worth there was also a Scythian Scythopolis nearby. And the Druze live around here too. Maybe Druze/Druid is not just a phoentic coincidence. By the way, they (like people claiming Scythian ancestry) think they are one of the "Lost Tribes"

As I mentioned a long while back, the oldest bibles are written in Greek. The NT most definitely was never written in a language other than Greek. The Greek Hebrew translation story of the OT is considered a myth and the DSS have reliability issues. Jesus preaches Hellenistic philosophy while quoting OT scripture in Greek. What came first? The OT or the NT? The NT takes place mostly in Asia Minor. Where does Palestine fit into this at all? It really doesn't.

Whose history is this? Serious question. Jewish traditions and ancestry seems to be distantly related to other Aryan peoples, originating in Central Asia and migrating after a catastrophe. But the paths split there and from that point on they seem to share a history with Turks.

The OT isn't a history book and whatever history occurs probably didn't just occur in Palestine. Biblical prophecy is mostly likely always referring to events that happened. People who think prophecy is being fulfilled need to understand that self-fulfilling prophecies are not prophecies.

There is a thread on the religious sub-forum called something like Jesus was a druid. Maybe that's not far from the truth. One thing is clear to me, there are a lot of confused gentiles and Jews following corrupted biblical nonsense being mislead by a religious agenda. Talmudic Jews follow a different religion, the Pharisee religion which is all about ruling over nations. A survival program that has been revised when it fails. I would say that Marxism and Zionism are probably born from it. They've corrupted old world beliefs in order to mislead everybody in accepting their agenda.

It's a very old agenda and unfortunately it looks like it's working out better than ever. But we've been at this junction for. Muslims and Jews once got along just fine in Moorish Iberia.

Quote:
Chief Rabbi of Edirne and wrote a letter inviting the European Jewry to settle in the Ottoman Empire, in which he stated that: "Turkey is a land wherein nothing is lacking" and asking: "Is it not better for you to live under Muslims than under Christians?"
The Jewish "golden age" happened among Muslims in Moorish Iberia. After the Spanish Inquisition, the Ottoman Sultan welcomed them with open arms to settle in Constantinople where they even established a Sanhedrin.



From a 12th or 13th century map drawn by an Iberian Jew showing Jewish trade routes. Note the hexagram. Is that really the Star of David? Or the Seal of Suleiman the Magnificent? Those Turkish Jews are still in Turkey today. They are called Donmeh:


And they were heavily involved in the Young Turk movement (including the various 'genocides'), the independent Turkish government, and the secularization. Some say if the Sultan would have given Herzl Palestine this would have never happened.....

When Jesus says he came for the lost sheep of Israel, what does that mean anyway? Is it just nonsense? Why did Josephus think the Lost Tribes were now numerous and unaccountable?

The traditional story is BS. They were not expelled after a temple was destroyed. There were way to many Jews in Europe. Or at least people confused for Jews. I've heard a strange theory that said Celtic people are "Jewish" so-to-speak. Or the 'real Jews' as British Israelism claims. The word Eber (Ibiri from Abraham, possibly Hebrew) did seem to follow Celtic sailors around. Iberia as Spain or Ireland (also Hibernia). Siberia. Caucasian Iberia. Maybe there is something to those British Israelism claims and also Scythian/Trojan ancestry.

And speaking of Scythians, the Indo-Scythians were in the Indus Valley. Irish myths claim they are descended from Scythians and Phoenicians. The Tuatha De Danann were legendary pre-Celt (or part Celt, I forget) people of Ireland who were translated as both Aesir and Israel in some medeval sources. It means Tribe of Goddes Danann. Tribe of Dan is usually placed near Phoenicia and they lived in their ships... like Phoenicians.

Could some partially bronze age religion really catch on among Europeans the way that it did? Oh I know that pagans were persecuted and stuff, but it seems like an unlikely feat unless it was already a widespread (but differing) system of beliefs. Either way it has a lot to do with both our own history as well as Jewish history.

Jacob (Israel) apparently means "leg puller". Jacob the birthright stealer. Are they pulling our leg?
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Old 17-01-2013, 11:36 PM   #53
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what do you think Jews think about the Talmud ?? a book of parables ?? no, they believe it's an authentic book

what are you going to deny Jews don't believe the Babylonian Talmud ??
This is a fact, and I did mean to mention it in the post about the "massacre". They even have a rhetorical technique for literally analyzing the text and interpreting it:


Basically the same thing lawyers do. So yeah maybe a handful read it symbolically, but the majority are taking it literally. They believe that millions of Jews were killed by Romans because the symbolism is lost on them.

Especially over in modern "Israel" today where they are breeding Zionist psychopaths without no empathy. Psychopaths cannot understand abstract words, symbolism makes no sense to them.
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Old 18-01-2013, 12:34 AM   #54
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I think we have to fill in some info on Abraham here.
First we have learned that he came from a place called "Ur". Doesn't "Ur" simply mean "City", and "Urim" would be plural or "Cities"?

This is an article that discusses the likelihood of Abraham being one and the same as Brahma. Wife's name is the same as well others. It also goes on to give some of the connections discussed here.
http://www.hermetics.org/Abraham2.html

I have not reread this whole thing, but I think somewhere I have another similar that says that these people were the Hyksos/Israelites and that they were expelled from Egypt during the reign of Pharaoh Ahmose. They didn't all leave at once, but over a period of hundreds of years. I think it was on forbiddenknowledge.com which has vanished.
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Old 18-01-2013, 01:07 AM   #55
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I think we have to fill in some info on Abraham here.
First we have learned that he came from a place called "Ur". Doesn't "Ur" simply mean "City", and "Urim" would be plural or "Cities"?

This is an article that discusses the likelihood of Abraham being one and the same as Brahma. Wife's name is the same as well others. It also goes on to give some of the connections discussed here.
http://www.hermetics.org/Abraham2.html

I have not reread this whole thing, but I think somewhere I have another similar that says that these people were the Hyksos/Israelites and that they were expelled from Egypt during the reign of Pharaoh Ahmose. They didn't all leave at once, but over a period of hundreds of years. I think it was on forbiddenknowledge.com which has vanished.
I've read that Ur could mean city and also read that Ur was an actual city in Iraq (near modern Nasiriyah). Chaldees is translated from Kasdim though (allegedly). I also read that it could be Urkesh:


I wasn't able to find anything Indian about the word Kasdim. It's similar to Kashmir, but that's a bit of a stretch. The Kash part of Kashmir refers to Kush or Cush, so perhaps Kasdim does as well. Which people foolishly place in Ethiopian most of the time forgetting that Cush/Kush also applied to India.

BTW, I no longer think they were Hyksos

http://www.reshafim.org.il/ad/egypt/texts/ipuwer.htm

This is the Ipuwer Papyrus. Like the Story of Wenamun, for some reason Egyptologists don't like them and I've read how some people think they are fictional. The Story of Wenamun basically shows that Egypt's power in the Canaan was gone and a merchant class had taken over their previous vassals. IMO, the story is downplayed because the merchant class is still around so-to-speak. And still a major player.

The Ipuwer Papyrus is probably dated to one of the intermediate periods. It might be a record of the state of things after the Hyksos put themselves in charge. It mentions how the upper class were like slaves and the former slaves were the upper class. Most people would read it and think that the way it should be, but it goes on to mention that craftsmen are no longer craftsmen and unskilled losers have taken their place and basically don't know how it works. Sounds like it is justifying a 'caste' system based on skills. In some ways I think such a system is desirable because clearly we are all different in abilities and what we want to do is not normally what we should do. Just saying.

It also reports mass death, robberies, the Nile full of a red blood-like substance that came from the sky, desertification. IMO the reason why this is downplayed is because it alludes to the aftermath of catastrophe. Anyways, bible historians think this refers to the exodus plagues meaning that Moses & co left before the Hyksos came. If you believe such a thing, then it means that Egypt brought the Hyksos in to work on monuments and then shit went down and they became powerful.

I don't think we'll ever know the answer. Hyksos might have been Assyrians. Or Indians. Or even East Asians. Possibly even Greeks. And they might have been Hebrews. We don't know, the historical record is unfortunately full of holes. The Jews, on the other hand, appear to have taken Egyptian traditions with them. Perhaps another way to look at it is the exodus pharaoh was not from traditional Egyptian lineage. If it is even true

BTW - that's interesting from that link that Voltaire came to a similar conclusion. I didn't know that

Last edited by believenothing; 18-01-2013 at 01:08 AM.
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Old 18-01-2013, 01:13 AM   #56
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I'm not sure if i don't understand the purpose of this question

you mean praying in another language ?? sure, but only Qur'an & words of the Five daily prayers are to be read in Arabic

the rest is to be in any language
Qur'an ??

Huh ??

I thought we was discussing Jews....
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Old 18-01-2013, 01:23 AM   #57
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Qur'an ??

Huh ??

I thought we was discussing Jews....
you asked if they have the right to pray in unknown tongue

i think i misunderstood the question so i told you about me, sorry....


anyway, i don't so, I saw a lot of Jews praying in Hebrew but i didn't see any of them pray in a foreign language
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Old 18-01-2013, 01:23 AM   #58
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Jacob (Israel) apparently means "leg puller". Jacob the birthright stealer. Are they pulling our leg?
Hebrew word for "leg" = shuti

On the seventh leg he rested

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Old 18-01-2013, 01:24 AM   #59
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If anybody is reading this, I recommend this link:

http://www.sacred-texts.com/cla/af/af01.htm

It's the only record of Phoenician history which has survived. And it's a short read too. I just wanted to highlight something I think is very important:

Quote:
But the auxiliaries of Ilus, who is Cronus, were called Eloeim, as it were, the allies of Cronus; being so called after Cronus. And Cronus, having a son called Sadidus, dispatched him with his own sword, because he held him in suspicion, and with his own hand deprived his child of life. And in like manner he cut off the head of his own daughter, so that all the gods were astonished at the disposition of Cronus.

But in process of time, whilst Ouranus was still in banishment, he sent his daughter Astarte, being a virgin, with two other of her sisters, Rhea and Dione, to cut off Cronus by treachery; but Cronus took the damsels, and married them notwithstanding they were his own sisters. When Ouranus understood this, he sent Eimarmene and Mora with other auxiliaries to make war against Cronus: but Cronus gained the affections of these also, and detained them with himself. Moreover, the god Ouranus devised Bætulia, contriving stones that moved as having life.
Cronus is Saturn

"Ilus, who is Cronus"

This is repeated several times. Ilus - Yeus more or less. And it's also where El comes from.

"But the auxiliaries of Ilus, who is Cronus, were called Eloeim, as it were, the allies of Cronus; being so called after Cronus"

NOW WE ARE GETTING SOMEWHERE!!! Elohim = The Abrahamic and Jewish god. As I said earlier it is plural. The 'scripture' has been vandalized and corrupted, the 'believers' have been mislead. Elohim are the agents of Saturn

CUT OFF = CIRCUMCISION

Quote:
Ouranus then made war against Pontus, but afterwards relinquishing the attack he attached himself to Demarous, when Demarous invaded Pontus: but Pontus put him to flight, and Demarous vowed a sacrifice for his escape.

In the thirty-second year of his power and reign, Ilus, who is Cronus, having laid an ambuscade for his father Ouranus in a certain place situated in the middle of the earth, when he had got him into his hands dismembered him over against the fountains and rivers. There Ouranus was consecrated, and his spirit was separated, and the blood of his parts flowed into the fountains and the waters of the rivers; and the place, which was the scene of this transaction, is shewed even to this day.

(Then our historian, after some other things, goes on thus But Astarte called the greatest, and Demarous named Zeus, and Adodus who is entitled the king of gods, reigned over the country by the consent of Cronus: and Astarte put upon her head, as the mark of her sovereignty, a bull's head: and travelling about the habitable world, she found a star falling through the air, which she took up, and consecrated in the holy island of Tyre: and the Phœnicians say that Astarte is the same as Aphrodite.

Moreover, Cronus visiting the different regions of habitable world, gave to his daughter Athena the kingdom of Attica: and when there happened a plague with a great mortality, Cronus offered up his only begotten son as a sacrifice to his father Ouranus, and circumcised himself, and compelled his allies to do the same: and not long afterwards he consecrated after his death another of his sons, called Muth, whom he had by Rhea; this (Muth) the Phœnicians esteem the same as Death and Pluto.

After these things, Cronus gave the city of Byblus to the goddess Baaltis, which is Dione, and Berytus to Poseidon, and to the Caberi who were husbandmen and fishermen: and they consecrated the remains of Pontus at Berytus.
Sacrificed his only begotten son? Circumcise could be alluding to being 'cut off'

Quote:
OF THE MYSTICAL SACRIFICE OF THE PHŒNICIANS.

It was the custom among the ancients, in times of great calamity, in order to prevent the ruin of all, for the rulers of the city or nation to sacrifice to the avenging deities the most beloved of their children as the price of redemption: they who were devoted this purpose were offered mystically. For Cronus, whom the Phœnicians call Il, and who after his death was deified and instated in the planet which bears his name, when king, had by a nymph of the country called Anobret an only son, who on that account is styled Ieoud, for so the Phœnicians still call an only son: and when great dangers from war beset the land he adorned the altar, and invested this son with the emblems of royalty, and sacrificed him.
Is this a spiritual sacrifice that was corrupted into human sacrifice? Or was it always human sacrifice? Either way I'm pretty sure this is what the Isaac 'holocaust' was alluding to.

This link is only a fragment of the original. Like I said before, the Phoenicians are probably the most important group of people in history yet we know so little about them. What we know is fragmented. Perhaps the people who are trying to hide this history are the ones who themselves wish to remain hidden? The Cronus/Saturn myth is similar to the Greek one with the exception that Zeus is 'approved' to run things rather than usurp Cronus. Interesting. I wonder what it all means?

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Old 18-01-2013, 01:29 AM   #60
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you asked if they have the right to pray in unknown tongue

i think i misunderstood the question so i told you about me, sorry....


anyway, i don't so, I saw a lot of Jews praying in Hebrew but i didn't see any of them pray in a foreign language
unknown tongue does not mean 'foreign language'-- it means practicing their religion in methods you would not understand, speaking and using methods unknown to you
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