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Old 10-01-2013, 12:23 AM   #1
believenothing
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Default Jewish History

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To the Jews belonged an absolutely extraordinary role in the origin of the perception of history, in an intense feeling of historic destiny, namely the start of the 'historic' was introduced into the worldwide life of mankind by the Jews.

The Jews have a central significance in history. The Jewish people are, predominately, a people of history, and in their historic destiny is felt the inscrutability of the divine decrees. When a materialistic sense of history attracted me, when I was trying to test it for the destinies of peoples, it seemed to me that the historical destiny of the Jewish people was the greatest obstacle to it ; from the perspective of the materialistic, this destiny is completely inexplicable. It must be said that from any materialistic and positivistic historical point of view, this people should have ceased to exist. Its existence is a strange, mysterious and wonderful phenomenon, which shows that special designs are connected with the destiny of this people. The survival of the Jewish people in history, their resistance to destruction, their existence as one of the most ancient peoples of the world in completely extraordinary conditions, that fateful role which this people plays in history - it all points at the particular, mystic foundations of its historic destiny. A particularly strained dramatic quality of history plays out around the destiny of the Jews.

Nikolai Berdyaev, "The Meaning of History"
Who are the Jews and where did they come from?

This is a question that few people know and even fewer can truthfully answer. We are told they are a people of an ancient tradition dating back to the Bronze Age who still exist in the modern era against all odds. Along the way they have (allegedly) suffered from persecution and genocide but somehow still were able to survive and win their autonomy quite often and quite often found themselves in league with the elite and the royalty. Other ancient people such as the Romans and Greek have long disappeared into history but the Jews outlived them all. So it is claimed anyways.

The definition of Jewish

There is no real universal Jewish consensus defining what it is to be Jewish. Being Jewish currently means belonging to an ethno-religious group called the Jewish people or Jewish nation. Most Jews are born Jewish and according to Jewish religious law or halakha, if both parents are not Jewish the child inherits their Jewishness from the mother. If only the father is Jewish, the child needs to be "converted" to Judaism. Non-Jews can also become Jewish by converting to Judaism.

Again, there is no universal definition and exceptions do exist in some cases.

Jews as a race or ethnicity

Jews are not really a race but many of them consider Jewish to be an ethnicity. You don't need to be ethnically Jewish to convert to Judaism and be Jewish, but if you are born Jewish and don't practice the religion you are still Jewish and if you are female so are your offspring (which continues to be carried on if the offsrping are female according to the above common definition). The majority of Jews are secular and many of them are atheist. That is they aren't even religious. Most Jews (80%-90%) are Ashkenazi Jews from Eastern Europe. They are not really genetically distinct from other Eastern Europeans, however, generations of selective breeding (among fellow Jews) has very much created an ethnicity which can be identified with certain DNA markings. Yet there are Jews such as the Ethiopian Beta Israel who genetically are not related to Ashkenazim (for the most part). Ashkenazi Jews constitute what should be considered as an ethnicity for the most part, but I don't think Jews were always genetically distinct. More on that in a bit

History of the Jews

Biblical account:

Abraham is a biblical patriarch and progenitor of the Jews. According to the bible at least. Abraham is a 75-year-old Chaldean (from modern Iraq) wow takes his wife Sarai and nephew Lot to the land of Canaan (Palestine) because god tells him to and tells him he'll make him a great nation.

They move around during a series of events involving famine, plague, war, god's genocidal wrath, and eventually god makes a covenant with Abraham in a vision telling him his future offspring will be slaves in Egypt and he also basically "gives" Abraham the entire Levant and part of Turkey. To mark this convenant, Abraham's offspring sacrifice a portion of their penis in a ritual called circumcision. Abraham has a child named Ishmael with Sarai's handmaid Hagar. Ishmael is the progenitor of all Arabs apparently. But Ishmael isn't the one god was talking about either, however, god says he'll make a great nation for Ishmael too.

Sarai can't have children (she is barren) and she's really old, but god allows her to have a child, Isaac. Sarai is renamed Sarah. God commands Abraham to sacrifice Isaac in a holocaust which he does until an angel stops him.

Isaac has two major children named Esau and Jacob. Esau is a red-haired hairy Neanderthal or something. Jacob steals his birthright and later wrestles with an angel for which he is named Israel. Jacob has a bunch of kids whose offspring are called the Israelites. They wind up in Egypt and one of them practices an early form of usury which is probably why the future offspring winds up in bondage.

After several generations, the Pharaoh of Egypt doesn't like their birthrate and starts having all the newborn male Israelites/Hebrews killed. Moses is saved by his mother in a basket in the river just like Sargon of Akkad. He's raised by a pharaoh or something like that and apparently is indoctrinated in something very similar to a Thoth priest. Aware of his origins, after killing an Egyptian and fleeing and returning and asking for his people to be freed, the Pharaoh says no, god sends a plague, the Pharaoh allows the Hebrews to be freed but changes his mind and follows them on their way to Canaan. Moses and god part the Red Sea and the Hebrews pass while the Pharaoh and his men drown.

After wandering in the desert for 40 years and eating something called manna to stay alive, the Hebrews come to Canaan and slaughter the original inhabitants with god's help. God gives instructions to Moses for building a temple of worship and commandments of law for the Hebrews (divided into 12 tribes) who ignore them and take up the local Canaanite religion which invokes the wrath of God.

Some time and a bunch of wars later they become a united monarchy but eventually they are conquered by Assyrians who take 10 tribes with them which are then lost. Eventually the others are conquered, their temple is destroyed, and they find themselves in captivity again this time in Babylon.

Much later on the Romans pretty much do the same thing and send them into slavery but before this happened Cyrus the Great saves them from captivity and sends them back to found a kingdom in Palestine which is what the Romans conquer. Eventually they win their freedom (sort of) and by now are a mix of Levantine people (not a race, just a religion/tradition). From here on out it's pretty boring but apparently Jewish priests called Pharisees have Jesus killed for being rebellious to their order and status quo.

THIS IS NOT REAL HISTORY!!!

The bible is not a history book. Although Gaza (where the Philistines lived) shows evidence of being destroyed several times, there is nothing in the historical or archeological record which verifies any of the above information. Even from the neighboring kingdoms, whose surviving records match the surviving records of other neighboring kingdoms. Egypt records nothing remotely similar to the exodus and Moses is a generic title meaning 'son of'.

One of the oldest surviving records of history is Herodotus' The Histories dating to the 5th century BC. Herodotus never mentions Jews or even strange traditions (to the Greeks) such as monotheism when referring to the region where the Jewish kingdoms were supposed to be:

Quote:
The Egyptians did, however, say that they thought the original Colchians were men from Sesostris' army. My own idea on the subject was based first on the fact that they have black skins and woolly hair (not that that amounts to much, as other nations have the same), and secondly, and more especially, on the fact that the Colchians, the Egyptians, and the Ethiopians are the only races which from ancient times have practised circumcision. The Phoenicians and the Syrians of Palestine themselves admit that they learned the practice from Egypt, and the Syrians who live near the rivers Thermodon and Parthenius, as well as their neighbours the Macronians, say that they learnt it only a short time ago from the Colchians. No other nations use circumcision, and all these are without doubt following the Egyptian lead. As between the Egyptians and the Ethiopians, I cannot say which learn from the other, for the custom is evidentially a very ancient one; but I have no doubt that the other nations adopted it as the result of their intercourse with Egypt, and in this belief I am strongly supported by the fact that Phoenicians who have contact with Greece drop the Egyptian usage, and allow their children to go uncircumcised.

...

Fifth: from the town of Posideiium, which was founded by Amphilochus, son of Amphiaraus, on the border between Cilicia and Syria, as far as Egypt – omitting Arabian territory, which was free of tax – came 350 talents. This province contains the whole of Phoenicia and that part of Syria which is called Palestine, and Cyprus.

...

The Phoenicians, with the Syrians of Palestine, contributed 300. The crews wore helmets very like the Greek ones, and linen corslets; they were armed with rimless shields and javelins. These people have a tradition that in ancient times they lived on the Persian Gulf, but migrated to the Syrian coast, where they are found today. This part of Syria, together with the country which extends southward to Egypt, is all known as Palestine.
No mention of Jews or any of their traditions other than circumcision which is not Jewish in origin. Note how the name of this region is Palestine and Syria, not Judea. There does exist references to a city named Jerusalem and/or Salem in other records in history, but this is the Canaanite name for the city which even the bible admits. There was no Judah or Judea nor were there a Samaria or an Israel. Around this same period of time there were Jews nearby in Elephantine near Egypt. These Jews seemed to be a military client 'state' of the Persians. They also were polytheistic. Interesting:


Virtually nothing archeological alleged to be related to biblical events corresponds with the biblical events in any way other than conjectured interpretations of names which doesn't mean anything to begin with because many people shared names. It is unknown when the name "Israel" enters the history books because the artifacts that are claimed to say Israel (which are usually not within the context of anything biblical to begin with) are SR words without vowels. SR could mean Syria and in fact historians usually translated SR words as Syria after the 8th century BC when the biblical Jewish kingdom had fallen. Syria is a word used by ancient Aramaic speakers referring to themselves. Could Syria and Israel share a similar etymology? It's possible.

Yahweh worship was common to the region and not limited to the Jews. The Shasu, desert nomads, worshipped Yahweh:


And it is possible that the word Hebrew is related to Habiru, desert nomads, bandits, and mercs who lived along the highlands:


No archeological evidence has ever dug up any grand kingdoms of David and Solomon or found the ruins of Sodom and Gomorrah and anything of that sort.

Going by the historical and archeological record, there are no Jews in Palestine until the 6th century BC. Jewish history is supposed to extend much further back, some say even to 1,500 BC but there is no proof. What we do know is that they did adopt Canaanite traditions as well as traditions from all over the Middle East. There is especially an Egyptian influence on the bible as well as a Babylonian influence but I think the Egyptians also influenced the Babylonians.

So it is very likely they came from Egypt but if so, when? Or is it possible they have another origin altogether?

Quote:
"Jews are derived from the Indian philosophers; they are named by the Indians Calami, and by the Syrians Judaei, and took their name from the country they inhabit, which is called Judea; but for the name of their city, it is a very awkward one, for they call it Jerusalem."
According to Josephus quoting Clearchus of Soli at least. This was repeated by other Hellenistic Jews including Philo of Alexandria who claimed that even Plato was following Judaic philosophy. Some people have tried to link Phoenician merchants with Jewish merchants and claim Phoenicians were the biblical tribe of Dan. Phoenicians traveled to the Mediterranean from the Persian Gulf. Through the Persian to Arabian Gulf and up the Red Sea there are several pockets of ancient Jews. Perhaps there is some truth to it. One thing that is for sure is that their presence does not seem to have been documented until the Persians conquered the area. It's almost as if they were subjugated to the Persians and represented their presence.

Even though there are Jews from this point onward, their history is still very mysterious. It is nearly impossible to separate Roman Jews from early Christians, and the presence of Jews in Rome cannot be explained by expulsion or slavery in diaspora. More on that later. And without going into more detail at the moment, there are several groups of people who follow some Judaic rites. Not just along the Red Sea, but also among at least one central African group. Afghan tribes have also made this claim as have some Indian Jews. Japan even has some customs in their Shinto religion that are somewhat similar to Israelite customs. One explanation for this is this route, ending at Japan, was the Silk Road in ancient times. But there could be other suggestions which I'll speculate later on in this thread.

Last edited by believenothing; 10-01-2013 at 04:07 AM.
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Old 10-01-2013, 02:12 AM   #2
believenothing
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Default The word "Jew"

The word "Jew" is pronounced in Semitic languages as Yehud or Yehudi, the plural being Yehudim. This is supposed to derived from the tribe of Judah (Yehuda) which is also supposed to be the name for the biblical kingdom (either on its own or as the Southern portion of the united kingdom of Israel) which no historical or archeological evidence has ever verified until after around the 6th century BC. The elephantine papyri or letters refer to a kingdom called Yehud. It is assumed this is referring to the part of Palestine which biblical historians claim was Judah.

Roman Judea

Under the Romans, it became a providence called Judea. In Greek it is called Ιουδαία and in Latin Iudaea. Residents are called Ιουδαίος which translates as Jew but used to mean Judean (and I think the Greek was a little different too). As in people who lived in Judea. If Josephus' quote from Clearchus of Soli is true, the people were named for the country and not vice versa and not from the tribe of Judah. I'm not sure if that's true or not, but it is rather interesting.

Also an interesting side note is that the Koran makes a distinction between Jews and the "children of Israel". It could very well be a historical error to make Israelites/Hebrews/Jews/Judeans synonymous with one another as one people. And speaking of one people, even the Jewish king Herod was not ethnically Jewish despite being the king and imposing Jewish customs (including circumcision) on Judea province. Herod was Nabatean and Edomite. He may have had a half "Jewish" relative from one side and he did "practice" (and again impose) Judaism. This wasn't recognized at the time by some Pharisee priests, however.

Essenes

After Herod's time was the so-called Jewish war which Josephus is practically the only source of and he did not even witness it. His sources are also a bit suspicious. Around this same time in history we have historical information regarding Jews including two sects (besides the infamous Pharisees and Sadducees of biblical fame) practicing a very "Zen" Buddhist monk sort of minimalist lifestyle. They are called Nazarenes and Essenes, they do live in Palestine, and Jews they may be (as in Judeans) but accounts conflict regarding their 'race' or ethnicity. Josephus says they are diverse and then goes on to say they are a 'race' of 'Jews' for example. Could be a translation issue. The Dead Sea Scrolls are often attributed to the Essenes but there is no proof of this or ultimately any proof of the antiquity or even authenticity of the Scrolls (The scrolls have a very shady history: http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=77604)

I will not go into detail or argue about the historicity of Jesus. The Nazarenes and Essenes were not unlike Jesus and it's possible that Jesus was a Nazarene given the similarity to Nazareth. Pliny the Elder wrote of the Essenes in what would have been the lifetime attributed to Jesus. Philo of Alexandria also wrote about them around the same time and made it sound as though the Hellenistic Jewish philosophers of Alexandria, such as himself, were very similar in overall school of philosophy to the Essenes. This was also around the same time period where early Christianity was being practiced and nearly synonymous with Hellenistic Judaism.

Philo was a major influence on early Christianity. Again, Philo claimed that Hellenistic philosophy was "Jewish" and again it was also claimed to be "Eastern" as in from India. The teaching outlined by Jesus in the biblical gospels is not unlike Hellenistic philosophy in the first place. That and the oldest written sources of the gospels are written in Greek. Same with Philo, Philo most certainly did not understand the so-called Hebrew language. More on that particular language later. Philo on Essenes:

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They do not offer animal sacrifice, judging it more fitting to render their minds truly holy. They flee the cities and live in villages where clean air and clean social life abound. They either work in the fields or in crafts that countribute to peace. They do not hoard silver and gold and do not acquire great landholdings; procuring for themselves only what is necessary for life. Thus they live without goods and without property, not by missfortune, but out of preference. They do not make armaments of any kind. They do not keep slaves and detest slavery. They avoid wholesale and retail commerce, believing that such activity excites one to cupidity. With respect to philosophy, they dismiss logic but have an extremely high regard for virtue. They honor the Sabbath with great respect over the other days of the week. They have an internal rule which all learn, together with rules on piety, holiness, justice and the knowledge of good and bad. These they make use of in the form of triple definitions, rules regarding the love of God, the love of virtue, and the love of men. They believe God causes all good but cannot be the cause of any evil. They honor virtue by foregoing all riches, glory and pleasure. Further, they are convinced they must be modest, quiet, obedient to the rule, simple, frugal and without mirth. Their life style is communal. They have a common purse. Their salaries they deposit before them all, in the midst of them, to be put to the common employment of those who wish to make use of it. They do not neglect the sick on the pretext that they can produce nothing. With the common purse there is plenty from which to treat all illnesses. They lavish great respect on the elderly. With them they are very generous and surround them with a thousand attentions. They practice virtue like a gymnastic exercise, seeing the accomplishment of praiseworthy deeds as the means by which a man ensures absolute freedom for himself."

...

The Essenes live in a number of towns in Judea, and also in many villages and in large groups. They do not enlist by race, but by volunteers who have a zeal for righteousness and an ardent love of men. For this reason there are no young children among the Essenes. Not even adolescents or young men. Instead they are men of old or ripe years who have learned how to control their bodily passions. They possess nothing of their own, not house, field, slave nor flocks, nor anything which feeds and procures wealth. They live together in brotherhoods, and eat in common together. Everything they do is for the common good of the group. They work at many different jobs and attack their work with amazing zeal and dedication, working from before sunrise to almost sunset without complaint, but in obvious exhilaration. Their exercise is their work. Indeed, they believe their own training to be more agreeable to body and soul, and more lasting, than athletic games, since their exercises remain fitted to their age, even when the body no longer possesses its full strength. They are farmers and shepherds and beekeepers and craftsmen in diverse trades. They share the same way of life, the same table, even the same tastes; all of them loving frugality and hating luxury as a plague for both body and soul. Not only do they share a common table, but common clothes as well. What belongs to one belongs to all. Available to all of them are thick coats for winter and inexpensive light tunics for summer. Seeing it as an obstacle to communal life, they have banned marriage.
Josephus:

Quote:
"The sect of the Essenes maintain that Fate governs all things, and that nothing can befall man contrary to its determination and will.These men live the same kind of life which among the Greeks has been ordered by Pythagoras."

"The Essenes are Jews by race, but are more closely united among themselves by mutual affection, and by their efforts to cultivate a particularly saintly life. They renounce pleasure as an evil, and regard continence and resistance to passions as a virtue. They disdain marriage for themselves, being content to adopt the children of others at a tender age in order to instruct them. They do not abolish marriage, but are convinced women are all licentious and incapable of fidelity to one man. They despise riches. When they enter the sect, they must surrender all of their money and possessions into the common fund, to be put at the disposal of everyone; one single property for the whole group. Therefore neither the humiliation of poverty nor the pride of possession is to be seen anywhere among them. They regard oil as a defilement, and should any of them be involuntarily anointed, he wipes his body clean. They make a point of having their skin dry and of always being clothed in white garments. In their various communal offices, the administrators are elected and appointed without distinction offices. They are not just in one town only, but in every town several of them form a colony. They welcome members from out of town as coequal brothers, and even though perfect strangers, as though they were intimate friends. For this reason they carry nothing with them ashen they travel: they are, however, armed against brigands. They do not change their garments or shoes until they have completely worn out. They neither buy nor sell anything among themselves. They give to each other freely and feel no need to repay anything in exchange. Before sunrise they recite certain ancestral prayers to the sun as though entreating it to rise. They work until about 11 A.M. when they put on ritual loincloths and bathe for purification. Then they enter a communal hall,where no one else is allowed,and eat only one bowlful of food for each man, ! together with their loaves of bread. They eat in silence. Afterwards they lay aside their sacred garment and go back to work until the evening. At evening they partake dinner in the same manner. During meals they are sober and quiet and their silence seems a great mystery to people outside. Their food and drink are so measured out that they are satisfied but no more. They see bodily pleasure as sinful. On the whole they do nothing unless ordered by their superiors, but two things they are allowed to do on their own discretion: to help those 'worthy of help', and to offer food to the needy. They are not allowed, however, to help members of their own families without permission from superiors. They are very careful not to exhibit their anger, carefully controlling such outbursts. They are very loyal and are peacemakers. They refuse to swear oaths, believing every word they speak to be stronger than an oath. They are scrupulous students of the ancient literature. They are ardent students in the healing of diseases, of the roots offering protection, and of the properties of stones. Those desiring to enter the sect are not allowed immediate entrance. They are made to wait outside for a period of one year. During this time each postulant is given a hatchet, a loincloth and a white garment. The hatchet is used for cleanliness in stooling for digging and covering up the hole. Having proved his constinence during the first year he draws closer to the way of life and participates in the purificatory baths at a higher degree, but he is not yet admitted into intimacy. His character is tested another two years and if 'ne proves worthy he is received into the company permanently.
They are sworn to love truth and to pursue liars. They must never steal. They are not allowed to keep any secrets from other members of the sect; but they are warned to reveal nothing to outsiders, even under the pain of death. They are not allowed to alter the 'books of the sect, and must keep all the information secret, especially the names of the angels. The name of the Lawgiver, after God, is a matter of great veneration to them; if anyone blasphemed the name of the Lawgiver he was sentenced to death. Those members convicted of grave faults are expelled from the order. In matters of judgement Essene leaders are very exact and impartial. Their decisions are irrevocable. They are so scrupulous in matters pertaining to the Sabbath day that they refuse even to go to stool on that day, They always give way to the opinion of the majority, and they make it their duty to obey their elders. They are divided into four lots according to the duration of thier discipline, and the juniors are so inferior to their elders that if the latter touch them, they wash themselves as though they had been in contact with a stranger. They despise danger: they triumph over pain by the heroism of their convictions, and consider death, if it comes with glory, to be better than the preservation of life. They died in great glory amidst terrible torture in the war against the Romans. They believe that their souls are immortal, but that their bodies are corruptible. They believe the soul is trapped in the body and is freed with death. They believe that there is a place 'across the ocean' where just souls gather, a place reserved for the immortal souls of the just. The souls of the wicked, however, are relegated to a dark pit, shaken by storms and full of unending chastisement. Some of the Essenes became expert in forecasting the future."

...

"The Essenes declare that souls are immortal and consider it necessary to struggle to obtain the reward of righteousness. They send offerings to the Temple, but offer no sacrifices since the purifications to which they are accustomed are different. For this reason, they refrain from entering into the common enclosure, but offer sacrifice among themselves. They are holy men and completely given up to agricultural labor."
Pliny:

Quote:
"To the west (of the Dead Sea) the Essenes have put the necessary distance between themselves and the insalubrious shore. They are a people unique of its kind and admirable beyond all others in the whole world; without women and renouncing love entirely, without money and having for company only palm trees. Owing to the throng of newcomers, this people is daily reborn in equal number; indeed, those whom, wearied by the fluctuations of fortune, life leads to adopt their customs, stream in in great numbers. Thus, unbeleivable though this may seem, for thousands of centuries a people has existed which is eternal yet into which no one is born: so fruitful for them is the repentance which others feel for their past lives!"
Only the Pharisees survived this period of history. Sadducees did not although some claim the Karaites and Samaritans are their successors (doubtful). Pharisees went on to develop Rabbinic Judaism and the Talmud. The Jewish religion follows Pharisee traditions and was mostly developed in Baghdad, Iraq where there were Jewish schools for centuries.

Strabo on the Jews of Judea:

Quote:
By such doctrine Moses persuaded a large body of right-minded persons to accompany him to the place where Jerusalem now stands. He easily obtained possession of it as the spot was not such as to excite jealousy, nor for which there could be any fierce contention; for it is rocky, and, although well supplied with water, it is surrounded by a barren and waterless territory. The space within the city is 60 stadia in circumference, with rock underneath the surface. Instead of arms, he taught that their defense was in their sacred things and the Divinity, for whom he was desirous of finding a settled place, promising to the people to deliver such a kind of worship and religion as should not burden those who adopted it with great expense, nor molest them with so-called divine possessions, nor other absurd practices. Moses thus obtained their good opinion, and established no ordinary kind of government. All the nations around willingly united themselves to him, allured by his discourses and promises.

His successors continued for some time to observe the same conduct, doing justly, and worshipping God with sincerity. Afterwards superstitious persons were appointed to the priesthood, and then tyrants. From superstition arose abstinence from flesh, from the eating of which it is now the custom to refrain, circumcision, cliterodectomy, and other practices which the people observe. The tyrannical government produced robbery; for the rebels plundered both their own and the neighboring countries. Those also who shared in the government seized upon the property of others, and ravaged a large part of Syria and of Phoenicia. Respect, however, was paid to the Acropolis; it was not abhorred as the seat of tyranny, but honoured and venerated as a temple. . . .Such was Moses and his successors; their beginning was good, but they degenerated.
Strabo writes of Moses as a just person but then says the generations of his followers degenerated. Moses was identified with a legendary Greek poet named Musaeus by several Greek writers:


Philo, when writing about the Exodus, is not entirely convinced it is a historical account. His opinion is closer to that of Strabo's. Maybe Moses was just an ordinary person who left Egypt with a bunch of outcast followers of monotheism (Atenism?) setting up a kingdom on land nobody cared for (like near Jerusalem which is a terrible spot from a 'value' standpoint both strategic and resources). Was Moses an Egyptian priest who settled in (Jeru)Salem, Canaan with his Egyptian followers? Was the so-called 'Land of Israel' just fellow Canaanites, Syrians, and Phoenicians who were 'united' by Moses? Is this the real historical 'Land of Israel' or Judea? If it is, it didn't happen in antiquity and more likely happened closer to when the historical record begins to mention Jews (ex - 6th century BC and later). Unless Josepheus is to believed and the Israelites were in fact the exiled Egyptian Hyksos. And even if this is more likely the case, there is still a complete lack of proof.

Jews in Europe

From 'Roman History' by Cassius Dio, 2nd century AD:

Quote:
This was the course of events at that time in Palestine; for this is the name that has been given from of old to the whole country extending from Phoenicia to Egypt along the inner sea. They have also another name that they have acquired: the country has been named Judea, and the people themselves Jews. I do not know how this title came to be given to them, but it applies also to all the rest of mankind, although of alien race, who affect their customs. This class exists even among the Romans, and though often repressed has increased to a very great extent and has won its way to the right of freedom in its observances. They are distinguished from the rest of mankind in practically every detail of life, and especially by the fact that they do not honour any of the usual gods, but show extreme reverence for one particular divinity. They never had any statue of him even in Jerusalem itself, but believing him to be unnameable and invisible, they worship him in the most extravagant fashion on earth. They built to him a temple that was extremely large and beautiful, except in so far as it was open and roofless, and likewise dedicated to him the day called the day of Saturn, on which, among many other most peculiar observances, they undertake no serious occupation.

Now as for him, who he is and why he has been so honoured, and how they got their superstitious awe of him, accounts have been given by many, and moreover these matters have naught to do with this history.
Here Cassius Dio is pretty clearly writing about the racial (aka ethnic) difference between Jews in Rome and Jews in Palestine although he mentions they follow the same customs. He calls their customs a class which applies to all of mankind. In other words, at this point in history the Jews were not a people, race, ethnicity, kingdom, etc. but were instead a class of monotheistic customs and traditions with an invisible god responsible for everything living and non-living, something Romans thought was atheism.

The question is were the Jews Cassius Dio is referring to really Jews? Or were they early Christians?

Here is another historical account of the history of the Jews, this one from Tacitus' Histories, also dating to the second century:

Quote:
Some say that the Jews were fugitives from the island of Crete, who settled on the nearest coast of Africa about the time when Saturn was driven from his throne by the power of Jupiter. Evidence of this is sought in the name. There is a famous mountain in Crete called Ida; the neighboring tribe, the Idaei, came to be called Judaei by a barbarous lengthening of the national name. Others assert that in the reign of Isis the overflowing population of Egypt, led by Hierosolymus and Judas, discharged itself into the neighboring countries. (note at least one other historian whose name escapes me at the moment claims this particular story was a combination of myth and history combined with Jewish history -BN)

Many, again, say that they were a race of Ethiopian origin, who in the time of king Cepheus were driven by fear and hatred of their neighbors to seek a new dwelling-place. Others describe them as an Assyrian horde who, not having sufficient territory, took possession of part of Egypt, and founded cities of their own in what is called the Hebrew country, lying on the borders of Syria. (this is probably the Hyksos - BN)

Others, again, assign a very distinguished origin to the Jews, alleging that they were the Solymi, a nation celebrated in the poems of Homer, who called the city which they founded Hierosolyma after their own name. Most writers, however, agree in stating that once a disease, which horribly disfigured the body, broke out over Egypt; that king Bocchoris, seeking a remedy, consulted the oracle of Hammon, and was bidden to cleanse his realm, and to convey into some foreign land this race detested by the gods.

The people, who had been collected after diligent search, finding themselves left in a desert, sat for the most part in a stupor of grief, till one of the exiles, Moses by name, warned them not to look for any relief from God or man, forsaken as they were of both, but to trust to themselves, taking for their heaven-sent leader that man who should first help them to be quit of their present misery. They agreed, and in utter ignorance began to advance at random. Nothing, however, distressed them so much as the scarcity of water, and they had sunk ready to perish in all directions over the plain, when a herd of wild asses was seen to retire from their pasture to a rock shaded by trees. Moses followed them, and, guided by the appearance of a grassy spot, discovered an abundant spring of water. This furnished relief. After a continuous journey for six days, on the seventh they possessed themselves of a country, from which they expelled the inhabitants, and in which they founded a city and a temple.

Moses, wishing to secure for the future his authority over the nation, gave them a novel form of worship, opposed to all that is practiced by other men. Things sacred with us, with them have no sanctity, while they allow what with us is forbidden. In their holy place they have consecrated an image of the animal by whose guidance they found deliverance from their long and thirsty wanderings. They slay the ram, seemingly in derision of Hammon, and they sacrifice the ox, because the Egyptians worship it as Apis. They abstain from swine's flesh, in consideration of what they suffered when they were infected by the leprosy to which this animal is liable. By their frequent fasts they still bear witness to the long hunger of former days, and the Jewish bread, made without leaven, is retained as a memorial of their hurried seizure of corn. We are told that the rest of the seventh day was adopted, because this day brought with it a termination of their toils; after a while the charm of indolence beguiled them into giving up the seventh year also to inaction.

This worship, however introduced, is upheld by its antiquity; all their other customs, which are at once perverse and disgusting, owe their strength to their very badness. The most degraded out of other races, scorning their national beliefs, brought to them their contributions and presents. This augmented the wealth of the Jews, as also did the fact, that among themselves they are inflexibly honest and ever ready to shew compassion, though they regard the rest of mankind with all the hatred of enemies. They sit apart at meals, they sleep apart, and though, as a nation, they are singularly prone to lust, they abstain from intercourse with foreign women; among themselves nothing is unlawful. Circumcision was adopted by them as a mark of difference from other men. Those who come over to their religion adopt the practice, and have this lesson first instilled into them, to despise all gods, to disown their country, and set at nought parents, children, and brethren. Still they provide for the increase of their numbers. It is a crime among them to kill any newly-born infant. They hold that the souls of all who perish in battle or by the hands of the executioner are immortal. Hence a passion for propagating their race and a contempt for death. They are wont to bury rather than to burn their dead, following in this the Egyptian custom; they bestow the same care on the dead, and they hold the same belief about the lower world.

Quite different is their faith about things divine. The Egyptians worship many animals and images of monstrous form; the Jews have purely mental conceptions of Deity, as one in essence. They call those profane who make representations of God in human shape out of perishable materials. They believe that Being to be supreme and eternal, neither capable of representation, nor of decay. They therefore do not allow any images to stand in their cities, much less in their temples. This flattery is not paid to their kings, nor this honor to our Emperors. From the fact, however, that their priests used to chant to the music of flutes and cymbals, and to wear garlands of ivy, and that a golden vine was found in the temple, some have thought that they worshiped father Liber, the conqueror of the East, though their institutions do not by any means harmonize with the theory; for Liber established a festive and cheerful worship, while the Jewish religion is tasteless and mean.
Although Tacitus is apparently no fan of the Jewish traditions, that last part regarding Liber is referring to Dionysius. He is not the only historian to claim that Jewish customs and Dionysius mysteries were related on some level. Dionysius is associated with the East (as in origin), was a later addition to the gods, and had his origin myth re-written by the same Greek king (I think it was a king) who allegedly altered the works of Musaeus. He altered the Dionysius origin myth to include his death at the hands of Titans which was originally not part of the story. Dionysius/Bacchus has also been compared to Jesus and Osiris. Dionysius was said to have conquered India yet he is also said to have been imported from the East....

All Cretans are liars

In the biblical Epistle to Titus, it is written:

Quote:
One of Crete's own prophets has said it: 'Cretans are always liars, evil brutes, idle bellies'. He has surely told the truth. For this reason correct them sternly, that they may be sound in faith instead of paying attention to Jewish fables and to commandments of people who turn their backs on the truth.
There was apparently a Jewish presence on Crete in opposition to 'Christian' teachings, at least allegedly according to Saint Paul. This is a variation of the so-called liar's paradox of Epimenides:

Quote:
They fashioned a tomb for thee, O holy and high one
The Cretans, always liars, evil beasts, idle bellies!
But thou art not dead: thou livest and abidest forever,
For in thee we live and move and have our being.

Cretans believed Zeus was a mortal, not a divine god. And that he had died. The paradox comes from the "The Cretans, always liars" part because Epimenides was a Cretan. So if Cretans are always liars, how can Epimenides be trusted? Hence the paradox.

The word "Jew"

I think it is pretty clear that the modern word "Jew" does not have one specific historical equivalent but the term Judean did come to define monotheistic beliefs and customs. Before the fourth century council of Nicaea, there was no official form of Christianity and the line between Jews and Christians is so blurred that I think Christianity was a schism in whatever those "Jewish" beliefs were at the time. This is not unlike the early schism of Jews which led to Samaritans establishing themselves elsewhere (in Palestine) where they still remain today. (Samaritans also reject the Talmud)

The Talmud was written post-Christianity in Baghdad by Pharisee scribes claiming to be a Rabbinical interpretation of the so-called 'oral Torah' which Moses was 'given' separately by god. Since the Pharisees are the enemy of the New Testament, the corrupted (by man) priestly class misinterpreting the scripture, it's pretty obvious that the Talmud and thus Judaism the religion is exactly what the gospels are in opposition of. Hence the possible schism.

It is also possible that early Christianity and Hellenistic 'Judaism' were the same thing as well as Gnosticism (as is often claimed). The Nicaea council set out to basically create a universal religion (Catholic means universal) combining Judaic beliefs (making Jesus the messiah), Hellenistic philosophy, gnosticism, early Christianity, and the semi-official 'religions' of then-Roman empire Mithraism (from Persian Zoroastrianism) and Sol Invictus (dying god).

It wasn't universal for everybody, however. Arabian polytheism was still rooted in something Judaic regarding Abraham and the old testament. This was 'reformed' and combined with Arab nationalism and history by the reformer and his successors and became Islam. The Pharisees, again, found refuge in Baghdad where their traditions were recorded in the Talmud and became Rabbinic Judaism. From this point on, history refers to these as the Abrahamic religions. There is more to it than just that, but at least history is easier to keep track of from this point on. Islam and orthodox Judaism share much more in common with each other than with Christianity.

As for Jewish history, it is still shrouded in mystery. Not only are classical historians not able to agree on their origin, there are multiple explanations given for their origin. Considering the influence on currently (almost) half of the world's religious devotees, the fact that the origin of Judaic beliefs are unknown and mythological is an anomaly.

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Old 10-01-2013, 02:22 AM   #3
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This looks like an excellent thread.

I've only read your first post so far and I'm not going to go into detail as I'm off to bed soon.

One thing I will say though is in your first post you take the bible too literally.

Pesharim is writing on two levels. The first level is meant for people to take literally, the second for people with higher knowledge who can understand the hidden meaning.

The bible is written in code, so if you take it literally then you certainly won't find any ancient records of the Jews.

Anyway, I'm very much looking forward to digesting all this information tomorrow and will hopefully contribute.
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Old 10-01-2013, 03:43 AM   #4
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Default The Turkish Connection

In all honesty, I never paid much attention to the Turks in history. Until about a year or so ago all I really knew about Turks is that they lived in Turkey, slaughtered Armenians in WWI, and conquered the Byzantine Romans. The history of the Turks and even their mythology is very much rooted in the history of the world though. It's a very deep history and a very important (in my opinion) history which few people even know exists.

The pre-Islamic history of Turks, not unlike the Jews, is also shrouded in mystery and mythology. What I find more interesting is that the people who call themselves the Jewish people in modern times seem to be very much connected with the Turks going back to even ancient times.


Quote:
The Grey Wolf Legend

The legend tells of a young boy who survived a battle. A she-wolf finds the injured child and nurses him back to health. He subsequently impregnates the wolf which then gives birth to ten half-wolf, half-human boys. One of these, Ashina, becomes their leader and instaures the Ashina clan which ruled the Göktürks and other Turkic nomadic empires. The wolf, pregnant with the boy's offspring, escaped her enemies by crossing the Western Sea to a cave near to the Qocho mountains, one of the cities of the Tocharians. The first Turks subsequently migrated to the Altai regions, where they are known as expert in ironworkers, as the Scythians are also known to have been
I think the Qocho mountains are the Tian Shan Mountains near the Taklamakan Desert. Most version of the Asena legend that I've come across are identical to this. At least in English, I've been unable to find what Western Sea is is referring to in this context but I doubt it's the Mediterranean. More close to 'home' so-to-speak, is it the Caspian Sea?



The Caspian Sea once extended to the Aral Sea. In fact, the Aral was larger even 50 years ago. In the 60s, irrigation channels created by Soviets have caused the water level to diminish. Lake Balkhash a little to the East is not acknowledged to have ever connected to the Caspian Sea, but it is also acknowledged to have once been much larger even in relatively recent history. There are even theories that the majority of Kazakhstan was once covered by a giant body of water.

Nearby is the deep lake Issyk Kul which myths have long held that a flooded kingdom once stood where the lake now is. Ruins of an advanced civilization have been discovered in the shallows. The myth, therefore, is most likely based on some sort of history. But history from this part of the world is mixed with myth and shrouded in secrecy. The reign of the Tsars and the Soviets probably didn't help.

The Taklamakan Desert also has several myths explaining it. The name itself means either "go in and never come out" or "the place of ruins". I won't go into detail regarding the myth, but I think that this part of the world has very interesting geology and in relatively recent history saw a massive change which involved flooding, the absence of waters, desertification, and even freezing to the North.

The Caspian Sea is also still called the Khazar Sea in Turkish and other Altaic language. The Khazars themselves have been linked to the origin of the Jews, at least their Eastern European brethren. I'll get to this in a bit. The Caspian Sea borders the Caucasus which is apparently the origin of white peoples according to some theories. According to myth, it is also where Prometheus was bound by Zeus while an Eagle was sent every day to feed on his liver which grew back during the night. This myth is similar to Norse mythology's Loki being bound and a serpent dripping venom on him which his wife catches in a bowl/cup. When the bowl/cup was full and she went to pour it out, the venom dripped on Loki causing earthquakes. These myths are a parallel and Norse mythology is related to the Turkic myths as well as even Native American myths. There is probably a reason for that, but I won't get into it now.

The Red Jews


In the middle ages, there was a German folk tale about the Red Jews. It is said that the Red Jews would be unleashed at armageddon and that these Red Jews were of the lost 10 tribes of Israel. An interesting story that is very relevant to Turkish mythology which is even more interesting because the "Red Jews" were once identified with the Ottoman Turks.


Quote:
According to the Turkish mythology, Ergenekon is the name of the legendary valley, which according to Turkic mythology was a place of refuge in which the Turks were trapped for four centuries until a blacksmith melted some rocks and opened a gate so that a gray wolf called Börteçine could lead them out
A variation of this myth occurs among other Altaic peoples and also the modern Mongols. Notice the similarity with the Asena myth. Notice also the similarity with the foundation of Rome myth regarding the wolf:


It is claimed that Alexander the Great (Dhul-Qarnayn "Two Horned" in the Koran) built gates to keep out either barbarians or "Gog and Magog" (biblical reference), trapping them within the Caucasus Mountains. It has also been said that the trapped people of Gog and Magog were the lost tribes of Israel (relevant to the Red Jews myth)


Notice how this is kind of similar to the myth of the Turkic ancestors actually being trapped until a blacksmith melted the gates. Turkic ancestors were iron workers and blacksmiths of central Asia as well as nomadic steppe peoples. They were also horsemen as were the Aryans and Scythians. The mention of a Tocharian city is interesting because the Tocharian mummies found near the Taklamakan Desert are Caucasoid. DNA tests show Asian admixture in Y-DNA and mtDNA, however. The Uyghur Turkic peoples who live there today are distinct from other central Asian peoples and genetically they do have European DNA admixture. Interesting.

The trapped-in-Caucasus story is also somewhat similar to the Prometheus myth (who is released by not a wolf, but Hercules). There are other similar myths, but that's enough for now. Now on to what we think we know about history.

There were actual gates located near Derbent:


Which exist today in poor condition, but back in the day they would have blocked passage from the Caucasus mountains since there is only one narrow path though the mountains. The gates were most likely created by Persian emperor Khosrau 900 years after the time of Alexander. They were probably built to keep out the Gokturks who were also known as Huns at this time. In fact, a (short-lived) peace treaty between Persia and (Byzantine) Rome stated that the Persians would defend Rome (Constantinople) from the Huns. These "Huns" had already attacked Europe in the centuries prior. There were also related invasions in modern Hungary from people who were either Gokturks, Huns, or Khazars. It's long been conjectured that the Hun in Hungarian refers to Huns, that Magyar refers to Magog (even in Hungarian myths) as well as Mongols later, and that Gog refers to Gorgans and Georgia.

The wolf myth is associated with the Gokturks and their ruling Ashina dynasty. Is this where Ashkenazi comes from? Some say it comes from Scythian. Either way, same geographical area. The Gokturks may have been barbaric nomads and practiced crainial deformation, but it is also thought they became a merchant class and established/controlled the Silk Road:


The Gokturks were also the ancestors of Khazars (I'll elaborate on the Khazars later on)

The Silk Road Jews



Quote:
These merchants speak Arabic, Persian, Roman, the Frank, Spanish, and Slav languages. They journey from West to East, from East to West, partly on land, partly by sea. They transport from the West eunuchs, female slaves, boys, brocade, castor, marten and other furs, and swords. They take ship from Firanja (France), on the Western Sea, and make for Farama (Pelusium). There they load their goods on camel-back and go by land to al-Kolzum (Suez), a distance of twenty-five farsakhs (parasangs). They embark in the East Sea and sail from al-Kolzum to al-Jar (port of Medina) and al-Jeddah, then they go to Sind, India, and China. On their return from China they carry back musk, aloes, camphor, cinnamon, and other products of the Eastern countries to al-Kolzum and bring them back to Farama, where they again embark on the Western Sea. Some make sail for Constantinople to sell their goods to the Romans; others go to the palace of the King of the Franks to place their goods. Sometimes these Jew merchants, when embarking from the land of the Franks, on the Western Sea, make for Antioch (at the head of the Orontes River); thence by land to al-Jabia (al-Hanaya on the bank of the Euphrates), where they arrive after three days’ march. There they embark on the Euphrates and reach Baghdad, whence they sail down the Tigris, to al-Obolla. From al-Obolla they sail for Oman, Sindh, Hind, and China ...

These different journeys can also be made by land. The merchants that start from Spain or France go to Sus al-Aksa (in Morocco) and then to Tangier, whence they walk to Kairouan and the capital of Egypt. Thence they go to ar-Ramla, visit Damascus, al-Kufa, Baghdad, and al-Basra, cross Ahwaz, Fars, Kirman, Sind, Hind, and arrive in China.

Sometimes, also, they take the route behind Rome and, passing through the country of the Slavs, arrive at Khamlidj, the capital of the Khazars. They embark on the Jorjan Sea, arrive at Balkh, betake themselves from there across the Oxus, and continue their journey toward Yurt, Toghuzghuz, and from there to China.
To be continued...

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Old 10-01-2013, 03:57 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by omelette View Post
This looks like an excellent thread.

I've only read your first post so far and I'm not going to go into detail as I'm off to bed soon.

One thing I will say though is in your first post you take the bible too literally.

Pesharim is writing on two levels. The first level is meant for people to take literally, the second for people with higher knowledge who can understand the hidden meaning.

The bible is written in code, so if you take it literally then you certainly won't find any ancient records of the Jews.

Anyway, I'm very much looking forward to digesting all this information tomorrow and will hopefully contribute.
Looking forward to any and all contributions

The only reason I mention the bible history literally is because most bible believers take it literally. A lot of Jewish people even believe that their ancient ancestors were slaves in Egypt and I know that some Christians also take it to be history. I wrote it out for reference only. I've spent (way too much) time researching this very subject for the past couple of years or so and wanted to document everything in a thread here. Historical and mythological. I've read Philo's works and interpretation which I think I have made some sense out of. I'll add that later on

Apparently some people in this world have retained these ancient traditions and do not take them literally:

Quote:
The "Ontohsai" festival, held since ancient days, is judged to be the most important festival of "Suwa-Taisha."

At the back of the shrine "Suwa-Taisha," there is a mountain called Mt. Moriya ("Moriya-san" in Japanese). The people from the Suwa area call the god of Mt. Moriya "Moriya no kami," which means, the "god of Moriya." This shrine is built to worship the "god of Moriya."
At the festival, a boy is tied up by a rope to a wooden pillar, and placed on a bamboo carpet. A Shinto priest comes to him preparing a knife, and he cuts a part of the top of the wooden pillar, but then a messenger (another priest) comes there, and the boy is released. This is reminiscent of the Biblical story in which Isaac was released after an angel came to Abraham.
http://www5.ocn.ne.jp/~magi9/isracame.htm

Not a reliable source, but it's all I could find within short time. I'll cover the Japanese connection later (it relates to Odin of Norse mythology)

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Old 10-01-2013, 04:52 AM   #6
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Sometimes, also, they take the route behind Rome and, passing through the country of the Slavs, arrive at Khamlidj, the capital of the Khazars. They embark on the Jorjan Sea, arrive at Balkh, betake themselves from there across the Oxus, and continue their journey toward Yurt, Toghuzghuz, and from there to China.
Jorjan Sea? Like Gorgon or Jordan?

I am thinking that there has been an extreme geographical error distorting history and confusing all kinds of people

For example, Samaritans OR Sarmatians?




Galilee or Galatia?




Scythopolis?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beit_She'an

Or the Scythians living next to the Sarmatians?

Caesarea?


Or KHAZARIA? Notice the Ghuzz. Phonetically similar to Jew and in Altaic refers to the various hordes or Juz. There honestly could be a mixup here. The same is quite possible for the Anglo/Saxon/Frisian migration. They were accompanied by Jutes aka Judes. Not much unlike Juten or Juden. I will also elaborate on that later along with other people such as Kurds whose ancestors were Medes and Magi that went by the name of Guti. I have a feeling they are all more related than mere phonetic coincidence.



Easy floating in the salty "asphalt" Dead Sea next to Jordan:



Or similarly floating around the salty "asphalt" portions of the Jorjan Sea aka Black Sea?



I'll elaborate further on the Khazars later on as promised. But I think there is plenty of available evidence to doubt historical accounts of the so-called "Holy Land" being in Palestine when similar names and geographic regions (including lakes/seas) also refer to the Caucasus. Which might actually be a sacred land for some of us if it is truly the origin of Caucasian peoples.

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Old 10-01-2013, 03:44 PM   #7
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Genesis 5:22

Enoch walked with God for 300 years and begat Methuselah

"Enoch" -- Alligator Effigy Mound at Granville, Ohio





"God" -- Arkaim at Chelyabinsk Oblast, Russia



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Old 10-01-2013, 03:45 PM   #8
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But I think there is plenty of available evidence to doubt historical accounts of the so-called "Holy Land" being in Palestine when similar names and geographic regions (including lakes/seas) also refer to the Caucasus. Which might actually be a sacred land for some of us if it is truly the origin of Caucasian peoples.
North America-- origins of the Caucasian peoples is North America
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Old 10-01-2013, 09:32 PM   #9
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North America-- origins of the Caucasian peoples is North America
I don't think so. I think they most certainly had a presence in pre-Columbian North America (and I'm not just referring to Nordic colonists or disputed Phoenician traces). But I don't think they originated there.

Several Amerindian tribes in both North and South America (but mostly toward the South) carry a historical recollection of previous migrations and previous homelands. One re-occurring element is ancestors living in caves. Tribes without the cave story mention enemy tribes emerging from the ground. These elements also occur in Central Asian myths.

Now there are massive cave systems in the Americas. One of them is Mammoth Cave in Kentucky. Mummies with red hair and Caucasoid features were found within the cave (which have since been destroyed...)

http://www.burlingtonnews.net/mammothcavemummies.html

This is a fringe site, but it has B&W photos and descriptions of the mummies.

Haplogroup X, an mtDNA haplogroup, has been found in mostly Algonquin peoples in Northeast America. R1b, a Y-DNA haplogroup, has been found among the same peoples. This is often linked to the Soultrean theory:


A European culture with archeological evidence of a presence in pre-Clovis America. It's also possible that the R1b came from mixing with Europeans in recent times. The X is supposedly more closely related to an Altaic variety more so than the Euro-Mediterranean variety. Thus it doesn't conflict with their precious Aleutian land bridge theory. Every time they need a migration of people and megafauna, the land bridge is suddenly available. Even for mammoths. There is no doubt truth to the the theory, but I doubt the mammoths were using the specific route.

Orthodox historians acknowledge the Norse colonists, but they try to keep them far away from anything south of Newfoundland despite evidence such as coins and other inconvenient artifacts. They also need the Norse to either abandon their colonies or die off instead of being bred out through, for example, Algonquin peoples. Algonquin peoples have a migration in their history which is claimed to be more recent. I'm not sure that it is. It's also often claimed that they've incorporated Old Norse words into their language. There are definitely parallels in their myths with Norse myths which I'll cover later continuing with Jewish history.

Copper was a hot commodity in bronze age Europe. Minoans seemed to have control of the copper market until around 1500 BC. The mass migration of people including the later Sea People invasion was also associated with copper weapons and shields. Around northern Michigan are copper mines which were mined in ancient times. Minoan-style axes and tools have been found but orthodox historians refuse to take that as evidence linking this to Minoans despite the fact that all that copper is nowhere to be found in the Americas.

Few historians ever speculate where Columbus got his maps. They also ignore the fact that his initial 'discoveries' were dismissed by the Portuguese because the 'Portuguese' (relevant to Jewish history - Portuguese was also what Iberian Jews expelled during the Inquisition of 1492 - the same year attributed to Columbus by the way - were called by Turks) already had established trade routes in the Americas. The Sephardic Jews of Iberia were probably the source of the maps and some say that either Sephardic Jews or Iberian Muslims left their legacy on the Cherokee people. There is some evidence for this among the Ottoman Turks which I'll dig up later.

Basically what I'm saying is that Europeans had been in the Americas long before Columbus on multiple occasions. Phoenicians (aka 'Egyptians' trading in the land of Punt), Vikings, 'Portuguese' Jews/Muslim merchants, etc. And there is evidence from very ancient times as part of the Soultrean theory. So Caucasian people would have definitely been in North America, but did they originate in North America?

Quote:
Caucasian variety - I have taken the name of this variety from Mount Caucasus, both because its neighborhood, and especially its southern slope, produces the most beautiful race of men, I mean the Georgian; and because all physiological reasons converge to this, that in that region, if anywhere, it seems we ought with the greatest probability to place the autochthones (birth place) of mankind
This is an English quote from Johann Friedrich Blumenbach, the man who coined the term Caucasian as in racial terms. As I mentioned and as I plan to further contribute, the Caucasus and especially the area surrounding the Black Sea appear to be some sort of "holy land" so-to-speak. It is an area without a lot of history. But more important, in my opinion, is the entire Eurasian steppe:



For it seems that is where the evidence points to regarding the origins of Caucasians. This also seems to be a key region to understanding where Turks and Jews came from. They were a later development though as I'll try and explain in this thread.

As for Arkaim, Arkaim was a wooden city that shows evidence of having been burnt to the ground. Other than some broken shards of pottery (with swastikas on them), it appears to have been deliberately abandoned and burned. Arkaim is also along that Eurasia steppe.


It has giant Teutonic cross in the middle and its overall layout and shape is similar to a lauburu (Basque swastika):



This and the pottery shards with swastikas found on the site 'swastika city'

Quote:
The Budini for their part, being a large and numerous nation, are all mightily blue-eyed and ruddy. And a city among them has been built, a wooden city, and the name of the city is Gelonus. Of its wall then in size each side is of thirty stades and high and all wooden. And their homes are wooden and their shrines. For indeed there is in the very place Greek gods’ shrines adorned in the Greek way with statues, altars and wooden shrines and for triennial Dionysus festivals in honour of Dionysus... Above the Sauromatae (Sarmatians), possessing the second region, dwell the Budini, whose territory is thickly wooded with trees of every kind. The Budini are a large and powerful nation: they have all deep blue eyes, and bright red hair. The Budini, however, do not speak the same language as the Geloni, nor is their mode of life the same. They are the aboriginal people of the country, and are nomads; unlike any of the neighbouring races, they eat 'phtheir'. Their country is thickly planted with trees of all manner of kinds. In the very woodiest part is a broad deep lake, surrounded by marshy ground with reeds growing on it. Here otters are caught, and beavers, with another sort of animal which has a square face. With the skins of this last the natives border their capotes: and they also get from them a remedy, which is of virtue in diseases of the womb...Beyond the Budini, as one goes northward, first there is a desert, seven days' journey across...
According to Herodotus. During Darius' assault on Scythia, the Budini burnt their own wooden settlement to the ground. Now Herodotus also says the Budini are a settlement of Greeks among nomadic Scythians, that they do not share the nomadic lifestyle, and that they speak a mixture of Scythian and Greek. Given the description and the context, Herodotus is referring to an area north of the Black Sea. But there is no desert to the north of this, at least not in modern times, nor is there a desert north of Arkaim. I don't think he's referring to Arkaim. Arkaim is one of several similar ancient settlements in Russia. Another one is Sintashta which is close by to Arkaim. Remains of a chariot have been found there. The Indo-Aryans introduced the chariot to the West later on. Sintashta and Arkaim are very ancient settlements, over 5,000 years old and long before the time of Herodotus or Darius.

North America was 'nuked' around 15,000 years ago:

http://www.viewzone.com/paleonuke.html

Probably a meteor or comet impact. This probably would have killed a large portion of ancient Americans along with archeological evidence of their existence. This is also near the end of the ice age and around the same time period that Siberian mammoths were wiped out.

I think that similar drastic changes are what caused various waves of migrations, something I mentioned earlier regarding the steppe Turks. Whatever killed off the mammoths probably pushed the Caucasian ancestors into the Eurasian steppe. If they lived in North America, they most likely would have lived in the Northern extremities. The Canadian shield, Nunavut, and Greenland. And IMO if they lived there, they didn't originate there. They migrated there. In fact, that's how I think the Altaic haplogroup X found it's way into Algonquin peoples. Not the Aleutian land bridge.

Myths about midnight suns or a goddess going to the underworld for 6 months of the year points to something in the Arctic circle. In the modern era, Scandinavia is close but I don't think it was limited to Scandinavia. The Barents Sea is a largely submerged continental mass whose ocean floor map matches a section of Mercator's polar map:



And those Siberian mammoths whose bodies are not cold adapted didn't wind up flash-frozen with tropical plants undigested in their bellies because of a gradual end to an ice age pushing them into new territories where they were hunted by man. Although their perfectly frozen and preserved carcasses were good enough for Siberians to thaw and eat despite being thousands of years old....

Last edited by believenothing; 10-01-2013 at 09:33 PM.
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Old 11-01-2013, 12:06 AM   #10
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Default The Hebrew Language

Orthodox history in general is a chronology of narratives which are not necessarily truths. Certainly not the whole truth anyways. So far I have tried to demonstrate that the generally accepted origins of Jewish people and Jewish traditions are an almost complete fabrication, that ancient historians couldn't even agree where they came from and even then admit to Jewish revisionism of mythical Greek history.

Prior to the 6th century BC, there were simply no Jews. Not in Palestine, not in Egypt. Christians, mostly Protestant denominations, have made up all sorts of excuses to deny this. For some reason they seem to be under the impression that ancient Jews were the most important people in the history of the world.

The history of the Hebrew language is a lot like the history of the Jews. It is universally misunderstood for a variety of reasons, especially by 16th-19th century Christians (again, mostly Protestant denominations post Protestant-reformation). Most people would argue the following statement, but I'm going to show you that it is mostly a true statement:

Hebrew is a fake language, a modern invention

Fact: Hebrew was not a spoken language prior to the 19th century Zionist movement

"Hebrew" as a spoken language had been dead for nearly 2,000 years until it was "revived" in the 19th century by Zionist colonists. This is no secret but apparently some people are unaware of it, assuming that Jews traditionally speak Hebrew. Here is Wikipedia's article on the Zionist 'revival' of Hebrew:


Yet one of the most important "contributors" to its 'revival' is missing from the article: Arthur Ruppin


Arthur Ruppin was a German land entrepreneur who didn't even speak Hebrew.

Quote:
It must be remembered, then, that the new social field in Zionist Palestine was built, not by Jews but by Hebrews: The workers’ organization was called the General Federation of Hebrew Workers and, similarly, the first teachers were organized under the title of the Hebrew, Teachers’ Association. The first units that joined the British army in the First World War were called The Hebrew Regiment, the banners in the Zionist demonstrations called for “Hebrew work” and a “Hebrew state,” the slogan of the Hebrew language revivalists was “Ivri daber Ivrit” (Hebrews, speak Hebrew), the university in Jerusalem was the first “Hebrew University,” Tel Aviv was “the first Hebrew city” and so on.

The dichotomy of Jew and Hebrew was at the core of identity formation in the Zionist community in Palestine, and, to a large extent, shaped pre-Israel cultural identity, an identity that evolved in opposition to the galut Jew as he was pictured in European culture by all, from anti-Semites to Zionists
From Etan Bloom's Arthur Ruppin and the Production of the Modern Hebrew Culture:

http://www.tau.ac.il/tarbut/tezot/bl...thurRuppin.pdf

From Ruppin's wikipedia article:

Quote:
Ruppin was among the founders of the Brit Shalom peace movement, which supported a binational state, but he left Brit Shalom after the 1929 Hebron massacre. Thereafter he was convinced that only an independent Jewish state would be possible, and he believed that the way to bring about that state was through continued settlement.
Ruppin died before Israel became an independent state, but while he was alive a proposal for partition was rejected because the Zionists desired more land. They actually followed Ruppin's settlement blueprint and settled Jewish colonists over a wider area, then using this wider area to justify a larger state which is exactly what the UN partition was based on. Israel's settlement policy continued even after they became an independent state and it still continues to this day in Palestinian territories illegally occupied by Israel.

In some ways Ruppin was more influential to Zionism than Theodor Herzl. The Hebrew language might be the only thing "Hebrew" to survive the earlier proposed Hebrew culture identity, but that culture is essentially the same thing as Zionist cultural identity. The difference being that Ruppin's Hebrew culture intended to create a new identity in Palestine to differentiate itself from diaspora Jews. It's only been very recently that diaspora Jews have begun trying to 'divorce' themselves from Israel and Zionism. Most people still cannot comprehend the modern state of Israel being separate from Jewish people.

The Hebrew language was enforced by Zionist leaders even before Israel was a state and Hebrew an official language. It's interesting that only Hebrew and Arabic are official languages of Israel considering that the majority of Jewish immigrants spoke Yiddish. Yiddish itself basically being a dialect of German written in "Hebrew" (actually Aramaic) characters. Speaking Yiddish was suppressed in favor of Hebrew/Zionist identity. This is the real reason why Hebrew was revived.

Nobody knows how 'ancient' Hebrew was pronounced. Ancient Hebrew did not even have vowels. Modern Hebrew's pronunciation was influenced by the immigrants who revived it. In other words it's influenced by Yiddish including punctuation and grammar. And not just Yiddish, but other languages spoken by the immigrants contributed to its development as well as the native Arabic speakers. There are even dialects of modern Hebrew among the different groups of Jews.

Prior to the 19th century, the majority of Jews spoke Yiddish (German), Arabic (in the case of the Arab Jews), or Ladino (Spanish). Hebrew words were used in religious rituals and Hebrew had also been used by Jewish religious scribes. But even then there was a variation in the different written forms.

Hebrew is a Semitic language similar to Arabic. Arabic uses a different script. Hebrew script is a stylized version of Aramaic script. Compare:

Nabataean Aramaic:



Syraic:



Hebrew:



Syriac is a dialect of Aramaic. Hebrew should also be thought of as dialect of Aramaic. Aramaic is the language which Babylonian Rabbis spoke and wrote the Talmud in. It is also the "Hebrew" language which Samaritans spoke in.


Phoenician is the 'parent' language to all of them:


There are various 'dialects' of written Hebrew which range from archaic to modern. Biblical and Jewish written works are often labeled "Hebrew" and/or "Aramaic". What some call Hebrew, others call Aramaic. If it is really archaic they might even call it Phoenician. Hebrew as a unique language in ancient times was probably less unique from Phoenician and later Aramaic than Ladino is from Spanish or Yiddish is from German. Uniqueness probably also had a lot to do with literacy. The more remote and the less literate, the different the language. Was Hebrew a unique language the same way Portuguese is from Spanish and Spanish is from Latin? I don't think so. But then again nobody speaks it (excluding modern Hebrew which again is a recent creation).



This is one of Yale's logos. This has nothing to do with Jews at Yale or Yale being Jewish or anything of that sort. It has everything to do with some idiotic romance that Protestant denominations of Christians had with Hebrew as a classical language. For some bizarre and biblically-motivated reason, these Christians were under the impression that Hebrew was some sort of a progenitor language.

Now the Phoenician alphabet is the mother of many alphabets including Latin. Hebrew is not even special, as I've already written above. Prior to the translation of Egyptian hieroglyphs in the 19th century (thanks to the Rosetta Stone), it was even thought by some of these Christians, especially among Freemasons, that the glyphs might be Hebrew. Others considered (more correctly) that the language was related to Coptic. After they were translated, Freemasons sort of gave up on the Hebrew obsession. Mormonism, which is thought to be a partial ripoff of Masonic teachings, claims that Hebrew speaking Jewish Egyptians (or something like that) came to America. Mormons point to writing that resembles Hebrew on artifacts that may or may not be hoaxes as proof of this claim. If real, a Phoenician merchant origin is far more plausible and obvious.

The Hebrew romance among Protestant sects and denominations is also based on thinking Jesus and the apostles spoke Hebrew. Considering that the oldest New Testament manuscripts are written in Greek (dating to a time period when Latin was more common even) and also considering that the Old Testament scripture quotes are also written in Greek (along with other things like Greece/Asia Minor being where most of the New Testament takes place), it seems pretty irrational to believe Jesus or the apostles would have spoken Hebrew or even Aramaic. Philo of Alexandria, a Hellenistic Jew who lived in the first century AD, did not speak or write Hebrew or Aramaic.

It's equally foolish, in my opinion, to look toward Hebrew as the "original" when it comes to tracing word etymologies. Same with assuming that the Greek words were translated from Hebrew words. Maybe it was the other way around? Protestant bibles used the Masoretic text as a basis of translation. The Masoretic texts are today only about 1,000 years old versus the 1,700-year-old Greek Septuagints. It's assumed that the Masoretic text is more accurate to the originals by these Protestants. Now why the hell would you use a 700 year newer source written by Pharisees, the enemy of the New Testament's Christ? That's 700 years of hate the Jewish scribes had for Christ and Christians (as can be seen in the Talmud).

The Protestant romance with the Hebrew language is ridiculous. The Israelis boasting of reviving Hebrew being some sort of admirable and major accomplishment is also ridiculous. What's the point of reviving archaic and dead languages to use as spoken languages? In the case of Israel it was Jewish Nationalism and Zionism. Jews traditionally spoke the language of the people they lived with. This would have been the case even in ancient times when they supposedly spoke "Hebrew". The origins of the Jews can only be traced back to the 6th century BC. If they came from somewhere else before this whether it was Egypt, Persia, or India, then they would have spoken Egyptian, Persian, or Sanskrit before they ever spoke Phoenician, Aramaic, or 'Hebrew'

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Old 11-01-2013, 05:32 AM   #11
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Default The Khazars



Khazaria was allegedly a Turkic kingdom between the Black and Caspian Seas. The "Khazar theory" claims that Ashkenazi Jews are really the descendants of these Khazar Turks who converted to Judaism in the middle ages, as opposed from being the descendants of Middle Eastern 'biblical' Jews. The irony, if true, would be they have no right to claim Palestine as any sort of a homeland.

Kuzari


Kuzari is a 12th century book written by Yehuda Halevi, a Spanish rabbi. It is a mythological account about a pagan Khazar king meeting with a rabbi and converting to Judaism. Although it is said to be based on the actual conversion event, I have found no real satisfactory evidence that the conversion was anything other than a fictional story created by Yehuda Halevi. In fact, the history of the Khazars and Khazaria is just as lacking as the history of the Jews. Very little is even know about the Khazars.

The Khazar/Ashkenazi connection began making the rounds in the 19th century. It was popularized by Henry Ford and later on by anti-Zionist Jews like Benjamin Freedman. It was usually dismissed as "anti-semitic" until it gained wider exposure in the 70s when Arthur Koestler, a Jew, wrote a book about ti called The Thirteenth Tribe.



In more recent times another Jew, an Israeli professor named by Shlomo Sand, wrote a book called The Invention of the Jewish People which de-constructed Jewish history and myth even further covering not only the theory about Khazars but also making mention of Sephardic Jews tracing their ancestry to Berber coverts:



Sand's book claims that there never was a Jewish people or Jewish nation (thus no Jewish ethnicity). He claims that most diaspora Jews trace their ancestors to converts, which is also similar to my own conclusions. Jews did not become an ethnic group of people or nation until after the 17th century. Prior to the 17th century, the "Star of David" was not a hexagram and the hexagram was not a symbol for Jewish people. Jewish nationalism arose in the 17th century and European Jews adopted the hexagram as a symbol of Jewish nationalism. Jewish nationalism would eventually lead to Zionism in the 19th century and under Zionism the hexagram as the "Star of David" came to symbolize all Jewish people collectively.

The majority of Jews are Ashkenazi Jews, the German and Eastern European Jews who the Khazar theory claims to be descendants of a Caucasus-based Turkish kingdom. The other large group of Jews (but a minority in comparison to the Ashkenazi) are the Sephardic (Spanish) Jews. Some Sephardic Jews believe they are the "real" Jews and the Ashkenazi Jews are not, and some Ashkenazi Jews say the same about Sephardic Jews.

Even though the evidence does appear to favor religious conversion versus blood relations, there is clearly an ethnic component existing within Jewish groups. As mentioned earlier, Sephardic and Ashkenazi Jews do share genetic similarities. Some related genetic markers are found in Jews of different races. This could just mean one of their ancestors was a Jew from a different race who had an interracial sexual union.

Even though I would like to agree with people like Gilad Atzmon who claim that Jewish is merely religious and cultural traditions and even though I do agree that many gentile converts are the reason for so many diaspora Jews, I still cannot ignore the fact that Jewish traditions both religious and secular strongly emphasize bloodlines and blood relationships. Ancient rabbis did not like Herod on account of his 'tainted' gentile blood for example. Based on modern Jewish nationalism, the Jews have become an ethnicity if they were not one before. But were they an ethnicity before? The priestly classes such as the Jewish Kohanim are most definitely related by blood, confirmed with DNA testing. If you take away the Egyptian and Babylonian influence to their traditions, you are still left with some bizarre monotheistic traditions and culture alien among the cultures Jews live in and mostly refuse to assimilate with. Where did these come from?

http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/an-in...10?block=true#

http://www.kulturekritic.com/2012/12...provera-shots/

Did you know that Israel sterilizes female Ethiopian Jews?



Quote:
It’s hard to believe, but in Israel, in 2012, Ethiopian women are forced to receive injections of the Depo-Provera contraceptive. This injection is not a commonly prescribed means of contraception. It is considered a last resort and is usually given to women who are institutionalized or developmentally disabled. Yet according to an investigation recently aired on the “Vacuum” documentary series hosted by Gal Gabay and shown on Israeli Educational Television, it is also given to many new immigrants from Ethiopia.

Depo-Provera has a shameful history. According to a report by the Isha L’Isha organization, the injections were given to women between 1967 and 1978 as part of an experiment that took place in the U.S. state of Georgia on 13,000 impoverished women, half of whom were black.
Back to the Khazars....

Odin

Quote:
It is said that the earth's circle which the human race inhabits
is torn across into many bights, so that great seas run into the
land from the out-ocean. Thus it is known that a great sea goes
in at Narvesund (Strait of Gibraltar -BN), and up to the land of Jerusalem. From the
same sea
a long sea-bight stretches towards the north-east, and
is called the Black Sea
, and divides the three parts of the
earth; of which the eastern part is called Asia, and the western
is called by some Europa, by some Enea.
From Snorri Sturluson's Heimskringla about the Norwegian kings. Up to the land of Jerusalem? And from the same sea stretches the Black Sea toward the Northeast? Is Snorri's Jerusalem Byzantium/Constantinople?

Quote:
OF THE PEOPLE OF ASIA.

The country east of the Tanaquisl in Asia was called Asaland, or
Asaheim, and the chief city in that land was called Asgaard. In
that city was a chief called Odin
, and it was a great place for
sacrifice. It was the custom there that twelve temple priests
should both direct the sacrifices, and also judge the people.
They were called Diar, or Drotner, and all the people served and
obeyed them. Odin was a great and very far-travelled warrior,
who conquered many kingdoms
, and so successful was he that in
every battle the victory was on his side. It was the belief of
his people that victory belonged to him in every battle. It was
his custom when he sent his men into battle, or on any
expedition, that he first laid his hand upon their heads, and
called down a blessing upon them; and then they believed their
undertaking would be successful. His people also were
accustomed, whenever they fell into danger by land or sea, to
call upon his name; and they thought that always they got comfort
and aid by it, for where he was they thought help was near.
Often he went away so far that he passed many seasons on his
journeys.
Snorri Sturluson is trying to give Odin, a mythological god, a mortal Earth-based actual history which may or may not be true.


Quote:
Uldin or Uldes (died 412) was one of the primary chieftains of the Huns located beyond the Danube during the reigns of the Eastern Roman (Byzantine) Emperors Arcadius (394–408) and Theodosius II (408–450). He did not, however have total control of the Hunnic people, but was a leader of the state's western wing.

He first became known to the Romans in December 400, when he decapitated Gainas, and sent the head to Arcadius as a gift. Five years later, Uldin headed a body of Huns, together with his allies the Scirii, in the service of the western Roman Magister Militum, Stilicho, against the invasion of Goths under Radagaisus.

Uldin's invasion of Moesia in 408 was repulsed, with thousands of his Germanic allies falling into Roman hands. Uldin was forced to retreat.
Uldin died in 412, whereafter the Huns split into three large groups.
It is claimed that Uldin, a Hunnish chief, was the historical Odin. Now from my own research there were several Odins and Sons of Odins stretching all the way across Asia to Japan, often associated with raven symbolism. There is even at least one Amerindian myth involving an "Odin" and his ravens. This could also have something to do with a Turkic origin.

Snorri Sturluson goes on to write about all of Odin's accomplishments and conquered kingdoms in the West that he put sons in charge of or impregnated the local royals running the kingdoms and putting the offspring in charge of their kingdoms. Hungary and Romania do record invasions of both Huns and later Khazars and there is at least one myth regarding a Romanian king (if I remember correctly) implicating the king was related to Atilla the Hun. And for what it's worth, Prince Charles claims Vlad Dracul is his ancestor...

One of the major kingdoms conquered by Odin is Vanaland of the mythological Vanir. Odin's Aesir live on the Eastern side of the Volga River. The Vanir live on the Western side. This is also the same territory attributed to Khazaria. Khazaria supposedly 'began' it's existence in the 7th century AD (which would have been a couple centuries after the migration period), became a major stop on the Silk Road, lasted a couple hundred years with mostly rosy relations with the Romans, and was eventually conquered by the Rus. Now the question I have about Khazaria is how long did it really last? The other question I have is regarding their "conversion". Did they convert or were they already "Jewish"?

Quote:
The Egyptians did, however, say that they thought the original Colchians were men from Sesostris' army. My own idea on the subject was based first on the fact that they have black skins and woolly hair (not that that amounts to much, as other nations have the same), and secondly, and more especially, on the fact that the Colchians, the Egyptians, and the Ethiopians are the only races which from ancient times have practised circumcision. The Phoenicians and the Syrians of Palestine themselves admit that they learned the practice from Egypt, and the Syrians who live near the rivers Thermodon and Parthenius, as well as their neighbours the Macronians, say that they learnt it only a short time ago from the Colchians.
Again from Herodotus. Both the Termodon and Parthenius Rivers are referring to the modern Terme and Bartın Rivers of Northern Turkey next to the Black Sea. Colchis was a kingdom along the Black Sea:



Marcronia would be in the Southwest corner of this map also along the Black Sea. When Herodotus is speaking of Syrians, he is not reffering to Assyrians. Although some historical references to Syria or Syrians does refer to Assyrians, this is more likely a mixup and a mistake. The etymology of Syria 'officially' comes from Assyria but this is more than likely modern academic laziness. Syria referred to Aramaic speaking people. Assyria referred to a geographic region which the Romans associated with the Western Persian empire. Syria also referred to the Levant between modern Turkey and Egypt. The etymology is disputed despite a lazy 'consensus' which just thinks it comes from Assyria. Tyre was called Sur by Phoenicians and Hurrians. Egyptians called this part of the Levant Hur and later Hrw (when conquered by Aramaic speaking peoples), the latter of which may have developed into Suri in Coptic for some strange reason. Whatever the case, these "Syrians" and Jews may have been the same people. And again, Syria could be an earlier name for a historical Israel. Isra = Syria + el with el being a Semitic title meaning lord. I came to this conclusion based on some interpretations of SR words referring to Canaanites being interpreted as Israel by historians even though Syria would make more sense (as mentioned earlier, they do this until the 8th century BC probably to appease the biblical account).

Herodotus' Syrians

Herodtus described Syrians living in central Asia Minor, which went by a Persian name - Cappadocians. The Greeks called them Syrians or Leucosyri (White Syrians). Cappadocia is mentioned in the New Testament as being home to a population of strongly religious (god fearing) Jews. Later historians described their capital being Caesarea Mazaca which in modern Turkey is called Kayseri

The various Caesareas are of course name after the title given to Roman Emperors. Nobody knows where the name Caesar came from (other than Gaius Julius Caesar) and it's speculated to have meant hairy. Also, nobody knows why Caesarean section is called Caesarean. Caesarea can be pronounced similar to Khazaria as Kaiser is of course an alternate pronunciation and title for the same word (as is Tsar or Czar). And again I can't help think back to the Romulus and Remus wolf origin myth for the city of Rome and its similarity to steppe and Turkish myths.

According to modern historians/Egyptologists and traditional chronology, no Pharaoh ever marched up into the Caucasus or set foot in mainland Europe, and certainly no Pharaoh ever conquered territory there. These ancient historians can also be wrong or their works could be vandalized or even hoaxes. Herodotus said black Africans ejaculated black semen, for example.

But there is something to this Sesostris story because Herodotus mentions that the Colchians themselves remembered they were Egyptian more than the Egyptians. He admits he heard the Egyptian side of the story second hand, but he doesn't doubt that the Colochians are Egyptian. Sesotris is mostly like referring to Seti I or Ramesses II. Or both. This Sesotris story also appears as part of Gothic history except the Egyptian Pharaoh is named Vesosis and the Goths fight him off led by a king named Tanausis. (Goths = Jutes aka Judes )


Later historians said Sesotris introduced the worship of Serapis and a caste system to Egypt. Caste systems were often and Indo-Aryan creation. Serapis was allegedly a fake god introduced by Ptolemy I long after Herodotus was dead:


A combination of a Hellenistic and Egyptian god to appease the mixed population. A god who later became mixed up with Jesus and who in many aspects is already similar to Jesus. Earlier I mentioned that Herodotus referred to Palestine as Palestine even though the name Palestine was supposedly 'invented' 500+ years later by Hadrian to de-Judaize Judea and piss of the Jews.

Something is very, very, very wrong here. Something in the Egyptian, Greek, and Roman accounts is seriously messed up, perhaps deliberately. And I suspect that this Serapis 'god' along with Jesus and Jews in general are involved in some sort of a conspiracy of history.

Either way I don't have much else to say about the Khazars for now other than I doubt the conversion story. I'll definitely come back to them again since I'm not done with them. I think they were already Jewish at the time and had been for centuries. The conversion story is probably a myth as is much of the Khazar history. They were a Turkic Khanate along the Silk Road, an offshoot of Gokturks and formerly part of a Gokturk Khanate. They were probably where the Huns came from during the migration period and probably also the Mongol horde later on. The Gokturks controlled the Silk Road, probably even created it. The Silk Road was later dominated by Jewish merchants called Radhanites. And they are related to Ashkenazi Jews at least partially. This has been proven with DNA testing even though the evidence is spun to dismiss it. Ashkenazi Jews are already related to modern Turks genetically and maybe I'll write about the special relationship between Jews, Israel, and Turkey a little later.


Greek myth of Aegyptus and his twin brother Danaus. The Greeks associated this myth with the Hyksos. It's also been associated with the Sea Peoples event. I think Tanausis = Danaus and Sesotris/Vesosis is a combination of Pharaohs from around that time period which would have included Ramesses II

Quote:
"I slew the Denyen in their isles"
From a papyrus attributed to Ramses III in reference to the Sea Peoples. "Their isles" most likely means the Aegean Isles. Which regardless of what modern historians believe is evidence enough for me that Egyptians could have set foot on mainland Europe.

What does this have to do with Khazaria and Jews? Everything. It has everything to do with Jewish origins. This is closer to the real "Jewish origins" than the official historical narratives or any biblical narratives claim even if it isn't conclusive. This historical Jews were not just a bunch of tribes living in Palestine. They lived from Yemen to beyond Georgia at various times and with some territorial exceptions. They also lived among and quite possibly were nomadic steppe Turks. They definitely settled all along the Silk Road as far as Japan. Some people trying to put this all together claim they branched off from the Aryans. I have doubts to this, but I don't doubt that they mixed with Aryans. Both genetically and with traditions.
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Old 15-01-2013, 12:10 AM   #12
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Why do researchers think it is such a mystery as to how various things are found in the Americas. Always they wonder how these people could have crossed great oceans.
I have to wonder how they can be so dense as to not consider the possibility that perhaps there were no oceans for them to cross. That the land was all together...Pangea.

Continental drift has been established for some time now. It is also acknowledged that the Atlantic ocean continues to get wider via that mid-Atlantic ridge.

Now then, since you mentioned the "nuking" of N.America, how about considering that perhaps great changes to the face of the Earth took place within hours?

All this is described in a book (which I have) Cataclysm!: Compelling Evidence of a Cosmic Catastrophe in 9500 B.C.
D. S. Allan
D. S. Allan (Author)
› Visit Amazon's D. S. Allan Page
(Author), J. B. Delair (Author)

This is the only reference currently available. There was up to a few days ago a very nice synopsis under the former title "When Earth Nearly Died", however that page is now unavailable and I get redirected to the sis web site.
This book give all the evidence to support its claims. They talk about those elongated lakes, the Carolina bays, masses of animals found in caves and just buried all together, as well as the persistent tales of all cultures around the world about a fallen sky, rocks and mud raining down, and a flood.

I'm enjoying your thread and look forward to reading more.
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Old 15-01-2013, 05:15 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohzone View Post
Why do researchers think it is such a mystery as to how various things are found in the Americas. Always they wonder how these people could have crossed great oceans.
I have to wonder how they can be so dense as to not consider the possibility that perhaps there were no oceans for them to cross. That the land was all together...Pangea.

Continental drift has been established for some time now. It is also acknowledged that the Atlantic ocean continues to get wider via that mid-Atlantic ridge.

Now then, since you mentioned the "nuking" of N.America, how about considering that perhaps great changes to the face of the Earth took place within hours?

All this is described in a book (which I have) Cataclysm!: Compelling Evidence of a Cosmic Catastrophe in 9500 B.C.
D. S. Allan
D. S. Allan (Author)
› Visit Amazon's D. S. Allan Page
(Author), J. B. Delair (Author)
Cataclysm!: Compelling Evidence of a Cosmic Catastrophe in 9500 B.C.: D. S. Allan, J. B. Delair: 9781879181427: Amazon.com: Books

This is the only reference currently available. There was up to a few days ago a very nice synopsis under the former title "When Earth Nearly Died", however that page is now unavailable and I get redirected to the sis web site.
This book give all the evidence to support its claims. They talk about those elongated lakes, the Carolina bays, masses of animals found in caves and just buried all together, as well as the persistent tales of all cultures around the world about a fallen sky, rocks and mud raining down, and a flood.

I'm enjoying your thread and look forward to reading more.
100% agreed. There is a reason why Tamil people believe that India, Madagascar, and Australia used to be a part of one continent. They are wrong in believing that this continent has sunk and they are wrong trying to stretch it across such a great distance. All of these continents fit together along with Antarctica. Once together, they would be shaped quite similarly to the Southern continent (Terra Australis), most notoriously on a map by Oronce Fine.

The mechanism claimed to produce continental drift by science is an absurd joke (convection cell) which does not take into account the Earth's rotation or having a lopsided continental mass only on one side of the planet. All the continents fit together on an oceanless sphere. Expansion, whether they choose to consider it or not, is the only explanation. Gradual expansion or sudden expansion? Would (slow) gradual expansion really explain how India "shot" up to Asia leaving tracks behind and "pushing" Malaysia/Indonesia on it's way up, even retaining nearly the exact same arc shape that it created from pushing them. That is, compare the Himalayan arc to the arc of those Indian ocean islands.

A sudden expansion event or events. Whether from a change in size or change in axial tilt, the formerly tropical regions (where the mammoths and humans lived) would have froze. These old maps, especially the above Mercator polar one (which has the wrong north pole West of what is actually Greenland, but curiously a 'magnetic polar rock' in the place of our current North Pole which was not known at the time the map was created).

If due to an impact, the energy released would supposedly wipe out all life on the planet. Perhaps. I personally think it a close tidal encounter with Venus or Mars or even one of the gas giants is a possibility. Either way, there are South Asians living on Madagascar proven genetically. The 'official' explanation is they went there on a boat. Okay... maybe they did. What if they were always there? Tamil people deny a lot of Hindu superstition yet believe they were connected to Madagascar and Australia. And whether anybody considers the Atlantis story or not, it was actually designed to explain things like this:

Quote:
To this city came Solon, and was received there with great honour; he asked the priests who were most skilful in such matters, about antiquity, and made the discovery that neither he nor any other Hellene knew anything worth mentioning about the times of old. On one occasion, wishing to draw them on to speak of antiquity, he began to tell about the most ancient things in our part of the world-about Phoroneus, who is called "the first man," and about Niobe; and after the Deluge, of the survival of Deucalion and Pyrrha; and he traced the genealogy of their descendants, and reckoning up the dates, tried to compute how many years ago the events of which he was speaking happened.

Thereupon one of the priests, who was of a very great age, said: O Solon, Solon, you Hellenes are never anything but children, and there is not an old man among you. Solon in return asked him what he meant. I mean to say, he replied, that in mind you are all young; there is no old opinion handed down among you by ancient tradition, nor any science which is hoary with age. And I will tell you why.

There have been, and will be again, many destructions of mankind arising out of many causes; the greatest have been brought about by the agencies of fire and water, and other lesser ones by innumerable other causes. There is a story, which even you have preserved, that once upon a time Paethon, the son of Helios, having yoked the steeds in his father's chariot, because he was not able to drive them in the path of his father, burnt up all that was upon the earth, and was himself destroyed by a thunderbolt. Now this has the form of a myth, but really signifies a declination of the bodies moving in the heavens around the earth, and a great conflagration of things upon the earth, which recurs after long intervals; at such times those who live upon the mountains and in dry and lofty places are more liable to destruction than those who dwell by rivers or on the seashore. And from this calamity the Nile, who is our never-failing saviour, delivers and preserves us.

When, on the other hand, the gods purge the earth with a deluge of water, the survivors in your country are herdsmen and shepherds who dwell on the mountains, but those who, like you, live in cities are carried by the rivers into the sea. Whereas in this land, neither then nor at any other time, does the water come down from above on the fields, having always a tendency to come up from below; for which reason the traditions preserved here are the most ancient. The fact is, that wherever the extremity of winter frost or of summer does not prevent, mankind exist, sometimes in greater, sometimes in lesser numbers. And whatever happened either in your country or in ours, or in any other region of which we are informed-if there were any actions noble or great or in any other way remarkable, they have all been written down by us of old, and are preserved in our temples.

Whereas just when you and other nations are beginning to be provided with letters and the other requisites of civilized life, after the usual interval, the stream from heaven, like a pestilence, comes pouring down, and leaves only those of you who are destitute of letters and education; and so you have to begin all over again like children, and know nothing of what happened in ancient times, either among us or among yourselves. As for those genealogies of yours which you just now recounted to us, Solon, they are no better than the tales of children.
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Old 15-01-2013, 07:55 PM   #14
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Jews are derived from the Indian philosophers; they are named by the Indians Calami, and by the Syrians Judaei, and took their name from the country they inhabit, which is called Judea; but for the name of their city, it is a very awkward one, for they call it Jerusalem.
This comment is allegedly attributed to Clearchus of Soli as quoted by Josephus. Megasthenes is said to have written something similar. Allegedly Aristotle, the mentor of Alexander the Great, also may have written something similar.

I have no idea who the Calami were other than it is a fairly common name in India. Clarchus also said the Indian gymnosophists (naked philosophers) were descendants of Magi and a gymnosophist who accompanied Alexander the Great was named Kalyana (or Calanus) which is similar. Also the phonetically similar Koliya was the name of a "Solar" clan related to the Shakya. Gautama Buddha was a Shakya. Both clans were members of the Kshatriya, a Hindu warrior class.

Brahma, a Hindu deity, is the progenitor of all humans. He is a creation god that forms a trinity with Vishnu and Shiva. He is the father of Manu who is similar to the Abrahamic Noah. Brahma's wife is Saraswati, a river goddess who the Sarasvati River was named after. I say was named after because the river is dried up which forced migrations of people and population movements.



Speaking of Abraham, notice the phonetic similarity in name to Brahma. Brahmin is also the name of a Hindu class. Abraham's wife is Sarah (originally Sarai). Also notice the phonetic similarity in name to Saraswati. She also forms a trinity along with Lakshmi and Parvati which compliments Brahma's (and refers to creator, maintainer, destroyer). Some sources claim that she is also Brahma's sister as well as his wife. Sarah/Sarai is Abraham's sister as well as his wife.

The Sarasvati River was once a very important river for the Indus Valley Civilization. Its drying is one of the possible causes for the abandonment of the civilization. It is thought that a remnant of the river is the Ghaggar/Hakra river. The Hakra 'river' is a dried out river channel that IVC ruins have been found along. It is a continuation of the Ghaggar river which only flows seasonally. And here we have another phoentic similarity with the biblical Abraham. Hagar was the handmaid of Sarai who Abraham had Ishmael with.

Abram/Abraham - Brahma/Brahmin
Sarai/Sarah - Saraswati
Hagar - Ghaggar/Hakra


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghaggar-Hakra_river

One of the reasons that Abraham had a child with Hagar is because Sarai was barren and could not have children. Eventually 'god' makes Sarai pregnant with Isaac. Hagar and Sarah don't get along, so Hagar and Ishmael are freed (since they are technically slaves) which also means free from Abraham's inheritance (they get none). Hagar and Ishmael leave for the desert and almost die from thirst after running out of water until 'god' makes a well appear. They settle in the desert of Paran. The Ghaggar River (when it's flowing) flows through Haryana and there a pockets of tiny rivers called Sarasvati nearby, including near a marshy area of the desert called Rann. Could Paran be related to this Rann and/or Haryana?

We know there was a very large civilization in ancient times in this part of the world likely following this 'barren' Sarasvati River, the Indus Valley Civilization:


We know that it was abandoned but we don't know why, but if the river dried up it would certainly be a good reason for abandoning it. Abraham is originally from "Ur of the Chaldees", land associated with modern Iraq and the Chaldeans who lived their in ancient times. Chaldeans are a modern ethno-religious group related to the ancient Assyrians, but in ancient times Chaldean mainly referred to Babylonian astronomers and astrologers.

Abraham & Company left Ur for Canaan but for a while settled in Haran or Aran, also the name of a brother of Abraham. The Hindu religious beliefs and mythology are influenced by the Aryan Vedas. Modern Iran is ancient Persia which used to extend to the territory which included the Indus Valley (Modern Pakistan and North Western India). The name Iran also comes from the word Aryan. Haran is also biblically mentioned as doing trade with Tyre (Phoenicia) and the Phoenicians did have trade routes in the Persian Gulf and Indian Ocean. It also might mean "mountain" according to the Hebrew. The Aryans may or may not have invaded the Indus Valley Civilization. Tamil people claim they (the Tamils) were the original inhabitants and the Aryans came and mixed with them, setting up a caste system. There are competing theories: The Aryan invasion theory, the Aryanization/assimilation theory, and the 'always Aryan' theory.

It's possible that the there is an allegorical story here referring to a migration. One possible interpretation is this:

The Indus Valley Civilization was once a large thriving civilization centered around the Indus River and all of its various branches and tributaries. There is a myth that the Indus River was re-routed which caused other rivers to dry up. This may have included the Sarasvati River which seemed to be very important in Vedic times.

Sarai being barren might be reffering to the desertification of the Sarasvati River. Hagar possibly refers to the Ghaggar River and dried up Hakra River. Perhaps at one time both rivers possibly flowed from the Indus and due to a dramatic climate change, the Sarasvati and Hakra part of the Ghaggar dried up while the Ghaggar itself was a shadow of it's former self. Thus the Brahmin of the Sarasvati migrated Westward leaving behind some Haran/Aryan "brothers" who re-located elsewhere in the same region.

Ishamaelites is another name for Arabs who are allegedly descended from Ishmael. The bible claims that they live "from Havilah to Shur, opposite Egypt in the direction of Assyria" and some have interpreted this to mean Havilah is Northwestern India. Havilah apparently means "circular" and the Himalayas are shaped in an arc that is sort of circular. Havilah is where the Amorites got their jewels for their idols. The Amorites lived in the Levant including part of Iraq. Lapis lazuli was the desired jewel of choice in this territory. Lapis lazuli was mined near the Hindu Kush and Himalayan mountains around what today is Kashmir next to Northwestern India. Havilah and Haran are also names of Iranian towns (and I think there is a Haran in Armenia or Turkey).

The bible lists two descendants of Noah Havilah, one from the line of Cush the son of Ham, the other the line of Joktan of Shem. The latter is associated with Arabs while the former is associated with Africa. But Kush is a name found in India too, again it's the name of the mountains near where the Lapis lazuli was mined and also in Rann of Kutch. Arabs have long claimed ancestry dating to Abraham, but so have Persians. Some biblical historians have even placed the Garden of Eden near the Tarim Basin next to the same area. This is the same Central Asian vicinity where the Indo-Aryan-European migration appears to have originated near as well. Even words similar to "Eden" and "Paradise" (Paradesi, including a group of Indian Jews who call themselves Paradesi Jews) are still found in this part of the world.

The Kushan Empire


I won't go into much detail regarding the Kushan Empire other than mentioning that it was located in the same region I've been describing, and that it was a branch of the Yuezhi confederation.

Yuezhi




About 2,000 years ago, the Yuezhi were forced to migrate around the Tarim Basin and Himalayas for various reasons. Yuezhi isn't far off from Yehudi. Are they related? Well they're probably related to the Turks. Yuezhi were also called Towkar by the Chinese which sounds an awful lot like Turk. It also sounds like Tocharian. The Tocharian mummies are the Caucasoid mummies found near the Tarim Basin:


The Yuezhi once lived near where many of the pyramids have been found in China. From this point on, many related clans/tribes/groups of people sprung out of these guys and others in the area, eventually including the Mongols after 1,000 years later. One of those groups (who eventually became the Manchurians) were the Jurchens. Jurchen was pronounced Jusen. Since these languages are not all related, these might just be unrelated phonetic coincidences but I don't think so. I think we are dealing with a related element within these groups of people including traditions and cultural.

There have been Jews in India since before the time of Christ:


In modern times when discovered they only followed some traditions and lacked scripture. The various Afghanis tribes including people in Pakistan and Kashmir also claim to be related to ancient tribes of Israel. One group of Indians, the Jats, have long been a people apart from the rest of the Hindu castes, normally remaining outside of it. Gypsies (Romani people) who were once thought to have been Egyptian () hence the name, are genetically and linguistically related to the Jats and left possibly due to persecution (Does Roma come from Rama? Rame who was born in Ayudha). And though the Jats were traditionally peasants until recent times, maybe before the Romani 'exodus' they had a higher social standing? Jats like to claim that they are related to a lot of different people, not unlike how Indo-European people claim relation to Scythians and Trojans. Sometimes they claim Jews, but most of these claims have to do with Goths who are again also known as Got, Get, and Jute

I think the likelihood of an Indian origin of at least something related to the Jewish traditions is a sure thing based on the Abraham story alone. Perhaps even philosophically related which makes sense when you consider the Hellenistic Alexandrian Jews and Essenes living simply as vegetarians (not unlike in India). But once this mixed with the local Canaanite and Phoenician traditions, it became debased. I think it's also a possibility that Indo-Europeans, Jews, and Turks share a common origin that split along the way a very long time ago. This is probably why Indo-Europeans feel such a strong attachment to the bible, even in the Old Testament. I just don't think that most of that Old Testament is being interpreted properly. I also think the location of the bible has virtually nothing to do with Palestine and much more to do with modern Turkey.

Conclusion

The India theory is related to the Turk theory. It also has a new element - the Aryans. As I mentioned in an earlier post, the climate in Siberia used to be much different. Some sort of catastrophic change caused mass population movements. Rivers and bodies of water changed course and dried up. Formally tropical land became frozen or desert. It's possible that the Caspian Sea may have once been much larger during the time period and the Taklamakan Desert may have been a paradise.

There are plenty of myths as well as geological and archeological evidence to support such a theory. There has also been a mass migration of peoples. I think the Indo-Aryan proto-European people originated in Central Asia around the Tarim Basin, probably near Kyrgyzstan. The Ainu people are probably a genetic ancestor (but far removed genetically) to Caucasian peoples. Various migrations occurred including to Siberia and from Siberia to Western Europe, and to Kashmir/India/Pakistan/Afghanistan across Iran to Turkey where the people migrating people met up. Others stayed behind and mixed with local populations becoming people like Turks who later also migrated. So I think that real Jewish history is shared with that of our own history (those of us who are not Jews).

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Old 15-01-2013, 08:02 PM   #15
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Thanks bn - when I read the 13th tribe a few yrs back -I was totally sold - they didn't kill him and his wife in a London hotel room for nothing.

"What does this have to do with Khazaria and Jews? Everything. It has everything to do with Jewish origins. This is closer to the real "Jewish origins" than the official historical narratives or any biblical narratives claim even if it isn't conclusive. This historical Jews were not just a bunch of tribes living in Palestine. They lived from Yemen to beyond Georgia at various times and with some territorial exceptions. They also lived among and quite possibly were nomadic steppe Turks. They definitely settled all along the Silk Road as far as Japan. Some people trying to put this all together claim they branched off from the Aryans. I have doubts to this, but I don't doubt that they mixed with Aryans. Both genetically and with traditions. "

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Old 16-01-2013, 03:07 PM   #16
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The hieroglyphic signs for
Son of Ra are a goose and the sun disc, giving the
letters SA and RA.

Son of Ra" - along with "King of upper and lower Egypt" - were the name prefixes of many of the pharaohs. The hieroglyphic signs for Son of Ra is a goose and the sun disc, giving the letters SA and RA. Note that the direction in which you read can vary - look for the direction, in which persons or animals look. They indicate from which direction a text is to be read: In this case the goose is looking to the right, so the text is to be read from right to left. These hieroglyphs are found in the entrance of the large temple at Abu Simbel.



Source: http://ancientworldegypt.com/
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Old 16-01-2013, 07:47 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by lizzy View Post
Thanks bn - when I read the 13th tribe a few yrs back -I was totally sold - they didn't kill him and his wife in a London hotel room for nothing.
Koestler's "suicide" is definitely suspicious. Although I've read that "friends" claimed he was suicidal and it wasn't surprising, "friends" off celebs like MJ with suspicious deaths themselves turn out not to be friends whatsoever. Apparently he had cancer or something, but this supposedly was kept "secret". He did have Parkinson's though and that's a horrible disease to suffer from.

But the suspicious part is his the "dual suicide" involving his perfectly healthy wife who was only in her 50s.

Koestler's personal history is very interesting too. In his younger years he was a Zionist and a communist and in his later years he was an anti-communist on the CIA's payroll too. He went from being a political activist when he was younger to being devoted with spirituality, mysticism, and paranormal occult stuff. I think he was influenced by other Jewish political activists and communists and got caught up in in, lived through the war, and later on in life something really changed and he realized not all is as it seems.

I would say that his mindset later in life was a lot like Stanley Kubrick's (also Jewish). Somebody else who may have been killed for revealing too much, although nobody can agree on what it is he revealed.

Jews don't seem to universally agree or disagree on this Khazar thing. Some are fine with it, some try to make the Khazars out to be as if they were the progenitors of civilization (which sprung from the area way earlier methinks, but not from Khazars), others say it is an "antisemitic" conspiracy theory. If you look it up on wikipedia it's a real mess that comes to no real conclusion. People spin genetic test results any way they want, the DNA doesn't debunk the Khazar theory and the "Middle Eastern" Y-DNA haplogroups are also concentrated in the Caucasus.

That Khazar theory has been known for a while though. Especially in Moorish Spain, the Jews had a romance with a book called Kuzari:


They thought the two Iberias were related (and I'm convinced they were, but not because of Jews but because of Phoenicians who I think were the "real" Jews so-to-speak).

I think this is just one piece of a larger puzzle
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Old 16-01-2013, 08:05 PM   #18
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now that is what I call history, not a bunch of Hocus Pocus prophecies that was pushed through our throats when we were young and we were forced to call it history

we should also be aware how Jews want to rewrite the history of Egypt in Hollywood movies, they want to give us an impression that the Pyramids and Egyptian wonders were built by Jewish "slaves" when they were back to Egypt

I think I'm going to make this thread a basic source of information to debunk the Pseudo Jewish history

thanks BN
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Old 16-01-2013, 08:15 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sundeep View Post
The hieroglyphic signs for
Son of Ra are a goose and the sun disc, giving the
letters SA and RA.

Son of Ra" - along with "King of upper and lower Egypt" - were the name prefixes of many of the pharaohs. The hieroglyphic signs for Son of Ra is a goose and the sun disc, giving the letters SA and RA. Note that the direction in which you read can vary - look for the direction, in which persons or animals look. They indicate from which direction a text is to be read: In this case the goose is looking to the right, so the text is to be read from right to left. These hieroglyphs are found in the entrance of the large temple at Abu Simbel.



Source: http://ancientworldegypt.com/
You mean for Sarah, right? Or are you alluding to the word Israel? I'm going to speculate in a bit about Phoenicians in this thread. I mentioned earlier that Aramaic speakers self-identified with a 'word' that is 'spelled' SR without vowels (the Semitic root MSR for Egypt apparently means to bind) which became Syrian. Tyre (Phoenicia) was also called SR.

I think there is some sort of symbolism in the name change from Sarai to Sarah. If Sarai really means my princess as opposed to Sarah which is just princess. If this scripture is truly Eastern in ultimate origin and is in any way associated with philosophy, then it probably has something to do with "the self". A philosopher might say that all possessions are "god's possessions" and nothing belongs to you, therefore to say "my" is 'offensive' to 'god' so-to-speak. Which is something like what Philo would have said. His interpretation is different but still similar:

Quote:
We will now speak of his wife, Sarah, for she too had her name changed to Sarrah by the addition of the one element, the letter rho. These, then, are the names, and we must now explain what they mean. Sarah, being interpreted, signifies "my authority," but Sarrah signifies "princess;" the former name, (78) therefore, is a symbol of specific virtue, but the latter of generic virtue. But in proportion as genus is superior to species in regard of quantity, in the same proportion does the latter name excel the former; for species is something small and perishable, but genus is numerous and immortal, (79) and the intention of God is to bestow great and immortal things instead of such as are small and perishable, and this is a task suited to his dignity.
And if it has something to do with the river drying up (and I think it's related) it could also mean something like re-locating among other tribes and living as slaves (Hagar) versus living elsewhere freely among like-minded people. Now where this could fit with Son of Ra I will speculate that it is a mark of kinship among this specific (re-located) tribe.
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Old 16-01-2013, 08:29 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sundeep View Post
The hieroglyphic signs for
Son of Ra are a goose and the sun disc, giving the
letters SA and RA.

Son of Ra" - along with "King of upper and lower Egypt" - were the name prefixes of many of the pharaohs. The hieroglyphic signs for Son of Ra is a goose and the sun disc, giving the letters SA and RA. Note that the direction in which you read can vary - look for the direction, in which persons or animals look. They indicate from which direction a text is to be read: In this case the goose is looking to the right, so the text is to be read from right to left. These hieroglyphs are found in the entrance of the large temple at Abu Simbel.



Source: http://ancientworldegypt.com/


Shu (Su) was the god of dry air, wind and the atmosphere.

He was also related to the sun, possibly as an aspect of sunlight.

He was the son of the creator god, father of the twin sky and the earth deities and the one who held the sky off of the earth.

He was one of the gods who protected Ra on his journey through the underworld, using magic spells to ward off Ra's enemy, the snake-demon Apep.


http://crystalinks.com/shu.html



J = 'sh'

Last edited by sugarelf; 16-01-2013 at 08:29 PM.
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