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Old 21-09-2012, 04:53 PM   #1
jechyrah
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Question Lord of the Rings

Does anybody else think this could be plausible?



http://www.ufodigest.com/article/lor...s-real-history

"Recent discoveries by archaeologists and historians have found evidence that indicates that elves, giants, dragons and even hobbits once existed on earth. Norse legends, Sumerian texts and the discovery of hobbits and giant eagles on the island of Flores indicate that the Lord of the Rings may be more fact than fiction.

Dirk Vander Ploeg in his new book, Quest for Middle-earth, has discovered the secret of why Tolkien believed that royal blood (San Graal) must be preserved and why it was imperative that his characters Arwen and Aragorn marry. Learn about the knowledge he possessed decades before publication of the best sellers Holy Blood Holy Grail and The Da Vinci Code.

Dirk has researched scientific, biblical and historical texts to discover if J.R.R. Tolkien had secret knowledge of earth’s early history and if he based the Lord of the Rings on this knowledge.

Find out why Tolkien, an Oxford University professor of Anglo-Saxon and English language, learned to speak Finnish fluently and why he studied Norse folktales that were thousands of years old. As a devout Roman Catholic he believed in one God, so why did he imagine a setting and a cast of characters for his Middle-earth that had one main God and a pantheon of minor gods?"
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Old 21-09-2012, 05:03 PM   #2
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Certainly small skeletons have been found that were nicknamed Hobbits by paleontologists.
Giants are a possibility, I've seen pictures of giant skeletons but without knowing the details I can't say if they were genuine.
Dragons are doubtful unless the author is just talking about prehistoric flying reptiles, never seen a skeleton of one though.
Elves? hmm.... hard to believe.
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Old 21-09-2012, 05:15 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by jechyrah View Post
Find out why Tolkien, an Oxford University professor of Anglo-Saxon and English language, learned to speak Finnish fluently and why he studied Norse folktales that were thousands of years old.
Probably because it was directly relevant to his job. Also, a number of biographical sources state he wasn't 'fluent' in Finnish, but was pretty much at 'advanced learner' level.
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Old 21-09-2012, 05:56 PM   #4
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I think he based it on history that's been covered up. Namely different beings sharing the planet and a dark force coming and taking over. In his book, mankind won but in reality, sauron did.
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Old 21-09-2012, 06:07 PM   #5
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I personally think it's possible that dragons, giants, magicians and other 'creatures" were once on this planet. Mankind is evil in itself, that's why we cover up things like this.
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Old 21-09-2012, 06:28 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by jechyrah View Post
I personally think it's possible that dragons, giants, magicians and other 'creatures" were once on this planet. Mankind is evil in itself, that's why we cover up things like this.
I think it's more accurate to say that we're vulnerable to being influenced by evil, rather than we are evil. We do lots of good, too, it's just that only evil gets reported or noticed. It's like they say, people only remember the bad things you've done to them rather than the good. Part of survival I suppose, to remember the risks to you rather than things that were pleasant.

As for dragons and giants, why would different civilisations around the world all come up with the exact same 'creatures' if they were fake? I think that speaks volumes. It's the same with magicians. All these different people around the world create the same things with the same properties and many even have connected names. If they were just made up I'd expect them to be different and for some to be present and some not in each group. They all agree these things existed.
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Old 21-09-2012, 07:05 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by trux newman View Post
I think he based it on history that's been covered up. Namely different beings sharing the planet and a dark force coming and taking over. In his book, mankind won but in reality, sauron did.
Tolkien placed the events in our Earth's actual history although he stressed that none of the locations were real but they were based on ancient Europe. Several people have noticed the similarity to his map of Middle Earth with that of Europe's. The Shire aligns with Wales, Mordor lines up with Romania in the Carpathian Mountains. Gondor is Northern Italy.



This map isn't as rough a fit as you'd think. Map of ME for comparison:



Notice in the first map they have filled in the submerged continental areas which exist today (light blue shore/shallow areas):



Now take a look at this and compare it to the first map:



16th century map by Mercator of "Tartaria" or what is today North Eastern Russia and mostly Siberia. Ignore the pink "Europe Pars" (part of Europe), the Arabian Peninsula and the land on both sides of the Red Sea, and most of Persia and China. Focus mostly on the top portion of the map. The pole, and the adjacent yellow and pink Northern areas.

Now take "Oceanus Sythicus" and compare it to Anfauglith. You have to rotate the map in your head. They match up pretty good. Now match the 'hook' on the Porcupine Seabight to the similar 'hook' on Mercator's Black Sea. Match Spain with hist Turkey. His Caspian Sea with the Mediterranean. And his smaller circle lake with the Sea of Rhun (Black Sea).

Here is what I think happened. Mercator, living in the 16th century Germany, would have had access to accurate maps of Europe. Europe was accurately mapped up to Russia. Past that everything was inaccurate. Either Mercator or a predecessor came across an ancient map of Europe and thought Spain was Turkey and the Bay of Biscay was the Black Sea. They roughly shoehorned it into the known geography.

Tolkien did extensive studying on religion, mythology, and history. I think LOTR was written with the knowledge he accumulated to tell a fictionalized account of what may have been the history of our ancient predecessors. Like he wrote, history becomes legend becomes myth.
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Old 21-09-2012, 07:25 PM   #8
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Gondor is the territory of the Holy Roman Empire, so Germany, Austria, northern Italy and the Benelux.
Rohan is in my view Scandinavia.

There is even an analogy to post WWII events.
Gondor is administered by a Stewardship, apparently an usurper, but originally a place holder for the king.
Now, in 2012, we still wait for the "king" to return in Germany, to get rid of the illegal Stewardship.
It is why the white tree of Gondor will only carry leaves if the King returned.

Quote:
The German Nibelungen and the corresponding Old Norse form Niflung (Niflungr) is the name in Germanic and Norse mythology of the royal family or lineage of the Burgundians who settled at Worms.

The vast wealth of the Burgundians is often referred to as the Niblung or Niflung hoard. In some German texts Nibelung appears instead as one of the supposed original owners of that hoard, either the name of one of the kings of a people known as the Nibelungs, or in variant form Nybling, as the name of a dwarf. In Richard Wagner's opera cycle Der Ring des Nibelungen, Nibelung denotes a dwarf, or perhaps a specific race of dwarves.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nibelung
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Originally Posted by tinyint View Post
Hehe, the "Elben".
All based on Germanic/norse mythology, eg the Edda.
Its said, there are elves, wights, dwarfs, and gods... and men.
Hence we still have words left in German, eg Alptraum, because myth goes elves come with nightmares(Alptraum).
Also the Germanic name Alfred has Elben(Elves) in it.(Alf=Elb)

It could be speculated about the names "Elbe" river as well as the "Alps".

I would anybody recommend the Tolkien's Silmarillion, as well as Jocob Grimm's "Teutonic mythology".
Just noticed an orthographic mistake... Albtraum(nightmare)

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showp...&postcount=190

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showp...&postcount=133

Quote:
J.Michael Straczynski admitted in an interview he was highly inspired by Tolkien.
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showp...4&postcount=43
Before Tolkien wrote LotR, he spent quite some time in the Oxford library.

Last edited by tinyint; 22-09-2012 at 09:18 AM.
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Old 21-09-2012, 08:13 PM   #9
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Thanks for those maps believe and your information tiny. Keep it coming
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Old 22-09-2012, 09:13 AM   #10
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Tolkien - great man, great works. A wizard, I'd say.

Here's "The Encyclopedia of Arda", excellent site to get along in Tolkien's world.
http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/

As I was looking for a certain Tolkien quote for a friend last night, I stumbled upon this article:
http://swordofelysium.wordpress.com/...-of-the-rings/

Interesting analysis. (Although too biased on Aryan superiority for my taste. Someone could bring up a Nazi-comparison too easy and run Tolkien's work down. [What do you think tinyint? ] But form your own opinion.)
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Old 22-09-2012, 09:23 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by konrad View Post
Interesting analysis. (Although too biased on Aryan superiority for my taste. Someone could bring up a Nazi-comparison too easy and run Tolkien's work down. [What do you think tinyint? ] But form your own opinion.)
In my opinion, if you leave out the "nazi" part and get rid of the indoctrination, certainly, LotR and the ring war bears some resemblance of WWII and the epic struggle against the enemies of the humans.

I think the one ring is actually the debt money.

The more interesting question to me, given the maps BN posted, where is modor located on a real map?
Granted I am right with Gondor, then Mordor would be the area around the black sea, Georgia and the Caucasus, probably stretching to the Balkans.
If I think a bit further, that would be the region where eg the often claimed Khazarian empire was located, and eg where Stalin was born.

I always thought the Mordor hoard was depicting the godless Soviets.

Last edited by tinyint; 22-09-2012 at 09:34 AM.
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Old 22-09-2012, 09:49 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by tinyint View Post
In my opinion, if you leave out the "nazi" part, certainly, LotR bears some resemblence of WWII and the epic struggle against the enemies of the humans.
Tx! That's what I meant - there's a good load of truth in it - if we take the "races" as they are (without nazi/political bias), the story might tell of the wars between the bloodlines, Good and Evil (see the First Age).
No one can call Tolkien a Nazi. After all he had been in the Battle of the Somme.

I guess you're right with the location of Mordor and the Khazarian empire.
Also think of the men from the east that betray the High Men in the First Age, the invaders from the east in the other ages.

Tolkien's works show great influences of Nordic folklore...

Quote:
The story of the Scandinavian hero Odin, says that he came from Asaland or Asaheim, which just happens to be the lands of Scythia and can be identified in Aryan India. From there about 200 to 300 AD, it is said, Odin led a huge army north to conquer Sweden. His army was called the Svear and in Swedish that country is still called Sverige, the Land of the Svear.
- D. Icke, The Biggest Secret
I also told my friend of Tolkien's "Genesis": The world was made of thoughts and music (vibration). Does this ring a bell?
Seen in that light, Arda reminds me of our Matrix.
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Old 22-09-2012, 10:00 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by konrad View Post
Tx! That's what I meant - there's a good load of truth in it - if we take the "races" as they are (without nazi/political bias), the story might tell of the wars between the bloodlines, Good and Evil (see the First Age).
No one can call Tolkien a Nazi. After all he had been in the Battle of the Somme.
Battle of the Somme - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I guess you're right with the location of Mordor and the Khazarian empire.
Also think of the men from the east that betray the High Men in the First Age, the invaders from the east in the other ages.

Tolkien's works show great influences of Nordic folklore...



I also told my friend of Tolkien's "Genesis": The world was made of thoughts and music (vibration). Does this ring a bell?
Seen in that light, Arda reminds me of our Matrix.
Just leave this "nazi" behind. It is totally inappropriate, and the term was invented by a marxist traitor, so just you know.
Make yourself free from this "nazi" stuff and putting disclaimers, I know it is difficult if German.

The dark lord of Mordor invented the word "nazi" to demonize Gondor because they tried to destroy the one ring.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Silmarillion

Quote:
To find the secrets of the universe, think in terms of energy, frequency and vibration

-Nikola Tesla
In the beginning was the word...

Last edited by tinyint; 22-09-2012 at 10:22 AM.
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Old 22-09-2012, 10:00 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by trux newman View Post
I think it's more accurate to say that we're vulnerable to being influenced by evil, rather than we are evil. We do lots of good, too, it's just that only evil gets reported or noticed. It's like they say, people only remember the bad things you've done to them rather than the good. Part of survival I suppose, to remember the risks to you rather than things that were pleasant..
I agree.we are far too easily influenced by the evil deceivers. It would be a different ball game if the emphasis was on good and love as I think people remember the love and good times more than the bad...
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Old 22-09-2012, 10:18 AM   #15
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Oh, and think of Atalantë (Númenor) or Bablon, Ninwi, Trui, Rúm and the history of England in The Book of Lost Tales

About the ring: Odin had one, too. Draupnir. It was put on the funeral pyre of his son Baldr:

Quote:
Odin laid upon the pyre the gold ring called Draupnir; this quality attended it: that every ninth night there fell from it eight gold rings of equal weight. (from the Gylfaginning).
But it was subsequently retrieved by Hermodr.

If you take the ring poem - yes, we are bound by the ring/money. - High time to destroy it.
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Old 22-09-2012, 10:26 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by tinyint View Post
Just leave this "nazi" behind. It is totally inappropriate, and the term was invented by a marxist traitor, so just you know.
Make yourself free from this "nazi" stuff and putting disclaimers, I know it is difficult if German.

The dark lord of Mordor invented the word "nazi" to demonize Gondor.
Tx, friend!
Yep, a habit hard to shake of as German. Just wanted to make some things clear before someone comes up with this stuff. (Klar, wer sich verteidigt, klagt sich an...)

Dark Lord, Mordor... I've read somewhere "Sauron is alive in Argentina" - I'll have to think about it... ;D
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Old 22-09-2012, 10:29 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by konrad View Post
Tx, friend!
Yep, a habit hard to shake of as German. Just wanted to make some things clear before someone comes up with this stuff. (Klar, wer sich verteidigt, klagt sich an...)

Dark Lord, Mordor... I've read somewhere "Sauron is alive in Argentina" - I'll have to think about it... ;D
The dark lord is not Hitler, it is the talmudic cabal. If you wish, Sauron, the student of Morgoth(Melkor), the devil, satan, whatever, is maybe Stalin.

I really would like to get past this "nazi" and Hitler references please.

Last edited by tinyint; 22-09-2012 at 10:32 AM.
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Old 22-09-2012, 10:42 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by tinyint View Post
I really would like to get past this "nazi" and Hitler references please.
Sorry, wasn't meant this way.

Sure Morgoth is some kind of fallen angel. And my intention was more like: "Where is Sauron 'hiding' in this world". When the story resembles WWII, where are the powers (good/evil) now? Can we find more parallels? And thus tools or advise to break the spell."
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Old 22-09-2012, 10:48 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by konrad View Post

Sure Morgoth is some kind of fallen angel. And my intention was more like: "Where is Sauron 'hiding' in this world". When the story resembles WWII, where are the powers (good/evil) now? Can we find more parallels? And thus tools or advise to break the spell."
The ring is in London and New York.

The spell breaker, well, I won't talk about this here.

Edit: A hint would be the "Vree Xil" in Babylon 5 link I posted. Reminds of something?

Quote:
The Vree were one of the first species that made contact with the Humans. They visit Earth more or less regularly from the 1950's on but mankind wasn't ready for an official first contact procedure yet.
Kombiniere mal etwas mit Vree und Xil.

Last edited by tinyint; 22-09-2012 at 03:06 PM.
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Old 22-09-2012, 05:26 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by tinyint View Post
In my opinion, if you leave out the "nazi" part and get rid of the indoctrination, certainly, LotR and the ring war bears some resemblance of WWII and the epic struggle against the enemies of the humans.

I think the one ring is actually the debt money.

The more interesting question to me, given the maps BN posted, where is modor located on a real map?
Granted I am right with Gondor, then Mordor would be the area around the black sea, Georgia and the Caucasus, probably stretching to the Balkans.
If I think a bit further, that would be the region where eg the often claimed Khazarian empire was located, and eg where Stalin was born.

I always thought the Mordor hoard was depicting the godless Soviets.
Mordor would be in that vicinity. I've gone back and forth about that Khazar thing because I couldn't find much evidence. But one thing that is left out when the matter is brought up on the internet (which is even mentioned by Koestler) is the Khazarian presence in Eastern Europe. It's not a theory at all, the Magyars were invaded by Khazars. It is part of Hungarian history yet rarely mentioned for whatever reason. Were they really invaded is what I would like to know because Magyar tribes lived along the same Black and Caspian Sea territory earlier with Khazars, and Huns before them. Magyars and Huns invaded Western Europe centuries prior to that. I have a feeling these were all related peoples.

The mostly Ashkenazi Hungarian scientists used to joke that they were Martians. The common ancestor to Huns and Khazars were the Gokturks. The ruling dynasty among the Gokturks was the Ashina tribe. The Gok in Gokturks means celestial as in the 'people from the sky'. The great khans of the Mongols are also thought to be descended from the Ashina Gokturks. They most likely created the Silk Road trade route. And because I'm obsessed with phoenetic similarities (which could be dead ends) I wonder if Gok and Gog are related. Mongol and Magog have been assumed before along with Magyr and Magog. And it has long been debated if the Hun in Hungarian came from the Huns.

This historical Odin is thought to be a Hunnish chief named Uldin:


Snorri Sturluson's Heimskringla gives a historical and geographical history to the Aesir. It says they come from Asgard, a city in Asaland which he equates with Asia. Phonetic similarity I never picked up on before reading it (Aesir/Asia). If I remember correctly, the Aesir lived on one side of the Volga River and the Vanir lived on the other, right in the area of Khazaria. The Aesir invaded and conquered the Vanir. Odin the marches Westward and has many sons and sets up many kingdoms (the sons of Odin associated with a raven and a wolf are also common 'unrelated' historical myths in Asia) with his sons as rulers.

I have no doubt that Vanir is the same people as the various An or Dan peoples like the Tuatha Dé Danann and even the Anunnaki. The V is unimportant because it's like the Aryan Vedas becoming Norse Eddas.

My opinion is that there is more real history in mythology than actual history. Even if some of it is fictional or exaggerated. We've forgotten our history. Tolkien's LOTR was a fictionalized account of antiquity based on his studies of history and myth. That Silmarillion story with the music is similar to the gnostic account of creation where Sophia gives 'birth' to the demiruge while 'out of sync' with the the supreme being.

Rings were important in ancient times too:



Zoroastrian Faravahar. Zoroastrianism was an Aryan theology. The ancient Persian empire was vast and extended to India. Iran literally means Aryan or home of the Aryans. The Aryans have nothing to do with racial supremacist nonsense. The negative connotation with that word deliberately hides it's true meaning. The same can be said of the swastika which is not at all an evil symbol. It is found all over Asia and carved into broken pottery shards and walls in a very ancient Russian city called Arkaim (which might be older than Sumeria). It is also found in pottery and plates near Iraq which are thousands of years old (allegedly).

Inanna/Ishtar with ring:

Egyptian Shen ring:

Notice the resemblance to the Libra symbol:

The difference is the Egyptian Shen is TIED together. The two halves are separated by a breakage which are then united. I think this has something to do with the ring symbolism. A metaphorical message. I don't know what it means though. The only thing I can think of is the two halves of the brain.

Anyways, I read somewhere that there really were large rings of importance which were later turned into crowns by ancient kings and that it is this ring symbolism which influenced Tolkien. Not sure if I believe that though.

Maybe I'm just crazy, I dunno
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