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Old 25-01-2010, 03:34 PM   #21
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Omg noo masons say they're humanists, noooo!
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Old 25-01-2010, 03:44 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by whatistruth View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89jt7zJzkNQ

Omg noo masons say they're humanists, noooo!
If science is so great how come it can't explain 96 percent of the universe?

I can too you muppet!


Humanism is by far and away the most insanely dangerous creed ever to surface on the planet.

It means no values of right or wrong, no true and no false, Man is the only measure of man, there is no God, no immortal soul and death comes for all.

No wonder with that head full of bullshit some of the nastiest genocides have been carried out by these people:
The Japan bombings (thanks for the a-bomb science Mr Teller!), Hitler's and the Russian genocides, the French revolution, Chairman Mao, Khymer Rouge.

The one thing they have in common is humanism and the unfailing belief in science.

As far as I can tell science has achieved nothing but the ability to kill lots of people, half destroy the planet, and allow me to wash my whites at lower temparatures....

Gee thanks! What a bargain...

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Old 25-01-2010, 03:48 PM   #23
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The brain is nothing but a lump of fat. Just explain to me how something mechanical like physics can create conciousness? No matter how advanced the mechanic is, it will never be more alive than a steam engine.
By overlaying learned and genetic templates and filters in such a way that when viewed through them the mind in an effort to make sense of what it is seeing fudges conciousness.
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Old 25-01-2010, 03:57 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by edelweiss pirate View Post
If science is so great how come it can't explain 96 percent of the universe?

I can too you muppet!


Humanism is by far and away the most insanely dangerous creed ever to surface on the planet.

It means no values of right or wrong, no true and no false, Man is the only measure of man, there is no God, no immortal soul and death comes for all.

No wonder with that head full of bullshit some of the nastiest genocides have been carried out by these people:
The Japan bombings (thanks for the a-bomb science Mr Teller!), Hitler's and the Russian genocides, the French revolution, Chairman Mao, Khymer Rouge.

The one thing they have in common is humanism and the unfailing belief in science.

As far as I can tell science has achieved nothing but the ability to kill lots of people, half destroy the planet, and allow me to wash my whites at lower temparatures....

Gee thanks! What a bargain...

All nonsense, just complete bull.
For a start religion cannot explain even 1% of the universe, so science is still way way ahead.
So you're basically saying we should reject science and just go with faith beliefs with zero proof?
That sounds much more dangerous to me.

And no humanism doesnt mean no values of right and wrong.
It isn't religion that stops me from doing bad things, it's the fact that I'm not a bad person and would never want to hurt somebody.

Do I need to rattle off all the deaths religion has caused?
Science is the reason you'll probably live until you're 80+ and won't die of preventable diseases.

How are you writing your posts, could it be on a...computer???
HOW WAS THAT COMPUTER CREATED?????
Religion? God?

No?
no?
NO?

Haha.

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Old 25-01-2010, 04:00 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by edelweiss pirate View Post
If science is so great how come it can't explain 96 percent of the universe?

I can too you muppet!

Humanism is by far and away the most insanely dangerous creed ever to surface on the planet.

It means no values of right or wrong, no true and no false, Man is the only measure of man, there is no God, no immortal soul and death comes for all.

No wonder with that head full of bullshit some of the nastiest genocides have been carried out by these people:
The Japan bombings (thanks for the a-bomb science Mr Teller!), Hitler's and the Russian genocides, the French revolution, Chairman Mao, Khymer Rouge.

The one thing they have in common is humanism and the unfailing belief in science.

As far as I can tell science has achieved nothing but the ability to kill lots of people, half destroy the planet, and allow me to wash my whites at lower temparatures....

Gee thanks! What a bargain...
lol

not only that, but you have the issue of the FACT( << In bold just so its understood here) that science cant even make its bloomin mind up about what is fact!

==================

Scientist1: Its a fact, we have proof and know what it is now.

Scientist2: <3 4U

(Scientist3 enters the room)

Scientist3: Erm.. guys, dont wanna rain on your parade or anything, but ah... you know, like, "Scientist4" down the hall?... He just done a similar experiment and the answer changed... which proved your answers a whole sh**load of Penn'n'Tella dude... anyway, thought you might wanna know :S Byeeeeeeeeeee!

Scientist1: Well thats $2trillionbillion blown to sh**....

Scientist2: I have an idea!! Ok, if we pull the triggers at the same time... !!BLAM!!

Ah well
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“What seems to Be, Is, To those to whom It seems to Be, and is productive of the most dreadful Consequences to those to whom it seems to be, even of Torments, Despair, Eternal Death.” - William Blake (“Jerusalem,” Plate 36)

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Old 25-01-2010, 04:04 PM   #26
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All nonsense, just complete bull.
For a start religion cannot explain even 1% of the universe, so science is still way way ahead.
So you're basically saying we should reject science and just go with faith beliefs with zero proof?
That sounds much more dangerous to me.
The highlighted red section is more dangerous and you havent even noticed it.

You think its a match up between religion and science with no alternative?

Small box dude.

Ouch.
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"2. Jesus said, "Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find. When they find, they will be disturbed. When they are disturbed, they will marvel, and will reign over all. [And after they have reigned they will rest.]" - Gospel of Thomas

“What seems to Be, Is, To those to whom It seems to Be, and is productive of the most dreadful Consequences to those to whom it seems to be, even of Torments, Despair, Eternal Death.” - William Blake (“Jerusalem,” Plate 36)
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Old 25-01-2010, 04:05 PM   #27
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Blahblahblah
Your username sums up perfectly the Humanist creed.

What is truth?

Exactly, they believe there is no such thing... which very cleverly allows them act in total contrary to morality and right and wrong which they don't even believe exist....

Anyway this whole topic is horseshit... Science used to be allied with religion, it's only the freemasons and their demonic offspring who have decided to divide the two...

The Egyptians Greeks Romans and Arabs had no problem combining science and religion and they achieved the foundations in which the modern world is built.... It certainly didn't hold them back, indeed their unique mariage of science and technology and spiritism has left a gap in our understanding of their methods and abilities even today.
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Old 25-01-2010, 04:23 PM   #28
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Near Death Experiences, Astral Projection, Lucid Dreaming and some drug-/meditation-/fasting-induced experiences are oddly similar.

It all depends if you have experienced something of this nature yourself. My experience of it is just enough to have thrown away my previous sk/ceptical attitude. I can see how easy it would be to map a religion (pick one!) onto it, but for now I'm letting it just be a quiet sense that this world and life is not all there is...
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Old 25-01-2010, 04:37 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by edelweiss pirate View Post
Your username sums up perfectly the Humanist creed.

What is truth?

Exactly, they believe there is no such thing... which very cleverly allows them act in total contrary to morality and right and wrong which they don't even believe exist....

Anyway this whole topic is horseshit... Science used to be allied with religion, it's only the freemasons and their demonic offspring who have decided to divide the two...

The Egyptians Greeks Romans and Arabs had no problem combining science and religion and they achieved the foundations in which the modern world is built.... It certainly didn't hold them back, indeed their unique mariage of science and technology and spiritism has left a gap in our understanding of their methods and abilities even today.


You fail to address my last post, just saying 'blablablah' doesnt make my points go away, i'll reiterate them.
(this is typical with fundimentalists do when confronted with things that challenge their world view, questions with questions, piffy remarks etc)

>

So you're basically saying we should reject science and just go with faith beliefs with zero proof?
Yes/no?


And no humanism doesnt mean no values of right and wrong.
It isn't religion that stops me from doing bad things, it's the fact that I'm not a bad person and would never want to hurt somebody.
True, or am I evil?



How are you writing your posts, could it be on a...computer???
HOW WAS THAT COMPUTER CREATED?
Religion/science?


religion and science both have the capacity to take this world back 500 years, but I fear it'll be science in the hands of religious people that does it.
So one or the other has to be eradicated, what should we lose, science or dogma?
Logic and reason or antiquated texts promoting bigotry, hatred and closed mindedness?

The whole concept of souls and an afterlife was thought up when people believed earth was the center of the universe, either join the rest of us in the 21st century or at least post something to back up your faith beliefs insted of just claiming I'm evil.
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Old 25-01-2010, 04:40 PM   #30
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And another thing, psychopathy is a human mental disorder, with equal numbers of psychopaths throughout every faith, creed and belief system on earth.

It is not science vs. religion, it is reason and logic vs. ignorance and dilusion, which you've illustrated perfectly on this thread.
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Old 25-01-2010, 04:45 PM   #31
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And another thing... rant rant bluster bluster
Give it up you sound like a fundamentalist atheist... How long before you idiots start bombing us?

Oops my bad, that's what you do already....

I suppose you don't think 9-11 was an inside job either?

Mate you're just a troll. Just bugger off back to your own dirt patch! Dawkings or Randi or some such shite.

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Old 25-01-2010, 04:48 PM   #32
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Count the victims of the 'enlightenment'.



Quote:

200 Million Victims of the "Enlightenment" in last 80 years alone



The problem with discussing Catholicism with many Native English-speakers is that they come to the table loaded down with so much baggage. They have been formed by 400 years of anti-Catholic propaganda. Consequently, their negative view of Catholicism is in the National subconscious, it is in our blood. If a man actually believes at the level of his sub-conscious that a rose bush is a man-eating tiger, then he will jump and break out in a sweat of fear when he passes a rose bush regardless of the fact that at the level of conscious thought he knows that this is absurd.

The Inquisition

One can illustrate the point that we are making by invoking the Inquisition. The very word will conjure up nightmare visions of some poor Protestant being racked for the good of his soul, while a sadistic hooded monk looks on gloating. The fact is that the word "Inquisition" simply means "Inquiry". And there have been scores of inquisitions throughout the Church’s history. When the popes ruled half of Italy, it was the name given to the Church’s legal system. This was so benign in comparison with the secular legal systems of the time that in the areas where there was dual jurisdiction, accused would seek to be tried by the Inquisition as opposed to the secular courts.

The Spanish Inquisition (1478 to 1808) is the one people usually mean when they talk about the Inquisition. This Inquisition had the misfortune to be operating at a time when the Spanish were our mortal enemies.

To understand the Spanish inquisition one should look at France in 1945. At the end of the last war, members of the French resistance and those who, now the occupation was over, claimed to have been active members of the French resistance, were handing out summary justice without trial to people accused of having been quislings and collaborators. Charles De Gaulle, the post-war President of the Provisional Government of France, cracked down hard on this lawlessness and ensured that if any Frenchman were to be punished for collaborating with the occupying power, it should be after a proper process of law and a fair trial.

The Spanish Queen, Isabelle, and her consort, Ferdinand, were in a not dissimilar situation. They had just ended 700 years of occupation of their country by the Moors. In the civil unrest following the war, the Spanish crown began the Inquisition hoping that religious unity would foster political unity. By the standards of the time, the Inquisition was very enlightened.

One may also point out that while the Church was heavily implicated in the Spanish Inquisition, it was a secular not a Church inquiry.

Most of the penalties handed down were spiritual, rather than physical. Its severest sentences were reserved for people who bore false witness against others. As for torture, in an age when the secular powers (including England) used torture routinely, the Inquisition was restricted by its rules to using it rarely and in very limited circumstances. And as for persecuting Protestants, not one Protestant was ever arrested by the Inquisition, let alone tried - for one very simple reason, the Inquisition regarded non-Catholics as outside its jurisdiction.

Its judicial procedures were far ahead of their time. Such things as the need for witnesses, the rights of the accused to question and challenge their accusers and the right of appeal where all laid down. Inquisitors did not have to be clerics, but they did have to be qualified lawyers.

As for the death penalty, it has been notoriously difficult to reach a consensus on the numbers involved, but the highest number supported by serious historians is in the order of 3000 to 5000 over the entire 330 years of its operation.

While we may all readily agree that 3000 to 5000 was 3000 to 5000 too many, it pales into insignificance in comparison to the 150,000 documented witch-burnings in Protestant Britain, Germany and New England over the same period, where often a mere accusation was enough to send one to the stake. The Spanish were spared this carnage by the judicial standards of the Inquisition and its absolute requirement for hard evidence.

During the Age of Enlightenment, championed by Voltaire and later the French Revolution, people were commonly executed by "breaking on the wheel". A method of execution which very slowly reduced its victims limbs to pulped flesh with shards of bone sticking through. In our enlightened age of course that sort of bloody end is strictly reserved by secularists for unborn children whose only crime is inconveniencing the secular gods of unbridled licentiousness by daring to be conceived.

Queen Mary -v- Queen Elizabeth I

The Protestant journalist and reformer, William Cobbett (1763-1835), describing the Tudor deception, stated that, "for every drop of blood (Catholic) Mary shed, (Protestant) Elizabeth shed a pint." Yet we are conditioned to refer to Mary as "Bloody Mary" and to Elizabeth as "Good Queen Bess", and while the former sends our blood cold, the latter evokes feeling of national pride in a great monarch.

Raphael Holisend, the Protestant historian, wrote that although Henry VIII executed 72,000 Catholics, Elizabeth I killed more than the Spanish and Roman Inquisitions combined did in 300 years! Further, Elizabeth’s warrants frequently dispensed with a trial and proceeded straight to hanging and disembowelling; the penalty for merely being a faithful Catholic priest.

Modern History

It is also interesting to compare the effect that the word "inquisition" has on the soul of the average Englishman with his relatively bland reaction to the following list of facts: 7,000,000 murdered (without trial) by the Nazis (self-confessed pagans); 17,000,000 murdered by Stalin (a militant atheist); a number only exceeded by the Chinese communist (more militant atheists); the 9000 unarmed priests and nuns murdered by the Bolsheviks (more militant atheists) in a few months in Spain (a slaughter which sparked the Spanish civil war); one could add the slaughter by the Rationalists behind the French Revolution (In the two years, 1792-1794, over 40,000 Frenchmen were executed; most without trial and for merely refusing to abandon their Catholic Faith) and the 1,000,000 (a number that would have been nearer 2,000,000 had it not been for the courageous sanctions-busting activities of Irish Catholic missionaries) Biafran babies and young children, who, in less than two years, where starved to death to serve the oil policies of Harold Wilson’s government of secular humanists.

There is a good deal of secularist propaganda to the effect that religion is at the root of all the strife in the world. The facts, as opposed to the propaganda, are very simple. Wars fought by, or on behalf of, the Church (such as the Crusades) have killed about 4,500,000 people over the last 2000 years. Secular humanist, militant atheist and Nazis (i.e. pagans) have accounted for something nearer 200,000,000 in the last 80 years! This means that you are at least a 1000 times more likely to be slaughtered by a militant atheist in the service of his ideology than by a Catholic in the service of his.

Conclusion

You may wonder why when talking about faith we have devoted a whole essay to what is very much a side issue. Well it is important for English speaking people, if they are to explore the faith of the Church in an open and objective way, honestly to face up to the fact that they are coming to the table loaded down with cultural baggage. Further, unless they have the intellectual insight and courage consciously to divest themselves of some of this accumulated bag-gage, they are wasting their time.

Many English Catholics carry some of this baggage, especially the young. Its result is a reduced sense of self-worth, a sort of cultural low self-esteem. It is unavoidable, for anti-Catholicism is in the air we breathe. We take it in with our mother’s milk. It is simply that after 400 years of enculturation we no longer notice that we are doing so.

You may protest that England is no longer a Protestant, but a secular humanist country. However, secular humanism is the daughter of Protestantism (albeit the illegitimate daughter) - it is the antithesis of Catholicism and one of the key ideologies behind the systematic murder of countless millions, born and unborn, in our time.
http://www.freemasonrywatch.org/200_...n_victims.html

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Old 25-01-2010, 04:51 PM   #33
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Default Murderous humanist blood orgy!

This is the meat of the issue!
Quote:
There is a good deal of secularist propaganda to the effect that religion is at the root of all the strife in the world. The facts, as opposed to the propaganda, are very simple. Wars fought by, or on behalf of, the Church (such as the Crusades) have killed about 4,500,000 people over the last 2000 years. Secular humanist, militant atheist and Nazis (i.e. pagans) have accounted for something nearer 200,000,000 in the last 80 years! This means that you are at least a 1000 times more likely to be slaughtered by a militant atheist in the service of his ideology than by a Catholic in the service of his.
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Old 25-01-2010, 04:52 PM   #34
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I'm trying to be kind and curtious here but you flat out refuse to address my well layed out points.

It's quite frustrating reading your childish replies, please answer my questions of you can, I keep answering yours.

I'm not a 'troll', you can't just label anyone with a differing point of view a troll, reminds me of those idiots who call people 'haters' all the time.

I'm clearly not a fundamentalist as I'm actually seeking answers, if evidence other than insults and being told to shut up is provided I will acknowledge it.

And yes, 9/11 was clearly an inside job, all the evidence shows it, from the demolition of building 7 (and probably 1 and 2), to the missing flight data recorders, norad standown on cheneys orders, feds letting the hijackers into the country, the fact NO ONE could of flown those planes they way they were flown, false start tv scripting and on and on.

Now please, answer my previous post or at least provide evidence as to NDE's, that's what the thread is about.

Does anyone think I'm being unreasonable?
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Old 25-01-2010, 04:56 PM   #35
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This is the meat of the issue!
Athiesm isnt a faith one adhears to, it's simply a skeptical scientific analysis of the facts presented.

And for the record a faith did cause the holocaust, except an illuminati faith, namely as far as I can tell the worship of either lucifer or a type of pantheism, it's quite bizzare.
Did you know hitler had what he called 'the throne of lucifer' under the reichstag?
And he sent himler all over the damn place looking for...shambala? shangrila?
Something beginning with S anway.

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Old 25-01-2010, 05:01 PM   #36
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Athiesm isnt a faith one adhears to, it's simply a skeptical scientific analysis of the facts presented.

And for the record a faith did cause the holocaust, except an illuminati faith, namely as far as I can tell the worship of either lucifer or a type of pantheism, it's quite bizzare.
Did you know hitler had what he called 'the throne of lucifer' under the reichstag?
And he sent himler all over the damn place looking for...shambala? shangrila?
Something beginning with S anway.
When I said fundamentalist athiesm I was being deliberately ironic.


I don't know, you just sound as intolerant and self righteous as the religionists, that's the point I was trying to make.

You yourself cannot deny NDE simply because you haven't had one and don't believe in them.

Other people, including myself, get up to all sorts in the astral realm.

Trying to force your views on us when we have not had the same life experiences has all the hallmarks of religious style dogmatism and biggotry.

What you hate you become... How true.

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Old 25-01-2010, 05:08 PM   #37
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I'm not trying to force anything on anyone, I'm simply going about things as methodically as I can.
I cannot find any evidence to the afterlife but I'm more than happy to read or watch anything anyone provides.

What we all need is a little bit of intellectual honesty.

I'm not saying there isn't an afterlife, i'm just saying this pretty much as far as I can tell debunks NDE's.
And for the record most people that actually identify themselfs as atheists are quite annoying to know personally, they think they're high and mighty and have all the answers, I however accept I do not.
And my only worry is I, or any human could not comprehend reality if challenged with the true nature of it

But I'm trying...

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Old 25-01-2010, 05:25 PM   #38
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What about people when they die leave there body
completely and 'can see' the whole room that they are
in very vividly? How can your brain do this if it is still
in your body?

The story of Dianne Morrisey is interesting for example.
She was proclaimed dead for 25 minutes. She walked
around her house for a while. She walked through a wall
for a telephone to call for help , and as she tried to grab
it her hand went through the phone receiver. She recalls
actually looking at her hand for blood! She was totally
aware that she was out of body.

Her prior belief system was very skeptical of NDEs.
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Old 25-01-2010, 05:28 PM   #39
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What about people when they die leave there body
completely and 'can see' the whole room that they are
in very vividly? How can your brain do this if it is still
in your body?

The story of Dianne Morrisey is interesting for example.
She was proclaimed dead for 25 minutes. She walked
around her house for a while. She walked through a wall
for a telephone to call for help , and as she tried to grab
it her hand went through the phone receiver. She recalls
actually looking at her hand for blood! She was totally
aware that she was out of body.

Her prior belief system was very skeptical of NDEs.

A very vivid hallucination, probably only lasted a minute or so until her brain was unable to work anymore, but could of seemed longer to her.

If I seen one scientific paper or experiment where someone astral projects into the next room and reads some numbers off a wall they can;t possibly see, it's solved.

It'd be THAT EASY for all those here who claim to be able to astral project, go on, prove it.

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Old 25-01-2010, 05:39 PM   #40
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Quote:
A very vivid hallucination, probably only lasted a minute or so until her brain was unable to work anymore, but could of seemed longer to her.
I cant swallow that it was an hallucination.
Just my opinion. She said it as not but very real
and could describe specific details....

I believe we all have a spirit that leaves the body
when it dies. I reckon we use our bodies like
astronauts us a space suit !
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