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Old 03-09-2010, 07:07 PM   #21
he said it was brasso
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Originally Posted by rumpelstilzchen View Post
No.
I'm just pointing out a fact.
What with a question?
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Old 03-09-2010, 07:08 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by he said it was brasso View Post
Did they establish that the defendant was present?

If they can reach a verdict without the need for the defendant then why invite (sorry summons) him in the first place?
Because the defendant may wish to run a defence.
You never know a good defence may result in a not guilty.

Last edited by rumpelstilzchen; 03-09-2010 at 07:09 PM.
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Old 03-09-2010, 07:10 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by rumpelstilzchen View Post
Why?
The case can proceed in the defendant's absence.
If the court is unable to get their desired outcome with the man present, they have to resort to the underhand (unlawful?,illegal?) means that you describe.

How can you call that justice ?

If I can see it, why can't you?
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Old 03-09-2010, 07:11 PM   #24
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What with a question?
Yes.
To some it would be obvious.
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Old 03-09-2010, 07:11 PM   #25
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A recess is just the suspension of business for a short interval. so it cannot be said the Judge abandoned the court he made it expressly clear it was a recess. If however the judge didn't return after a short interval then by the conduct of the judge which creates an implied in fact contract that the court have abandon the case. The Freeman should certainly have honoured the recess and stayed a reasonable amount of time, afterall we are honourable and we want to help these people settle their disputes with us.

Therefore without knowing what happened after this we cannot really conclude anything.

Last edited by danster82; 03-09-2010 at 07:19 PM.
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Old 03-09-2010, 07:16 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by jimmi View Post
If the court is unable to get their desired outcome with the man present,
How did the court know that the man was present?
He did not identify himself.
Quote:
they have to resort to the underhand (unlawful?,illegal?) means that you describe.
Unlawful? Illegal? I don't think so.
Can you back that claim up?
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How can you call that justice ?
The defendant has ample opportunity to defend themself. If they choose not to the case will proceed without the defendant's evidence. What do you think will happen if a defendant offers no defence?

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If I can see it, why can't you?
I would ask exactly the same of you.

Last edited by rumpelstilzchen; 03-09-2010 at 07:16 PM.
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Old 03-09-2010, 07:21 PM   #27
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danster82 is correct. In the case I saw after the unidentified person at the court left. The court proceeded to enter a guilty verdict as the defendant never shoed up. I don't see whats so hard to understand about that. The reaction of bailiffs and court officials to being questioned is what I find disturbing. I actually had one come and sit right next to me in a empty gallery, because it was known that I came to court with the defendant. He asked me small talk kinds of questions but by his body language I could see he was ready for action, good thing I wasn't there for that kind of thing because he wished I was. I know pure speculation on my part but it was the honest feeling I got.
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Old 03-09-2010, 07:28 PM   #28
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Unlawful?, ilegal?

Those words are not claims, the squiggly bits after the letters are called question marks, they are to show that a question is being asked.

If you are an example of the calibre of person that 'defends' people in court then is it any wonder that we are looking elsewhere for justice ?
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Old 03-09-2010, 08:06 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by jimmi View Post
Unlawful?, ilegal?

Those words are not claims, the squiggly bits after the letters are called question marks, they are to show that a question is being asked.
Yes I realised that. That is why when I repeated both of those words you had written I also included the question marks. I was repeating your exact words, and then provided the answer.
I then asked if you could back your claim up (that it was "underhand").

Quote:
If you are an example of the calibre of person that 'defends' people in court then is it any wonder that we are looking elsewhere for justice ?
If the video is an example of the calibre of person who attempts a fotl defence, I would suggest the courts have nothing to worry about.
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Old 03-09-2010, 08:07 PM   #30
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Default case dismissed with cause and prejudice..

case dismissed with cause and prejudice..

A translation any one..
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Old 03-09-2010, 08:12 PM   #31
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case dismissed with cause and prejudice..

A translation any one..
Probably the defendant will receive some mail pretty soon.
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Old 03-09-2010, 08:14 PM   #32
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case dismissed with cause and prejudice..

A translation any one..
it was the 'sovereign' who dismissed the case..

there is NO law... WITHOUT a sovereign
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Old 03-09-2010, 08:15 PM   #33
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Probably the defendant will receive some mail pretty soon.
No not mail..
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Old 03-09-2010, 08:19 PM   #34
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No not mail..
I would imagine it was due to receiving mail that prompted the defendant to attend court the day the video was shot.
The next letter may contain worse news.
Perhaps rob will update us with the conclusion.
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Old 03-09-2010, 08:24 PM   #35
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it was the 'sovereign' who dismissed the case..

there is NO law... WITHOUT a sovereign
fair play ..I think the judge got off lightly then..shouting at a sovereign like that.
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Old 03-09-2010, 09:10 PM   #36
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That may be one of the lamest videos I've ever seen. And the posts defending it in this thread are some of the lamest posts I've seen.

First off, the bailiff's were asked to remove him, but then the judge began talking to the man again. A bailiff isn't going to remove someone that the judge is in the process of speaking to.

Secondly, no one raised their voices because they were scared this guy had figured out some trick, they were annoyed at his refusal to answer simple questions. I see FMOTL raise their voices with cops in videos all the time when the officers refuse to "accept" or don't understand the silly claims they are making, does that mean that the FMOTL is "scared" that their ploys aren't real? No, it's simple annoyance, nothing more.

Thirdly, the bailiff didn't "back off" when told. The FMOTL said back off, and one bailiff kinda half turned and took 1 step sort of away. The other bailiff didn't move. After a while, one walked away. When it becomes obvious that the judge is involved in continued discussion, why would that bailiff remain there and not return to their post? Especially when another bailiff is standing 4 ft away.

Fourthly, as much as FMOTL claim it, a "sovereign" cannot dismiss their own case. They not only aren't the "highest authority" as you claim, they actually have NO authority in court. Just because you invent some imaginary court procedure doesn't make it true. Could some other sovereign stand up and say, "As another sovereign and highest authority in this court I declare this individual guilty of all crimes"? Of course not. If a sovereign can't make a ruling, they can't dismiss a case. Simple reality of life.

It's a sad reality that people can look at this and not only call it a "win" but a "BIG WIN". There was no win. The court's time was wasted, the taxpayer's money was wasted, and in the end, the defendant wasted his time because he will likely be found guilty in absentia. If you're going to leave before the case is over, you might as well have not shown up.

As for earthicastar's claim I would have sat when told...I sure would have. I have this thing called "respect." I call my doctor "Doctor", I give up my seat on the bus/subway to the elderly or handicapped, and I call judges "your honour". Why? They've put in time and effort to get where they are, and I respect that. A doctor gave up many long nights busting their ass to learn to help people. The elderly have built the world that I live in and been through many hardships to get there. And judges have spent countless hours labouring over legal texts and pouring over court documents to rise to the top of their profession.

If one became a judge by making inane youtube videos filled with outrageous claims and pointless rhetoric, I wouldn't respect him. Luckily, that's not how judges get where they are. Perhaps if those people that claim they're treated poorly had a little respect for others they'd be treated a little bit more politely.
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No man is above the law and no man is below it: nor do we ask any man's permission when we ask him to obey it. -Theodore Roosevelt
Law, by definition, cannot obey the same rules as nature. -Albert Camus
The end of law is not to abolish or restrain, but to preserve and enlarge freedom. For in all the states of created beings capable of law, where there is no law, there is no freedom. -John Locke
Obedience of the law is demanded; not asked as a favor. -Theodore Roosevelt
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Old 03-09-2010, 09:10 PM   #37
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fair play ..I think the judge got off lightly then..shouting at a sovereign like that.
I think the "sovereign" got off lightly, not being completely ignored and held in contempt for refusing to obey the lawful authority of the court.
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No man is above the law and no man is below it: nor do we ask any man's permission when we ask him to obey it. -Theodore Roosevelt
Law, by definition, cannot obey the same rules as nature. -Albert Camus
The end of law is not to abolish or restrain, but to preserve and enlarge freedom. For in all the states of created beings capable of law, where there is no law, there is no freedom. -John Locke
Obedience of the law is demanded; not asked as a favor. -Theodore Roosevelt
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Old 03-09-2010, 09:11 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by earthicastar View Post
it was the 'sovereign' who dismissed the case..

there is NO law... WITHOUT a sovereign
Do you have proof of this?
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No man is above the law and no man is below it: nor do we ask any man's permission when we ask him to obey it. -Theodore Roosevelt
Law, by definition, cannot obey the same rules as nature. -Albert Camus
The end of law is not to abolish or restrain, but to preserve and enlarge freedom. For in all the states of created beings capable of law, where there is no law, there is no freedom. -John Locke
Obedience of the law is demanded; not asked as a favor. -Theodore Roosevelt
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Old 03-09-2010, 09:30 PM   #39
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I was waiting for a freeman to post this as some great victory. Figured it would be Rob. I'm sure their will be repercussions that won't be shown in any video or made mention of again. Look at Terry, videos all over youtube, then he just abandons them and doesn't comment anymore? Why, because he lost, got $7500 in files, tried to sue the chief of police, got his FMOTL small claims court thrown out, and his car seized. Of course the freeman never throw those facts around, only his video of him 'getting away with it'. LMAO.
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Old 03-09-2010, 09:45 PM   #40
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Figured it would be Rob.
To tell you the truth, I'm gobsmacked that rob would describe this episode as a "big win".
For somebody who claims to have spent many hours studying law to believe a recess to be a win is beyond belief.
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