Go Back   David Icke's Official Forums > Main Forums > Lawful Rebellion / Non Compliance / Sovereignty

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 30-07-2010, 03:43 PM   #41
britishnick
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,044
Likes: 0 (0 Posts)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by steven1 View Post
the fact that you seek permission from the magna carta to rebel seems a little ironic.


"... it has no basis in law..." "why do you use the law when you don't agree with it..." "...some other man-cow-dodo in an attempt to wind the wind-up handle up..."

Go on then, impress us with your ability to prove this alleged "fact" that I seek permission to rebel from the magna carta?

Much of what you spout seems to have no basis in what actually happens. entertaining non the less. Anyone heard of the Asky dance? That too is entertaining.
__________________
You all owe me a breathing tax - please pay up: http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=103303
freemanpete: "Freedom can't be spoon fed."
vladmir "Being a Freeman [for me] dosent mean one supports anarchy or no government, but a legitimate and limited form of Lawful government is actually what freemen are seeking, not a corporate dictatorship that is currently hijacked into place."
britishnick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-07-2010, 03:49 PM   #42
steven1
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,265
Likes: 0 (0 Posts)
Default

I was generalising britnick, I didn't mean you in particular.
I see how it came out that way it wasn't my intention.
I should have said lawful rebellion advocates believe...

mistaken*
steven1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-07-2010, 03:55 PM   #43
britishnick
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,044
Likes: 0 (0 Posts)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by steven1 View Post
I was generalising britnick, I didn't mean you in particular.
I see how it came out that way it wasn't my intention.
I should have said lawful rebellion advocates believe...

mistaken*
Ah, I see. Please accept my most humble apple o gee's.

I mistakenly thought when you said something was a fact, that it was a fact, silly ole me! but it if Friday after all.
__________________
You all owe me a breathing tax - please pay up: http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=103303
freemanpete: "Freedom can't be spoon fed."
vladmir "Being a Freeman [for me] dosent mean one supports anarchy or no government, but a legitimate and limited form of Lawful government is actually what freemen are seeking, not a corporate dictatorship that is currently hijacked into place."
britishnick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-07-2010, 04:09 PM   #44
steven1
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,265
Likes: 0 (0 Posts)
Default

Oh it is a fact that people who believe in lawful rebellion seek permission from the Magna Carta to rebel, that's why they quote it.
That wasn't wrong at all.

john harris*
steven1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-07-2010, 04:37 PM   #45
steven1
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,265
Likes: 0 (0 Posts)
Default

micklemus wrote
Quote:
Since neither Rob nor anyone has rebutted what I was driving at, I will maintain my own point of view, which is -

a) Rob's claim to have removed consent absolutely does not stack up with the evidence; and most importantly in the context of this thread
b) the individual will not be sovereign in Freeman Land (my own term of art, remember) contrary to the hype; and
c) the individual is not sovereign in current society.

I hope you'll engage in adult discussion again soon, Rob, and not spend your time only being courteous to those who never question anything you say. I hope also at some point you will address these issues and the resultant gaping hole in your theories.
back on topic (sorry mike)
steven1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-07-2010, 05:15 PM   #46
micklemus
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Under your skin
Posts: 3,894
Likes: 0 (0 Posts)
Default

No worries, no harm done [if you pardon the very bad 'in' pun]
micklemus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-07-2010, 12:48 PM   #47
steven1
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,265
Likes: 0 (0 Posts)
Default

http://forum.worldfreemansociety.org...hp?f=43&t=6583
Quote:
a) A freemans claim to have removed consent absolutely does not stack up with the evidence.
b) the individual will not be sovereign in a freeman society
c) the individual is not sovereign in current society.

until these statements can be successfully rebutted the freeman movement has no value

civ
See how long that lasts

naughtyboy*
steven1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-07-2010, 12:53 PM   #48
steven1
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,265
Likes: 0 (0 Posts)
Default

Wow
Banned already and robs not watching
Dont make me laugh.

THAT MUST BE A RECORD

that just proves how scared he is to debate his point and protect his minions from any outside influence.
David Koresh had nothing on Rob.
ousted*

Last edited by steven1; 31-07-2010 at 12:55 PM.
steven1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-07-2010, 02:36 PM   #49
micklemus
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Under your skin
Posts: 3,894
Likes: 0 (0 Posts)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by steven1 View Post
Wow
Banned already and robs not watching
Dont make me laugh.

THAT MUST BE A RECORD

that just proves how scared he is to debate his point and protect his minions from any outside influence.
David Koresh had nothing on Rob.
ousted*
Now that is truly something. Banned for raising an issue that goes to the core of this subject matter AND the thread is removed.

Freeman Land, sorry Valley - the place where you are free to agree.

Anyway, at least here we still have the freedom to discuss this issue, which includes Rob having the opportunity to set the record straight and explain how this hole in freeman theory is easily filled in.

Perhaps the answer is that if you ignore it, it doesn't exist. It isn't a hole after all. Kinda like hiding behind the sofa as a child during the scary bits on Dr Who.

Last edited by micklemus; 31-07-2010 at 02:37 PM.
micklemus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-07-2010, 02:46 PM   #50
rumpelstilzchen
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: the End of The Forest where the fox and the hare bid each other goodnight
Posts: 6,221
Likes: 0 (0 Posts)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by micklemus View Post
Anyway, at least here we still have the freedom to discuss this issue, which includes Rob having the opportunity to set the record straight and explain how this hole in freeman theory is easily filled in.
Isn't it a shame that those that appear to be the most vociferous proponents of the freeman theory are avoiding this thread like the plague.

Quote:
Perhaps the answer is that if you ignore it, it doesn't exist. It isn't a hole after all. Kinda like hiding behind the sofa as a child during the scary bits on Dr Who.
You mean stick your fingers in your ears and sing "La la la"?
rumpelstilzchen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-07-2010, 02:49 PM   #51
micklemus
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Under your skin
Posts: 3,894
Likes: 0 (0 Posts)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rumpelstilzchen View Post
Isn't it a shame that those that appear to be the most vociferous proponents of the freeman theory are avoiding this thread like the plague.



You mean stick your fingers in your ears and sing "La la la"?
Yes and yes!

Incredible isn't it that such an important issue has been overlooked?
micklemus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-07-2010, 02:53 PM   #52
rumpelstilzchen
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: the End of The Forest where the fox and the hare bid each other goodnight
Posts: 6,221
Likes: 0 (0 Posts)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by micklemus View Post

Incredible isn't it that such an important issue has been overlooked?
Oh, I don't for one minute imagine that it has been overlooked. However I would wager that the same thing could not be said for "brushed under the carpet".
rumpelstilzchen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-07-2010, 04:14 PM   #53
rob menard
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,863
Likes: 0 (0 Posts)
Default

Quote:
a) A freemans claim to have removed consent absolutely does not stack up with the evidence.
b) the individual will not be sovereign in a freeman society
c) the individual is not sovereign in current society.

until these statements can be successfully rebutted the freeman movement has no value
a)
This is your opinion, and not a fact. I have seen what you use for evidence. The fact that someone does not want to waste their time arguing with you is to you evidence of them being incapable of discussion. This first point is pure opinion, and you are incapable of distinguishing your opinion from fact. Therefore I rebut it by stating y opinion to the contrary. Since yours is only opinion, all I need to do to rebut is state mine. A Freeman’s claim to have removed consent absolutely does stack up with the evidence. See how easy that was, cause you do not know the difference between your own opinion and proven fact?

b)
Opinion and conjecture. Again, this is not fact, as it has yet to happen. Did you wish to argue this point? To what end except waste time?

c)
Many are not sovereign now, some are. Point is unless you can name your society, you are not a member of one. That is the big truth you all ignore. Whisper the legal name of the society you are a member of, and then show me proof of your membership. None of you can do that? Wow... must be because none of you are actually members of any legally existing society! You sure do all act like you are though....


There all successfully rebutted, with opinions, as that is all they were to begin with. Asky likes to masquerade his opinions as fact, then presenting that strawman argument will ask you to dance the asky dance with him, and argue against his opinions like they are fact.

As for removal of his clearly vexatious post, the intent with his post was not to discuss but to start an argument, and he was banned before for purposely disruptive and immature behavior. On our forum, we encourage intelligent, mature exchange of ideas, and asky/jb/steven is incapable of that, and merely seeks to derail and insult and disparage and denigrate.

But see this is how you will look at one little aspect (he posted something, it was removed, and he was banned) and think it proves something about me, or how scared I am about debating. Debating is a waste of time, and none of you Weetabix Crew want to discuss, or learn. He was banned long ago, and when he returned, we recognized his purposely vexatious and disruptive spirit and said “Hey look who’s back! Lets get rid of him before he disrupts and derails discussions, as he always does, cause he can never discuss.”

He is perfectly free to start his own forum, and post all he wants there. I have no obligation to let him and his desire to harm into my home, forum or head. Hey wait a minute...

Hey asky, did you not start your own forum? You were so proud of it, why are you here? Did no one come to play with you? Is that why you are back? Being incapable of creation, you can only seek to destroy that which others are trying to make. Am I right? If not, why are you and your crew not discussing all these things over there? It is like atheists who decide to hold a discussion on why God does not exist, in a church full of people holding mass. What is wrong with the forum you made? Why do you have to come here and push the buttons and try to insult those who do not wish to communicate with you, because of your continual immature and childish antics, and because they simply think you have a vexatious spirit intent on harming your fellow man? You have a poison type of spirit, it is like dealing with someone who has horrendous breath, and who you do not wish to speak with them.

The reason your forum dies out, is because of the intent behind it. It was mean spirited and sought to harm, and people can sense that.

Do you think us recognizing your actions as a waste of time means you won the argument? Fine. Believe that. Believe the party is over. Believe what ever you want, as you clearly need to believe in a higher manmade authority for you to not feel scared of the Freeman Boogieman.

So you know your mask has slipped once again and we can all see the old familiar asky dance.

So you spend your day sitting there telling the world I can't do what I am actually in the process of doing.

Personally, looking at your actions, your constant cry for attention, inability to distinguish between your own opinion and actual fact, inability to use logic or reason, your vengeful attitude expressed as happiness I would be punished for sharing ideas you dio not hold as truth, your desire to obstruct adults as they discuss, your belief that our refusal to jump through your hoops and dance the asky dance means we are not free, you complete obsession with me personally, the fact that you get banned from so many forums and never accept any responsibility for the actions that get you banned, your lack of any one identity and use of so many names, all these things stack up to someone with a severe case of personality disorder.

You ever think that may be why people put you on ignore, and then you get banned? Maybe it is due to your personality and not any topic under discussion?

Of course that would require you to accept responsibility, for your own actions, and one of the signs of your disorder is an inability to see fault in yourself assigning to others weaknesses and claiming they simply can't handle your brilliance, intellect, superiority.

So I wish you well, I will be busy for the next few weeks, hiring peace officers, building Freeman Valley BETA site, and helping people in court too! You know, all those things you insist I cannot do.

So you spend your time thinking that because I am not here wasting time on you, that I am not using my time wisely at all.

Seriously asky/steve/jb, you need professional help. Unfortunately, I simply see you as a vexatious, small minded, insecure and ill willed loser, and I have no more time for you.

Have a great day!
rob menard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-07-2010, 04:16 PM   #54
rumpelstilzchen
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: the End of The Forest where the fox and the hare bid each other goodnight
Posts: 6,221
Likes: 0 (0 Posts)
Default

Why was the post removed from the WFS forum, rob?
rumpelstilzchen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-07-2010, 04:21 PM   #55
lord bob haulk
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 556
Likes: 0 (0 Posts)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rob menard View Post
a)
This is your opinion, and not a fact. I have seen what you use for evidence. The fact that someone does not want to waste their time arguing with you is to you evidence of them being incapable of discussion. This first point is pure opinion, and you are incapable of distinguishing your opinion from fact. Therefore I rebut it by stating y opinion to the contrary. Since yours is only opinion, all I need to do to rebut is state mine. A Freeman’s claim to have removed consent absolutely does stack up with the evidence. See how easy that was, cause you do not know the difference between your own opinion and proven fact?

b)
Opinion and conjecture. Again, this is not fact, as it has yet to happen. Did you wish to argue this point? To what end except waste time?

c)
Many are not sovereign now, some are. Point is unless you can name your society, you are not a member of one. That is the big truth you all ignore. Whisper the legal name of the society you are a member of, and then show me proof of your membership. None of you can do that? Wow... must be because none of you are actually members of any legally existing society! You sure do all act like you are though....


There all successfully rebutted, with opinions, as that is all they were to begin with. Asky likes to masquerade his opinions as fact, then presenting that strawman argument will ask you to dance the asky dance with him, and argue against his opinions like they are fact.

As for removal of his clearly vexatious post, the intent with his post was not to discuss but to start an argument, and he was banned before for purposely disruptive and immature behavior. On our forum, we encourage intelligent, mature exchange of ideas, and asky/jb/steven is incapable of that, and merely seeks to derail and insult and disparage and denigrate.

But see this is how you will look at one little aspect (he posted something, it was removed, and he was banned) and think it proves something about me, or how scared I am about debating. Debating is a waste of time, and none of you Weetabix Crew want to discuss, or learn. He was banned long ago, and when he returned, we recognized his purposely vexatious and disruptive spirit and said “Hey look who’s back! Lets get rid of him before he disrupts and derails discussions, as he always does, cause he can never discuss.”

He is perfectly free to start his own forum, and post all he wants there. I have no obligation to let him and his desire to harm into my home, forum or head. Hey wait a minute...

Hey asky, did you not start your own forum? You were so proud of it, why are you here? Did no one come to play with you? Is that why you are back? Being incapable of creation, you can only seek to destroy that which others are trying to make. Am I right? If not, why are you and your crew not discussing all these things over there? It is like atheists who decide to hold a discussion on why God does not exist, in a church full of people holding mass. What is wrong with the forum you made? Why do you have to come here and push the buttons and try to insult those who do not wish to communicate with you, because of your continual immature and childish antics, and because they simply think you have a vexatious spirit intent on harming your fellow man? You have a poison type of spirit, it is like dealing with someone who has horrendous breath, and who you do not wish to speak with them.

The reason your forum dies out, is because of the intent behind it. It was mean spirited and sought to harm, and people can sense that.

Do you think us recognizing your actions as a waste of time means you won the argument? Fine. Believe that. Believe the party is over. Believe what ever you want, as you clearly need to believe in a higher manmade authority for you to not feel scared of the Freeman Boogieman.

So you know your mask has slipped once again and we can all see the old familiar asky dance.

So you spend your day sitting there telling the world I can't do what I am actually in the process of doing.

Personally, looking at your actions, your constant cry for attention, inability to distinguish between your own opinion and actual fact, inability to use logic or reason, your vengeful attitude expressed as happiness I would be punished for sharing ideas you dio not hold as truth, your desire to obstruct adults as they discuss, your belief that our refusal to jump through your hoops and dance the asky dance means we are not free, you complete obsession with me personally, the fact that you get banned from so many forums and never accept any responsibility for the actions that get you banned, your lack of any one identity and use of so many names, all these things stack up to someone with a severe case of personality disorder.

You ever think that may be why people put you on ignore, and then you get banned? Maybe it is due to your personality and not any topic under discussion?

Of course that would require you to accept responsibility, for your own actions, and one of the signs of your disorder is an inability to see fault in yourself assigning to others weaknesses and claiming they simply can't handle your brilliance, intellect, superiority.

So I wish you well, I will be busy for the next few weeks, hiring peace officers, building Freeman Valley BETA site, and helping people in court too! You know, all those things you insist I cannot do.

So you spend your time thinking that because I am not here wasting time on you, that I am not using my time wisely at all.

Seriously asky/steve/jb, you need professional help. Unfortunately, I simply see you as a vexatious, small minded, insecure and ill willed loser, and I have no more time for you.

Have a great day!
so you won't be here for a couple of weeks, off to scout camp then? have a nice holiday
lord bob haulk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-07-2010, 04:33 PM   #56
steven1
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,265
Likes: 0 (0 Posts)
Default

rob wrote
Quote:
a)
This is your opinion, and not a fact. I have seen what you use for evidence. The fact that someone does not want to waste their time arguing with you is to you evidence of them being incapable of discussion. This first point is pure opinion, and you are incapable of distinguishing your opinion from fact. Therefore I rebut it by stating y opinion to the contrary. Since yours is only opinion, all I need to do to rebut is state mine. A Freeman’s claim to have removed consent absolutely does stack up with the evidence. See how easy that was, cause you do not know the difference between your own opinion and proven fact?
Rob, you cannot avoid statute law and you know it, you even abide by it and use it when it suits.
Quote:
b)
Opinion and conjecture. Again, this is not fact, as it has yet to happen. Did you wish to argue this point? To what end except waste time?
again you avoid the issue with diversion and idiocy, you cannot have sovereign in a commune for it to work, its a fact.
Quote:
c)
Many are not sovereign now, some are. Point is unless you can name your society, you are not a member of one. That is the big truth you all ignore. Whisper the legal name of the society you are a member of, and then show me proof of your membership. None of you can do that? Wow... must be because none of you are actually members of any legally existing society! You sure do all act like you are though....
Again the same regurgitated bull**it answers without any substance.

face it Rob, its all over, even the fat lady is hoarse.

Why don't you ask your members on WFS what they think of the post by submitting it yourself and asking the question.

I cant get involved then can I?

Quote:
So I wish you well, I will be busy for the next few weeks, hiring peace officers, building Freeman Valley BETA site, and helping people in court too! You know, all those things you insist I cannot do.
Keep looking over your shoulder for the media and the police (the real ones)

runaway bride*
steven1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-07-2010, 04:33 PM   #57
rumpelstilzchen
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: the End of The Forest where the fox and the hare bid each other goodnight
Posts: 6,221
Likes: 0 (0 Posts)
Default

Anyway, rob as you are here why don't you address the points made by micklemus in the OP?

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'd like to get back on subject with this issue, which was touched on in another thread now moved to the Have a Laugh section (Atrue sovereign citizen) and moderated.

In that thread Rob Menard suggested that a point that I have been trying to bottom out should be ignored because I used the term "Freeman Land" which is my own term of art -


Quote:
made up land = freeman land*

* a STRAWMAN FALLACY no such place exist. The one who refers to it, made it up and now asks we defend it. Please ignore it, as it is nonsense

I replied as follows (and forgive the moderate sarcasm but I trust it is understood within the context of Rob's post) -


Quote:
Blimey, and there was I thinking I was on Rob's ever growing iggie list. Evidently not. Is it the third time I've been permitted to hold court? Not sure as I've lost count. Anyway, I'll respond since it concerns me and my response is relevant to this thread.

Those that care to check for themselves (and I am so relieved to note that people are checking things for themselves) would have noted that I referred to Freeman Land as my own term of art. Apparently Rob doesn't allow that. Rob, since you have no power over me, I wish to inform you that I will call things what I like, thank you.

Those that care to check for themselves would have also noticed that I used that term as a shorthand way of describing the place that Rob said he is creating, or will endeavour to create. I don't care what Rob or others call it because it doesn't matter. Such ridiculous points are an unnecessary diversion.

However, the diversion tactic is soon understood when you look at what Rob is trying to divert attention from. The discussion in question related to consent, freeman laws and statutes. When the penny dropped with Rob as to what I was driving at he got the arse with me and would not provide a direct answer. Still has the arse now it seems. I hope in time you'll get over it Rob.

Since neither Rob nor anyone has rebutted what I was driving at, I will maintain my own point of view, which is -

a) Rob's claim to have removed consent absolutely does not stack up with the evidence; and most importantly in the context of this thread
b) the individual will not be sovereign in Freeman Land (my own term of art, remember) contrary to the hype; and
c) the individual is not sovereign in current society.

I hope you'll engage in adult discussion again soon, Rob, and not spend your time only being courteous to those who never question anything you say. I hope also at some point you will address these issues and the resultant gaping hole in your theories.

Those posts have been removed now to keep the balance of the thread in the context of "Have a Laugh" but they are incredibly relevant to this sub-forum.

As far as points (a) to (c) above are concerned can anyone enlighten me as to how freemen address this massive hole in FOTL theory?

Last edited by rumpelstilzchen; 31-07-2010 at 04:35 PM.
rumpelstilzchen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-07-2010, 04:48 PM   #58
micklemus
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Under your skin
Posts: 3,894
Likes: 0 (0 Posts)
Default

Nice one Rob. So, adopting the numbering:-


(a) It's just my opinion is it? Parliamentary sovereignty is just my opinion? I don't need to say more, the law is crystal clear. The onus is on you to demonstrate that consent has been removed, not on me to prove a negative. The onus remains on you now.

(b) I don't wish to argue anything. I want you to finally explain how your laws will work if the individual is sovereign. If, as I am certain, the individual will not be sovereign in Freeman Land/Valley, I would very much like you to confirm that to people.

(c) Evading again, I see. I refer you to (a) above. I don't need to prove a negative; the law is clear. It explains why freeman consent theory has no basis and doubtlessly explains why there is not one case of any freeman proving immunity to any statute. The definition of society is irrelevant; this is about the law, the same law that you need to use to apply your theories about withdrawing consent to statute. Please do show me which individuals are sovereign in their society and how they achieved it. Please do also show me proof of their consent to statute having been removed, thus rendering them immune.

I am now totally confident, beyond any doubt whatsoever that you can't prove it and this is undoubtedly why you evade all the time. Why can't you just openly admit to people that freeman consent theory is bullshit and you are a barrack room lawyer?

Last edited by micklemus; 31-07-2010 at 04:52 PM.
micklemus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-07-2010, 05:12 PM   #59
rumpelstilzchen
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: the End of The Forest where the fox and the hare bid each other goodnight
Posts: 6,221
Likes: 0 (0 Posts)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by micklemus View Post

I am now totally confident, beyond any doubt whatsoever that you can't prove it and this is undoubtedly why you evade all the time. Why can't you just openly admit to people that freeman consent theory is bullshit and you are a barrack room lawyer?
I think you've pitched that about right, micklemus.
rumpelstilzchen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-07-2010, 10:24 PM   #60
merlincove
Premier Subscribers
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 28,909
Likes: 425 (247 Posts)
Default

Can members please refer to the OP and subsequent posts relating to such and further post accounts in regard to other aspects in their relevant threads.

Thanks
merlincove is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 08:37 AM.


Shoutbox provided by vBShout (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.