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Old 30-12-2009, 03:08 PM   #601
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The second drawing is further elaboration.



I would recommend winding it with the “Twistite”
triple wire, the one Jamie Buturff used for one of his newer coils. Or even better.. twisting the twistite wire even more to reach the “mobius coil” style wire:

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Old 30-12-2009, 03:17 PM   #602
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This is a different thing, but very intresting indeed.
Pause it at 0:16 and pay attention to the 2d shape.
Two circles intersecting in the middle with vortex motion in the center.. There is also the golden ratio element in it and fractal element as well. See the smaller eye in the middle turned in 90 degrees. That’s an awesome 3d presentation of the “all seeing eye” vortex symbology I think.

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Old 30-12-2009, 08:20 PM   #603
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Question chromatic grid torus

Hi guys, I just wanted to share with you what I have been looking at over the last few weeks. I wanted to go back over a few points of interest and the various grids which Rodin has suggested. This also links in to the 3-4-5 Pythagorean Triple.

I was looking at skywalker9's graphic posted here earlier and wanted to understand it better.

Here is what I ended up with:



I took a harmonic layout of the chromatic scale based on a hexagonal grid like this and ended up with Mane's 6x4=24 fibonacci loop - like he first showed here.

The grid produced has a repeating unit of 12x24=288 hexagons and could thus be rolled up into another toroid - though I don't think Rodin uses the same numbering for his hexagonal grid.

The Pythagorean 3-4-5 chord triples can also be seen as 6 triples surrounding the particular "key" of the chord. The key can then be changed following the hexagonal axes in the manner shown: 5th, 4th, major/minor 3rd, major/minor 6th.

Also, I noticed an interesting observation (unless this has been covered) that the two control dials (red and blue) when superimposed provide (like I think skywalker9 was getting at) a "positive" and a "negative" cycle. For the positive cycle (white numbers) the red dial has numbers: 1, 2, 3, 7, 8, 9 and the blue dial has numbers: 4, 5, 6. Then the negative cycle (black numbers) goes CCW starting with the blue dial: 1, 2, 6, 7, 8, 9 and the red dial: 3, 4, 5. Like I say, it might be obvious but I thought that was interesting.

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 (CW)
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 (CCW)

Anyway, here's some guy on explaining and playing the hexagonal keyboard.

For more information about scales and different tuning and such I found an excellent overview here.

I also got hold of a little book about called "Harmonograph: A Visual Guide to the Mathematics of Music" by Anthony Ashton, which also details the chromatic hexagonal grid.

sadukan.

PS I think we have now decoded the hexagonal floortiles of the VR lab in Lawnmower Man. The dual torus animation on the monitors has also been covered. All that remains is the "Kyron Chip" - I'm working on it.

PPS Here's a Harmonograph applet for you to play around with.

"over it is 19"[74:30]
(DiYu - 18 Levels of Hell)
Philip LeMarchand


Last edited by sadukan; 31-12-2009 at 04:54 PM. Reason: minor correction and additional comment
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Old 30-12-2009, 09:11 PM   #604
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this goes out to all the pyramids that remain capless

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Old 31-12-2009, 03:09 AM   #605
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Nice work Sadukan.

I thought this was interesting....... instead of adding two numbers together to make the fibonacci sequence add three numbers starting with 9, 1, 1 ....

9 9 9
1 4 7
1 4 7
2 8 5
4 7 1
7 1 4
4 7 1
6 6 6
8 5 2
9 9 9
5 2 8
4 7 1
9 9 9


9 9 9
8 5 2
8 5 2
7 1 4
5 2 8
2 8 5
5 2 8
3 3 3
1 4 7
9 9 9
4 7 1
5 2 8
9 9 9



I don't know what the significance is just yet but I thought it was apt that it is adding 3 numbers which is what this math always uses, 3 is always the smallest quanta.
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Old 31-12-2009, 08:05 AM   #606
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speaking of phi sequence, these number relationships are beautiful:

9,1,1,2,3,5,8,4,3,7,1,8,9,8,8,7,6,4,1,5,6,2,8,1,
9,2,2,4,6,1,7,8,6,5,2,7,9,7,7,5,3,8,2,1,3,4,7,2,
9,3,3,6,9,6,6,3,9,3,3,6,9,6,6,3,9,3,3,6,9,6,6,3,
9,4,4,8,3,2,5,7,3,1,4,5,9,5,5,1,6,7,4,2,6,8,5,4,
9,5,5,1,6,7,4,2,6,8,5,4,9,4,4,8,3,2,5,7,3,1,4,5,
9,6,6,3,9,3,3,6,9,6,6,3,9,3,3,6,9,6,6,3,9,3,3,6,
9,7,7,5,3,8,2,1,3,4,7,2,9,2,2,4,6,1,7,8,6,5,2,7,
9,8,8,7,6,4,1,5,6,2,8,1,9,1,1,2,3,5,8,4,3,7,1,8,
9,9,9,9,9,9,9,9,9,9,9,9,9,9,9,9,9,9,9,9,9,9,9,9,

I figured whenever 9 appears in an arbitrary sequence of numbers, a set of 24 numbers repeats, with 9 possible sequences of 24; 12 mirroring itself, with relationships of 9,9; 1,8; 7,2; 4,5.
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Old 31-12-2009, 10:27 AM   #607
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Nice one like always Sadukan. It's a pleasure to look at your detailed graphs and the thought that you've put to them. Cheers for everyone elses ideas as well. This is a great thread

Here's a few of my own thoughts.

http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/153/strands.gif

It seems that everything runs in three strands. Odd (157) / Even (248) and their balance. Also there will be the respective 147 258 bonds.

1+5+7=13 (cubeocta?) 2+4+8=14 (startetra?)

3 4 5 6 are in the middle, which can be found in 3-4-5 triangle (6 being the area of such a triangle, or base of two combined triangles).

You can fit 12 3/4 rectangles in a perfect square. Also if you divide these rectangles to 3-4-5 triangles you have 24 triangles in a square

I think we're heading in the right direction.. let's keep it flowing.
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Old 31-12-2009, 02:44 PM   #608
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mane View Post
speaking of phi sequence, these number relationships are beautiful:

9,1,1,2,3,5,8,4,3,7,1,8,9,8,8,7,6,4,1,5,6,2,8,1,
9,2,2,4,6,1,7,8,6,5,2,7,9,7,7,5,3,8,2,1,3,4,7,2,
9,3,3,6,9,6,6,3,9,3,3,6,9,6,6,3,9,3,3,6,9,6,6,3,
9,4,4,8,3,2,5,7,3,1,4,5,9,5,5,1,6,7,4,2,6,8,5,4,
9,5,5,1,6,7,4,2,6,8,5,4,9,4,4,8,3,2,5,7,3,1,4,5,
9,6,6,3,9,3,3,6,9,6,6,3,9,3,3,6,9,6,6,3,9,3,3,6,
9,7,7,5,3,8,2,1,3,4,7,2,9,2,2,4,6,1,7,8,6,5,2,7,
9,8,8,7,6,4,1,5,6,2,8,1,9,1,1,2,3,5,8,4,3,7,1,8,
9,9,9,9,9,9,9,9,9,9,9,9,9,9,9,9,9,9,9,9,9,9,9,9,

I figured whenever 9 appears in an arbitrary sequence of numbers, a set of 24 numbers repeats, with 9 possible sequences of 24; 12 mirroring itself, with relationships of 9,9; 1,8; 7,2; 4,5.
Hi Mane, new here but not to this subject.
I recognize a few names here already, hi guys

Thought i would add this picture as i also re-discovered this pattern and have found a way of dichephering this picture i made, representing the mirrored binary triplets etc.

We find it contains doubling circuits that ratchet and form a caduseus spiral.
Here are the start points of the cycles contained in our 24 fibs.
http://i402.photobucket.com/albums/p...hostphase1.jpg

Heres a full pic with all number introduced.
You'll see the beauty in it.
http://i402.photobucket.com/albums/p...mod9vortex.jpg

Cool, ill drop back in to elaborate on the dichepering side of things.
Apologies as i have not read any of these mammoth threads yet, got here via picture searching in google images, but plan to catch up when time permits.

Good luck

Happy nu year David Ickers!

lburton
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Old 31-12-2009, 10:04 PM   #609
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I'm sorry that I don't have time to make any more detailed explanations, I hope you can find some ideas/inspiration from these pictures.. Anyway this completes my studies for this year. Number 21 will be my number for the year 2010.

3 forces of nature, 7 wise elders ruling the council. From the book Thiaoouba Prophecy.

PS. Each of us will ultimately search for our own truth and make our own reality. But in the end we are not alone, we all come from the same source.

Happy new year 2010


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Old 02-01-2010, 08:02 PM   #610
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sadukan View Post
Hi guys, I just wanted to share with you what I have been looking at over the last few weeks. I wanted to go back over a few points of interest and the various grids which Rodin has suggested. This also links in to the 3-4-5 Pythagorean Triple.

I was looking at skywalker9's graphic posted here earlier and wanted to understand it better.

Here is what I ended up with:



I took a harmonic layout of the chromatic scale based on a hexagonal grid like this and ended up with Mane's 6x4=24 fibonacci loop - like he first showed here.

The grid produced has a repeating unit of 12x24=288 hexagons and could thus be rolled up into another toroid - though I don't think Rodin uses the same numbering for his hexagonal grid.

The Pythagorean 3-4-5 chord triples can also be seen as 6 triples surrounding the particular "key" of the chord. The key can then be changed following the hexagonal axes in the manner shown: 5th, 4th, major/minor 3rd, major/minor 6th.

Also, I noticed an interesting observation (unless this has been covered) that the two control dials (red and blue) when superimposed provide (like I think skywalker9 was getting at) a "positive" and a "negative" cycle. For the positive cycle (white numbers) the red dial has numbers: 1, 2, 3, 7, 8, 9 and the blue dial has numbers: 4, 5, 6. Then the negative cycle (black numbers) goes CCW starting with the blue dial: 1, 2, 6, 7, 8, 9 and the red dial: 3, 4, 5. Like I say, it might be obvious but I thought that was interesting.

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 (CW)
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 (CCW)

Anyway, here's some guy on youtube explaining and playing the hexagonal keyboard.

For more information about scales and different tuning and such I found an excellent overview here.

I also got hold of a little book about harmonics called "Harmonograph: A Visual Guide to the Mathematics of Music" by Anthony Ashton, which also details the chromatic hexagonal grid.

sadukan.

PS I think we have now decoded the hexagonal floortiles of the VR lab in Lawnmower Man. The dual torus animation on the monitors has also been covered. All that remains is the "Kyron Chip" - I'm working on it.

PPS Here's a Harmonograph applet for you to play around with.

"over it is 19"[74:30]
(DiYu - 18 Levels of Hell)
Philip LeMarchand

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I don't really understand it either Sadukan. I just saw that the reduced fibonacci sequence repeats itself in a positive and negative pattern, that fits the repeating chromatic scale that runs from DO to DO.

I am reading this book at the moment that is fully intense.


http://interferencetheory.com

So far it turns out most tuning systems we have today avoid the 'Tritone'. And this 'Tritone' avoidance was done by the Roman Catholic Church with its anti-harmonic influence to wash out all Hermetism, Pythagoreanism, Paganism and other full on ancient groups of philosophers that basically show that anyone can become enlightened without the need of a church, but by studying things like the harmonics of the world. This 'Tritone' avoidance has been very succesful, because still today it is barely discussed even when scientists are studying harmonics and acoustics in physics.

The guy briefly discusses in the book how the Solfeggio Frequencies do use Pythagorean tuning, but the Solfeggio tones have totally avoided the Tritone. And this Tritone apparently balances the Positive and Negative in the octave. Apparently Pythagorus was using the Tritone to unite music with the Pentagram by fixing up the slight variation the Fibonnaci sequence spiral has in regard to perfect Phi.

I have no idea what it all means. Just started looking into what this Tritone can do, and why it has been so desperately kept from the human race over history? Maybe understanding it can help link music to the Rodin Maths better, because then we might have a real tuning system that hasn't been corrupted?

Like maybe there is a better way to divide the Octave, than with the chromatic scale method that has been so popular and crossed the world over the past 400yrs.

The book sort of says something like Pythagorus used 2 tetrachords, a positive and negative, either side of a Tritone. And that he was linking it all to Platonic geometry, Phi and especially the Pentagram.

Anyway, nice diagrams.

Last edited by skywalker9; 02-01-2010 at 08:31 PM.
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Old 02-01-2010, 10:16 PM   #611
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Speaking of books I just came across this very cool book publisher Called Wodden Books from a boing boing article

There is one called Harmonograph, a visual guide to the music of math.

http://www.woodenbooks.com/browse/index.php

I also found this interesting jav app spirograph, useful for quickly showing wraps and toroid differences.
http://wordsmith.org/anu/java/spirograph.html
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Old 03-01-2010, 05:35 PM   #612
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a visual guide to the mathematics of music*

the book is quite interesting, you can read from it online.
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Old 03-01-2010, 07:43 PM   #613
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By looking at nature, the fibonacci sequence recurring in 12's, color spectrums and houses of the zodiac. Dividing an Octave by 12 into the chromatic scale looks fine. I think what has gone wrong is the the tuning of what is classed as a C or a C# etc. Most modern tuning is not harmonically aligned with nature. Keyboards can be retuned to pythagorean tuning easy enough.

What people are taught to play, the chords, the tensions, the ratios is what has be systemized to avoid the 'Tritone' by the church, for some reason? I can only think that it makes them nervous about something. Whether the 'Tritone' is a good thing or a bad thing, I don't know. But if they were so power hungry, so keen to control, why would they fear the 'Tritone' and call it stuff like the devils trident.

In Pagan fairytales Fauns like Pan used to play doubled ended flutes that could influence the consciousness of the surrounding listeners to image the pictures and emotions of a story better.

Sidetrack image...

(12,000yr old design of double chambered 'Ocarina' flute important to Mesoamerican and chinese history. It almost has Phi proportions and an alien looking design. Some old musical instruments are very different because I think they had a more advanced understanding of harmonics.)

Maybe that was old knowledge of Tritones used properly? Fairytales are fairytales, but if we can conceive it we can achieve it, or we have once known it thousands of years before. Is it this kind of influence of harmonics over nature/matter and consciousness that the church probably used to condemn as the work of the devil because maybe they would rather us feel like ineffectual beings that were only empowered by going to their services and donating money or something?

(I don't believe for a second the words of the masters are not totally beneficial to our conduct, but I will question the way that organizations push and filter the info to their tastes. But all things happen for a good reason on a bigger scale in a harmonic world, bad tunes will always decay out of the tune of life eventually. We are all learning, some have to burn before they learn how to play with fire.)

I just dont know ay, its all up in the air. But its totally interesting. And a bit depressing to think that an organization might have been limiting human consciousness from developing in some other harmonic way. I just wish I understood music ratios better to really research the matter.

What is clear is the link with geometry and music in Cymatics, with acoustics and mathematics, with quantum physics and the wave/particle duality, with the work of Nassim Haramein, and the link with fibonacci sequence and chromatic scale, vibrations and crop circles, mantras and mandalas and most importantly the link with Phi and Rodin maths that could piece it all together into potential awesomeness in our awareness of the world.

'The world is a symphony, to play, or to be played'

Last edited by skywalker9; 03-01-2010 at 08:43 PM. Reason: My shocking english skills
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Old 03-01-2010, 09:05 PM   #614
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Exclamation Pythagorean Lambdoma

That's the book I have. I got a few of the others too. Anyway, I thought I would introduce another element into the discussion with the "Lambdoma".

This is closely linked to the of Pythagoras.
We can now start to integrate MythMath's LoShu/Solfeggio thread and the reduced set of 27 tones.

These tones are related to the Tetractys and hence the Lambdoma.

Stan Tenen has also mentioned the Lambdoma.
He has also talked about the Tetractys and the point/line/surface/volume progression (a bit like Nassim mentions) in relation to the Platonic Solids in general and the cuboctahedron in particular.

The Rodin control dial itself could be rearranged as a Tetractys of 10 points.



Some more info on the Tetractys itself from a Pythagorean perspective - here. Plato also wrote about it in . More on Pythagorean tuning .

Tetractys:

1
2 3
4 5 6
7 8 9 10

Lambdoma:

1
2 3
4 6 9
8 12 18 27

Factor progression:

1x1
2x1 3x1
2x2 2x3 3x3
2x2x2 2x2x3 2x3x3 3x3x3

I found an interesting parallel in a video on youtube about the .
At first it might seem arbitrary and even silly to assume such a link.

That is until you realise that the Tzolkin is based on 20 seals which can be paired off into a group of 10 - a Tetractys!!! (A also has 20 vertex points.)

Anyway, I hope that will keep us going for a while longer.

sadukan.

PS I'm looking into Ian Xel Lungold's video lectures about the Maya and Tzolkin on googlevids and if I find anything interesting I'll mention it as appropriate. For example, most Mayan pyramids had either 5 or 9 levels. From the Harmonograph book it is noted that a "5th" (3:2) can be split into a "major 3rd" (5:4) and "minor 3rd" (6:5). As a harmonograph, the 5th forms a pentagram and the major and minor 3rds make an enneagram (9-sided) and an (11-sided) respectively. This can be seen easily by adding the two components of the ratio describing the tone.

PPS This also links back in to our Stargate theme. The Stargate has lambda shaped chevrons and the symbol for Earth was a lambda with a single circle above it. Interestingly, (in the original movie) the symbol for the distant planet was also a lambda, though now with 3 circles connected together - a perhaps. Also, the natives were forbidden from reading or writing (suppression of the Tritone?).

"over it is 19"[74:30]
(DiYu - 18 Levels of Hell)
Philip LeMarchand


Last edited by sadukan; 04-01-2010 at 03:14 PM. Reason: minor additional comment
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Old 03-01-2010, 10:33 PM   #615
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http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/pseudo/fibonacc.htm

I was just reading this, and while I was being a bit annoyed with his negative attitude, the writer does actually have a point as I was noticing this myself too - the nature actually does not follow phi spiral in many of the cases. Actually to think of it I can't really find examples where the spiral would fit perfectly.

What I found interesting however, was that the writer introduced another sequence as a mere example, that actually (by accident?) does produce a ratio that some of the pictures he introduced on the page do follow. For example 3:4 = 0.75 and its reciprocal 1.333... , which is also related to the pythagorean 3-4-5 triple.

I found it pretty ironic, so I named the sequence Flim-Flam sequence anyway maybe someone has already named such a sequence, just didn't find any mention of it anywhere..

Here's a few test examples I made with a 75% progression spiral, to clarify again this is NOT a phi spiral in the pictures:



Here you can find the sequence, MOD9 in red, divided to 3x13 sections.

To top it off the sequence starts again after reaching 39th number, which as a number has some interesting properties in favor of "pseudoscience" which "the original inventor"(?) of this sequence was so much against

http://www.wisdomportal.com/Numbers/39.html

PS. Not sure how all this links to other things presented this far though. Because of its angles the 3 - 4 - 5 triangle for example is not easily linked to geometrical shapes other than the square/cube. Although it's not necessarily a bad starting point because you can fit all the platonic solids inside a cube..

Anyway, I'm looking more and more for clues in the nature now, because that's where I think the answers are. Here's the book living energies for example, which seems quite interesting in this regard (thx to djbroussard for the link):

http://www.scribd.com/doc/7953873/Co...-Energies-2001

It also seems that I'm starting to sidetrack from the original topic more and more with my posts, so might be that I'll be writing to some other topics more in the future..

edit: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...er_Iceland.jpg another pic I found, again the same story here as with the other pictures..

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Old 03-01-2010, 11:53 PM   #616
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Isn't mathematics amazing?...Anyone got anything new?
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Old 04-01-2010, 06:52 AM   #617
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Quote:
Isn't mathematics amazing?...Anyone got anything new?
Actually I think that nature is amazing, and not sure if numbers / mathematics will ever alone be able to make sense of it all, without an additional aspect at least. Like perhaps spiritual advancement, linking to nature and developing wider understanding. That's why I'm starting to lean on a another path. I think Viktor Schauberger as a great inspiration, he seemed like a man that had both, the ability to look beyond what the optical instruments would allow and have the scientific knowledge as well. I highly recommend the book I presented as an eye opener.

There seem to be rules in nature although maybe not mathematically / scientifically yet always found. We don't live in chaos either on contrary to what some might think. Evil will arise only if we allow it ourselves, so the blame is not on others but it starts with every individual. That's why I don't like the theories of conspiracy and "something being held from us". It's essentially blaming others and not taking our own responsibility to develop..
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Old 04-01-2010, 03:50 PM   #618
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Originally Posted by jtstatic View Post
Actually I think that nature is amazing, and not sure if numbers / mathematics will ever alone be able to make sense of it all, without an additional aspect at least. Like perhaps spiritual advancement, linking to nature and developing wider understanding. That's why I'm starting to lean on a another path. I think Viktor Schauberger as a great inspiration, he seemed like a man that had both, the ability to look beyond what the optical instruments would allow and have the scientific knowledge as well. I highly recommend the book I presented as an eye opener.

There seem to be rules in nature although maybe not mathematically / scientifically yet always found. We don't live in chaos either on contrary to what some might think. Evil will arise only if we allow it ourselves, so the blame is not on others but it starts with every individual. That's why I don't like the theories of conspiracy and "something being held from us". It's essentially blaming others and not taking our own responsibility to develop..

Yes: Nature=Creation=Nature.
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Old 04-01-2010, 05:57 PM   #619
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Hej people , i have a question
I'm not big into creating any virtualisations with a computer but seeing as
some of you here are more into it my question is:
Can anybody make a nice picture of a lot of Phi spirals going to one center
as pointed out in this clip > (the last 4 minutes is what i'm aiming at)
Nassim points out the interference patterns created by the spirals and i was wondering if they could look like the frequency experiments.......like the one with salt (warning: very high pitch noise eventually) >
Thanks in advance for anybody willing to give it a go if it's not a too big of an effort
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Old 05-01-2010, 03:04 PM   #620
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I have been out of this thread for a bit - as the topics you guys are talking about are really out of my level of understanding - and I have a lot of reading to do just to keep up....so I appologize if this post throws the discussion off track.

Anyway, I wanted to find out if anyone knows of a Vortex modeling web site? Or app? I know this is probably asking a lot. Of interest, I got one of my kids a "Tornado Tube" for Christmas - basically one of those double threaded plastic tubes that connects two 2-liter soda bottles end to end and lets you create a vortex by filling one bottle with water and draining it into the other bottle. Anyway, after doing some extensive playing with it, it became clear that the vortex is the effect of the torroid, in that the vortex will not form if the torroid isn't complete (or high enough momentum). I guess kind of obvious, but it sometimes helps to see cause and effect in motion. Moreover, I noticed that the vortex creates a screw and the illusion is that of a spinning barber pole. I cant tell if the bubbles are spirailing up, or the water is spiraling down - or both.

It seems it should be apparent that the bubbles are rising to the surface, but one thing I noticed is that it appears that the water is actually moving down the screw while pushing the bubbles backwards up the screw to the top.

Again, a lot of this seems apparent, but what I find interesting in the case of this tube, the spiral stops at the bottom of the torroid - not in the middle of it like a lot of models show. Maybe this is just because the water drains into the second bottle and cant ciculate back up around the torroid. I dont know. I have found out that this won't work without the second botle attached - it seems to be a pressure issue. Also, the screw seems to take on a pre-determined angle no matter what size the vortex or the diameter of the air path up the middle. Is this possibly due to angular momentum from gyroscopic effect (gyroscopic precession of sorts)??? This all just poses lots of questions and make me wonder what this tells us about the torroid itself, and how it effects other materials (i.e. electricity, air, solids, etc). Does the vortex behave differently when two torroids are stacked on top of each other (as the bottles seem to simulate) or does each torroid behave the same way when both ends are open?
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