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Old 17-12-2018, 07:56 PM   #1081
merlincove
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Default Taqiyya

Further more:

Deception, Lying
and Taqiyya
Does Islam permit Muslims to lie?

Muslim scholars teach that Muslims should generally be truthful to each other, unless the purpose of lying is to "smooth over differences" or "gain the upper-hand over an enemy"

There are several forms of lying to non-believers that are permitted under certain circumstances, the best known being taqiyya (the Shia name). These circumstances are typically those that advance the cause of Islam - in some cases by gaining the trust of non-believers in order to draw out their vulnerability and defeat them.
Quran
Quran (16:106) - Establishes that there are circumstances that can "compel" a Muslim to tell a lie.

Quran (3:28) - This verse tells Muslims not to take those outside the faith as friends, unless it is to "guard themselves" against danger, meaning that there are times when a Muslim may appear friendly to non-Muslims, even though they should not feel friendly.

Quran (9:3) - "...Allah and His Messenger are free from liability to the idolaters..." The dissolution of oaths is with pagans who remained at Mecca following its capture. They did nothing wrong, but were evicted anyway. (The next verse refers only to those who have a personal agreement with Muhammad as individuals - see Ibn Kathir vol 4, p 49)

Quran (66:2) - "Allah has already ordained for you the dissolution of your oaths..."

Quran (40:28) - A man is introduced as a believer, but one who had to "hide his faith" among those who are not believers.

Quran (2:225) - "Allah will not call you to account for thoughtlessness in your oaths, but for the intention in your hearts"

Quran (3:54) - "And they (the disbelievers) schemed, and Allah schemed (against them): and Allah is the best of schemers." The Arabic word used here for scheme (or plot) is makara, which literally means 'deceit'. If Allah is supremely deceitful toward unbelievers, then there is little basis for denying that Muslims are allowed to do the same. (See also 8:30 and 10:21)

Taken collectively these verses are interpreted to mean that there are circumstances when a Muslim may be "compelled" to deceive others for a greater purpose.
Hadith and Sira
Sahih Bukhari (52:269) - "The Prophet said, 'War is deceit.'" The context of this is thought to be the murder of Usayr ibn Zarim and his thirty unarmed companions by Muhammad's men after they were "guaranteed" safe passage (see Additional Notes below).

Sahih Bukhari (49:857) - "He who makes peace between the people by inventing good information or saying good things, is not a liar." Lying is permitted when the end justifies the means.

Sahih Bukhari (84:64-65) - Speaking from a position of power at the time, Ali confirms that lying is permitted in order to deceive an "enemy." The Quran defines the 'enemy' as "disbelievers" (4:101).

Sahih Muslim (32:6303) - "...he did not hear that exemption was granted in anything what the people speak as lie but in three cases: in battle, for bringing reconciliation amongst persons and the narration of the words of the husband to his wife, and the narration of the words of a wife to her husband (in a twisted form in order to bring reconciliation between them)."

Sahih Bukhari (50:369) - Recounts the murder of a poet, Ka'b bin al-Ashraf, at Muhammad's insistence. The men who volunteered for the assassination used dishonesty to gain Ka'b's trust, pretending that they had turned against Muhammad. This drew the victim out of his fortress, whereupon he was brutally slaughtered.

From Islamic Law:

Reliance of the Traveler (p. 746 - 8.2) - "Speaking is a means to achieve objectives. If a praiseworthy aim is attainable through both telling the truth and lying, it is unlawful to accomplish through lying because there is no need for it. When it is possible to achieve such an aim by lying but not by telling the truth, it is permissible to lie if attaining the goal is permissible (N:i.e. when the purpose of lying is to circumvent someone who is preventing one from doing something permissible), and obligatory to lie if the goal is obligatory... it is religiously precautionary in all cases to employ words that give a misleading impression... (See the Permissible Lying section on the Sharia page for more)

"One should compare the bad consequences entailed by lying to those entailed by telling the truth, and if the consequences of telling the truth are more damaging, one is entitled to lie."

https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/p...n/taqiyya.aspx
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Old 17-12-2018, 09:47 PM   #1082
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May be someone closed Sadiq Khan should ask in public if he is truthful to non-believers.
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Old 18-12-2018, 12:44 AM   #1083
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elshaper View Post
May be someone closed Sadiq Khan should ask in public if he is truthful to non-believers.
I know thats a tongue in cheek response yes?
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Old 18-12-2018, 05:26 AM   #1084
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elshaper View Post
May be someone closed Sadiq Khan should ask in public if he is truthful to non-believers.
He's a friend of terrorists & extremists, he's already said terrorism is 'part & parcel' of living in a big city in a none Muslim state - in full accordance with the quoran. He's banned adverts showing women dressed in what Islam calls inappropriate fashion - again in full accordance with the quoran.

If he's asked if he lies, then the quoran instructs that he can lie to protect his skin.

Again, khan-jobs answer will be in full accordance of the quoran and his true paymasters.

Last edited by merlincove; 18-12-2018 at 05:33 AM.
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Old 18-12-2018, 05:31 AM   #1085
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You know people say that the torrah instructs Jews that they can lie to the goyim, that they can cheat the goyim, that they can kill the goyim.

As far as I can tell no Jewish doctrine or text from the torrah says this - but it is bandied about as factual.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

But the quoran does say these things, it does instruct the Muslim to lie to, cheat and kill none believers.

And yet this truth is idly washed over.

Last edited by merlincove; 18-12-2018 at 05:32 AM.
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Old 18-12-2018, 08:46 AM   #1086
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The hate speech religions are being used by the United Nations Treaties to invade and kill peace loving, equality giving and neighbor loving religions.

If that doesnt make you mad now, what the fu*k will? When they burn your house down and rape the women and its too late?
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Old 18-12-2018, 02:56 PM   #1087
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Originally Posted by elpressiedente View Post
The hate speech religions are being used by the United Nations Treaties to invade and kill peace loving, equality giving and neighbor loving religions.

If that doesnt make you mad now, what the fu*k will? When they burn your house down and rape the women and its too late?
Is that after or before the head chopping?

I'm utterly surprised that after a soldier was attacked & almost beheaded before being killed on a street in London, after all the paedo ring cases, after the Manchester arena attack where children were killed, after open extremism from Muslim clerics that very few people are questioning fundamental Islam - & furthermore that those who do question are the ones being called racist.
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Old 18-12-2018, 03:05 PM   #1088
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Quote:
Originally Posted by merlincove View Post
You know people say that the torrah instructs Jews that they can lie to the goyim, that they can cheat the goyim, that they can kill the goyim.

As far as I can tell no Jewish doctrine or text from the torrah says this - but it is bandied about as factual.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

But the quoran does say these things, it does instruct the Muslim to lie to, cheat and kill none believers.

And yet this truth is idly washed over.
But you know....if you tell the truth to masses, it will be branded as hate-speech because they can lie. Win-Win for them really.

This is why working in the shadow is important. There is no moral here. Eye for an eye. It will bring results and nobody has to know it. Some call it chickened out and hiding but this is the only effective way. Whether you use water cannon, an arrow or stones is your choice of method.

But then again, if I know I'm gonna be out of here...should I care that much other than minding my own business? Of course, there is no guarantee that I'll be out but I'll give it a good go. mnn questions merlin.
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Old 18-12-2018, 03:09 PM   #1089
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elpressiedente View Post
The hate speech religions are being used by the United Nations Treaties to invade and kill peace loving, equality giving and neighbor loving religions.

If that doesnt make you mad now, what the fu*k will? When they burn your house down and rape the women and its too late?
Quote:
Originally Posted by merlincove View Post
Is that after or before the head chopping?

I'm utterly surprised that after a soldier was attacked & almost beheaded before being killed on a street in London, after all the paedo ring cases, after the Manchester arena attack where children were killed, after open extremism from Muslim clerics that very few people are questioning fundamental Islam - & furthermore that those who do question are the ones being called racist.
That's because the world is fcked to the point of no return.
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Old 18-12-2018, 03:48 PM   #1090
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Not listened to this podcast yet but the title caught my eyes and the channel has interesting topics so...

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Old 19-12-2018, 05:19 PM   #1091
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Default I'm a mooslim....when it's convenient

Quote:
Originally Posted by merlincove View Post
And to say you are a Muslim - well, unless you can quote word for word scripture from the Quoran, then you ain't gonna pass the test.
well they lie. So can we. It's not as if the authority is coming running after us.

We've argued with Christian members before whether Jesus existed, who is the morning star, santa etc.....
Be wise and we shall not argue again, this time, with mooslims. It's like history keep repeating itself.

You can argue till cows come home. You know, arguments won't change anything as if they are going to be persuaded by their enemy. Only action affect so I'd say, Just Do IT.

Interesting things I found during my time in war.
You don't have to say annnnything to the opponent. You just move a chess piece and they have to change.

Last edited by elshaper; 19-12-2018 at 05:27 PM.
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Old 23-12-2018, 11:01 PM   #1092
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This is how China deals with it....

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Old 24-12-2018, 01:55 AM   #1093
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This is how China deals with it....
Re-Brainwashing the brainwashed...

excellent idea.

At least the chinese know savagery when they see it
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Old 05-01-2019, 12:25 PM   #1094
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The woman who was murdered uncannily resembles Amy Winehouse?

"It carries on as long as you tolerate it."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/storie...nd-her-selfies
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Old 01-03-2019, 03:00 AM   #1095
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Lightbulb Death of the author.

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I still love the masons! Be proactive; believe in change and everyone; trust no one.
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