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Old 27-04-2016, 08:17 AM   #41
hande
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I will because like normal your head is wedged firmly up your arse, you wish only to discuss the bit that suits your agenda,

I have pontificated nothing at no point have I even disagreed with the inquest result you are so pleased with

I have clearly stated that what happened that day was down to a Police error - You know the bit you also say - I have agreed it was a cover up that has last been exposed - like yourself.

I did think on a discussion forum that the circumstances that lead up to it and societies ills would be valid talking points. Particularly since similar tragedies had only been averted previously by luck.


My mistake this is a strictly bash the police thread - Have we blamed Thatcher yet I'm sure she was throwing stolen milk into the crowd.
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Old 27-04-2016, 08:24 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by hande View Post
I will because like normal your head is wedged firmly up your arse, you wish only to discuss the bit that suits your agenda,

I have pontificated nothing at no point have I even disagreed with the inquest result you are so pleased with

I have clearly stated that what happened that day was down to a Police error - You know the bit you also say - I have agreed it was a cover up that has last been exposed - like yourself.

I did think on a discussion forum that the circumstances that lead up to it and societies ills would be valid talking points. Particularly since similar tragedies had only been averted previously by luck.


My mistake this is a strictly bash the police thread - Have we blamed Thatcher yet I'm sure she was throwing stolen milk into the crowd.
The Inquest found the Police guilty ,what do you NOT understand ....or are you here to disrupt the thread , if the Police are getting "Bashed" its because they tried to cover up and whitewash what really happened .....

I have posted Music , and the pictures of the Victims ....but if some want to talk about the Cover up by the Police ,it is very valid . Go Back to the OP and read the Inquest results .
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Old 27-04-2016, 08:48 AM   #43
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I do have to agree there because of the culture of British football hooliganism, that it was indirectly setting the stage for what was to happen that day. If this had been any other sporting event that kind of security measure would never have been undertaken. I'm not saying the fans where to blame that day - absolutely not. I agree also too also, that with the amount of big money that these clubs have, money should've been spent on trying to make the stadium and grounds more safer. This culture of football hooliganism is the main reason I cannot stand football. Fighting over what is technically a bread and circus event. It's the stone age culture not the intelligence culture. We need to move on from all this.

I can't believe some here are suggesting this tragedy was a hoax, that is one hell of a far out suggestion. Maybe some broadcast fakery here or there, but surely not the entire event. This isn't Sandy Hook or the Boston bombing's where talking about you know.

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Old 27-04-2016, 08:51 AM   #44
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Freemasonry linked to ‘police cover-up’ of Hillsborough disaster that left 96 dead
Published time: 26 Apr, 2016 16:39

Freemasonry has been linked to allegations of a police cover-up concerning the Hillsborough disaster, as a decades-long battle for justice for the families of 96 people who died that fateful day rolls on. Freemasons’ power and influence in Britain and allegations that Scotland Yard ran a “black propaganda unit” are being probed by two separate criminal inquiries due to come to a close by the end of 2016.

Files relating to a number of key individuals and organizations are currently being scoured for evidence of criminality, including manslaughter and the perversion of the course of justice. Jon Stoddart, who headed Scotland Yard’s Operation Resolve probe into the planning of the FA Cup semi-final match that left 96 Liverpool FC supporters dead, says scrutiny is being directed at senior ranking officials.

https://www.rt.com/uk/341012-freemas...ce-corruption/
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Old 27-04-2016, 08:54 AM   #45
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I fail to understand nothing - hints in the bit where I said - Police guilty of cover up - police at fault on day.


Next will come a campaign to prosecute Police and stadium for negligence

Events on the day WILL NOT be taken in isolation, in any accident** investigation contributory and external factors are taken into consideration. As they should be.

Those points I raised like Security measures, fences and typical crowd behaviour will all be used as evidence by the police as to why they weren't to blame. As such don't even expect to see a single sacrificial officer / stadium manager sacrificed.

Edit as Techman said - No other event would have that type of Police presence or security measures in place - Its a factor in what happened on the day however unpalatable that may be.
What part of that don't you understand.

**It wasn't intentional or natural causes so I se the term accident.

Cynically I feel nobody will be pinged for the cover up or it will fall at the feet of some dead or long retired officer.

Last edited by hande; 27-04-2016 at 09:00 AM.
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Old 27-04-2016, 08:58 AM   #46
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The Inquest found the Police guilty ,what do you NOT understand ....or are you here to disrupt the thread , if the Police are getting "Bashed" its because they tried to cover up and whitewash what really happened .....

I have posted Music , and the pictures of the Victims ....but if some want to talk about the Cover up by the Police ,it is very valid . Go Back to the OP and read the Inquest results .
masonic police skullduggery:

The IPCC probe is scrutinizing amendments to police statements, as well as allegations that misinformation was fed to UK media outlets, MPs, and subsequent inquiries, in a concerted effort to direct accountability for the deaths of Liverpool fans away from police. Norman Bettison, 60, a former chief inspector with South Yorkshire Police who worked alongside a team gathering evidence concerning the Hillsborough disaster, denies being part of a so-called “black propaganda unit.” He was later made chief constable of Merseyside and West Yorkshire Police.

The IPCC is also probing the actions of police chiefs in the wake of the Hillsborough disaster, particularly concerning the monitoring of blood/alcohol levels, sourcing of the criminal records of the deceased, and secret surveillance operations on victims’ families. The second investigation, referenced by Stoddart, is a Scotland Yard probe enacted in the wake of a damning report published by Britain’s Hillsborough Independent Panel in 2012. The panel concluded that 164 police documents had been sanitized, and in 116 of these cases the changes related to remarks deemed to be “unfavorable” regarding the policing of the football match.

https://www.rt.com/uk/341012-freemas...ce-corruption/
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Old 27-04-2016, 08:59 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by hande View Post
I fail to understand nothing - hints in the bit where I said - Police guilty of cover up - police at fault on day.


Next will come a campaign to prosecute Police and stadium for negligence

Events on the day WILL NOT be taken in isolation, in any accident** investigation contributory and external factors are taken into consideration. As they should be.

Those points I raised like Security measures, fences and typical crowd behaviour will all be used as evidence by the police as to why they weren't to blame. As such don't even expect to see a single sacrificial officer / stadium manager sacrificed.

What part of that don't you understand.

**It wasn't intentional or natural causes so I se the term accident.

cynically nobody will be pinged for the cover up it will fall at the feet of some dead or long retired officer.
Quote:
My mistake this is a strictly bash the police thread - Have we blamed Thatcher yet I'm sure she was throwing stolen milk into the crowd.
This comments says it all about your real agenda on this thread .....
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Old 27-04-2016, 09:06 AM   #48
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Hande: ''My mistake this is a strictly bash the police thread - Have we blamed Thatcher yet I'm sure she was throwing stolen milk into the crowd.''

I think its a mistake to bash all police...many are doing the best they can under difficult circumstances. The issue here is whether there is a firm within a firm who work to pervert the course of justice. Those few organised people who work through their lodge connections then cast a dark shadow over all the police by making them all look bad and often ruin lives in the process

I put it to you that psychopaths who do seek to gain influence within organisations like the police will always view things like freemasonry as a great way to get a leg up and will use that and any other means they can to carry out their corrupt practices. They are networked and organised. They get their guys into key positions of influence which they call 'gatekeepers'

Imagine a circuit board with electricity running through various gates. If you control the gates you can control the flow of electricity and so it is with organisations and the flow of information. So if you control key positions then you can control the input and output of information

Allegations have emerged of a black ops section of masons embedded within the police who are perverting the course of justice and who blacken the name of the police in the process as well as blocking the honest work of the good cops
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Old 27-04-2016, 09:09 AM   #49
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This comments says it all about your real agenda on this thread .....
Really Whats my agenda then ?

There will be a campaign to prosecute for negligence -
The Police will use prior behaviour as mitigating evidence-

Not sure what agenda I'm showing there.

This evidence will mean no prosecutions of those there on the day - Wheres my agenda in that.

Oh you must mean the bit where I implied that they would get away with the cover up by blaming somebody long dead - aye you right I'm secretly supporting the police.

Get a bloody grip expressing my cynical opinion those responsible will get away scot free is hardly showing an agenda is it.

Edit ah - I think there may be confusion over my next will come a campaign for prosecution comment.
As written I accept that it could be mistaken for now theyve got this they will try to get this what I meant was following on from the inquest the next phase in the process is prosecution.

My apologies if that was unclear and misread.

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Old 27-04-2016, 09:11 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by hande View Post
I will because like normal your head is wedged firmly up your arse, you wish only to discuss the bit that suits your agenda,

I have pontificated nothing at no point have I even disagreed with the inquest result you are so pleased with

I have clearly stated that what happened that day was down to a Police error - You know the bit you also say - I have agreed it was a cover up that has last been exposed - like yourself.

I did think on a discussion forum that the circumstances that lead up to it and societies ills would be valid talking points. Particularly since similar tragedies had only been averted previously by luck.


My mistake this is a strictly bash the police thread - Have we blamed Thatcher yet I'm sure she was throwing stolen milk into the crowd.
I am pleased you brought up Thatcher, because she knew about the "devastating criticism of the police" way back, but she did nothing. She could have intervened years ago, but she did not.

Telegraph 2012

"Hillsborough: prosecutions likely over 'the biggest cover-up in history'
The Hillsborough stadium disaster led to the "the biggest cover-up in history", it has been claimed as a new report disclosed the extent to which police doctored statements and tried to blame innocent fans.


Margaret Thatcher expressed concern in Cabinet that the first inquiry into the disaster contained 'devastating criticism of the police"



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/foo...n-history.html

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Old 27-04-2016, 09:15 AM   #51
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I pleased you brought up Thatcher, because she knew about the "devastating criticism of the police" way back, but she did nothing. She could have intervened years ago, but she did not.

Telegraph 2012

"Hillsborough: prosecutions likely over 'the biggest cover-up in history'
The Hillsborough stadium disaster led to the "the biggest cover-up in history", it has been claimed as a new report disclosed the extent to which police doctored statements and tried to blame innocent fans.


Margaret Thatcher expressed concern in Cabinet that the first inquiry into the disaster contained 'devastating criticism of the police"



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/foo...n-history.html
it seems she kept the lid on a lot of toxic stuff that has poisoned our society

She let a whole load of boils fester that should have been lanced long ago
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Old 27-04-2016, 09:15 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by iamawaveofthesea View Post
Hande:
I think its a mistake to bash all police...many are doing the best they can under difficult circumstances. The issue here is whether there is a firm within a firm who work to pervert the course of justice. Those few organised people who work through their lodge connections then cast a dark shadow over all the police by making them all look bad and often ruin lives in the process

I
Have a like - I'm in agreement.
Unfortunately as I have not slavishly followed the party line - I'm accused of a secret agenda.

Whereas my points were to raise the broader issues and how that will impinge on any subsequent attempts at prosecution.

Personally I don't think the inquest should lead to prosecutions for the mistakes made - difficult times, difficult circumstances bad decision.

I do think those that attempted a cover up should be, but as they were seniors in the force - they will walk, for the reasons you give.

Not sure why Granny agrees with your point about plod but not with my same point. I will assume I wasn't clear in earlier posts and once it got a bit heated miss understandings abound.
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Old 27-04-2016, 09:16 AM   #53
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Moderator/Admin note

quote from OP:
"Hillsborough Conclusions ......
Ninety-six football fans who died as a result of a crush in the Hillsborough disaster were unlawfully killed, the inquests have concluded.

Police failures led to the deaths in the 1989 Hillsborough disaster.

Jurors answered yes to the question about whether any police error caused or contributed to a dangerous situation at the 1989 FA Cup semi-final.

The behaviour of Liverpool fans did not contribute to the dangerous situation at the turnstiles."


Some posts have been removed or edited.
The thread topic is a vindication for those fallen at Hillsborough, their families and friends. Please can we not tarnish this thread with bickering and 'hoax' speculation.

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Old 27-04-2016, 09:17 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by hande View Post
Have a like - I'm in agreement.
Unfortunately as I have not slavishly followed the party line - I'm accused of a secret agenda.

Whereas my points were to raise the broader issues and how that will impinge on any subsequent attempts at prosecution.

Personally I don't think the inquest should lead to prosecutions for the mistakes made - difficult times, difficult circumstances bad decision.

I do think those that attempted a cover up should be, but as they were seniors in the force - they will walk, for the reasons you give.

Not sure why Granny agrees with your point about plod but not with my same point. I will assume I wasn't clear in earlier posts and once it got a bit heated miss understandings abound.
i haven't read all your comments, just the ones on this page and i understand your belief that no high level prosecutions will follow...that has certainly been the pattern with most events

we are looking at a network of powerful people, linked by the lodge, who all protect each other regardless of their culpability in various crimes many of which are extremely serious; being in that club is like having a 'get-out-of-jail-free' card in the monopoly game of life
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Old 27-04-2016, 09:26 AM   #55
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Having said that, I have a feeling it was "allowed" to get out of hand. The reports of turnstiles not being manned (if that is correct?) with no police/attendants present to check fans' tickets just tells me something odd was going on. What was so special about this particular match which allowed it to escalate out of control and have so many fans packing into the stadium?. There have been similar incidents, but nowhere near as big as what happened that day.

Whether or not this is aload of BS it is still interesting nonetheless:

"Football hooliganism was a very real thing throughout the seventies and eighties. It’s a credible, noble lie, that this could be sold on. Do I think it’s a legitimate one? No. But maybe it’s easier in retrospect. At that time, in that place, there was perhaps a presented reality that crowds were becoming a real problem.

Hillsborough truly helped change football. Barriers actually came down. Football was safer. More women and children started going to games. SKY TV came in and the premier league began –
Hillsborough was an ignoble psyop for the gentrification of the sport; the pretext for banning stands in favour of all-seater stadiums, on the grounds of safety.

Since a seat takes up three times the footprint of a standing spectator, the ticket prices had to triple accordingly, just to maintain revenues.
"

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Old 27-04-2016, 09:32 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by roastpotatoes View Post
I pleased you brought up Thatcher, because she knew about the "devastating criticism of the police" way back, but she did nothing. She could have intervened years ago, but she did not.

Telegraph 2012

"Hillsborough: prosecutions likely over 'the biggest cover-up in history'
The Hillsborough stadium disaster led to the "the biggest cover-up in history", it has been claimed as a new report disclosed the extent to which police doctored statements and tried to blame innocent fans.


Margaret Thatcher expressed concern in Cabinet that the first inquiry into the disaster contained 'devastating criticism of the police"



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/foo...n-history.html
Jack Straw and the Labour Party did fuck all either (please read up about his cover up).....If I bash one I will bash all ......
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Old 27-04-2016, 09:34 AM   #57
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Jack Straw and the Labour Party did fuck all either (please read up about his cover up).....If I bash one I will bash all ......
2 masks on the same face

there is no 'labour' or 'tory' parties there is only the BUSINESS party
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Old 27-04-2016, 09:40 AM   #58
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Some care should be taken in posting on this subject, it is still subject to legal process, and it would be a shame if anyone found themselves in trouble.
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Old 27-04-2016, 09:45 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by aster View Post
Moderator/Admin note

quote from OP:
"Hillsborough Conclusions ......
Ninety-six football fans who died as a result of a crush in the Hillsborough disaster were unlawfully killed, the inquests have concluded.

Police failures led to the deaths in the 1989 Hillsborough disaster.

Jurors answered yes to the question about whether any police error caused or contributed to a dangerous situation at the 1989 FA Cup semi-final.

The behaviour of Liverpool fans did not contribute to the dangerous situation at the turnstiles."


Some posts have been removed or edited.
The thread topic is a vindication for those fallen at Hillsborough, their families and friends. Please can we not tarnish this thread with bickering and 'hoax' speculation.
In that vein
I think that Grannie misunderstood the content and context of my posts, I (possibly miss) interpreted her responses as an accusation that I felt it was the victims to blame.

I was rather offended by that accusation and my next replies were I agree unhelpful and inflammatory.
I therefore apologise to Grannie for the inflammatory remarks.

Last edited by hande; 27-04-2016 at 09:45 AM.
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Old 27-04-2016, 09:47 AM   #60
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In that vein
I think that Grannie misunderstood the content and context of my posts, I (possibly miss) interpreted her responses as an accusation that I felt it was the victims to blame.

I was rather offended by that accusation and my next replies were I agree unhelpful and inflammatory.
I therefore apologise to Grannie for the inflammatory remarks.
Thankyou hande . I accept .
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