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Old 08-02-2013, 02:16 PM   #41
pr0fanus
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Originally Posted by pyrrhonist View Post
Yet another logic fail.

If it's secret from you, then it's secret from me. This is true.

But none of you appear willing to even consider the possibility that there are secret groups operating within the fraternity. Because there is no way you can know for certain that there isn't, you are being dishonest here.

You are asking me to believe something that is not provable. No honest man could ever ask another to do this.

I know that the most basic strategy of the confidence trickster is to pretend that he knows something that his mark does not. You lot are claiming to know something that cannot be known - ergo, you are liars.

Get it?
The error in your mode of thinking is that you seem to assume that if there could be a secret body within Freemasonry, you'll go a head and assume that there is. Well, there could be a race of space monkeys living on the dark side of the Moon. Is there any reason to assume that there is?
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an ignorant, babbling hooligan out to destroy the Christian religion

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Old 08-02-2013, 04:33 PM   #42
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I have to agree with this because I have met a few in my life and they seemed to be all pretty ignorant and very naive in regards to the esoteric aspects of the craft, the true history masonry and also life in general. When you go online, everyone is a 32 degree Freemason with a blog as if they are ascended masters or adepts when they are far from it.

This reminds me of "some" of the mason behavior that we see in this forum. A bunch of know it all masons with 32 degrees that really don't mean shit when it comes to the esoteric, self mastery and being a true adept.
And this is the reason I keep coming to this forum. I learn so much about my Freemasonry from experts here on this forum. No matter that they aren't Mason's...
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Old 08-02-2013, 10:36 PM   #43
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How's this for a reason: some people might not be loyal to the aims of Freemasonry and have joined the fraternity in an effort to sabotage it and/or use its knowledge for other means?
I'm sure some do join for mercenary motives, but they usually don't get very far in the Fraternity.

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Every organised group considers the possibility that some of its members are not loyal to it. It is ludicrous to claim that none of you have considered this possibility.
Yeah...we're not all paranoid and go seeking for "bad guys".

We have a penal code to deal with those who have violated our rules and it gets used. I know we need to better watch our West Gate and I think the TO Lodges are on the right track with requiring potential members to attend dinners and public functions for a year prior to even initiating them.

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I'm merely asking how it could be known that there aren't - and references to "BS meters" will only convince idiots.
Well, how Freemasonry operates would prevent any real sabotage, plus why would any Mason jeopardize their membership by forming a clandestine group? Experience from seeing various incidents tells me it wouldn't last long and end well for those who formed the group.

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In order to speak the truth, you have to know what it is, which means that you're claiming there are things that can be known with 100% certainty.
I know with 100% certainty that 2 + 2 = 4. I know how Freemasonry operates and cooperates with one another. Experience tells me.

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The reality is that you do not know if he is the real deal or not and your opinion of who is and what he represents is just that.
Oh, I'm sure he was initiated, but as to the validity and accuracy of his book, I see a lot of errors. His story is full of holes as well. He sounds like a bitter little boy who needs to grow up to what his age is.

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Like everyone else, yours is just an opinion because the facts are even though you are a self proclaimed 32 degree Freemason, that does not mean you know everything going on in the craft or are an official spokesman for them on this matter.
Herein lies the problem with most anti-Masons, non-Masons, and even some Masons...there's more to Freemasonry than just the Scottish Rite.

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In regards to the Knights Templars, anyone who call themselves a Knight or a Sir is essentially breaking the law because the facts are under UN law, someone who calls themselves a Knight and Sir who has not been Knighted by the Queen is doing so illegally.
Citation please. 1) Why would the UN pass such a law? 2) They have no authority to enforce such a measure. 3) I seriously doubt this is actually a law.

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Just because you are a Freemason or an alleged Templar, does not preclude you from obeying the law and customs of the true Knights Templars recognized under UN law who follow the law of the land.
Well neither the UN nor England can override the US Constitution. The UN is more than welcome to come and arrest me, I welcome it.

I'm not alleging anything, I can prove I'm a Templar Knight in the Masons. The name "Knights Templar" is not copyrighted so anyone can and does use it, just like the Knights of Malta.

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What are your rights in Freemasonry that no one cannot protest, openly criticize or attempt to discredit the fraternity?
I never said you couldn't criticize, but when what you say is blatantly wrong and false I have equal right to voice my opinion.

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In regards to Albert Pike and WWIII, I guess next you are going to tell me the George Bush's grandfather did not fund Hitler and the Nazi's and that the Roman Catholic Church is not in collusion with Freemasonry and a New World Oder.
The whole WWIII thing is a proven hoax. Those attributed words were never actually written by Pike.

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Did you know that Washington DC was once called Rome and that Freemason, George Washington is related to Scandanavian and British royalty?
To your first questions, yes, I knew that DC was once referred to as Rome.

To your second, I'd like to see sources, but it honestly wouldn't matter to me.

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If you have done your homework on the history of Freemasonry, then you would know they 'help' run the show via ORDO AB CHAO.
Yeah, that's not what we mean by "Order out of Chaos."

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Hence, it is their job to lie, mislead and cause confusion with everything they do.
Lying is a great crime in Freemasonry. Truth is the first lesson every Mason is taught. I've been nothing but honest with everyone on this forum.

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Therefor, tis the reason why everything is secret, confusing and why those who are non 33rd degree masons speculate.
Like I've said, there's much more to Freemasonry than just the few degrees of the Scottish Rite. You guys like to believe we're deceitful to each other, but that's just not how it works. You also seem to confuse degree with rank which is not a good way of looking at Freemasonry.

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Originally Posted by knightstemplar View Post
I have to agree with this because I have met a few in my life and they seemed to be all pretty ignorant and very naive in regards to the esoteric aspects of the craft, the true history masonry and also life in general. When you go online, everyone is a 32 degree Freemason with a blog as if they are ascended masters or adepts when they are far from it.

This reminds me of "some" of the mason behavior that we see in this forum. A bunch of know it all masons with 32 degrees that really don't mean shit when it comes to the esoteric, self mastery and being a true adept.
Hey, you're describing James Wright.

A recent article about an excerpt of Albert Mackey's: Reading Mason?

I agree with some of the point you said about many being ignorant, but not all are, and I don't agree with the spirit of your post. I may not know everything, but I'm always researching, always reading, always writing.

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I would have to agree that to become a 33rd degree, you have to be part of the ruling blood lines of the the bible, church, governments and secret societies. After all, there are still a ruling elite who manage the affairs and destiny of their subjects, you and I.
Well last year there was like 400 Masons invited to become 33rd degree Masons. That's just in one year in the Southern Jurisdiction, that doesn't count the other Supreme Councils around the world. One's bloodline doesn't mean one will or will not be honored with the 33rd degree.

I don't know why so many focus on the Scottish Rite. I'm a member in both, but I've found the York Rite much more interesting and fulfilling. This isn't a bash, but my personal preference is in the York Rite which if you count all the invitational bodies (and invitational degrees within those bodies) there are far more degrees in the York Rite.

Plus outside of America there is more than just the two main rites. The Baldwin Rite, Swedish Rite, the French Rite, the Rectified Scottish Rite*, and the list goes on. Some are recognized, some are not.
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Old 08-02-2013, 10:44 PM   #44
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Arrow Y

Anyone got a sleeping bag for this thread...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ggidZ-kwX0

I Still reckon there should bee a Yawn Icon ...

You would be better off in the 3hit 3hat room

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Old 08-02-2013, 10:45 PM   #45
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Here is my depiction of the bodies in Freemasonry:



It doesn't necessarily show the degrees conferred in the York Rite and the Scottish Rite set-up is based on the Southern Jurisdiction set-up which is different from other jurisdictions.

I'm trying to make a power point presentation that breaks down the set-up, hierarchy, and degree structure for each body, but with writing a book, going to school, working, and Masons my time is short.
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Old 08-02-2013, 10:50 PM   #46
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Lightbulb Rooc

WhaT are you the in,the Royal order of Clowns

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Old 08-02-2013, 11:03 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by pr0fanus View Post
The error in your mode of thinking is that you seem to assume that if there could be a secret body within Freemasonry, you'll go a head and assume that there is. Well, there could be a race of space monkeys living on the dark side of the Moon. Is there any reason to assume that there is?
I make no such assumption. I know that it's logically impossible to prove the non-existence of something, so to watch these guys flounder around, claiming that they can do this, is amusing to me, and destroys their credibility in the eyes of anyone reading this thread.

I have no intent to declare that such a secret body exists - I only wanted to find out if the people here who claim to be Masons are honest. Now I have narrowed things down: they are either lying, incapable of rational thought, or not Masons.

To use your analogy: there could be a race of space monkeys living on the dark side of the Moon. I'm not claiming there is, but if someone said that they were absolutely, 100% sure that there were not, and could not tell me how they knew this, I would know I was dealing with a liar.
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Old 08-02-2013, 11:29 PM   #48
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The ones I know are old boys bent on golfing and big dinners mostly.
They couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery let alone world domination but as someone else said on here it's the higher degree sorts who are up to no good.
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Old 08-02-2013, 11:33 PM   #49
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Lightbulb 3lown 3haze

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http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showp...3&postcount=69

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Old 09-02-2013, 12:56 AM   #50
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WhaT are you the in,the Royal order of Clowns
Not a clown guy.

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Originally Posted by pyrrhonist View Post
Now I have narrowed things down: they are either lying, incapable of rational thought, or not Masons.
I'm not lying, I'm very rational, and I'm a Mason. I just don't accept your line of reasoning as to a "secret group."

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...but as someone else said on here it's the higher degree sorts who are up to no good.
Not really.
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Old 09-02-2013, 01:16 AM   #51
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I'm not lying, I'm very rational, and I'm a Mason. I just don't accept your line of reasoning as to a "secret group."
I think it's obvious to all now that part of your brain is malfunctioning.

I'm not arguing for a "secret group." I'm asking how it can be known that there isn't one.

None of you have answered that question, and fall back this pretence that I'm accusing you of something, and demand proof.

I don't need any proof because I'm not making an accusation.
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Old 09-02-2013, 01:35 AM   #52
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@pyrrhonist - any "secret group" is probably outside the 33 degrees that the public & majority of masons know about. Perhaps it's not part of Freemasonry at all, but rather separate groups that merely use freemasonry as a type of recruiting ground or school from which to expose potential candidates to the secret history & philosophy..?
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Old 09-02-2013, 01:51 AM   #53
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Exclamation Thriller Thread

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIuXphuCHck

Can anyone Join this Thrilling debate...

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Old 09-02-2013, 02:49 AM   #54
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@pyrrhonist - any "secret group" is probably outside the 33 degrees that the public & majority of masons know about. Perhaps it's not part of Freemasonry at all, but rather separate groups that merely use freemasonry as a type of recruiting ground or school from which to expose potential candidates to the secret history & philosophy..?
Thanks for your post, if you have any more to share I'd be keen to know it.

However, what you are proposing is not mutually exclusive with the idea that there are secret groups within Freemasonry. There could be secret groups both inside and outside the fraternity, in the same way that there are both intestinal and skin parasites on a cow.
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Old 09-02-2013, 03:15 AM   #55
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Don't Take Too long To Reply NoW ...
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The show follows a group of people, called the "Sliders", as they travel ("sliding") between different Earths in parallel universes via a wormhole-like "vortex", hoping to return safely to their original Earth Prime...

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Old 09-02-2013, 03:30 AM   #56
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Lightbulb TwinSkulls

If you get Weary of this Thread you can always ReflecT on The Other One ..

At birth, the human skull is made up of 44 separate bony elements. As growth occurs, many of these bony elements gradually fuse together into solid bone (for example, the frontal bone). The bones of the roof of the skull are initially separated by regions of dense connective tissue called "fontanels"...

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showt...=228894&page=3.. a personal reflection of a 32nd degree...
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showt...111364&page=15...Place of the Numbskulls..
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showp...postcount=1312..April – Pope Clement V forcibly disbands the Knights Templar. This is following years of persecution of the Knights Templar, initially started on Friday, October 13th, 1307 in collusion with King Philip "the fair" Le Bel of France...

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Old 09-02-2013, 03:35 AM   #57
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I think it's obvious to all now that part of your brain is malfunctioning.
If you say so.

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@pyrrhonist - any "secret group" is probably outside the 33 degrees that the public & majority of masons know about.
There's more to Freemasonry than the Scottish Rite. The Scottish Rite is just one branch and is not the central authority over Freemasonry.
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Old 09-02-2013, 08:20 AM   #58
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I make no such assumption. I know that it's logically impossible to prove the non-existence of something, so to watch these guys flounder around, claiming that they can do this, is amusing to me, and destroys their credibility in the eyes of anyone reading this thread.

I have no intent to declare that such a secret body exists - I only wanted to find out if the people here who claim to be Masons are honest. Now I have narrowed things down: they are either lying, incapable of rational thought, or not Masons.

To use your analogy: there could be a race of space monkeys living on the dark side of the Moon. I'm not claiming there is, but if someone said that they were absolutely, 100% sure that there were not, and could not tell me how they knew this, I would know I was dealing with a liar.
Right, and here's when practicality comes in. We don't really know the answer of any question starting with "Is there...", but we still have to answer those questions every once in a while. Of course, we could just as well begin that answer with "I believe...", but that gets awkward really fast. So should one believe that there is a secret body in Freemasonry? I think the rational position in questions such as this is to not believe until evidence is presented.
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Old 09-02-2013, 02:37 PM   #59
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And this is the reason I keep coming to this forum. I learn so much about my Freemasonry from experts here on this forum. No matter that they aren't Mason's...
Thank you so much for taking the time to say these kind words. Peace, love and light be with you!
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Old 09-02-2013, 02:48 PM   #60
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Right, and here's when practicality comes in. We don't really know the answer of any question starting with "Is there...", but we still have to answer those questions every once in a while. Of course, we could just as well begin that answer with "I believe...", but that gets awkward really fast. So should one believe that there is a secret body in Freemasonry? I think the rational position in questions such as this is to not believe until evidence is presented.
I think the rational position is to not take a position. Anyone who does take one is deluding themselves into believing something they cannot know.
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