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Old 14-10-2011, 01:54 PM   #21
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Perhaps someone may correct me on this but one thing that sprung into my mind was how will this bank sustain %1000 interest rates on it's customers accounts against %0 interest rates on it's loans?

Perhaps I missed something?
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Old 14-10-2011, 02:40 PM   #22
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In the video in the OP Hayes explains that when a customer gives 100 GBP to the lawful bank the lawful bank will issue £1000 worth of credit in the lawful bank's currency to that customer. He says that the cash that the customer desposits will be "retired". WTF does "retired" mean? Imagine one million people depositing 100 GBP each. Where does that money go? What if at a later date those people decide they want their money back?
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Old 14-10-2011, 02:47 PM   #23
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As I mentioned in an earlier post, I will come back to this properly when I have more time. However, on the scam point, given that:

- Hayes does not appear to have a consumer credit licence
- He doesn't appear to have any financial services authorisation,

the "lawful" bit is undoubtedly dubious, therefore this does seem to be a scam.

That aside and assuming that he has the best of intentions, it is impossible to see how this bank can actually finance transactions to anyone except other customers of the bank because only customers of the bank will use "TAMS". It's like the alternative currency scheme used in Lewes, except at least that one was properly authorised, managed and lawful. All well and good provided you're a member of the scheme, but a total chocolate teacup for dealings with the wider world.

Then you come to the fact that it's impossible to see how the "lawful" bank will stay afloat anyway when it's not charging interest for the provision of financial services. Presumably the idea is to charge a small arrangement fee or something. I'm looking forward to Roger explaining how that is going to be enough to keep his head above water. For example, let's say the bank lends £250,000 of its depositers' money (and think about that too, from the depositers' perspective, which leads to another issue.....) so that one "TAMS" member can buy a house and let's say they charge £100 for the service as an arrangement fee. Hell, lets even make it crazy expensive and call it £1000. So that's £251,000 that the customer has to pay back, presumably over 25 years. So Roger's going to get in £836.67 per month for 300 months after £250,000 has gone out the door and he's not generating income, except arrangement fees, from other sources. Meanwhile he will also be putting up bonds in place of car insurance, so that could be, say, a £10 million bond for one customer in order to cover situations like catastrophic brain injuries caused by a customer having a car accident. Blimey, that's an absolutely eye-wateringly huge liability and we're only two transactions into his banking scheme. The whole thing is already insolvent at this point.

At this rate - and OH THE IRONY - Hayes is going to need massive deposits from the deepest of pockets, eg the Rothschilds(!!!) in order to meet the enormous liabilities that he's taking on.

So, it would appear that the Lawful Bank is unlawful and the business model is frighteningly off kilter. Anyway, I'll keep an open mind and watch the video later.

To be fair to Roger, maybe he has the best of intentions but boy-oh-boy is this badly thought through.

Perhaps his next idea will be to create nuclear fusion and boundless free energy using a Meccano set and a ball of garden twine.


Last edited by micklemus; 14-10-2011 at 03:47 PM.
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Old 14-10-2011, 03:22 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rumpelstilzchen View Post
In the video in the OP Hayes explains that when a customer gives 100 GBP to the lawful bank the lawful bank will issue £1000 worth of credit in the lawful bank's currency to that customer. He says that the cash that the customer desposits will be "retired". WTF does "retired" mean? Imagine one million people depositing 100 GBP each. Where does that money go? What if at a later date those people decide they want their money back?
Did he really say that?! Oh, I'm REALLY looking forward to watching the video later!

So fractional reserve banking is wrong and evil and the Rothschilds are the spawn of Satan etc etc, but, ahem, it's OK if Roger does it?! Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!! That is really funny!

Don't anyone think about a run on the bank either! Maybe Roger will have a private "TAMS" army to scare people off if they decide to get their cash back and put it under their mattresses.

Talk about reinventing the wheel, but badly. "Take the alloys off your car mate, I've got these cracking cart wheels to replace them." *















* Just go with this analogy, please. I happen to think that the current banking system is crap but it's positively hysterical that we're being asked to replace it with the retrograde step that is the (un)Lawful Bank.
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Old 14-10-2011, 03:35 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by micklemus View Post
Did he really say that?! Oh, I'm REALLY looking forward to watching the video later!
He does.
Now, apart from the obvious question which is where does this "retired" money end up, it begs another question: If the money is to be "retired" why does the lawful bank ask for it before giving you credit?

Quote:
So fractional reserve banking is wrong and evil and the Rothschilds are the spawn of Satan etc etc, but, ahem, it's OK if Roger does it?! Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!! That is really funny!
He does describe the lawful bank as one that uses the fractional reserve system. And yes it appears the lawful bank intends to create "money" out of thin air.
Quote:
Don't anyone think about a run on the bank either! Maybe Roger will have a private "TAMS" army to scare people off if they decide to get their cash back and put it under their mattresses.
The cash will be "retired" remember.
Storing one hundred million pounds in cash will take some doing.

Quote:
Talk about reinventing the wheel, but badly. "Take the alloys off your car mate, I've got these cracking cart wheels to replace them." *
Three wheels on my waggon springs to mind.

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Old 14-10-2011, 03:40 PM   #26
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Hmmm, yes, the "retired" cash goes where indeed?

Is Roger on this forum? Can he answer directly?

I did hear a rumour that he was made bankrupt as well. I don't know if that's correct though.
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Old 14-10-2011, 03:41 PM   #27
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Three wheels on my waggon springs to mind.
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Old 14-10-2011, 03:44 PM   #28
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This is better than Eastenders watching, I love it
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Old 14-10-2011, 03:55 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by micklemus View Post

I did hear a rumour that he was made bankrupt as well. I don't know if that's correct though.
This should answer that question:

http://www.insolvencydirect.bis.gov....067&CaseType=B
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Old 14-10-2011, 03:56 PM   #30
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the obvious question which is where does this "retired" money end up
Probably in his pocket......
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Old 14-10-2011, 04:00 PM   #31
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Cheers. Maybe someone should drop RSM Tenon a line. If he's promoting a scheme to bring in lots of money (initially anyway) then they need to know about it.

I'm sure Roger's told them though.
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Old 14-10-2011, 04:03 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by micklemus View Post
Cheers. Maybe someone should drop RSM Tenon a line. If he's promoting a scheme to bring in lots of money (initially anyway) then they need to know about it.

I'm sure Roger's told them though.
In the video he does say that he isn't running it. He says that some other people are doing that.
A story I've heard a few times before when people have been covering their backs, but I'm sure Roger is telling the truth.

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Old 14-10-2011, 09:50 PM   #33
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This is a great idea
Quote:
A positive credit system – for every £1 of cash deposited, each member creates £10 credit in their account. This credit (created by the system) on the back of the cash deposited is the property of the member and thus not a debt to the member. This will provided streams of credit to the system – and not debt.
So deposit £1 and create £10 in your account, borrow 100 grand and then deposit 10 grand back into your account creating 100 grand and as such pay off the loan.

90 grand clear profit.

I cant wait for it to go live.
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Old 14-10-2011, 10:02 PM   #34
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This is a great idea


So deposit £1 and create £10 in your account, borrow 100 grand and then deposit 10 grand back into your account creating 100 grand and as such pay off the loan.

90 grand clear profit.

I cant wait for it to go live.
Have you watched the whole video?
It is obvious that Roger Hayes does not know his arse from his elbow.
He says that once people have deposited £100 and have received £1000 credit and then used that credit to pay off their utilty bills, the next £100 they obtain they will deposit that with the lawful bank in order to receive another £1000 credit.
If people are so stupid to fall for this bullshit they deserve everything they get.

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Old 14-10-2011, 10:03 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by bertieb View Post
This is a great idea


So deposit £1 and create £10 in your account, borrow 100 grand and then deposit 10 grand back into your account creating 100 grand and as such pay off the loan.

90 grand clear profit.

I cant wait for it to go live.
That's what doesn't make sense.....

It reminds me of a scam that died out in a game I play, someone posts a message saying send me any ammount of money and I will send you double in return.
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Old 14-10-2011, 10:15 PM   #36
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Yes, it's a bit like, " if you tell one person a week and they tell one person a week an each of those people tell one person a week, etc, etc in three months the entire population of the world will be a member."

MLM/Network Marketing at its very worst.
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Old 14-10-2011, 10:27 PM   #37
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This is better than Eastenders watching, I love it
It is isn't it?
Even the Mitchell brothers couldn't have dreamed up a scam such as the lawful bank.
A nice little earner.
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Old 14-10-2011, 10:33 PM   #38
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was there not talk about a 10 quid to join when it goes critical?

also something about a kind of insurance before the bank gets going, is this how they are going to get funds early on?

also i think a lot of the replies have not listened to the video properly when u deposit lets say 100 quid then u have 1000 of their currancy in your account, if u draw this and use it this is where the money comes from as the bank is allowed to make it up, just like what banks do now but they keep it amd loan it out and make interest on it and mr bank manger scims the cream

i also like the idea of brances and the way the TAMS system works overall


WE DO SERIOUSLY NEED a new system, maybe this one can be improved if people see holes in it


i might be replying to a brick wall tho after the last few pages
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Old 14-10-2011, 10:33 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by undeadcreature View Post
That's what doesn't make sense.....

It reminds me of a scam that died out in a game I play, someone posts a message saying send me any ammount of money and I will send you double in return.
hahah

EVE online by any chance?


what does not make sense it seems is your understanding of the TAMS system and fractional reserve banking
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Old 14-10-2011, 10:33 PM   #40
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Fookin hell I'm torn between deciding whether this thing is just plain stupid or a daft scheme as per Bertieb's post. From what I've seen I'm not convinced that the guys behind (un)Lawful Bank have the brains to get a scam off the ground so I'm putting my money on stupid.

Thanks for the sticky guys!
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