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Old 23-01-2011, 08:15 AM   #1
luciferhorus
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Default Debunking Noah's Ark. The Flood. Science & Myth.

The Deluges (plural. lit. "to wash down") & Noah's Ark: Science & Mythology.

Lucifer 2011.
Blasphemy, Heresy, War, Revolution.


"Many great deluges have taken place during the nine thousand years" since Athens and Atlantis were preeminent. Destruction by fire and other catastrophes was also common. In these floods, water rose from below, destroying city dwellers but not mountain people. The floods, especially the third great flood before Deucalion, washed away most of Athens' fertile soil. [Plato, "Timaeus" 22, "Critias" 111-112]

First of all let us establish a list of cultures with Flood Myths. By the term "Myth" I do not mean to imply that such floods never happened; I simply mean that in some of these cultures, reports of flooding are described in mythological language.

In one of these flood myths, described in the Book of Genesis, there is also the rather incredulous story of Noah's ark, and while many of the details of the story are no more believable than the myth of Santa Claus, it does not necessarily follow that flooding did not occur in the ancient world.

Unfortunately our world is full of Biblical fanatics, many of whom who could not care less about science; on the contrary they are only concerned with proving certain truths regarding their primitive holy book.

I don't think that there are any informed "scientists" whom I know of who would dispute the "established fact" that there was global flooding at the end of the last ice age. Further the evidence of flooding does not in any way substantiate the various ancient myths regarding what transpired during such a period, such as the myth of Noah's ark.

"Because of the difficulties with both defining and tallying the total numbers of different species in the world, it is estimated that there are anywhere between 2 and 100 million different species."

"There are about 1,250,000 identified species of animal. This includes 1,190,200 invertebrates, among them 950,000 insects, 70,000 mollusks, 40,000 crustaceans, and 130,200 others. There are about 58,800 identified vertebrates........... 8,240 reptiles, 9,800 birds, and 5,416 mammals. As a comparison, almost 300,000 plant species are known.

Importantly, the numbers above do not account for species which have not yet been captured or described scientifically. Scientists estimate there may be as many as 10 - 30 million unidentified insect species, many of them living in the rainforest, and up to 1 million mite species"
http://www.wisegeek.com/how-many-spe...-are-there.htm

It seems that the reason for the 2 million or 100 million species approximation is simply because some species are really "sub species;" never the less, if one takes the myth of Noah's Ark seriously, one also has to consider that around 99.9% of all species which have lived on earth in the last 500 million years are now extinct.

Thus even if the mythical Noah forgot about all the "sub-species" he would still have to load up the approximately 2 million existing animal and insect species, plus another 2 billion extinct species (or possibly up to 10 trillion including sub species) including some very large and very dangerous dinosaurs, plus enough food to feed the animals (many of which would require fresh meat; thus even more animals) for a journey of almost 9 months, plus enough staff to feed them and remove their waste (The Ark contained only 7 people plus the 600 year old Noah).

Consider the following comment:

"One elephant consumes 800 pounds of food per day..and 75% of that food would be converted to waste on a daily basis. so, double that for the second elephant...that's 120 TONS of food for just the elephants ...and 80 tons of waste. One Ape consumes 400 to 600 pound per day....75% into waste. That's 30 tons each in just food. Then there are two giraffes, hippos, ...etc., and so on"
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081128172919AAFBwKX


The Ark van Johan replica of Noah's Ark in Holland.

Noah's Ark was allegedly 450 by 75 feet wide by about 45 feet high and made of Gopher wood (Teak in the Islamic myth). The Dutch replica of the Ark is only half the length of Noah's alleged Ark, and bear in mind that Dutch Biblical Creationist who built it essentially "cheated;" it is not at all a wooden hulled ark; it actually has a steel Hull and the timber hull is merely for show and it sits on a giant steel barge; further if he had built the entire hull with wood, it would have collapsed under it's own weight, and this is even without loading up to 2 billion species plus food supplies.

Above: a hilarious cartoon video regarding the impossibility of Noah's Ark.

As the cartoon above states, the Titanic, which was made of steel was 882 feet long, thus almost twice the length of Noah's 450 ft Ark and 92 feet wide compared with Noah's 75 feet wide Ark and 175 feet high, compared to the 45 feet high Ark, and yet the Titanic carried only 3547 people and enough provisions for 2 weeks.

Length limitations on wooden ships.

It is considered to be "impossible" in naval architecture to build a wooden boat the size of Noah's Ark. In the last couple of centuries some large wooden boats have been built (none as big as Noah's Ark) with metal bracings to stop the ship breaking up on the waves, however many have met tragic ends and suffered hull buckling; one of the largest ever wooden boats, Baron of Renfrew (1825) at just over 300 ft long broke apart on it's maiden voyage. It is generally considered folly to build a cargo ship with a timber hull longer than 300 ft, since it would not be sufficiently rigid from bow to stern to avoid breaking up on the ocean's waves, and certainly not with billions of animal and insect species on board.

Noah would further have had to stack his animals several miles high (the thought of this being totally ridiculous); he not only have destabilised the top heavy ship, making it instantly keel over, it would also simply have sunk under the weight long before he managed to stack the animals.

The Myth of Noah's Ark: a possible theoretical explanation.

Even the High Priest of Dawinian evolution, Richard Dawkins admits the "possibility" that life on earth "may" have been the product of genetic experimentation by intelligent and scientifically advanced beings (i.e, human like beings, not supernatural gods).

If we ignore the primitive and impossible details of the myth of Noah, it may well be that in the far distant past, that after ancient cataclysms, that the earth was "seeded" with life forms collected from other galaxies.

It may well be that in future, that the "Jurrasic Park" fiction could become a reality and that ancient species could be rebirthed from the DNA of pre-historic animals; it is certainly not beyond the limits of credibility, and it may well have been possible for advanced civilisations to do so in the past, and to bring to earth the genetic map of numerous species and rebirth them on earth.

Flood Myths

First of all it need to be established that no credible scientist that I know of disputes the fact that A: there "have" been periods of mass extinctions, and B: the earth has certainly been subjected to global flooding, such as at the end of the last ice age where water levels rose considerably.

There are 100's of cases of underwater temples and architecture, 100's of feet below sea level which testifies to this. One of the most astonishing recent discoveries is what appears to be deep-sea structures including pyramids and roads, lying in 2,200 feet (700 metres) of water off the coast of Cuba.

"It is true that down there at heart of the sea, are structures that sometimes have dimensions of several hundreds meters that are unusual, for which we we do not have a simple, direct explanation... "

"...A clear explanation does not exist of how these structures formed by natural means. Offered this point of view as geologist, I admit the possibility that it could be a question of not natural, that is to say structures, created by man, or some intelligent entity..."


- Manuel Iturralde of the National Museum of Natural History of the Havana, considered to be the foremost geologist of Cuba.
http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=86402

Here are a list of cultures with "Flood Myths:"


"http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/flood-myths.html
"•Europe
◦Greek, Arcadian, Samothrace ◦Roman ◦Scandinavian, German ◦Celtic, Welsh ◦Lithuanian, Transylvanian Gypsy ◦Turkey •Near East
◦Sumerian ◦Egypt, Babylonian, Assyrian, Chaldean, Hebrew, Islamic ◦Persian, Zoroastrian •Africa
◦Cameroon ◦Masai (East Africa), Komililo Nandi, Kwaya (Lake Victoria) ◦Southwest Tanzania, Pygmy, Ababua (northern Zaire), Kikuyu (Kenya), Bakongo (west Zaire), Bachokwe? (southern Zaire), Lower Congo, Basonge, Bena-Lulua (Congo River, southeast Zaire)
◦Yoruba (southwest Nigeria), Efik-Ibibio (Nigeria), Ekoi (Nigeria) ◦Mandingo (Ivory Coast) •Asia
◦Vogul ◦Samoyed (north Siberia) ◦Yenisey-Ostyak (north central Siberia), Kamchadale (northeast Siberia) ◦Altaic (central Asia), Tuvinian (Soyot) (north of Mongolia)
◦Mongolia, Buryat (eastern Siberia) ◦Sagaiye (eastern Siberia) ◦Russian ◦Hindu, Bhil (central India), Kamar (Raipur District, Central India), Assam ◦Tamil (southern India) ◦Lepcha (Sikkim), Tibet, Singpho (Assam), Lushai (Assam), Lisu (northwest Yunnan, China), Lolo (southwestern China), Jino (southern Yunnan, China), Karen (Burma), Chingpaw (Upper Burma) ◦China ◦Korea ◦Munda (north-central India), Santal (Bengal), Ho (southwestern Bengal) ◦Bahnar (Cochin China), Kammu (northern Thailand) ◦Andaman Islands (Bay of Bengal) ◦Zhuang (China), Sui (southern Guizhou, China), Shan (Burma) ◦Tsuwo (Formosa interior), Bunun (Formosa interior), Ami (eastern Taiwan) ◦Benua-Jakun (Malay Peninsula), Kelantan (Malay Peninsula), Ifugao (Philippines), Kiangan Ifugao, Atá (Philippines), Mandaya (Philippines), Tinguian (Luzon, Philippines) ◦Batak (Sumatra), Nias (an island west of Sumatra), Engano (another island west of Sumatra), Dusun (British North Borneo), Dyak (Borneo), Ot-Danom (Dutch Borneo), Toradja (central Celebes), Alfoor (between Celebes and New Guinea), Rotti (southwest of Timor), Nage (Flores) •Australia
◦Arnhem Land (northern Northern Territory) ◦Maung (Goulburn Islands, Arnhem Land), Gunwinggu (northern Arnhem Land)
◦Gumaidj (Arnhem Land) ◦Manger (Arnhem Land) ◦Fitzroy River area (Western Australia) ◦Australian, Mount Elliot (coastal Queensland), Western Australia, Andingari (South Australia), Wiranggu (South Australia), Narrinyeri (South Australia), Victoria, Lake Tyres (Victoria), Kurnai (Gippsland, Victoria), southeast Australian ◦Maori (New Zealand) •Pacific Islands
◦Kabadi (New Guinea), Valman (northern New Guinea), Mamberao River (Irian Jaya), Samo-Kubo (western Papua New Guinea), Papua New Guinea ◦Palau Islands (Micronesia), western Carolines ◦New Hebrides, Lifou (one of the Loyalty Islands), Fiji ◦Samoa, Nanumanga (Tuvalu, South Pacific), Mangaia (Cook Islands), Rakaanga (Cook Islands), Raiatea (Leeward Group, French Polynesia), Tahiti, Hawaii •North America
◦Innuit, Eskimo (Orowignarak, Alaska), Norton Sound Eskimo, Central Eskimo, Tchiglit Eskimo (Arctic Ocean), Herschel Island Eskimo, Netsilik Eskimo, Greenlander ◦Tlingit (southern Alaska coast), Hareskin (Alaska), Tinneh (Alaska and south), Loucheux (Dindjie) (Alaska), Dogrib and Slave (Tinneh tribes), Kaska (northern inland British Columbia), Thompson Indians (British Columbia), Sarcee (Alberta), Tsetsaut ◦Haida (Queen Charlotte Is., British Columbia), Tsimshian (British Columbia) ◦Kwakiutl (British Columbia) ◦Kootenay (southeast British Columbia), Squamish (British Columbia), Bella Coola (British Columbia), Lillooet (Green River, British Columbia), Makah (Cape Flattery, Washington), Klallam (northwest Washington), Skokomish (Washington), Skagit (Washington), Quillayute (Washington), Nisqually (Washington), Twana (Puget Sound, Washington), Kathlamet ◦Cascade Mountains ◦Spokana, Nez Perce, Cayuse (eastern Washington), Yakima (Washington), Warm Springs (Oregon), Joshua (southern Oregon), Smith River (northern California coast), Wintu (north central California), Maidu (central California), Northern Miwok (central California), Tuleyome Miwok (near Clear Lake, California), Olamentko Miwok (Bodega Bay, California) Ohlone (San Francisco to Monterey, California) ◦Kato (Mendocino County, California) ◦Shasta (northern California interior), Pomo (north central California), Salinan (California), Yuma (western Arizona, southern California), Havasupai (lower Colorado River) ◦Ashochimi (California) ◦Yurok (north California coast), Blackfoot (Alberta and Montana), Cree (Canada), Timagami Ojibway (Canada), Chippewa (Ontario, Minnesota, Wisconsin), Ottawa, Menomini (Wisconsin-Michigan border), Cheyenne (Minnesota), Yellowstone, Montagnais (northern Gulf of St. Lawrence), Micmac (eastern Maritime Canada), Algonquin (upper Ottowa River), Lenape (Delaware) (Delaware to New York) ◦Cherokee (Great Lakes area; eastern Tennessee) ◦Mandan (North Dakota), Lakota ◦Choctaw (Mississippi), Natchez (Lower Mississippi) ◦Chitimacha (Southern Louisiana) ◦Caddo (Oklahoma, Arkansas), Pawnee (Nebraska) ◦Navajo (Four Corners area), Jicarilla Apache (northeastern New Mexico) ◦Sia (northeast Arizona) ◦Acagchemem (near San Juan Capistrano, California), Luiseño (Southern California), Pima (southwest Arizona), Papago (Arizona), Hopi (northeast Arizona), Zuni (New Mexico) •Central America
◦Tarascan (northern Michoacan, Mexico), Michoacan (Mexico) ◦Yaqui (Sonoran, Northern Mexico), Tarahumara (Northern Mexico), Huichol (western Mexico), Cora (east of the Huichols), Tepecano (southeast of the Huichols), Tepehua (eastern Mexico), Toltec (Mexico), Nahua (central Mexico), Tlaxcalan (central Mexico) ◦Tlapanec (south central Mexico), Mixtec (northern Oaxaca, Mexico), Zapotec (Oaxaca, southern Mexico), Trique (Oaxaca, southern Mexico) ◦Totonac (eastern Mexico) ◦Chol (southern Mexico), Tzeltal (Chiapas, southern Mexico), Quiché (Guatemala), Maya (southern Mexico and Guatemala) ◦Popoluca (Veracruz, Mexico) ◦Nicaragua, Panama ◦Carib (Antilles) •South America
◦Acawai (Orinoco), Arekuna (Guyana), Makiritare (Venezuela), Macusi (British Guyana) ◦Muysca (Colombia), Yaruro (southern Venezuela) ◦Yanomamö (southern Venezuela) ◦Tamanaque (Orinoco), Arawak (Guyana), Pamary, Abedery, and Kataushy (Purus R., Brazil), Ipurina (Upper Amazon) ◦Jivaro (eastern Ecuador), Shuar (Andes) ◦Murato (eastern Ecuador) ◦Cañari (Quito, Ecuador) ◦Guanca and Chiquito (Peru) ◦Ancasmarca (near Cuzco, Peru), Canelos Quechua, Quechua, Inca (Peru), Colla (high Andes) ◦Chiriguano (southeast Bolivia) ◦Chorote (Eastern Paraguay) ◦Eastern Brazil (Rio de Janiero region), Eastern Brazil (Cape Frio region), Caraya (Araguaia River, central Brazil), Coroado (south Brazil) ◦Araucania (coastal Chile) ◦Toba (northern Argentina) ◦Selk'nam (southern tip of Argentina) ◦Yamana (Tierra del Fuego) •"


This begs the question, since we have scientific evidence for global flooding, does this mean that all these myths are true, particularly as some myths have differing details and rather unbelievable stories surrounding them? Well of course it does not; it merely establishes through mythology what we already know scientifically, that there has been global flooding.

The Deluge of the Ice Man Cometh. Saturn's Ice.

The "ice" theory is a very controversial theory. I present it as a scientific theory and not as "fact," however it is certainly scientifically possible.



Note that the image above is not to scale, the distance between the planets has been compacted to fit into an image.


Above: Saturn.

"Saturn has nine rings, consisting mostly of ice particles with a smaller amount of rocky debris and dust. Sixty-two known moons orbit the planet; fifty-three are officially named. This is not counting hundreds of "moonlets" within the rings. Titan, Saturn's largest and the Solar System's second largest moon (after Jupiter's Ganymede), is larger than the planet Mercury."
Source: Wikipedia: Saturn

Now consider the fact that Saturn is estimated to have 35 trillion-trillion tons of ice in orbit around it, and that it's magnetic field is around 600 times stronger than the Earth's

Saturn: the Great Saviour.

The question is begged, where did Saturn's 62 Moons and it's trillions of tons of ice and space debris come from? There are various theories regarding this, but the most obvious and probably answer seems to be that the ice, rocks, dust and Moons surrounding Saturn are simply "space debris" which have been pulled into Saturn's orbit.



Astronomers have identified 100's of masses further out in space beyond Pluto, some of them the size of small planets; however this does not mean that there are no larger planetary sized objects in the deep freeze of space beyond Pluto; it is simply not yet possible to be sure of the size of such objects; however, the freezing temperatures of outer space and the trillions of tons of "mostly" ice around Saturn make it entirely clear that their is, in all probability, still trillions of tons of "ice" in space beyond Pluto.

Our inner solar system is constantly being bombarded by space debris, and the countless craters on the surface of the Moon are ample evidence of this, including over 40 impact craters which are over 180 miles in diameter, some being over 4 kilometres deep; these were certainly not impacts of small fragments of debris.

By "Saturn the Saviour Planet," the term implies that if it's 62 Moons and it's trillions of tons of space debris had not been pulled into the gravity of Saturn, some that space debris could well have ended up in our inner solar system in the region of Earth.

Our outer planets form a protective barrier to some extent, but bear in mind also that Saturn's orbit around the sun takes 40 years and that it is not always there to protect us, since space debris can come from the opposite direction.

It is clear that our outer planets may protect us from the barrage of space debris but impact collisions on the Moon and the earth still occur, and have occured throughout the almost 5 billion year history of our planet.

The theory that "ice" could have hit the earth from outer space is not a bizarre conspiracy theory, it has entirely a scientific basis and it is not only possible that it has occurred in the past, but highly probable, given the trillions of tons of ice and space debris trapped around Saturn.

A common objection to this is that ice would have burned up in our atmosphere, however this objection would not seem to apply if we were hit by millions or billions of tons of ice simultaneously. Certainly some of this ice would be vaporised without question, but given sufficient quantities of ice, there would certainly be a deluge of rain and ice in our inner atmosphere.

The Van Halen Theory.

Again this is s very strange theory, but I present it only as a theory, since I have been unable to confirm the "science" behind it, and until proven I would suggest that it "may" simply be pseudo science. The theory derives from an publication I read many years ago which I no longer have.

It has been suggested that ice coming towards earth may have been magnetised by the Van Halen belt, and headed straight around the earth to our magnetic poles, explaining the vast mass of frozen fresh water at our polar regions.

Flash Frozen Animals
Further explain the existence of frozen animals found in ice in Northern regions which appear mysteriously to have been flash frozen in an instant and appear to be in standing positions and have fresh food in their mouths.

"It has been estimated that some ten million animals lay buried along the rivers of northern Siberia. Thousands of tusks formed a massive ivory trade for the master carvers of China, all from the remains of the frozen mammoths and mastodons of Siberia. The famous Beresovka mammoth first drew attention to the preserving properties of being quick-frozen when buttercups were found in its mouth and undigested food in its stomach. This was no gradual event--it had to be sudden!" http://atlantisonline.smfforfree2.co...hp?topic=457.0


World's in Collision.




Velikovsky's "World's in Collision" theory, despite the scientific inaccuracies in his work, is based upon the theory that at times in the history of our solar system, objects in distant orbit "invade" our local region and cause chaos, often being attracted to the gravity of other planets and colliding with them. A brief glimpse at the surface of the Moon and the 1000's of thousands of visible impact creators are a testimony to this.

I should point out that Velikovsky's academic background was in psychiatry, and not in astronomy or physics, and that his writings have largely been discredited by scientists as pseudo-science; since I must accept this judgement on many of Velikovsky's claims, I should point out that I am only referring to his basic theory, which is that the orbits of the planets have not always been as they are now, and that there are many other distant objects in our solar system which are attracted by the gravity of the sun, and that this may be the explanation for the widespread reports of global cataclysms, and in particular the Pleistocene Extinction of some approximately 12,000 years ago.

There are various explanations for the radical change in the past temperature of the earth; the most common is that the sun heats up an cools down; another is that the atmosphere of the earth changes, allowing more or less sunlight (or almost no sunlight in the case of a collision with a large object which have filled the atmosphere from the dust of it's collision), but a more radical explanation is that other "large" objects on a spherical orbit visit the local region of our solar system close to the sun, and that their magnetism affects all other planets and changes their distance to the sun; this is a rather radical view as this could not be caused by small objects, but only by a very large planetary sized object; this is further a theoretical view as there is no scientific or reliable evidence for this in recent history; however even 12,000 years ago is "recent" in terms of the age of our solar system, and of course we have no reliable means of knowing exactly what ocurred in our solar system that far back.

Imagine 10 small negative magnets (like planets) spinning around a large positive magnet (like our sun), and then imagine throwing another large negative magnet into the array; obviously it would affect the positions of all other magnets. Whether this has happened or not in our solar system with large objects is only theoretical, but if the object was large enough, it could certainly affect our orbit.

In conclusion.

We live in a chaotic solar system. Our planet has been subjected to natural disasters due to the chaos and space debris of our system. It is generally accepted that the extinction of the dinosaurs was probably caused by the impact of an mass from outer space which may have created a global dust storm.

The sun and Moon would have darkened and it may have seemed as if the stars had fallen from heaven; vegetation and then animals would die. This has nothing to do with the ramblings of prophets or the fanatics of the primitive tribalist deity of the ancient Israelites; it is simply a fact of our solar system that we are constantly being bombarded with space debris. How many times such disasters have come to the earth in our hundreds of millions of years of existence is unknown, however it "has" happened in the past, probably on many occasions, and it is almost without question that it will happen again, and again, and again, and it has nothing to do with the inane ramblings of the religious fanatics and their holy prophets.

To predict future disasters due to space debris is as certain as predicting that the son will rise again tomorrow.

Sun & Moon and Stars will fall from heaven (metaphorically speaking; it will at least seem that way).


Lux
Blasphemy, Heresy, War, Revolution, etc.
Fire, Plague and Poisoned Waters.

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NB. Disclaimer. I should point out that I am no more a professional scientist or astronomer than Velikovsky was; they are not my fields of academic speciality; I am limited to reading articles by other scientists. If any of the claims made in this essay can be established to be "pseudo-scientific" fact or "pseudo-scientific" theory, I will revise my positions accordingly.

Criticisms based on Biblical fanaticism and 6-Day Creationism are also welcome; I always like to give the religious fanatics the opportunity to prove how stupid they are.

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Ricky Gervais on Noah's Ark.

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Old 23-01-2011, 09:48 AM   #2
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None of the attempts to debunk the story of Noah's Ark that I have seen take into account the level of technology available at that time. It would be interesting to see whether or not the addition of a science far superior to ours could have an effect on the plausibility of the story.
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Old 23-01-2011, 10:10 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by nehorai View Post
None of the attempts to debunk the story of Noah's Ark that I have seen take into account the level of technology available at that time. It would be interesting to see whether or not the addition of a science far superior to ours could have an effect on the plausibility of the story.
Well since there are numerous contradictory Noah type stories, and I think it likely that these are just myths, but that they "may" possibly by myths based upon some actual ancient event.

The Torah is likely to have been written around 600 BC whereas the last major cataclysm was probably about 12,000 BC approximately, so it is unsurpising that the story is rather mythical and fictional. Generally in a world of illiterates, such stories were handed down orally and subjected to "Chinese Whispers" over many generations.

With regards to the "advanced" technology of the gods of the ancient world, that is certainly a possibility, but certainly not as described in the Noah tale with a wooden boat contaning millions of animals.

If the "Arc" was, for example, was a spacecraft containing the DNA of numerous species colected throughout the universe and which were seeded on earth after the occasional inevitable cataclysms, this is not beyond the bounds of scientific possibility, but it certainly negates the silly story of Noah and his wooden boat.

There are essentially four major theories regarding human origins 1: Biblical or "religious" Creationism; 2: Deistic Intelligent Design. 3: Evolution. 4: That the gods (our ancient ancestors) came to earth and seeded the earth with numerous species.

My own personal view is a mixture of 2, 3 & 4, whereas I consider option 1 to be about as likely as the existence of Santa Claus

With regards to option 4, which may be what you are partly suggesting; I think that in a universe of countless billions solar systems which, may well be around 20 billion years old, I think the view that intelligent life only developed on earth very recently (within the last quarter of a million years) is unlikely; I further think that the giant leap from more primitive hominoids to homo sapiens is much more likely to be explained by genetic engineering than by random mutation. There seems to me to be indications of genetic desgn; I have never been able to get my head around the fact that we are just random genetic mutations, despite having read numerous works by materialistic evolutionists such as Richard Dawkins, whom I otherwise respect and admire for his attacks on the disease of religion; religion seems to me to be a hinderance to human progression and is holding many people in the primitive psychological grip of our bronze age ancestors.



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Old 23-01-2011, 10:29 AM   #4
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None of the attempts to debunk the story of Noah's Ark that I have seen take into account the level of technology available at that time. It would be interesting to see whether or not the addition of a science far superior to ours could have an effect on the plausibility of the story.
Yes, maybe they were miniatuarised by a factor of 100x, and then resized after the flood waters dissipated? *


* just in case anyone had any doubts about my seriousness.

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Old 23-01-2011, 10:34 AM   #5
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Yes, maybe they were miniatuarised by a factor of 100x, and then resized after the flood waters dissipated? *


* just in case anyone had any doubts about my seriousness.
Some even better and equally hilarious ideas on:

A cartoon video regarding the impossibility of Noah's Ark.#

___________________

Addendum: Animal Facts.

A single Brontosaurus weighs 35 tons. Two Brontosaurus' would weigh 70 tons; they would have destroyed the Ark simply by walking on the wooden planks.
In addition to this the amount of food and fresh water to sustain them for 9 months would be many times their body weight.

Some Brontosaurus were up to 60 feet tall (the Ark was 45 feet high).

A single Ultrasaurus could have been up to 180 tons. This is 360 tons for two Ultrasaurus. Plus food and fresh water for 9 months.



There were around 1800 species of dinosaur; since pairs were required, that is 3600 animals.

And that is just the dinosaurs.



Fish. It is not specified whether there were fish on the ark, but if there were no fish on the ark, it has to be noted that mixing a quantity of fresh water with salt water, to raise the water levels above the highest mountain (currently 8000m above sea level) would destroy the eco-system for both salt water ocean fish and fresh water river fish.

Animal Sacrifice

Noah was a blood sacrifice cultist and a meat eater. When Noah lands his ark, he builds and altar for animal sacrifice cultism. Each time he sacrificed an animal to his primitive deity he wiped out an entire species; and then one must consider all the animals which he and his family members ates, however this would be trivial in comparison to the millions of meat eating animals and insects devouring each other.

Ice ages & Global Flooding

The European Project for Ice coring has a 3 kilometer ice core sample which shows the last 740,000 years of snowfall; they have identified that there were at least 8 separate ice ages in this period. That means 8 separate incidents of expected flooding when the ice melted. Since there were no human beings for much of this time, there is no reason for the Biblical god's wrath; flooding is a natural phenomenon which occurs at the end of periodic ice ages; ice ages which have probably occurred countless times over many millions of years, and will probably occurr numerous times in the future.

All the above arguments are presented in the following video:


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Old 25-11-2011, 06:52 PM   #6
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Lightbulb Noahs Ark

Maybe Noahs Ark was a Spaceship...

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Old 25-11-2011, 08:55 PM   #7
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Arrow Noah's Ark was a Spaceship


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The outer planets were thrown into disarray and Jupiter eventually crashed into a planet which orbited between the present Jupiter and Mars. The physicists said the remains of this planet became the asteroid belt and that part of Jupiter broke away to become what we now call Venus. As Venus, then a vast chunk of matter, was projected into space, it destroyed the atmosphere and life of Mars before it was caught by the Earth’s gravitational field, the study claimed. Venus made several orbits of the Earth before its momentum hurled it into its current position in the solar system. It was those orbits, the physicists said, that brought devastation and a tidal wave about 4,800 BC...

They believed, as Brian Desborough does, that before this time Mars orbited where the Earth is now and the Earth was much closer to the Sun. The brilliant light of Venus as it passed close to the Earth may have led to the idea of Lucifer, the ‘light bringer’. The most ancient Mesopotamian and Central American records do not include Venus in their planetary accounts, only later does it appear. There was an obsession with Venus in many cultures, with human sacrifices being made to it...

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Old 05-05-2012, 08:17 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by lightgiver View Post
Noah's Ark was a Spaceship
Given the probable estimated age of our universe (around 15 billion years) and the very recent arrival on earth of human beings (some quarter million years ago), one can wonder if there was intelligent life in our universe of billions of solar systems "prior" to a quarter million years ago and the arrival or our ancestors here, and of course it is certainly a possibility.



The idea that the planet earth was "seeded" with life collected from other planets and that the "gods" were simply genetic engineers, and that we "homo sapiens" are essentially the descendets of an alien race is certainly a possibility.



However "Noah's Ark" is not a story about a spacecraft; it is a story of a boat made of "wood" which carried all the animal species of the earth and which floated on water.



But perhaps I will be proven wrong and NASA will eventually start making spacecraft out of "wood."

Lux

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Old 05-05-2012, 12:09 PM   #9
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There are two major families of fruit fly, the Tephritidae and the Drosophilidae. The Tephritidae family alone has over 5000 different species of fruit fly categorized in almost 500 genera. Certain fruit flies are only found in certain areas. For example the Ceratitis capitata is native to sub-Saharan Africa and the Hawaiian Drosophilidae is found in Hawaii. Hawaiian Drosophilidae is a very diverse group with 559 described species, of which 12 are recognized as endangered by the US Fish and Wildlife. Some however are scavenger fruit flies in Hawaii and these include: Phoridae, Chloropidae, Lonchaeidae, Milichiidae, Neriidae, Otitidae, Psychodidae, Sphaeroceridae, Calliphoridae, Muscidae, and Sarcophagidae.

Did Noah travel to Hawaii? Did Noah collect each of the species of fruit fly? Did Noah collect species only native to certain far away areas? Or is the story of Noah a symbolic allegory of something entirely different?
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Old 05-05-2012, 12:42 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by exu156 View Post
There are two major families of fruit fly, the Tephritidae and the Drosophilidae. The Tephritidae family alone has over 5000 different species of fruit fly categorized in almost 500 genera. Certain fruit flies are only found in certain areas. For example the Ceratitis capitata is native to sub-Saharan Africa and the Hawaiian Drosophilidae is found in Hawaii. Hawaiian Drosophilidae is a very diverse group with 559 described species, of which 12 are recognized as endangered by the US Fish and Wildlife. Some however are scavenger fruit flies in Hawaii and these include: Phoridae, Chloropidae, Lonchaeidae, Milichiidae, Neriidae, Otitidae, Psychodidae, Sphaeroceridae, Calliphoridae, Muscidae, and Sarcophagidae.

Did Noah travel to Hawaii? Did Noah collect each of the species of fruit fly? Did Noah collect species only native to certain far away areas? Or is the story of Noah a symbolic allegory of something entirely different?
Since the vast majority of human history (our estimated quarter million years on this planet) is only recorded as "myths and legends" and since there are "so many" flood legends and there is actual widespread evidence of underwater structures on the ocean floor all over the world, it seems to me that one can scientifically assume that global flooding has happened in the past. Further there is now evidence that "ice ages" have happend not just once in recent history but on around half a dozen occassions in the past million years, which begs the question of what happened when all that ice melted?

If planetary orbits sometimes change due to the gravitational pull of other objects coming in to our inner solar system, then the end periods of ice ages may not have been gradual but sudden; suddenly our planet may have been pulled further away from the sun, and then suddenly pulled closer to the sun.

And then there is all that space debris, most of which seems to be "ice," and the existence of planets containing vast amounts of ice; and then it seems not improbable that earth was in the past "attacked" by torrents of space debris in the form of ice.

So global flooding yes.

Noah's ark? No.

Ancient astronauts (i.e., the gods) landing on earth and re-seeding the earth with life after periods of cataclysm? Yes possibly.

Lux
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Old 05-05-2012, 01:29 PM   #11
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Default I love the use of logic

Cool old threads, that are new to me!
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Old 05-05-2012, 01:58 PM   #12
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None of the attempts to debunk the story of Noah's Ark that I have seen take into account the level of technology available at that time. It would be interesting to see whether or not the addition of a science far superior to ours could have an effect on the plausibility of the story.
It's not science that is needed. It is magic and gullibility.


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Old 05-05-2012, 05:13 PM   #13
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None of the attempts to debunk the story of Noah's Ark that I have seen take into account the level of technology available at that time. It would be interesting to see whether or not the addition of a science far superior to ours could have an effect on the plausibility of the story.



At first I was wondering, "who is this that would say something exactly like I would??" Oh wait, it's me!

Anyways, ming, I think I can see where your faith lies. Funny it is then, that mainstream science and the "top scientists" have left so much history left in the dust for fear of the upheaval of their own theories!

Talk about magic and gullibility, Haha.

Perhaps you ought to take the "realize how little you know" advice from your own sig...

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