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Old 27-05-2013, 02:26 PM   #21
marlowe
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Get rid of the bankers and politicians, by whatever means necessary.
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Old 27-05-2013, 02:32 PM   #22
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Anyone who believes Europe or USA will have another boom period is deluded.

Unless there's a world war, then it could be possible.


So much work is already being done by machine or cheap labor abroad which makes another boom impossible..
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Old 27-05-2013, 06:06 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by motleyhoo View Post
You do realize those numbers are complete fiction right? The real GDP in the US right now is -2% and it isn't getting any better.

If you made $20K per year and you borrowed another $20K does that mean you have an income of $40K?? That's the kind of math they're using to come up with these bogus numbers and they have been doing it for years. Our real GDP when you subtract out the money the govt has been borrowing to fund their deficits is -2%. And if you subtracted out the $85 billion being printed up every month by the Feds it would be even less.

Take the unemployment number. Every time we get a new President they change the formula to make the new President's phony economic policy look good. When the Clinton White House said in 1992 that unemployment was 6% do you think that number was accurate? If we actually used the 1992 formula today unemployment would be over 12%. If we used the formula Reagan used it would be over 17%. If we used the formula that was being used in the 60's it would be over 20%.

All the govt's numbers are bogus and they are hiding the truth, which is we are a nation that is in long term economic decline and there is nothing they can do about it because they have let the system be taken over by criminals. The decline is being hidden by huge deficits and endless QE.
+1000

Everything we are being told about the economy, and our wars, and pretty much everything else, is a lie. They are telling us these lies so that we don't understand what is really going on. If we did, we would put most of our politicians, most of our bankers, and most of our media, in jail, before executing them for treason and other crimes. It would make the French Revolution look like a child's party.

Last edited by Fishin; 27-05-2013 at 06:23 PM.
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Old 27-05-2013, 06:18 PM   #24
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I'm aware of all this but i don't worry about it because i believe America will just never pay the debt back because that is original the intention. For instance who would allow a country to have a debt of 17 billion dollars nonetheless 17 trillion dollars.

Do you understand what i'm saying 17 trillion dollars in debt is basically not even real. It's obviously never going to be paid back. It was just a way to build up American infrastructure and then a military to protect that infrastructure. It's never going to be paid back because it was never intended to be. 17 trillion dollars is just pure fiction because no one would ever let a nation get that far into debt in the first place. If the US GDP is #1 in the world at 15 trillion with a population of 300 million than how could China loan America money if their GDP is #2 in the world at 7 trillion with a population of 1.4 billion. That's just impossible because why would China loan money to America when they know America spends that money on the military industrial complex. So if China was to ask for that money back the US would just say sorry we spent all that money on jets and missiles to attack you with.

Another thing is welfare & food stamps. If America actually had a debt of 17 trillion dollars there wouldn't be any money for 900 military bases in 130 countries and nobody would be on welfare or food stamps. If the US was really broke there would be no money for war, no money to give to countries in the middle east, no money to give people health care. How can China loan the US money when the US gives money to Egypt, Israel, Pakistan ect. All this debt is just a bunch of thin air what's not to see about that.
You are absolutely correct. It is not real. But there is no political will to disown the debt. It will not be done. Even if it were, there would be serious economic problems as a result. The basic problem at thsi point is that we are screwed if we recognize the debt and screwed if we disown the debt. the most likely result will be that the dollar will hyperinflated until debts become insignificant. We are already on that path.

The US is completely broke. The US pays for everything by printing money it does not have (the Fed does this and charges the US for the privilege). This devalues the US dollar and makes hyperinflation inevitable.

China loans the US money to keep the US economy afloat so the US can buy Chinese goods, but China is slowly getting rid of its US debt. Eventually China will get burned at least a little, but they don't care. At that point the dollar will be destroyed and to the Chinese that's a fair trade-off. China is already making deals worldwide to arrange for trade in non dollar currencies. The eventually see the yuan taking the place of the dollar. Unlike teh US, China looks 10-20 years into the future when making deecsions whereas the US only looks at the next election.

This is an older set of videos (late 2012) that still explain in great detail why economic collapse is inevitable:

The Economy Is Going To Implode and you deserve to understand why -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dFVFJ0iRRA
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Old 27-05-2013, 06:20 PM   #25
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You are 100% right on this, and it is Western worldwide plus China because they need the West to trade with.

The only question now is "Which country will explode at the bottom first?"
That is the interesting question. Last year I would have guessed a European country. Today I am betting on Japan.
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Old 27-05-2013, 06:21 PM   #26
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It is such a shame - the beautiful Mediterranean brought to its knees already...

I'm pretty sure "Be Prepared" is the only way forward for us all and the only sane thing to be thinking right now!

Its my opinion that those in power are banking on the idea that we will play there game until they see fit and all of a sudden this stuff will hit us out the blue like a two-way mirror breaking.

After a little period of manipulated straight from Hollywood apocalyptic chaos i guess they belive we will open our arms and beg for their tyranny! Like cubs waiting by the corpse of their mother, for comfort that will never come.

We can only hope that when the west disintegrates that we still have inside of us the spirits of adventurers and pioneers - to forge new communities and leave the tptb in that sordid little cess-pit behind, but your right we have to remember to be fully aware and prepared for whats to come before hand- nights in the wilderness are long
Absolutely - "all of a sudden this stuff will hit us out the blue like a two-way mirror breaking."
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Old 27-05-2013, 06:22 PM   #27
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Welcome to the jungle, good beginning post, like the Welsh, they prepared for when the English cometh, and their language is still pure and intact, those who did not prepare were assimilated.

To prepare is to see longevity into the future, to fail is not to prepare, I see only a good future for all those who have gained our knowledge over the years.
Very true. Unfortunately most in the US don't look beyond tomorrow.
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Old 27-05-2013, 06:42 PM   #28
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That is the interesting question. Last year I would have guessed a European country. Today I am betting on Japan.
Yep

My source in the city also says watch Japan very closely, they have the most to loose due to having next to no raw materials in house, they are way over populated for what their carrying capacity can cycle, the same goes for all countries that import over 50% of their food and energy.

Japan does however have one of the highest re-forested landscapes at 75% I here.
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Old 27-05-2013, 06:46 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by marlowe View Post
Get rid of the bankers and politicians, by whatever means necessary.
Like this you mean

www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSIUf2hD6Io
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Old 27-05-2013, 07:04 PM   #30
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China is preparing for the demise of the dollar:

New Zealand, China in Talks on Convertibility of Currencies

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...NewsCollection
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Old 27-05-2013, 10:10 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by fishin43diqs View Post
You are absolutely correct. It is not real. But there is no political will to disown the debt. It will not be done. Even if it were, there would be serious economic problems as a result.
That is my exact point...

There is no political will to disown the debt because it's not even real.

It's just used as way to build up the infrastructure of a country...

Like i said before if America actually had a debt of 17 trillion dollars there wouldn't be any money for 900 military bases in 130 countries and nobody would be on welfare or food stamps. If the US was really broke there would be no money for war, no money to give to countries in the middle east, no money to give people health care. How can China loan the US money when the US gives money to Egypt, Israel, Pakistan ect. All this debt is just a bunch of thin air what's not to see about that.

Think about it...
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Old 27-05-2013, 10:28 PM   #32
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Follow the smart money.
Stock markets are booming right now, house prices have shot up.
Turkeys don't vote for Xmas so the money people are out and about again.
They'll not let it all go bits up.
A recession every ten years or so is good for business, so is a large scale war but I do hope that we avoid one of those.
If we have to have one then I'm looking to Boris Johnson to be our great war leader with Nigel Farage as his Aide de Camp.
Another home win as long as the Americans come in on it, on our side.

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Old 27-05-2013, 11:22 PM   #33
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Disconcerting how some people still believe there will be a recovery, it's like a suicidal trust that the brilliant, educated, financial minds who led us into financial meltdown will rescue us.
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Old 27-05-2013, 11:26 PM   #34
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Those guys are in the lifeboats already buddy.
Best place to be after a shipwreck is a lifeboat.
This recession is simply taking the same course that every previous recession has taken.
Follow the smart money and you'll be fine.
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Old 27-05-2013, 11:31 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by 302bluefog View Post
That is my exact point...

There is no political will to disown the debt because it's not even real.

It's just used as way to build up the infrastructure of a country...

Like i said before if America actually had a debt of 17 trillion dollars there wouldn't be any money for 900 military bases in 130 countries and nobody would be on welfare or food stamps. If the US was really broke there would be no money for war, no money to give to countries in the middle east, no money to give people health care. How can China loan the US money when the US gives money to Egypt, Israel, Pakistan ect. All this debt is just a bunch of thin air what's not to see about that.

Think about it...
You keep saying the same meaningless BS which was wrong the first time you said it. Please, educate yourself.

The lack of political will is related to the consequences of disowning the debt. It has NOTHING to do with the fact that the debt is not real. Anything is real if TPTB decide it is real and for now they are treating the debt as real. There is no evidence that they will change this approach. One of the benefits of the currency inflation we are enjoying is that the debts will become smaller, but it gives those in power plenty of time to leverage the situation.

The US is paying for everything with inflated money issued by the FED. IT IS NOT BACKED BY ANYTHING. If the US needs more money, the FED prints it. now that they can't sell all of their debt to other countries. This is pure fact, not opinion. How can you not understand that? That is how the US continually spends more money that it actually has. China and other countries buy US debt because for the foreseeable future they think the US will pay it back, but the Chinese are getting rid of their US debt because they realize that the US dollar will collapse or become so highly inflated that repayment is meaningless. So now the Fed is buying the debt.

"The FED Can't Stop Buying U.S. Bonds -- Ever

February 13, 2013

The world has realized that the U.S. is a bad investment. U.S. politicians have made it clear that they have no intention of paying off the U.S. debt – ever. China has been openly selling U.S. debt for two years.

The U.S. can’t afford to pay an interest rate high enough to compensate for its risk. In fact, the returns on U.S. bonds are barely enough to compensate for the official rate of inflation. As a result, the market has stopped buying U.S. debt. The Federal Reserve (FED) has had to buy the remaining debt by creating money and devaluing the dollar. In 2011 the FED bought an amount equal to 61% of newly issued U.S. debt. In 2012 they bought 90%. So far, in 2013, the FED is buying more than 100% -- they are buying more U.S. debt than the government is selling as other holders of U.S. debt put their bonds up for sale.

When President Obama was campaigning for his second term in 2012, David Letterman asked him what the amount of the U.S. debt was. Many people were upset when the president said, “I don’t remember.” What was more shocking was what the president said next. He stated that the debt really isn’t a problem in the short term because interest rates are so low.

What Obama failed to mention was that the only reason interest rates were so low was because the FED was buying up all the debt. When interest rates are low in a free market, that signifies that you have a low-risk borrower. However, when your central bank has to buy up all your debt you are no longer operating in a free market, and the low interest rate is meaningless. Yes, it's true that the U.S. does not have to pay high interest rates, but when the world is no longer willing to loan you money that is a very bad thing.

When confronted with the idea that the Fed is simply creating money to cover the U.S. debt, FED Chairman Ben Bernanke responded, "It's not such a radical shift and though we have been increasing the balance sheet for some time, we have been clear that this is a temporary measure to provide accommodation to the economy. We will reduce holdings either by letting the assets run off or selling. It is strictly temporary and would be a different matter if we were buying and holding indefinitely. That would be monetization.” "

http://www.rpmex.com/RPMEX-Blog/Febr...-US-Bonds-Ever
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Old 27-05-2013, 11:32 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by grandmasterp View Post
Those guys are in the lifeboats already buddy.
Best place to be after a shipwreck is a lifeboat.
This recession is simply taking the same course that every previous recession has taken.
Follow the smart money and you'll be fine.
There is no smart money. There is only connected money. If you aren't connected, you're in trouble.
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Old 27-05-2013, 11:47 PM   #37
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I like a bet but I'm useless at picking winners, however when we go to the dog track I watch to see who the high rollers are backing and back their dogs.
That generally pays dividends.
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Old 28-05-2013, 12:02 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by fishin43diqs View Post
There is no smart money. There is only connected money. If you aren't connected, you're in trouble.
As he said in the video this recession is not like the others, previous recessions had elements remaining that allowed recovery. Manufacturing has been centralised in China, manufacturing is the basic building block for work in any country. If people can't work they can't earn money, forget smart money.
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Old 28-05-2013, 12:09 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by fishin43diqs View Post
Anything is real if TPTB decide it is real
See i don't buy into this ideology because i believe if the US falls than TPTB fall along with it. There will be no where in the world for TPTB to hide unless you can call them out by name and state their location. Can you imagine how people in the 3rd world who are suffering would feel if they heard Americans complaining about how their economy might collapse. Here on the east cost of America i don't see any signs in society that lead me to believe the economy is going to collapse. But hey lets just say it did collapse somehow and we have Anarchy which i doubt will happen then it was just the way it was meant to be and life goes on. Humans will be humans and a new type of society might emerge so be it.
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Old 28-05-2013, 12:15 AM   #40
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Quite right.
TPTB didn't get where they are by being stupid.
The whole boom bust thang simply serves their purpose.
These people have a long track record of coming up smelling of roses no matter how deep the shit the rest of us are stuck in.
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