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Old 30-09-2011, 11:52 PM   #501
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Originally Posted by dontdrinkurmilk View Post
I hear u, I like to look at lots of different aspects of 9/11, for me sometimes things go together or contradict one another therefore ruling something out, or adding to a certain theory. We can also focus on the who and why but even then there is divide in opinion. It seems that more evidence is needed and less fiction.
Correct. Disinformation agents (aka "shills") come to forums such as this to present all kinds of wild theories to throw people off the trail of the real perpetrators. They even have shills on top of shills (shills who support the theories of shills). It is often difficult for a truth seeker to determine who is and who is not a shill in all of the (dis)information presented and all the arguments and the name calling. It is the way these people work.

Nobody can tell you the answer. You have to see if for yourself. There is an answer and its not as difficult to understand as you might have imagined. Its just not what you expected. Its not what anyone wanted or expected, but it is reality, and once you are aware of it you have responsibility to help others see it. I cannot tell you, because you would never be able to believe it, but I can point in the right direction to help you learn to see for yourself.
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Old 01-10-2011, 12:28 AM   #502
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Originally Posted by anyhoo View Post
Correct. Disinformation agents (aka "shills") come to forums such as this to present all kinds of wild theories to throw people off the trail of the real perpetrators. They even have shills on top of shills (shills who support the theories of shills). It is often difficult for a truth seeker to determine who is and who is not a shill in all of the (dis)information presented and all the arguments and the name calling. It is the way these people work.

Nobody can tell you the answer. You have to see if for yourself. There is an answer and its not as difficult to understand as you might have imagined. Its just not what you expected. Its not what anyone wanted or expected, but it is reality, and once you are aware of it you have responsibility to help others see it. I cannot tell you, because you would never be able to believe it, but I can point in the right direction to help you learn to see for yourself.
I have my own beliefs on what happened, however, I take a unbiased look at this issue and take each piece of evidence as it comes. All I want to do is find the facts and yes some present good information others not so good. When a theory is presented often its shot down, I don't like to see this, people should be to amicably rebutt others theories etc without the insults etc.
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Old 01-10-2011, 02:48 AM   #503
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Originally Posted by dontdrinkurmilk View Post
I have my own beliefs on what happened, however, I take a unbiased look at this issue and take each piece of evidence as it comes. All I want to do is find the facts and yes some present good information others not so good. When a theory is presented often its shot down, I don't like to see this, people should be to amicably rebutt others theories etc without the insults etc.
The truth you should seek to establish is that world leaders, both in and outside of the U.S., are corrupt to the core. The American dream is the American fraud. Those who were behind the JFK assassination are the same as those behind 911. Its old, secret corruption in high places that has done this. There is a different reality than the one that is presented to you on the nightly news. If you knew that reality, 9/11 would cease to be a mystery. The only reason it is a mystery is because that reality has been effectively hidden from you. If you want to begin to heal, stop watching their disinformation that they call "news". You will never get the truth there about anything important. They've been lying to us all, not just about 9/11 but about politics, national and world events, etc. tptb own the media and have for a long time.
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Last edited by anyhoo; 01-10-2011 at 02:53 AM.
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Old 01-10-2011, 07:20 AM   #504
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[QUOTE=anyhoo;1060250559]The truth you should seek to establish is that world leaders, both in and outside of the U.S., are corrupt to the core. The American dream is the American fraud. Those who were behind the JFK assassination are the same as those behind 911. Its old, secret corruption in high places that has done this. There is a different reality than the one that is presented to you on the nightly news. If you knew that reality, 9/11 would cease to be a mystery. The only reason it is a mystery is because that reality has been effectively hidden from you. If you want to begin to heal, stop watching their disinformation that they call "news". You will never get the truth there about anything important. They've been lying to us all, not just about 9/11 but about politics, national and world events, etc. tptb own the media and have for a long time.[/QUOTE

I appreciate your reply, I however, am aware of what you say and have been for a while, I have looked at alternate news sources for years you have to if you want to see what is actually occuring in the world, you can actually see how ignorant the MS news channels are once you seek your news from genuine sources.
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Old 01-10-2011, 01:53 PM   #505
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[QUOTE=dontdrinkurmilk;1060250758]
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Originally Posted by anyhoo View Post
The truth you should seek to establish is that world leaders, both in and outside of the U.S., are corrupt to the core. The American dream is the American fraud. Those who were behind the JFK assassination are the same as those behind 911. Its old, secret corruption in high places that has done this. There is a different reality than the one that is presented to you on the nightly news. If you knew that reality, 9/11 would cease to be a mystery. The only reason it is a mystery is because that reality has been effectively hidden from you. If you want to begin to heal, stop watching their disinformation that they call "news". You will never get the truth there about anything important. They've been lying to us all, not just about 9/11 but about politics, national and world events, etc. tptb own the media and have for a long time.[/QUOTE

I appreciate your reply, I however, am aware of what you say and have been for a while, I have looked at alternate news sources for years you have to if you want to see what is actually occuring in the world, you can actually see how ignorant the MS news channels are once you seek your news from genuine sources.
I'm glad you see it. My message was not just for you but for anyone who is reading this thread. I have just woken up to it. It's so subtle and so subliminal that is very difficult to see even when looking straight at it. Simply put, the news brainwashes people, and it is very effective brainwashing. It is no wonder why most people believe the 9-11 cover story, because they watch and listen to the news and believe the information being presented to them is factual. What would they do if they knew that much of it was crafted fiction to explain what the elite do behind the scenes? We are living in the middle of a conspiracy, people, and those who are in control are willing to use any means to keep control, even mass murder. When you see the magnitude of it, it is terrifying. None of us has any real security because they are free at any time to do whatever they want to and then blame it on whatever group they want to. More bad things are coming people, things that will make 9-11 look miniscule in comparison. Anyone who reads this, I urge you to wake up to this reality before it is too late. Or maybe its already too late.
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Old 02-10-2011, 04:50 AM   #506
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Can I ask you then, why you refuse to consider that option rationally. I have put all options on my own table and still consider the military option to be a viable one given the evidence to support it.
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You're being illogical, Stann. Military planes assumes 9/11 was an inside job, and only the other day you said you're not convinced it was an inside job.
Simply put bryan you have misunderstood what I said, and made an assumption (forked tongue).

You have decided that because I have said the military option is viable, that I assume it was an inside job and therefore I am being illogical.

I never said I was convinced .. OK.

I never ever said I was CONVINCED. Totally the contrary as you have said.

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Originally Posted by bryan
you said you're not convinced it was an inside job.
I just want to look at all options, with a fair critique.

@anyhoo

Your assessment of gamolon as being a shill is total shit. He is one of the few here who analyses without preconceived ideas or theories. He is not pushing shit uphill and is not convinced the official story is totally incorrect.

Please stop the name calling Anyhoo it doesn't do your case much good.

Last edited by stannrodd; 02-10-2011 at 05:00 AM.
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Old 02-10-2011, 11:05 AM   #507
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Thanks to the James Randi Forum I came across this vid explaining how the steel towers gave way on impact of the planes.


Also the example quoted of a Kamikaze plane smashing thro the steel hull of USS Hinsdale.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Hinsdale_(APA-120)
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Old 02-10-2011, 12:40 PM   #508
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Thanks to the James Randi Forum I came across this vid explaining how the steel towers gave way on impact of the planes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhKrirlTw8c

Also the example quoted of a Kamikaze plane smashing thro the steel hull of USS Hinsdale.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Hinsdale_(APA-120)
James Randi is the Grinch.LOL A complete silly forum overwhelmed with censorship.
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Old 02-10-2011, 12:43 PM   #509
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James Randi is the Grinch.LOL A complete silly forum overwhelmed with censorship.
I take it you've tried it there and got shot down so you're now bitter and twisted and resort to name calling.
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Old 02-10-2011, 12:44 PM   #510
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Originally Posted by wispy View Post
Thanks to the James Randi Forum I came across this vid explaining how the steel towers gave way on impact of the planes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhKrirlTw8c

Also the example quoted of a Kamikaze plane smashing thro the steel hull of USS Hinsdale.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Hinsdale_(APA-120)
Where's Part 2 showing how the wing tips "sliced thru the 1/4'' steel"?
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Old 02-10-2011, 12:46 PM   #511
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I take it you've tried it there and got shot down so you're now bitter and twisted and resort to name calling.
No, they censored the truth about jfk in a way that almost no other forum did. Complete disinformation, 100%. They shit their pants when I posted Greer's arm crossing over in the nix film. They put the gifs to links.LOL

Last edited by 7forever; 02-10-2011 at 12:47 PM.
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Old 02-10-2011, 02:41 PM   #512
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Originally Posted by stannrodd View Post
Simply put bryan you have misunderstood what I said, and made an assumption (forked tongue).

You have decided that because I have said the military option is viable, that I assume it was an inside job and therefore I am being illogical.

I never said I was convinced .. OK.

I never ever said I was CONVINCED. Totally the contrary as you have said.



I just want to look at all options, with a fair critique.

@anyhoo

Your assessment of gamolon as being a shill is total shit. He is one of the few here who analyses without preconceived ideas or theories. He is not pushing shit uphill and is not convinced the official story is totally incorrect.

Please stop the name calling Anyhoo it doesn't do your case much good.
I am saddened that you support someone who professes to believe in the official cover story and finds no problem with it. Is it name calling to label someone for what they are? I don't ask what you are, Stannrodd, because you have just identified yourself. Nothing surprises me. Those of us who are honest and not involved in some way in this conspiracy are not all gullible fools, you know. Most of the things that are presented in this forum are either a mockery or trivial and not worthy of serious discussion. The big things, Stannrodd. Its the big things I am looking at. You won't find those things in this flytrap.
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Old 02-10-2011, 09:31 PM   #513
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I am saddened that you support someone who professes to believe in the official cover story and finds no problem with it. Is it name calling to label someone for what they are? I don't ask what you are, Stannrodd, because you have just identified yourself. Nothing surprises me. Those of us who are honest and not involved in some way in this conspiracy are not all gullible fools, you know. Most of the things that are presented in this forum are either a mockery or trivial and not worthy of serious discussion. The big things, Stannrodd. Its the big things I am looking at. You won't find those things in this flytrap.
You shouldn't be saddened by this. I support gamolon in many but not all things.

The member is actively questioning aspects put forward by other members, where there is false logic and simply poor methodology. I regard this as healthy discussion. Unhealthy discussion is when we regard something as unquestionable. Some members could do themselves a whole heap of good by sometimes listening to and learning from their critics, fine tuning their work to avoid silly/foolish mistakes and improving the knowledge base.

Those who disrupt for the sake of it should be ignored (or chastised :-)

The "name calling" in my view includes the term shill. It is unnecessary.
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Old 12-02-2012, 03:55 PM   #514
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Here's the logic, step by step...


1. Real-life plane crashes are too complex to fake convincingly using computer software.

2. This plane crash was faked using basic computer software and is virtually identical to the plane crash that was shown on TV.

3. Therefore, the plane crash that was shown on TV is not a real-life plane crash.


Notice how there's no assumption there were no planes. Rather, the conclusion shows that a plane was faked. Unless I'm wrong, that is. If you think so, you need to show that at least one premise is false or that the premises don't necessarily lead to the conclusion.
There's not an assumption that something was in the air for T2 but a corroborated fact provided by on the ground witnesses and 4 broadcasts showing a small object coming from directly west of the towers. The conclusion shows that a plane was faked. Unless the videos and witnesses are wrong, that is. If you still think there was nothing flying toward T2, then, in the real world you'd have to explain how video footage and eyewitnesses were wrong about something that confirms a strange floating object, not a plane, or in your fake theory, nothing external was involved in the south tower's explosion. WB11 aired the bogey from 9:03-9:26 and their fake plane image magically appeared one minute later.


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Old 12-02-2012, 04:02 PM   #515
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There's not an assumption that something was in the air for T2 but a corroborated fact provided by on the ground witnesses and 4 broadcasts showing a small object coming from directly west of the towers. The conclusion shows that a plane was faked. Unless the videos and witnesses are wrong, that is. If you still think there was nothing flying toward T2, then, in the real world you'd have to explain how video footage and eyewitnesses were wrong about something that confirms a strange floating object, not a plane, or in your fake theory, nothing external was involved in the south tower's explosion. WB11 aired the bogey from 9:03-9:26 and their fake plane image magically appeared one minute later.


I wonder how many people saw a large airliner vs how many saw a ''small object'' striking T2?
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Old 12-02-2012, 05:14 PM   #516
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I wonder how many people saw a large airliner vs how many saw a ''small object'' striking T2?
I think there's a lot of psychology that goes into understanding what people said they saw after either seeing it on tv or hearing that large planes hit. Many on the ground described something circling, which could not have been 175 because nist themselves provided its final seconds coming south to north, behind the towers entirely. The west approach is either the bogey or an overlay making its path appear more southwest.

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Old 12-02-2012, 07:35 PM   #517
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I think there's a lot of psychology that goes into understanding what people said they saw after either seeing it on tv or hearing that large planes hit. Many on the ground described something circling, which could not have been 175 because nist themselves provided its final seconds coming south to north, behind the towers entirely. The west approach is either the bogey or an overlay making its path appear more southwest.

From all the video evidence I have examined, the planes travel the same flight path, its all consistent which you would expect.

There were some early reports of smaller aircraft hitting the towers, not everyone can scale the size of a plane against the towers, as the planes did not look huge against the towers, especially people watching from a distance, people close up may not have seen the impact.

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Old 12-02-2012, 08:16 PM   #518
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I don't quite know what to make of 9/11 "researchers" that still cling to planes. I learned about "no planes" last year and didn't believe it at first. But, it became very obvious after a few hours of digging and i became convinced that no planes hit the towers after a few days of my own analysis. I already knew that no plane hit the Pentagon, so that helped in realizing that maybe no planes were involved at the WTC either.

At this point, my litmus test for ferreting out 98% of 9/11 shills is simple .... Dimitri Khalezov's testimony -- you're either a believer or not.

- All 3 WTC buildings were demolished to dust using built-in underground nuclear devices (not "mini-nukes")
- No planes hit the WTC towers, it was just explosives
- No plane hit the Pentagon, it was an undetonated nuclear warhead missile
- No hijackers, no cell phone calls
- A plane was shot down over Shanksville

In summary:
US officials were duped into destroying the WTC towers and shooting down the plane over Shanksville. After the Pentagon undetonated nuclear missile attack, "intelligence" then fed officials the story that Osama bin Laden planted 2 mini-nukes at the top of the WTC towers, and officials had to do "something" to prevent an atmospheric detonation of these mini-nukes because it would kill millions in NYC. Officials decided to use the WTC's built-in devices to destroy the tower (this is why WTC 2, which was hit last, collapsed before WTC 1). Officials decided to destroy WTC 7 to hide the evidence of the 3rd undetonated underground nuclear device, which is why WTC 7 collapsed to dust later that day even though nothing hit the building.

]
Why make the false argument that nothing hit either tower when clear evidence of blobs going toward both were captured on multiple videos? It makes no sense and is a clever trap to get folks believing in a lie. What appears in video footage supports that something, not a plane impacted the towers.
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Old 03-03-2012, 05:32 AM   #519
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Pointless exercise .. you won't get logic and reason from the No Plane brigade ..
..nope!...just regurgitated b*llsh*t!
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Old 03-03-2012, 07:16 AM   #520
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Meanwhile on J REF, this debate on aluminium planes versus steel structures.

Which as you can imagine is along the lines of the planes had mass and energy and would punch trho the steel structure.

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=231446
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