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Old 26-11-2014, 11:27 AM   #3861
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Originally Posted by neilbe View Post
Just to say, plans are not fate, plans can go tits-up as well.

Just ask Sandy..
Somebody elses' plan isn't your freewill, is it?
Think of those aliens that change timelines. Events are already decided that's why they know what you going to say before you speak.
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Old 26-11-2014, 11:40 AM   #3862
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time of y death is not up to me, is it?
If you've given up the ghost then yes, it's up to you.

And perhaps more importantly, how you go. Do you wish to peg-out calmly and peacefully? If yes then it is entirely up to you and how you live from moment to moment..
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Old 26-11-2014, 11:44 AM   #3863
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Somebody elses' plan isn't your freewill, is it?
Think of those aliens that change timelines. Events are already decided that's why they know what you going to say before you speak.
What aliens are those mate?

And I've didn't say that someone else's plan was my free will.....I said that plans have a habit of going tits-up, that they are not fate de complete? Are they?
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Old 26-11-2014, 12:01 PM   #3864
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What aliens are those mate?

And I've didn't say that someone else's plan was my free will.....I said that plans have a habit of going tits-up, that they are not fate de complete? Are they?
Let's say an alien is coming to abuduct you.
If plan fails, nothing happens so it doesn't affect you and you are none the wiser whether something should or shouldn't have happened.
But if plan is completed, it is not your freewill that aliens abuducted you....is it? It's fate, it was decided for you. I am talking about aliens who are claiming to be the God, the creator, the ones that created adam & eve.
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Old 26-11-2014, 12:09 PM   #3865
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And here's the fundamental flaw in your reasoning.
I bet it won't be

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If the past causes dictate the present, then you put one post on here that dictates how and what and when I reply. If you can do this then I will willingly admit that you are right, that there is no free will.
Again, you are woefully misunderstanding what I am saying.

For a start you are implying that I can control you, why on earth would you assume that?

Whether you reply is 100% dictated by your past experience, if you do or don't, it has little to do with me, although I am "part" of the cause that will cause you to or not.

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This is a fundamental contradiction in your logic, if past causes dictate the now, then post something here, and dictate what is said next.
The is absolutely no flaw in my logic, just your understanding.

We cannot even predict which way a rain drop will fall on a window pane, for the variable are immense, air pressure, specs of dust, weight of water molecules etc etc etc, but be sure that the rain drop will fall only one way, so no, I cannot predict what you will do, maybe your phone will go and you will have to rush out for an emergency, who knows but be sure that whatever does happen is all part of a bigger picture of interconnectedness, there is no separation from events, I am linked to you and to absolutely every other thing in the universe

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You can't do that, therefore your whole hypophysis is in pieces. The past only dictates if we allow it to. I don't allow it to. Just try one post, one time to dictate what I actually say next, in very fine detail.
It really isn't, in all of the pages of this thread, not one person has come up with one single solitary thing that isn't caused, so my hypothesis is 100% absolutely bullet proof.

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My ego isn't fighting, that would be my freedom and love wishing to express itself.
I feel no love in your words, I just sense an ego fighting to validate itself :luv:
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Old 26-11-2014, 12:10 PM   #3866
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Let's say an alien is coming to abuduct you.
If plan fails, nothing happens so it doesn't affect you and you are none the wiser whether something should or shouldn't have happened.
But if plan is completed, it is not your freewill that aliens abuducted you....is it? It's fate, it was decided for you. I am talking about aliens who are claiming to be the God, the creator, the ones that created adam & eve.
Oh ok El-Shaper.

Whatever..
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Old 26-11-2014, 12:42 PM   #3867
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Originally Posted by sandwarrior View Post
I bet it won't be



Again, you are woefully misunderstanding what I am saying.

For a start you are implying that I can control you, why on earth would you assume that?

Whether you reply is 100% dictated by your past experience, if you do or don't, it has little to do with me, although I am "part" of the cause that will cause you to or not.
The central point I was making was that the past only dictates, whether that is the resent or distant past, it can only dictate if we should allow such a woefully pathetic situation to arise. If we don't take responsibility.

The past can only dictate to us if we allow it to. A bit like allowing Hitler to dictate. It can only happen when good men do nothing. When good men don't take responsibility.

And besides, its not passed causes that have dictated anything, it's past reactions that change and move the world. And my reaction are my choice. Some moments will have a greater clarity and more of a compassionate feeling, which help to create a more skilful reaction and basically a better world.

What's wrong in wanting a better world?
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Old 26-11-2014, 12:57 PM   #3868
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The central point I was making was that the past only dictates, whether that is the resent or distant past, it can only dictate if we should allow such a woefully pathetic situation to arise. If we don't take responsibility.

The past can only dictate to us if we allow it to. A bit like allowing Hitler to dictate. It can only happen when good men do nothing. When good men don't take responsibility.
You are not understanding.

Your past IS you!

You are a sum total of your past, but not just your past everyones past, your parents, their parents, friends, friends of friends, relatives, situations, experiences, everything has made you what you are today, your past IS 100% you, it has dictated 100% what you are, every choice you have made and every choice you will make, you are not a separate entity that can jump off the casual chain, you can't separate yourself from this reality to make choices independent of your past, it is just impossible, the chain is unbreakable!



Quote:
And besides, its not passed causes that have dictated anything, it's past reactions that change and move the world. And my reaction are my choice. Some moments will have a greater clarity and more of a compassionate feeling, which help to create a more skilful reaction and basically a better world.
Reactions are nothing without causes, there cannot be a reaction without a cause, there is no separation. All there is is a massive interconnectedness of everything in this reality, you are not separate, you don't have a will that is separate, you are part of it and such you are not independent.



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What's wrong in wanting a better world?
Absolutely nothing.

But you were caused to want a better world
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Old 26-11-2014, 12:58 PM   #3869
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The is absolutely no flaw in my logic, just your understanding.

We cannot even predict which way a rain drop will fall on a window pane, for the variable are immense, air pressure, specs of dust, weight of water molecules etc etc etc, but be sure that the rain drop will fall only one way, so no, I cannot predict what you will do, maybe your phone will go and you will have to rush out for an emergency, who knows but be sure that whatever does happen is all part of a bigger picture of interconnectedness, there is no separation from events, I am linked to you and to absolutely every other thing in the universe

To say that rain can only fall one way shows that you've never been to Manchester. And another flaw in your reasoning.

Yes I agree, that we are all interconnected. But this "thing" this potential that is deep, deep within us can only be accessed in this present moment. The NOW, not the NWO, the New Ordered World. NOW!

This inner well, this place of all creativity, all potential, all life and power. This inner universe is completely empty. What and how we wish to perceive life is our choice, of cause it's influenced by the past. Some people more than others. Some not at all. That's called Enlightenment!

Me, I'm somewhere in between, hard to say where exactly from this point and position in time. Never mind!

I'm working, choosing to slowly filter out all the crap, all the nonsense and things that snag me to the past. Having said that, my ego is still here, say hello if you like...he's quite friendly..
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Old 26-11-2014, 01:02 PM   #3870
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I bet it won't be


It really isn't, in all of the pages of this thread, not one person has come up with one single solitary thing that isn't caused, so my hypothesis is 100% absolutely bullet proof.

Ok, you want something that isn't caused? Ok, no problem. Will you admit that your mistaken if I show you something that isn't, hasn't been caused?

Just for the sake of the truth?

And not my ego!!!
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Old 26-11-2014, 01:05 PM   #3871
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Ok, you want something that isn't caused? Ok, no problem. Will you admit that your mistaken if I show you something that isn't, hasn't been caused?

Just for the sake of the truth?

And not my ego!!!
Yes, If you can show me just one thing that isn't caused then I will admit that I am mistaken 100%.

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Eating a lamb for the way it tastes is exactly the same as eating a songbird for the way it sounds.

Abhorrent.


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Old 27-11-2014, 08:30 AM   #3872
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That which isn't caused has many names. Personally, I'm not sure what to call it.

The actual thing is not a thing at all, although to say its self-existent, uncreated and unchanging might help a little. This no-thing is infinite and eternal. Unobstructed in any sense. Some might call it the ultimate truth of the void.

These are just words, words cannot fully explain that which it encompass'.

Suffice to say that it is everything and nothing.

It is uncaused.
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Old 27-11-2014, 08:40 AM   #3873
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Originally Posted by neilbe View Post
That which isn't caused has many names. Personally, I'm not sure what to call it.

The actual thing is not a thing at all, although to say its self-existent, uncreated and unchanging might help a little. This no-thing is infinite and eternal. Unobstructed in any sense. Some might call it the ultimate truth of the void.

These are just words, words cannot fully explain that which it encompass'.

Suffice to say that it is everything and nothing.

It is uncaused.
Fail.

It has been repeated many times in this thread that it is almost surely the case that free will and hence un caused things exist at some level.

Just not this level.

it is something un caused in this reality that you are looking for.
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Eating a lamb for the way it tastes is exactly the same as eating a songbird for the way it sounds.

Abhorrent.


Enlightenment is: Absolute co-operation with the inevitable.
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Old 27-11-2014, 09:41 AM   #3874
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it is something un caused in this reality that you are looking for.
It's completely within this reality, where else would it be?

What do you think is animating you at this very moment? To deny this is just blatant ignorance, no offence.

The divine spark that is within you is unchanging, uncreated and un-caused. It is eternal and infinite. It is everything, no one thing, but everything.
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Old 27-11-2014, 09:49 AM   #3875
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it is something...
No, it's not something at all. This shows how off the mark your understanding is.

Consciousness is everything. We're just not noticing our connectivity that's all.

We are totally connected, we are totally one, we are infinite, we are everything.

This everything is un-caused.
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Old 27-11-2014, 09:53 AM   #3876
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This everything is un-caused.
Its just that you are not big enough to admit it.

The only fail here is your ego..
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Old 27-11-2014, 12:55 PM   #3877
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I often think that this is what this awakening thing is - the accent to free will. Not that it's particularly free from anything other than predestination.
So you believe in free will then. I am confuded!

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Not that it's particularly free from anything other than predestination.
Predestination suggests that there is, indeed, no such thing as free will right.
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Old 27-11-2014, 01:39 PM   #3878
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[QUOTE=ranhyapiranhya;1062318983]
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So you believe in free will then. I am confuded!
I believe that it's impossible to tell for sure either way and that it doesn't make a great deal of difference what we believe.

Ultimately free will and predetermination are both illusions of this illusory reality we live in. What's beyond that is "one". One cannot be free from one. One has no other to react to.

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Predestination suggests that there is, indeed, no such thing as free will right.
Yep. Within this dream reality we are subject to cause and effect. I've been suggesting that self realisation can free us from predetermination. I wouldn't call it free will though, because there is no separation from other things in the universe.

Hope this makes sense. I like the word confuded.
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Old 27-11-2014, 03:06 PM   #3879
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[QUOTE=white light;1062319027]
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I like the word confuded.
lmfao!!! So do I. Maybe we could conspire to get it introduced into the english dictionary!

On topic White Light,,,,,, you still confuse me.

I am getting a little soft brained in my old age and find it hard to keep up.
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Old 27-11-2014, 03:12 PM   #3880
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[QUOTE=ranhyapiranhya;1062319094]
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lmfao!!! So do I. Maybe we could conspire to get it introduced into the english dictionary!

On topic White Light,,,,,, you still confuse me.

I am getting a little soft brained in my old age and find it hard to keep up.
Yeah it's a confusing topic, that's why it's getting close to 4000 replies. Can't say that I'm any closer to really understanding it, so I'm just riffin' ideas really.
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