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Old 06-04-2011, 10:22 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by rockinrobinsuk View Post
Don't give your name when they come round or any details overwise you are entering a contract.
Dont say you have not done it either just tell them its your right not to give your personal details to strangers knocking at your door especially when they have no authoratory over you.
Or just ignore them as you have to give your consent to be charged with a statatory law or act of parliment.
And giving your name is giving consent.
When i get home i will post a slide show explaining this all :
Good advice, it is basic 'freeman on the land' knowledge but it takes a while and a bit of research before you really understand (comprehend) it.

You have to get your head around the fact that most people convict themselves in any given situation by answering questions that 'trick' you,

eg. If you open the door to a tv licence inspector and he says, "are you Mr. Joe Bloggs ?" , the natural reaction of most people is to answer "yes", at that point you have 'created joinder' and 'agreed to contract', you have agreed to something that you are unaware of,

if your reply was, "who are you?", you are still 'safe', ask "am I LAWFULLY required to answer that question?" (the people that ask these questions can/will lie to you) if they tell you that you are lawfully required to answer, ask "what law".

Don't answer questions, reply with your own questions.

I am not a freeman on the land but I have used the information, when the police came to my door to 'do me' for having a car on the road with no tax, mot etc, I used this simple method and they walked away, there was nothing they could do to me.
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Old 06-04-2011, 10:27 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by oppono astos View Post
This would be very much appreciated.

I have not filled in the form, but must admit to being a little concerned about an "army" of enforcers who may come knocking at my door.

We have a spy hole, and I've clued up the other tenants to be careful when about to open the door to strangers, especially with clipboards.

But our house was empty on the 26th anyway. It is a privately rented house.

If you're on the electoral role I reckon they will pull people up next month when voting at the locals.
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Old 06-04-2011, 10:29 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by al_chemy View Post
We have a spy hole, and I've clued up the other tenants to be careful when about to open the door to strangers, especially with clipboards.

But our house was empty on the 26th anyway. It is a privately rented house.

If you're on the electoral role I reckon they will pull people up next month when voting at the locals.
My shit-for-brains **** neighbour let a bailiff in to my flat the other day. Needless to say, he's now on my enemy list.
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Old 06-04-2011, 10:36 AM   #24
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Treat the census-door-knockers the same as tv licence salesmen (inspectors).

Tried and tested by many, and is the most successful, least stressful, most time saving method.

No Contact. Do not write back, telephone, or sign anything etc.
No Comment. Keep yer gob shut! Walk away in silence.
Do not open the door to them.

IF you do inadvertently open the door, e.g. because you are going out,
and one is infecting your doorstep, shut the door again without saying anything at all.

They will go away in a few minutes.

With tv licencing, if you do not sign their form,
which is really a pre-prepared statement that you watch tv
and have no licence (an admission of guilt in their eyes),
they have no name to prosecute, and no evidence (confession) either.

Census bods will have the same powers as tv licencing i.e. none - unless you agree.
By avoiding them, no agreement can take place, therefore nothing can be done to you.
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Old 06-04-2011, 10:37 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by armoured_amazon View Post
My shit-for-brains **** neighbour let a bailiff in to my flat the other day. Needless to say, he's now on my enemy list.
How helpful of him. As you say - cnut!
(I hope it's not a long list - life's to short!)

People should ask before doing sh1t, the same as giving out someones phone number. If you can't ask then don't do it - easy.
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Old 06-04-2011, 11:35 AM   #26
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Can someone explain this agreeing to a fine business? Cos I put my balls where my mouth is and didn't fill in my form. How do I avoid a fine if it comes to it?

NON-COMPLIANCE. Don't speak to anyone who knocks at your door, don't answer any questions over the phone or in person, don't respond to any letters. Completly ignoring them makes them 100% powerless. DON'T even open any letters they send, just return to sender. If you do open a letter and you see its a threat of fine or any other type of threat, don't worry, just ignore it and it WILL not happen. I guarentee this.

If you do all this and it doesn't work I'll even pay your fine for you. I'm this certain of what I'm saying.

Just to make one quick point to everyone. All these percentages of people that people are quoting and banding on about saying they are people who have rebelled and haven't filled in their census are totally meaningless empty numbers that prove nothing in reality. They're empty statistics that prove nothing.
Think about it, if THEY knew how many people should be filling in their census why on earth do they need a census in the first place?
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Old 06-04-2011, 11:40 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by armoured_amazon View Post
My shit-for-brains **** neighbour let a bailiff in to my flat the other day. Needless to say, he's now on my enemy list.

Why on earth would your Neighbour have a key if they're this untrustworthy?

If you live in a shared property and your neighbour lives under the same roof then your neighbour only let them in the LOBBY. Not your flat so you've got nothing to worry about. This is the case if you have to pass through a second locked door to enter your flat. Hope you follow what I mean.

Although I can see why you would be annoyed for them letting them into the lobby area too.
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Old 06-04-2011, 11:41 AM   #28
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The fines are just a Tory stealth tax and to the people that didnt fill the form in and knew there would be a fine don't come crying on here when they come collecting.
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Old 06-04-2011, 11:43 AM   #29
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Just had one at my door "I posted a census in your door a few weeks ago", "sorry I'm busy right now" seems to have worked.

That was bloody quick.

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Old 06-04-2011, 11:45 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by jimmi View Post
Good advice, it is basic 'freeman on the land' knowledge but it takes a while and a bit of research before you really understand (comprehend) it.

I am not a freeman on the land but I have used the information, when the police came to my door to 'do me' for having a car on the road with no tax, mot etc, I used this simple method and they walked away, there was nothing they could do to me.
Good work! That's what the fmotl is all about
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Old 06-04-2011, 11:46 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by killmicrosoft View Post
fact



2011 census laws are in place to now take the 1000 fine directly from any benefit they choose or deem fit and if they cant obtain it that way rest assured you will lose some money if not all that you entitled too
Thanks for the reply Killmirosoft.
I still fail to see how that could be legal or lawful.

I though corporations were not allowed to pass on confidential information ?

Note it says "for consideration of legal action", so I'd like to know if this is just a rumour they put about to put us in fear.

Has anyone got evidence of benefits being reduced by a census fine ?
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Old 06-04-2011, 11:59 AM   #32
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Thanks for the reply Killmirosoft.
I still fail to see how that could be legal or lawful.

I though corporations were not allowed to pass on confidential information ?
You are aware who owns the 'game' right!? it's their rules. Of course it could be illegal or unlawful. I bet they'll still try it tho.
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Old 06-04-2011, 12:07 PM   #33
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Question When the Census police come knocking dont answer?

Seven million households which have not completed and returned the census in England and Wales are being warned that they face a visit from officials.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12981374
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Old 06-04-2011, 12:09 PM   #34
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The fines are just a Tory stealth tax and to the people that didnt fill the form in and knew there would be a fine don't come crying on here when they come collecting.
Such a nice friendly compassionate thing to say.

The ONLY way they can ever enforce this fine is if people POLICE THEMSELVES and cooperate with them. I promise anyone on here not to worry, if you don't cooperate with them they can't do nothing. The key is 100% non-cooperation and that means not even giving them your name, or not saying 'YES' when they ask if your names such and such. Remember a simple nod of the head can be interpreted as a YES or a NO so also remember to remain expressionless at all times, giving them NOTHING to go on.

Don't be a mug by policing yourself.

If you want to take the game to them, you could BAN any enforcers from entrance to your property by writing to them with threats of trespassing prosecutions and a hefty fine for any breaches but I only advise people who know what they're doing to take this approach because often the letters you write have to be word perfect for them to listen.


Quote:
Originally Posted by killmicrosoft View Post
fact
2011 census laws are in place to now take the 1000 fine directly from any benefit they choose or deem fit and if they cant obtain it that way rest assured you will lose some money if not all that you entitled too
Total FEAR-MONGERING crap. Don't believe this people, it WON'T EVER happen. Its just trying to scare people into submission.
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Old 06-04-2011, 12:12 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by hoverfly View Post
Thanks for the reply Killmirosoft.
I still fail to see how that could be legal or lawful.

I though corporations were not allowed to pass on confidential information ?

Note it says "for consideration of legal action", so I'd like to know if this is just a rumour they put about to put us in fear.

Has anyone got evidence of benefits being reduced by a census fine ?

Its rubbish.
Anyway, first you have to tell them your name before they can even concieve of doing this if they could which I find highly unlikly. Its just fear-mongering people into submission.

Honestly people its REALLY REALLY REALLY easy. Just don't cooperate with them at all and they are powerless. Thats ALL.
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Old 06-04-2011, 12:14 PM   #36
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I'm going all the way with this one - don't let the fine worry you, it's only money. stand up for what you believe.

ps. i have no money - who cares!
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Old 06-04-2011, 12:41 PM   #37
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Firstly, everyone that has said everything about non-compliance, not answering the door, not giving your name, essentially not giving any evidence to incriminate yourself, is 100% correct. Exactly the same principles apply as to the TV licence. Or the electoral register for that matter. There is no risk involved whatsoever. For me, I haven't been on the electoral register for many years, haven't paid the TV licence for years, recently moved flats, they haven't got the slightest chance of getting any money out of me, they can make their stupid, empty threats 'til the cows come home, as far as I'm concerned.

Secondly, anyone particularly worried about the threat to take money out of benefit, etc, is, I would suggest, worrying about nothing. There are several reasons for this. They don't have the staff to administrate this kind of thing en masse.Trust me, I worked for the DWP for 6 years, the whole system runs on a skeleton staff, they've only just got enough to administrate the payments, and keep things running in something approaching a smooth manner. Especially in times like this, where they're axing staff left, right and centre, and at the same time the number of unemployed people is on the rise (not to mention, hundreds of thousands of ill people are about to be taken off Incapacity Benefit). There's no fucking way they can deal with this, trust me.

Furthermore, think of the potentially bad publicity involved if someone that hadn't filled in the census had x amount taken out of their benefit each month, couldn't pay their rent, got evicted, had kids, and went to the papers. The Daily Mail would have a fucking field day. Especially if it was a pretty lass, I can picture their photo, the sorrowful eyes looking up, cradling a child on each knee. It would be fucking priceless. Never going to happen, precisely for this reason. They're just making hollow threats to shit people up. Precisely the same tactics as the TV Licensing Authority. Complete bullshit.

Finally, please remember, as they have sent all of these forms out in normal post, there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that you received your form. Ironically, if they sent the forms out recorded delivery or special delivery, then they could at least prove that you've received the form. Of course, this would cost more money, and corporations ALWAYS cut every corner possible, even if they are the world's biggest defence contractor! Still, we wouldn't want Lockheed Martin to be shelling out for first-class stamps, would we?

Ever heard of these stories?

http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereven...er_mail_thefts
http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereven...ail_walks_free
http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereven..._mobile_phones

That was the result of a 5 second Google search. Standard sent mail gets 'lost' or stolen ALL THE TIME! If anyone's seen the film 'Looking for Eric', with Eric Cantona, the start of this film where the central character is a postman and has a front room full of mail, was not some brilliant idea on behalf of the writer, it was very much a homage to stuff that is in the Manchester press all the time. Oh, how I miss Manchester! Anyway, the point being, no-one can even prove that you've had the census form, and there is a very good precedent for it going missing. Also, can't remember who posted this, but the idea of sending a load of blank paper back to them, and getting proof of postage, is a very good one. Again, they can't prove a thing, it would be your words against theirs. And they ain't going to go through a lengthy prosecution process for 7 million people!

Fuck them. Don't send it back, don't worry about the consequences, make sure you protect yourself. Even leaving aside the fact it's purely a data mining exercise, I refuse to co-operate with Lockheed Martin. Let them chase me around for a bit, and see how they get on. I'm not participating in any of their stupid crap any more, and neither should you.

Phew that was a long post, I'm going to put the kettle on!
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Old 06-04-2011, 12:54 PM   #38
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they will no longer get compliance out of me on any level.

I'm done with this bullshit now. even if I get arrested protesting they can hold me as long as they can. Not a fucking peep or word will I give to these robotic fuckers

I'v e been homeless before. trust me, there is nothing to fear when you lose everything, because it's an illusioon you had anything to begin with and it sthe fear of holding onto it which keeps so many of us embedded in their bullshit matrix


this guy is pretty clued up on how to treat the robotoids when they come a knockin' asking why you never filled in the census

http://forum.davidicke.com/showthread.php?t=164739

video not showing so I linked to the thread its in
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Old 06-04-2011, 12:58 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by wake_up_bomb View Post
Firstly, everyone that has said everything about non-compliance, not answering the door, not giving your name, essentially not giving any evidence to incriminate yourself, is 100% correct. Exactly the same principles apply as to the TV licence. Or the electoral register for that matter. There is no risk involved whatsoever. For me, I haven't been on the electoral register for many years, haven't paid the TV licence for years, recently moved flats, they haven't got the slightest chance of getting any money out of me, they can make their stupid, empty threats 'til the cows come home, as far as I'm concerned.

Secondly, anyone particularly worried about the threat to take money out of benefit, etc, is, I would suggest, worrying about nothing. There are several reasons for this. They don't have the staff to administrate this kind of thing en masse.Trust me, I worked for the DWP for 6 years, the whole system runs on a skeleton staff, they've only just got enough to administrate the payments, and keep things running in something approaching a smooth manner. Especially in times like this, where they're axing staff left, right and centre, and at the same time the number of unemployed people is on the rise (not to mention, hundreds of thousands of ill people are about to be taken off Incapacity Benefit). There's no fucking way they can deal with this, trust me.

Furthermore, think of the potentially bad publicity involved if someone that hadn't filled in the census had x amount taken out of their benefit each month, couldn't pay their rent, got evicted, had kids, and went to the papers. The Daily Mail would have a fucking field day. Especially if it was a pretty lass, I can picture their photo, the sorrowful eyes looking up, cradling a child on each knee. It would be fucking priceless. Never going to happen, precisely for this reason. They're just making hollow threats to shit people up. Precisely the same tactics as the TV Licensing Authority. Complete bullshit.

Finally, please remember, as they have sent all of these forms out in normal post, there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that you received your form. Ironically, if they sent the forms out recorded delivery or special delivery, then they could at least prove that you've received the form. Of course, this would cost more money, and corporations ALWAYS cut every corner possible, even if they are the world's biggest defence contractor! Still, we wouldn't want Lockheed Martin to be shelling out for first-class stamps, would we?

Ever heard of these stories?

http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereven...er_mail_thefts
http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereven...ail_walks_free
http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereven..._mobile_phones

That was the result of a 5 second Google search. Standard sent mail gets 'lost' or stolen ALL THE TIME! If anyone's seen the film 'Looking for Eric', with Eric Cantona, the start of this film where the central character is a postman and has a front room full of mail, was not some brilliant idea on behalf of the writer, it was very much a homage to stuff that is in the Manchester press all the time. Oh, how I miss Manchester! Anyway, the point being, no-one can even prove that you've had the census form, and there is a very good precedent for it going missing. Also, can't remember who posted this, but the idea of sending a load of blank paper back to them, and getting proof of postage, is a very good one. Again, they can't prove a thing, it would be your words against theirs. And they ain't going to go through a lengthy prosecution process for 7 million people!

Fuck them. Don't send it back, don't worry about the consequences, make sure you protect yourself. Even leaving aside the fact it's purely a data mining exercise, I refuse to co-operate with Lockheed Martin. Let them chase me around for a bit, and see how they get on. I'm not participating in any of their stupid crap any more, and neither should you.

Phew that was a long post, I'm going to put the kettle on!
also I've never paid a water bill (in addition to TV licenceetc). EVER. in all my years were I had to pay. I volunteerd at the CAB and found out they CANNOT cut you off if they know theres someone in the property. its a basic human right. power and gas is a differnt matter however
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Last edited by vienna; 06-04-2011 at 12:58 PM.
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Old 06-04-2011, 12:58 PM   #40
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From the National Statistics online non-compliance report:

Underlying Policy
It is particularly important, in pursuing a non-compliance policy, that prosecutions brought to court are not lost as this would:

attract adverse publicity;
let the field staff down; and
give exactly the opposite message to that which ONS is trying to promote.

Therefore ONS follows a policy of only prosecuting in cases where it has obtained clear and sufficient evidence of a refusal that more or less guarantees success in the courts
. Measured by this yardstick, the 2001 Census non-compliance exercise may be deemed to be a success since only 1 out of the 38 cases heard to date has been dismissed.


Important bit in bold.

The 38 they DID prosecute (out of 1million+) basically handed them the case on a plate.
Probably by confirming all their details and actually stating (more probably writing down) that they REFUSE to complete the census.

Source:
http://www.statistics.gov.uk/census2...mpliancees.asp
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