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Old 05-02-2011, 04:11 PM   #21
britishnick
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A hypothetical scenario related to the OP:

Rump (or anyone else) - I've decided to charge you 10p per question directed at me, after all it's a service you use. It's back dated to the 1st Jan 2011.

Your first estimated statement for Jan 2011 comes to £1.20. Payment is due by the end of Feb. Failure to pay may result in prosecution.

What you gunna do?

Ignore me?
Pay me?
Ask me to prove an obligation for you to pay before you pay?
Tell me that you have no obligation to pay so you're not going to pay?
Tell me you have no obligation to pay and you don't care about the consequenses because it's the principle at stake here, you don't accept this contract or any assumed authority?
ask me loads of questions cos you're a real generous type?
something else?
nothing?
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Old 05-02-2011, 04:17 PM   #22
rob menard
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Quote:
Originally Posted by britishnick View Post
A hypothetical scenario related to the OP:

Rump (or anyone else) - I've decided to charge you 10p per question directed at me, after all it's a service you use. It's back dated to the 1st Jan 2011.

Your first estimated statement for Jan 2011 comes to £1.20. Payment is due by the end of Feb. Failure to pay may result in prosecution.

What you gunna do?

Ignore me?
Pay me?
Ask me to prove an obligation for you to pay before you pay?
Tell me that you have no obligation to pay so you're not going to pay?
Tell me you have no obligation to pay and you don't care about the consequenses because it's the principle at stake here, you don't accept this contract or any assumed authority?
ask me loads of questions cos you're a real generous type?
something else?
nothing?
I consent to this. (And since I have done so, they cannot claim that they do not. For we are in the same 'group' and if the majority consents, they are bound too right? I know I am not the majority, but I am in the majority of voters, who have voted.)

Way to hit them with the logic bomb. Shrapnel of reason is tearing them apart....
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Old 05-02-2011, 05:52 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by britishnick View Post
Please stick on topic rump, start a new thread or pm me if you really want to know ) My circumstances have nothing to do with what I said which was:
I'm just off out.
I'll start a new thread tomorrow posing the questions I asked.
I do hope you answer them regarding your own circumstances..

Quote:
Do you disagree with what I said?
Yup.
Quote:
Do you think that the council does not have to prove that have a valid claim against someone who does not accept their assumed authority?
micklemus has answered that question, but you refuse to see it.
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Old 05-02-2011, 05:56 PM   #24
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Actually i believe this case to be a win win situation for the fotl.
If gynet is prosecuted and found guilty of contempt and does a twenty eight day stint it will reinforce the belief in the fotl's minds that the courts are corrupt. If however no charges are forthcoming and he is let off it will prove to the fotl that their methods are correct.
So, no matter what, it's a victory.
I say: Stand tall warriors!

Last edited by rumpelstilzchen; 05-02-2011 at 05:58 PM.
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Old 05-02-2011, 07:39 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by britishnick View Post
A hypothetical scenario related to the OP:

Rump (or anyone else) - I've decided to charge you 10p per question directed at me, after all it's a service you use. It's back dated to the 1st Jan 2011.

Your first estimated statement for Jan 2011 comes to £1.20. Payment is due by the end of Feb. Failure to pay may result in prosecution.

What you gunna do?

Ignore me?
Pay me?
Ask me to prove an obligation for you to pay before you pay?
Tell me that you have no obligation to pay so you're not going to pay?
Tell me you have no obligation to pay and you don't care about the consequenses because it's the principle at stake here, you don't accept this contract or any assumed authority?
ask me loads of questions cos you're a real generous type?
something else?
nothing?
I'll take a stab at it. The first thing I would is try to determine if you have the authority to made that demand and to enforce it. The first place I would probably look is the posted forum rules. If I couldn't find anything there, I might search the forum to see if you've made similar demands from other people, and whether the moderators (or whomever has the authority to enforce the rules in this forum) had determined that you do have the authority to make such demands, and whether they have enforced them. Having done so, if it becomes quite clear to me that you do have the authority to make such a demand, then I will do one of four things: (1) pay you the money you are demanding of me; (2) leave this forum and never come back; (3) refuse to pay and accept the consequences as they may come; or (4) try to convince a large majority of my fellow forumers to have the rules changed, either by some democratic method (if it is available according to the forum rules) or by revolution, overthrowing the tyrannical rule of britishnick and the moderators!

Now, of course, this is all a bit silly since this is an internet forum and not the real world, but hopefully I've made my point.
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Old 05-02-2011, 09:05 PM   #26
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I'll take a stab at it. The first thing I would is try to determine if you have the authority to made that demand and to enforce it. The first place I would probably look is the posted forum rules. If I couldn't find anything there, I might search the forum to see if you've made similar demands from other people, and whether the moderators (or whomever has the authority to enforce the rules in this forum) had determined that you do have the authority to make such demands, and whether they have enforced them. Having done so, if it becomes quite clear to me that you do have the authority to make such a demand, then I will do one of four things: (1) pay you the money you are demanding of me; (2) leave this forum and never come back; (3) refuse to pay and accept the consequences as they may come; or (4) try to convince a large majority of my fellow forumers to have the rules changed, either by some democratic method (if it is available according to the forum rules) or by revolution, overthrowing the tyrannical rule of britishnick and the moderators!

Now, of course, this is all a bit silly since this is an internet forum and not the real world, but hopefully I've made my point.
^ Respect.
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Old 05-02-2011, 11:16 PM   #27
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Default Thank you all

Thank you all for your comments
I have heard nothing as yet from the CID, I am still waiting soon as i hear more i will let you all know.
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Old 06-02-2011, 12:27 AM   #28
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In these circumstances I would still make payment while requesting proof of claim... it wouldn't be what they are asking, but my estimate of what the value being provided is worth, all clearly identified as "provisional payment while requesting proof of claim"... let them refuse that payment in writing and then summons me to court... not known it happen. Then its a matter of negotiation and counter offer. Councils may delude themselves they work for the government, but the fact in law is they work for us
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Old 06-02-2011, 07:43 AM   #29
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In these circumstances I would still make payment while requesting proof of claim... it wouldn't be what they are asking, but my estimate of what the value being provided is worth, all clearly identified as "provisional payment while requesting proof of claim"... let them refuse that payment in writing and then summons me to court... not known it happen. Then its a matter of negotiation and counter offer. Councils may delude themselves they work for the government, but the fact in law is they work for us
He's already been to court and been ordered to pay with a suspended prison sentence.
If he doesn't pay he's going to prison anyway.
This thread is a seperate matter.
It is regarding contempt for filming in court.
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Old 06-02-2011, 08:11 AM   #30
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i hope you enjoy your time in jail, you'll be able to tell the other cons how...... er........... successful your freeman defence was in court. It's cases like yours that lead me to question the basic principle that consent is needed, after all if you're going down for a month i do believe you won't really be consenting to that.
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Old 06-02-2011, 08:17 AM   #31
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you'll be able to tell the other cons how...... er........... successful your freeman defence was in court.
Oh it will be explained away by saying that he got the "magic words" in the wrong order.
He was given a three month prison sentence suspended on condition that he pays the arrears at £20 per week.
He is now possibly facing a contempt charge because he filmed the court proceedings.
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Old 06-02-2011, 11:51 AM   #32
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Default I totaly agree

Like Ben10 said this proves that the freeman way may not work in court, I have questioned what i am doing again and again.

But lets get the facts here, on the day they were expecting me to take the path others had done in this situation.

I was totally railroaded in the court, so this made me question more, if what we are doing has no standing why on the day did they feel the need to ignore anything i had to say and get me out of the way for a few hour.

There was something not right about this, if every thing is above board then what was the problem.

In the court there was double the amount of court people at least of what you would expect on a case like this.

This was a test case for our local court I believe, and they chose to bully and dismiss evidence.

I was really questioning the freeman path but after this day it has shown me they are hiding something, Yes i lost the case but only through being silenced and having evidence withheld.

I got it wrong and hold my hands up to that, but it without doubt show's they are very aware we are on to them.

As they have changed tack we must also, how i do not know, but i will try and find the way.

This is corrupt and they seem to think we must accept it, Sorry but i am not ready to bow down to an unjust system.

The law is meant to be fair and give u faith that a fair trial is for everyone.
this is no longer the case the law is now about taking every penny they can drain from you.
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Old 06-02-2011, 12:11 PM   #33
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I was really questioning the freeman path but after this day it has shown me they are hiding something, Yes i lost the case but only through being silenced and having evidence withheld.

I got it wrong and hold my hands up to that, but it without doubt show's they are very aware we are on to them.
gynet, you can ignore this obviously but maybe just consider it for a moment.
"They" are not hiding anything. You made a nuisance of yourself so they put you in the cells for a while. It wasn't because "they" believed you were on to them at all.
You have fallen for a conspiracy theory that has no basis in law whatsoever. For some reason you have convinced yourself that this stuff is true. It isn't. Sometimes you have to be smart enough to realise how dumb you have been.
You could be facing prison, mate. Don't let the internet warriors talk you into jail. Whilst you're in there they will still be sitting comfortably at their computers posting the same old tosh. It won't be them in a cell, it will be you.
And what for? To prove yet again that the fotl take on law is completely wrong.
Just for one moment ask yourself if it is remotely possible that all of this fotl is total bollocks and you have been duped?
If charged, I would suggest take rumpole's advice.
Don't be fooled by others to the point of ending up in jail.

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Old 06-02-2011, 12:39 PM   #34
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Default I am really starting to think that way

I must admit i am really starting to think that way I have been doing a lot of research and i have dug up things a lot would not have found due to my 30yrs in IT, There is without a doubt a lot of corruption and we are being fleeced every day by our so called leaders.

There is some proven truth in the freeman views but to be honest I am ready to walk away. as more often than not it is knowing the law rather than Claiming to be a freeman.

There are many questions still to be answered but i really feel it is time to move on.

I have found evidence and hard evidence of things i did not want to know about this world of ours, although I now question the freeman thing It has given me many things, like the ability to question and not take everything at face value.

Don't get me wrong i still believe that the courts are corrupt and we are being herded but i don't think by claiming the freeman path is the way.

I will be honest with you all i have dug up papers and memos where water is being poisoned and they are covering it up in the name of profit just to name one issue.

I feel lost, the freeman movement made me open my eyes but by opening my eyes I now have so many dead ends with no answers, as well as knowledge I do not want as i feel helpless to do anything about.

I will just play it by ear from now on and see what happens.
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Old 06-02-2011, 12:50 PM   #35
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Obviously you have to follow whichever path feels right for you.
Others have been used by this movement to test out the "legal theories" of the gurus only to learn (the hard way) that it doesn't work. It appears that you won't allow that to happen.
I wish you well.
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Old 06-02-2011, 01:12 PM   #36
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Obviously you have to follow whichever path feels right for you.
Others have been used by this movement to test out the "legal theories" of the gurus only to learn (the hard way) that it doesn't work. It appears that you won't allow that to happen.
I wish you well.
Really? Can you name one, just one who was forced to do the bidding of one of these so called gurus, and who was not in fact doing what they choose to do? Just one who was 'used', and not merely following THIER OWN PATH?

Remember, they had to be forced or otherwise used into doing it by a guru and it has to be a path they did not choose at all. There had to be no FREE WILL employed by them. Can you show me one? Name one? Where is your demand for proof now?
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Old 06-02-2011, 01:40 PM   #37
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Default I am with Rob on this one

I agree with you Rob this is a path followed by ones own beliefs, ever since i started I followed my own path, as there is no way of following anyone else's path as we all do things in a different way.

Don't get me wrong I watched and read a lot of what Rob has done and others they all have some valid points again there where points i did not agree with.

In my opinion There is a lot of good to come out of what is being done if only they could pull together.

As I said I have got a lot out of it in a personal way, as I now feel i can READ a lot better ( this is very important as we have got so used to speed reading we don't always get the real message in papers presented to us)

I can thank Rob for that.

I will defend others by saying If you hear one voice giving a message and follow that message then you are a fool

so to lay blame is wrong in my eyes everyone has a choice.

I still think they are on to something but untill they stop the bitching and fighting I cant see where it is going to go.

I found you can get so far then there is a wall, no answers, I feel the answers are there but while the main point is how do i clear a parking ticket the real issues are not getting looked at

I have found i am at a dead end with it all, I have learned a lot and also wasted a lot of time but the blame lies with me and me alone
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Old 06-02-2011, 01:50 PM   #38
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I have to agree with Roberts last statement, I don't know anyone that was made to do anything on the freeman path that they did not choose to do for themselves.

However, in my experience the freeman path does not work when trying to expose the truth of the blatant corruption inherent within the system. All you will achieve in most cases (as I have been witness to) is denied evidence by the police, set up by the police and court officials and dealt with in your absence even if you do attend the hearing.

If you claim 'Lawful excuse' and can prove your lawful standing under lawful rebellion, no matter how many lawful notices you may have served and no matter how careful you may have been to ensure you have completed 'due process' correctly, you will be either sectioned under the mental health act, incarcerated for contempt of court or heavily fined with no regard for lawful process.

It seems to me that the freeman path is a dead end in this respect, it does work to some degree with regard to financial matters but to my mind this is a mere distraction to the fact that we are living under a treasonous fascist regime. I can only speak of my own experiences of course, and I now see that it is an unwise move to take into court the evidence of the treason committed by our political (so called) representatives. After de-registering my private conveyance and acquiring evidence against the police for compounding treason I have experienced all of the above, including a forged document committed by the prosecution and a solicitor (which I never agreed to of course), claiming that I contracted after my arrest for alleged 'driving offences'.

Now I am faced with an arrest warrant out on me for none arrestable offences, a large fine imposed on me in my absence with no chance of achieving any justice in the court room. So.....anybody that thinks they can lawfully detach themselves from this corrupt society without getting stitched up, is in for a sharp lesson in naivety. Just be aware of that before you act.
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Old 06-02-2011, 02:19 PM   #39
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Really? Can you name one, just one who was forced to do the bidding of one of these so called gurus, and who was not in fact doing what they choose to do? Just one who was 'used', and not merely following THIER OWN PATH?

Remember, they had to be forced or otherwise used into doing it by a guru and it has to be a path they did not choose at all. There had to be no FREE WILL employed by them. Can you show me one? Name one? Where is your demand for proof now?
I've just about had my fill of you and your bullshit.
Did I use the word "force"? Did you read "force" where I wrote "used"?
Vulnerable people are being preyed on here.
They don't need to be forced, they are being sucked into a belief. They are being influenced by many people that don't do any of this stuff themselves, but talk big on the internet.
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Old 06-02-2011, 02:52 PM   #40
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Really? Can you name one, just one who was forced to do the bidding of one of these so called gurus, and who was not in fact doing what they choose to do? Just one who was 'used', and not merely following THIER OWN PATH?

Remember, they had to be forced or otherwise used into doing it by a guru and it has to be a path they did not choose at all. There had to be no FREE WILL employed by them. Can you show me one? Name one? Where is your demand for proof now?
I'm with rob on this too. He can do his thing and others can choose how they want to use any information he puts forward. I would hope that anyone faced with a court appearance would be sure off their facts before trying out anything, after all not everybody takes the advice of their lawyer so why would taking the advice of someone else be any different
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