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Old 04-12-2018, 07:01 AM   #621
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i haven't seen any hard evidence that saville was a freemason but considering his connections i would expect it to be the case. He worked as a hospital orderly so that he could gain access to the morgue to fuck corpses
Lol, the pseudo truther strikes again. NO evidence because he wasnt one. He was also given an honorary green beret by the marines yet he was never one!
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Old 04-12-2018, 07:06 AM   #622
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maybe you are struggling so let me bring you upto speed...

first of all i haven't made anything up. Saville was close to the royals, he was knighted by them and the pope and worked for decades in the BBC. This is all fact

david icke an ex BBC presenter knew that jimmy saville was a pedophile as did others. You can even listen to an interview of johnny rotten speaking about it way back. So people knew and if david knew you can bet your ass that the british police and intelligence service knew especially as david was saying it publically

do you really think the freemasonic establishment would have then let saville get so close to the british royal family and even allowed him to be knighted if they disaproved of what they knew about him?

as for the vatican do you really think they don't do background checks on people before they knight them?

get real man
Lets me help you out as you are struggling. Saville wasnt a freemason. I know it doesnt fit with your satanic world view but their it is. If royals can openly associate themselves with freemasonry then why would a person like Saville try to keep it quiet? they may have admired and supported his public charity work, as most people did, but that doesnt mean knowledge or involvement of his crimes. Thats just what you want to believe.

Did Icke never report this stuff to the police? just talking about it doesnt really get things done, hoping that somebody else might deal with the problem. if he had proof it should have been his priority to make it a matter of police record and even if it went nowhere he could say he tried.
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Old 04-12-2018, 08:11 AM   #623
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Savile may or may not have been a Freemason. Its not really relevant - he was a monster who raped & abused children for decades and his crimes were ignored, despite the heads of the BBC and police inspectors being made aware of those crimes.

So were those police men, the inspectors that he was so pally with and the BBC high brass masons?

Very very likely.

And just how much was hushed up from on high? Well tbf all of it. People were silenced. Did that come from Buckingham palace, highgrove, Windsor or chequers?

With all those households are you expecting that no masons or brotherhoods were involved in the coverup?

And with so much protection the question remains why did a masonic led fraternity protect savile unless they were involved?

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Old 04-12-2018, 01:05 PM   #624
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Savile may or may not have been a Freemason. Its not really relevant - he was a monster who raped & abused children for decades and his crimes were ignored, despite the heads of the BBC and police inspectors being made aware of those crimes.

So were those police men, the inspectors that he was so pally with and the BBC high brass masons?

Very very likely.

And just how much was hushed up from on high? Well tbf all of it. People were silenced. Did that come from Buckingham palace, highgrove, Windsor or chequers?

With all those households are you expecting that no masons or brotherhoods were involved in the coverup?

And with so much protection the question remains why did a masonic led fraternity protect savile unless they were involved?
See what you do here? you use speculation and opinion to condemn an entire organsisation.

Its not impossible that some police had an idea of what was going on and its not impossible that some might haev been freemasons. At the end of the day, freemasonry cant tell a person how to do their job and people cant take their professional lives into the lodge. Those are basic rules. Lets face it, even coppers get their hands tied and are blocked trying to do their duty so what if a masonic copper wanted to prosecute but was blocked from doing that? its not impossible that such a situation existed either. The truth is that people deliberatly remain ignorant of what freemasonry is and how it works because actually knowing what really goes on would make a very poor conspiracy theory. Much more fun to pretend the masons run it all. Pseudo truthers pretend to want truth but really only want to hear what they believe.

Amazing isnt it, that wave can take somebody elses thread and make it about something else in order to get at freemasons. Such a bitter person I think.

So why dont you tell me something. What is so special about Saville that so much apparent protection would be given to him? he wasnt a mason, so what else? he wasnt a politician or a royal either. So what makes him so valuable? you tell me that.
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Old 04-12-2018, 04:37 PM   #625
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Amazing isnt it, that wave can take somebody elses thread and make it about something else in order to get at freemasons. Such a bitter person I think.
you sound like the bitter person

i'm simply discussing a frequently brought up element of the jack the ripper murders which is that the police were run by freemasons and that the murders appeared to have an occultic element to them

so all i'm saying is that if there was a cover up of some sort which some researchers suspect then you have to look at what kind of culture could exist within britain at that time to enable such a cover up to exist and we have plenty of context in recent times to understand how the police can be ordered by the freemasonic hierarchy to cover up crimes

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Originally Posted by JustMe418 View Post
So why dont you tell me something. What is so special about Saville that so much apparent protection would be given to him?
he procured children for powerful pedophiles

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Originally Posted by JustMe418 View Post
he wasnt a mason, so what else? he wasnt a politician or a royal either. So what makes him so valuable? you tell me that.
i read somewhere that he was a knight of malta aka the knights of st john

when the knights templar were disbanded in britain they simply decamped into the knights of st john and carried on their operations through that order

freemasonry is a continuation of templarism and so are the knights of st john
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Old 04-12-2018, 04:51 PM   #626
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Charles Warren

General Sir Charles Warren, GCMG, KCB, FRS (7 February 1840 – 21 January 1927) was an officer in the British Royal Engineers. He was one of the earliest European archaeologists of the Biblical Holy Land, and particularly of the Temple Mount. Much of his military service was spent in British South Africa. Previously he was police chief, the head of the London Metropolitan Police, from 1886 to 1888 during the Jack the Ripper murders. His command in combat during the Second Boer War was criticised, but he achieved considerable success during his long life in his military and civil posts.

Warren was a devout Anglican and an enthusiastic Freemason, becoming the third District Grand Master of the Eastern Archipelago in Singapore and the founding Master of the Quatuor Coronati Lodge.

In 1867, Warren was recruited by the Palestine Exploration Fund to conduct Biblical archaeology "reconnaissance" with a view of further research and excavation to be undertaken later in Ottoman Syria, but more specifically the Holy Land or Biblical Palestine. He conducted the first major excavations of Jerusalem's Temple Mount, thereby ushering in a new age of Biblical archaeology. His most significant discovery was a water shaft, now known as Warren's Shaft, and a series of tunnels underneath the Temple Mount.[2] His "Letters" from the expedition would be published later as a journal. In 1870, ill-health forced Warren to return to England.

In 1880, Warren returned to England to become Chief Instructor in Surveying at the School of Military Engineering. He held this post until 1884, but it was interrupted in 1882, when the Admiralty sent him to Sinai to discover what had happened to Professor Edward Henry Palmer's archaeological expedition. He discovered that the expedition members had been robbed and murdered, located their remains, and brought their killers to justice. For this, he was created a Knight Commander of the Order of St Michael and St George (KCMG) on 24 May 1883 and was also awarded a Order of the Medjidie, Third Class by the Egyptian government. In 1883, he was also made a Knight of Justice of the Order of St. John of Jerusalem, and in June 1884 he was elected a Fellow of the Royal Society (FRS).

He had given an order that if another murder occurred, nobody was to enter the scene – a strange turn of phrase as the four previous victims had all been found in the open street – until he arrived to direct the investigation. Consequently, when the murder of Kelly was discovered by a rent collector who looked in through the window of her room in a Spitalfields lodging house, the police did not enter the room for some three hours because, unaware of his resignation, they were waiting for Warren to arrive

He was appointed a Knight Commander of the Order of the Bath (KCB) on 7 January 1888.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Warren
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Old 04-12-2018, 04:53 PM   #627
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Quatuor Coronati Lodge

Quatuor Coronati Lodge No. 2076 (its Latin title meaning Four Crowned Ones) is a Masonic lodge in London dedicated to Masonic research. Founded in 1886,[1] the lodge meets at Freemasons' Hall, Great Queen Street.

The name of the Lodge is taken from lines 497 - 534 of the Regius Poem. This poem from circa 1390 is one of the oldest Masonic documents.

Nine masons (Charles Warren, William Harry Rylands, Robert Freke Gould, The Revd Adolphus Frederick Alexander Woodford, Walter Besant, John Paul Rylands, Major Sisson Cooper Pratt, William James Hughan, and George William Speth), dissatisfied with the way the history of Freemasonry had been expounded in the past, founded the lodge, obtaining a warrant in 1884. Due to the absence of the first Master, Sir Charles Warren, on a diplomatic mission in Southern Africa, the lodge was not formally inaugurated until two years later. They insisted on using an evidence-based approach to the study of masonic history. As such, their approach was new and unusual, and they intended that the results should "replace the imaginative writings of earlier authors on the history of Freemasonry."[2] This began what is now called the "authentic school" of Masonic research
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quatuor_Coronati_Lodge
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Old 04-12-2018, 04:58 PM   #628
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Walter Besant

Sir Walter Besant (14 August 1836 – 9 June 1901), was a novelist and historian. William Henry Besant was his brother, and another brother, Frank, was the husband of Annie Besant.

Besant was a freemason, joining the Lodge of Harmony in Mauritius in 1862. He became Master of Marquis of Dalhousie Lodge, London in 1873, having joined in 1869. He was one of the founders of the first Masonic research lodge, Quatuor Coronati Lodge No 2076, of which he was the first treasurer from 1886.[2] He was also one of the founders[3] and first chair[4] of the Society of Authors in 1884. He was knighted in the 1895 Birthday Honours.

He was treasurer of the 'Atlantic Union', an association which sought to improve social relations between Britons and Americans
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Besant

Annie Besant

Annie Besant, née Wood (1 October 1847 – 20 September 1933) was a British socialist, theosophist, women's rights activist, writer, orator, and supporter of both Irish and Indian self-rule.

she became involved with union actions, including the Bloody Sunday demonstration and the London matchgirls strike of 1888. She was a leading speaker for both the Fabian Society and the Marxist Social Democratic Federation (SDF).

In 1890 Besant met Helena Blavatsky, and over the next few years her interest in theosophy grew, whilst her interest in secular matters waned. She became a member of the Theosophical Society and a prominent lecturer on the subject. As part of her theosophy-related work, she travelled to India.

In 1902, she established the first overseas Lodge of the International Order of Co-Freemasonry, Le Droit Humain. Over the next few years she established lodges in many parts of the British Empire. In 1907 she became president of the Theosophical Society, whose international headquarters were, by then, located in Adyar, Madras, (Chennai).

She also became involved in politics in India, joining the Indian National Congress. When World War I broke out in 1914, she helped launch the Home Rule League to campaign for democracy in India, and dominion status within the British Empire. This led to her election as president of the India National Congress, in late 1917. In the late 1920s, Besant travelled to the United States with her protégé and adopted son Jiddu Krishnamurti, who she claimed was the new Messiah and incarnation of Buddha. Krishnamurti rejected these claims in 1929.

Political activism

For Besant, politics, friendship and love were always closely intertwined. Her decision in favour of Socialism came about through a close relationship with George Bernard Shaw, a struggling young Irish author living in London, and a leading light of the Fabian Society. Annie was impressed by his work and grew very close to him too in the early 1880s. It was Besant who made the first move, by inviting Shaw to live with her. This he refused, but it was Shaw who sponsored Besant to join the Fabian Society. In its early days, the society was a gathering of people exploring spiritual, rather than political, alternatives to the capitalist system.[14] Besant began to write for the Fabians. This new commitment – and her relationship with Shaw – deepened the split between Besant and Bradlaugh, who was an individualist and opposed to Socialism of any sort. While he defended free speech at any cost, he was very cautious about encouraging working-class militancy.[15]

During 1884, Besant had developed a very close friendship with Edward Aveling, a young socialist teacher who lived in her house for a time. Aveling was a scholarly figure and it was he who first translated the important works of Marx into English. He eventually went to live with Eleanor Marx, daughter of Karl Marx. Aveling was a great influence on Besant's thinking and she supported his work, yet she moved towards the rival Fabians at that time. Aveling and Eleanor Marx had joined the Marxist Social Democratic Federation and then the Socialist League, a small Marxist splinter group which formed around the artist William Morris.

It seems that Morris played a large part in converting Besant to Marxism, but it was to the SDF, not his Socialist League, that she turned in 1888. She remained a member for a number of years and became one of its best speakers. She was still a member of the Fabian Society; neither she nor anyone else seemed to think the two movements incompatible at the time.

Soon after joining the Marxists, Besant was elected to the London School Board in 1888.[19] Women at that time were not able to take part in parliamentary politics, but had been brought into the local electorate in 1881.

Co-freemasonry

Besant saw freemasonry, in particular Co-Freemasonry, as an extension of her interest in the rights of women and the greater brotherhood of man and saw co-freemasonry as a "movement which practised true brotherhood, in which women and men worked side by side for the perfecting of humanity. She immediately wanted to be admitted to this organisation", known now as the International Order of Freemasonry for Men and Women, "Le Droit Humain".

The link was made in 1902 by the theosophist Francesca Arundale, who accompanied Besant to Paris, along with six friends. "They were all initiated, passed and raised into the first three degrees and Annie returned to England, bearing a Charter and founded there the first Lodge of International Mixed Masonry, Le Droit Humain." Besant eventually became the Order's Most Puissant Grand Commander, and was a major influence in the international growth of the Order.[27]

Besant met fellow theosophist Charles Webster Leadbeater in London in April 1894. They became close co-workers in the theosophical movement and would remain so for the rest of their lives. Leadbeater claimed clairvoyance and reputedly helped Besant become clairvoyant herself in the following year. In a letter dated 25 August 1895 to Francisca Arundale, Leadbeater narrates how Besant became clairvoyant. Together they clairvoyantly investigated the universe, matter, thought-forms, and the history of mankind, and co-authored a book called Occult Chemistry.

In 1906 Leadbeater became the centre of controversy when it emerged that he had advised the practice of masturbation to some boys under his care and spiritual instruction.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annie_Besant
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Old 04-12-2018, 05:04 PM   #629
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Blavatsky had stated in 1889 that the main purpose of establishing the society was to prepare humanity for the future reception of a "torch-bearer of Truth", an emissary of a hidden Spiritual Hierarchy that, according to theosophists, guides the evolution of mankind.[33] This was repeated by Besant as early as 1896; Besant came to believe in the imminent appearance of the "emissary", who was identified by theosophists as the so-called World Teacher.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annie_Besant
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Old 04-12-2018, 05:09 PM   #630
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Reverend Adolphus Frederick Alexander Woodford

Adolphus Frederick Alexander Woodford (1821–1887) was the eldest son of Alexander George Woodford, a career soldier who was already a hero of Waterloo, and would rise to Field Marshal, ending his days in command of Chelsea Hospital. After a short stay in the Coldstream Guards, Adolphus entered the Anglican Church, having the living of Swillington from 1847–1872. On leaving the Army, he also became a Freemason, rising to become Grand Chaplain in 1863, commuting from Yorkshire to his London duties.[1]

After moving to London, his editorship of the Freemason ignited an interest in the study of Masonic history, and led to the establishment of Quatuor Coronati Lodge, dedicated to masonic research. Woodford was the first Immediate Past Master of the lodge, and as such convened the lodge for much of its first two years, during the frequent absences of Charles Warren, the master.[2] Just before his death, towards the end of 1887, he passed on a set of coded papers which resulted in the establishment of the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn.

Lastly, he played at least some part in the establishment of the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, passing the cipher manuscripts from which it was founded to his friend William Wynn Westcott shortly before his death.[8] He had already made a strong case that the mystic and philosophical elements which allowed Freemasonry to evolve from a purely operative to a speculative society were likely to have been imported from some aspects of the Hermeticism practised during the Renaissance
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolph...ander_Woodford
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Old 04-12-2018, 05:14 PM   #631
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William James Hughan

1911 Encyclopædia Britannica/Freemasonry

History

The premier work on the subject was published in London in 1723, the Rev. James Anderson being the author of the historical portion, introductory to the first “Book of Constitutions” of the original Grand Lodge of England. Dr Anderson gravely states that “Grand Master Moses often marshalled the Israelites into a regular and general lodge, whilst in the wilderness. . . . King Solomon was Grand Master of the lodge at Jerusalem.[1] . . . Nebuchadnezzar became the Grand Master Mason,” &c., devoting many more pages to similar absurdities, but dismisses the important modern innovation (1716–1717) of a Grand Lodge with a few lines noteworthy for their brief and indefinite character.
https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/1911_...ca/Freemasonry
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Old 04-12-2018, 06:40 PM   #632
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To start of with, the Grand Secretary, Peter, who was / is a mason spoke highly of Savile & angrily refuted the rumours hes on record as saying savile was a 'nice guy'

You say he was no mason, but he was great mates with at least one high ranking mason, police inspectors, politicians & royalty. That is fact.

I seem to recall GS saying he regularly had savile round for dinner. He supported savile on this very forum - one of your own. I can dig the posts out when I get to a PC, if it pleases you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustMe418 View Post
See what you do here? you use speculation and opinion to condemn an entire organsisation.

Its not impossible that some police had an idea of what was going on and its not impossible that some might haev been freemasons. At the end of the day, freemasonry cant tell a person how to do their job and people cant take their professional lives into the lodge. Those are basic rules. Lets face it, even coppers get their hands tied and are blocked trying to do their duty so what if a masonic copper wanted to prosecute but was blocked from doing that? its not impossible that such a situation existed either. The truth is that people deliberatly remain ignorant of what freemasonry is and how it works because actually knowing what really goes on would make a very poor conspiracy theory. Much more fun to pretend the masons run it all. Pseudo truthers pretend to want truth but really only want to hear what they believe.

Amazing isnt it, that wave can take somebody elses thread and make it about something else in order to get at freemasons. Such a bitter person I think.

So why dont you tell me something. What is so special about Saville that so much apparent protection would be given to him? he wasnt a mason, so what else? he wasnt a politician or a royal either. So what makes him so valuable? you tell me that.
What makes savile so valuable? If he's supplying people in power with children, he's on record as saying he 'fixed it' for a girl to meet prince Philip by taking her 'to the big house' and went on to say a palace guard said 'who's going to stop you?'

So, if he's supplying police inspectors, high ranking masons, police officers, politicians and royalty with kiddies to fiddle with - that makes him not only valuable but untouchable.

And as I've said here many times, if BBC brass were in the know (which they were) if he'd been questioned over the murder of prostitutes in Leeds, which he was, and given his association with Peter Sutcliffe, then prince Charles' security detail would have been aware of all of this & more, so would Thatcher, so would Edwina Currie who handed him the keys to Broadmoor, and yet these people - inc the future king of england - would have been aware to.

With royalty and the pm in his pocket, you have to ask what makes him so valuable, why he was protected by masons?

And to end, savile wasn't the only paedo Prince Charles was mates with, he's also been associated with a paedo bishop, Epstein & let's not forget his bro' Andy....

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Old 04-12-2018, 10:58 PM   #633
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Because he wasnt a freemason?
See my other post that’s all I have to say on the matter. The one you conveniently ignored.

Wrong again lol.
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Old 05-12-2018, 05:28 AM   #634
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See what you do here? you use speculation and opinion to condemn an entire organsisation.
i did nothing of the sort.

Firstly, i said that he was mates with some very influential people.

And i then went on to say that it is not beyond the bounds of reason that some of those people were freeemasons.

In-fact it is more than likely that the BBC high brass and Police chiefs, as well as police officers who found themselves A) dealing with complaints against Savile and / or B) were pally with him and then closed ranks and protected him because they were in the 'boys club.'

It's absolutely unthinkable that Savile was not connected to the masons, whether he was actually one or not.

Peter the Grand Secretary was on the forum back in the day extolling what a great guy Savile was - was he aware of the torture this monster put hundreds of children through?

Well, given that his crimes were exposed to BBC high brass and that he was subjected to police investigations, his friendship with Peter Sutcliffe and the open accusations from people like John Lydon - i'd be surprised if Peter and other mason's weren't aware of those crimes too.

Quote:
Its not impossible that some police had an idea of what was going on and its not impossible that some might haev been freemasons. At the end of the day, freemasonry cant tell a person how to do their job and people cant take their professional lives into the lodge. Those are basic rules.
So, are you saying, and are you expecting me and the rest of this forum to believe that one freemason doesn't advise another freemason as to the best action to take in their public jobs and proffesions?

Are you saying that no freemason ever did a favour for another freemason or had a hand in their advancement though their profession, that no freemason ever turned a blind eye to anothers discretion?


Quote:
Lets face it, even coppers get their hands tied and are blocked trying to do their duty so what if a masonic copper wanted to prosecute but was blocked from doing that?
So what? You are asking, in this instance so what if a copper was advised not to pursue a line of enquiry made against Savile?

Are you really asking that, in that instance - because it certainly looks like you are.


Quote:
So why dont you tell me something. What is so special about Saville that so much apparent protection would be given to him? he wasnt a mason, so what else? he wasnt a politician or a royal either. So what makes him so valuable? you tell me that.
The procurement of children, keeping secrets 'in house' - there's two very obvious ones.

But moreover, why don't you tell me / us something - because you certainly seem to be struggling with this one - why did Savile's crimes go un-investigated for decades, why weren't his crimes investigated by the BBC high brass and the police - given the likelihood that those charged with such investigative processes (the bbc and police heads) were connected with freemasonry?

Tell us, if it was covered up - and it was, for decades, then who did that covering up, if it wasn't freemasons?

And no, i'm not saying every freemason covered it up - but undoubtedly many of those who did cover it up were connected to the boys club.

Peter the Grand Secretary, may not have covered it up directly - but he cheered Savile on in the face of the allegations - and when the story really broke in the MSN he turned tail and ran, never to return to the forum.

One of your own, who openly supported a paedophile rapist. How many more did the same because of the little boys club?

And, more to the point - how many more monsters are being hidden because of the secret hand shake brigade? How many more crimes have been shoved under the carpet for a brother?

Because they certainly buried the crimes & investigations against Savile - and please don't try & tell us those responsible for burying it all, for turning a blind eye were not masons because for masons not to be involved is a ridiculous concept.

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Old 05-12-2018, 10:30 AM   #635
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you sound like the bitter person

i'm simply discussing a frequently brought up element of the jack the ripper murders which is that the police were run by freemasons and that the murders appeared to have an occultic element to them

so all i'm saying is that if there was a cover up of some sort which some researchers suspect then you have to look at what kind of culture could exist within britain at that time to enable such a cover up to exist and we have plenty of context in recent times to understand how the police can be ordered by the freemasonic hierarchy to cover up crimes
Speculation at best

Quote:
he procured children for powerful pedophiles
Because these powerful people cant get such things themselves? that is such a lame speculation you offer.

Quote:
i read somewhere that he was a knight of malta aka the knights of st john
You read somewhere? must be true then

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when the knights templar were disbanded in britain they simply decamped into the knights of st john and carried on their operations through that order

freemasonry is a continuation of templarism and so are the knights of st john
So if this were so then why are freemasons not sworn to the same oaths as the templars? why dont freemasons have to be christians as were the templars, who were an official part of the catholic church?
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Old 05-12-2018, 10:47 AM   #636
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i did nothing of the sort.

Firstly, i said that he was mates with some very influential people.

And i then went on to say that it is not beyond the bounds of reason that some of those people were freeemasons.

In-fact it is more than likely that the BBC high brass and Police chiefs, as well as police officers who found themselves A) dealing with complaints against Savile and / or B) were pally with him and then closed ranks and protected him because they were in the 'boys club.'

It's absolutely unthinkable that Savile was not connected to the masons, whether he was actually one or not.

Peter the Grand Secretary was on the forum back in the day extolling what a great guy Savile was - was he aware of the torture this monster put hundreds of children through?

Well, given that his crimes were exposed to BBC high brass and that he was subjected to police investigations, his friendship with Peter Sutcliffe and the open accusations from people like John Lydon - i'd be surprised if Peter and other mason's weren't aware of those crimes too.



So, are you saying, and are you expecting me and the rest of this forum to believe that one freemason doesn't advise another freemason as to the best action to take in their public jobs and proffesions?

Are you saying that no freemason ever did a favour for another freemason or had a hand in their advancement though their profession, that no freemason ever turned a blind eye to anothers discretion?




So what? You are asking, in this instance so what if a copper was advised not to pursue a line of enquiry made against Savile?

Are you really asking that, in that instance - because it certainly looks like you are.




The procurement of children, keeping secrets 'in house' - there's two very obvious ones.

But moreover, why don't you tell me / us something - because you certainly seem to be struggling with this one - why did Savile's crimes go un-investigated for decades, why weren't his crimes investigated by the BBC high brass and the police - given the likelihood that those charged with such investigative processes (the bbc and police heads) were connected with freemasonry?

Tell us, if it was covered up - and it was, for decades, then who did that covering up, if it wasn't freemasons?

And no, i'm not saying every freemason covered it up - but undoubtedly many of those who did cover it up were connected to the boys club.

Peter the Grand Secretary, may not have covered it up directly - but he cheered Savile on in the face of the allegations - and when the story really broke in the MSN he turned tail and ran, never to return to the forum.

One of your own, who openly supported a paedophile rapist. How many more did the same because of the little boys club?

And, more to the point - how many more monsters are being hidden because of the secret hand shake brigade? How many more crimes have been shoved under the carpet for a brother?

Because they certainly buried the crimes & investigations against Savile - and please don't try & tell us those responsible for burying it all, for turning a blind eye were not masons because for masons not to be involved is a ridiculous concept.
So any cover up needs to be down to freemasons? that is such a bullshit. People dont need to be part of such organisations to do evil and cover up for each other.

Freemasons are not allowed to join under the guise of gaining financial and material advantage. That is different from being helped by somebody else to better your ability at something. No different to golf buddies helping each other. If any freemason decides to ignore the rules then they are charlatans. The reality is there will always be people who will use any situation for personal advantage and there will be some masons who do, but this general tarring of all masons because of the behaviour of some is morally and ethically wrong. Also, as I have said many times, masons take obligations to uphold the law and to not help any member who is acting against the law. Thats the oath they take, whether they follow it to the letter is a matter of their personal integrity or lack of.

Whoever that Peter was, he wasnt the spokesperson for all freemasons was he. He was clearly wrong in his views. Why dont you check Peters posts and see if he was actually a UGLE mason as there are more than one UK grand lodge and they dont all see eye to eye.

I think that blaming masons for all this wrong doing is ridiculous for a number of reasons. The effort to connect Saville to the masons is purely a sleazy attempt by anti masons to defame the organisation as whole. He wasnt a mason, end of! if any masons were involved n a cover up they should be banged up and ejected from the lodge too as they would definitely be acting against the ethical code of masonry.
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Old 05-12-2018, 11:34 AM   #637
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Speculation at best
well that's what needs to be established through an honest and objective analysis of the data

but the problem is people like you because mark you are unable to be objective

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Because these powerful people cant get such things themselves? that is such a lame speculation you offer.
if someone powerful visits for example a childrens home then there is a trace. Their name goes in the logbook

Jimmy saville was accused by the sun newspaper of having visited the haute de la garenne childrens school on the isle of jersey but he denied it so the newspaper then published a photo of him at the school at which point he had to concede that he had been there

As a childrens entertainer and a DJ he had access to many young people and it wasn't such a strange thing for him to be visiting places like that. He was perfectly placed to become a fixer for powerful people who need a go between to place distance between themselves and the act thereby providing them with plausible deniability. This is why saville was protected for decades while he was alive by the freemasonic higher ups in the british police who would have surely been aware of his activities as many people had approached the police about them

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You read somewhere? must be true then
He had the Cross of Merit of the Order pro merito Melitensi.

See list of recipients of the Order pro merito Melitensi of the Sovereign Military Order of Malta published in the Annual Report of the British Association, Sovereign Military Order of Malta, 2010.

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So if this were so then why are freemasons not sworn to the same oaths as the templars? why dont freemasons have to be christians as were the templars, who were an official part of the catholic church?
well this is an interesting area of discussion

so i can only give my limited take on these issues as I'm not a professional researcher. I'm an armchair researcher who relies on a lot of secondary sources so i am aware of my limitations but my hope is that technically proficient researchers who are competent at weedling out primary source information could look into my claims and add further detail

So imo the christian reformation that created protestantism was largely a revolution carried out by the templar network across europe

If you look at the freemasons i mentioned above who were members of the quator coronati lodge some of them are reverends of the anglican church which is the kind of english version of the catholic church. It's like catholicism-lite

The templars weren't a part of the catholic church as you assert. They were granted a 'rule' by the catholic church which is a kind of licence to operate but they were never christians as most people would understand christianity

Christianity is in fact hated by some jewish people because it was a world religion that denied the messiahship of the jewish people who believed that they alone were gods chosen people with a special covenant

Jesus messed up that dynamic by saying people should not only love their neighbour ie other jews but also love their enemies ie gentiles

This is i suggest why people like the jewish comedian sarah silverman can be heard saying she's glad jesus was killed because his doctrine denies jewish people of their specialness. The talmud even says he should burn in excrement for all eternity

Christianity in effect offers an open door to heaven for all believers not just jewish ones and that goes fundamentaly against the jewish idea that only jewish people are chosen

The templars are jewish bloodlines that some trace to the essenes who themselves had a radical plan for global domination. The essenes used a resurrection initiation through which the person was said to be 'born again' into their faith eg lazarus who was raised from spiritual death ie being outside of the essene community back into the spiritual life of their community

The freemasons use the same ritual in their third degree

have there been changes? Yes of course and I have spoken elsewhere on the forum about how the degrees of freemasonry have been changed. Ward lists degrees that covered the story of the 9 templars digging under temple mount

However these have been removed from modern freemasonry that was re-organised under the grand lodges

Further to this re-ordering the people i listed above who started the quator coronati lodge also removed what they claimed was myth from freemasonic lore in favour of what they called 'empirical' evidence

However lets bare in mind that their key member charles warren who headed the ripper case himself led an expedition to dig under temple mount so clearly he DID believe in the old myths of freemasonry that tie it directly to templarism

Lets also consider that their research lodge was named after 4 jewish freemasons who were part of a movement of infiltration by the jewish freemasons into the roman building guilds which i suggest led eventually to a takeover of the catholic church itself

One of the founders of the quator coronati lodge was involved in the foundation of the hermetic order of the golden dawn which some people tie to the rothschilds and to sabbateanism. Crowley was a member of the golden dawn and he certainly seemed to set out to break taboos in the spirit of the sabbatean doctrine of holiness through sin which some people around here would probably call 'archontic inversion'. The ultimate societal taboos are of course infanticide and pedophilia
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Old 05-12-2018, 12:20 PM   #638
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Blavatsky had stated in 1889 that the main purpose of establishing the society was to prepare humanity for the future reception of a "torch-bearer of Truth", an emissary of a hidden Spiritual Hierarchy that, according to theosophists, guides the evolution of mankind.[33] This was repeated by Besant as early as 1896; Besant came to believe in the imminent appearance of the "emissary", who was identified by theosophists as the so-called World Teacher.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annie_Besant
i suggest that the 'messiah' that will raise jewish people upto pre-eminance above all other peoples and which will enable the building of their third temple will be artificial intelligence

I suggest that the 5G SMART grid that is currently being built quietly around us will be run on artificial intelligence

I suggest that the military will be increasingly turned into robots and drones as will the police and that these will all fall under the control of artificial intelligence

I suggest that humans will be enouraged to implant technology like neural laces and microchips into their body to interface with the artificial intelligence thereby giving it power over them

I suggest currency will be digitised and controlled by the state through universal basic income which will be managed by the artificial intelligence

I suggest that every citizen will be given a social credit score by the artificial intelligence that will then determine what goods and services and currency that citizen may access

I suggest vehicles will become autonomous and run by artificial intelligence

I suggest it will be called something like.....'lucifer'
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Old 05-12-2018, 12:54 PM   #639
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Old 05-12-2018, 01:02 PM   #640
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were the knights templar essenes? In which case did they disperse when the jewish temple was sacked by the romans in 70AD?

Did they bury their scrolls at that time knowing that trouble was coming?
Did they then flee to jewish trading posts around the med like marseilles in the south of france?
Did they then intermarry with frankish nobility?
Did they then form the knights templar?
Did they form the city of london banking district?
Did they have scrolls buried in temple mount itself that the jack the ripper chief inspector charles warren went to to carry out an archeological dig knowing that the knights templar aristocratic bloodlines (developed in europe) had already dug for?

The Scroll of the war of the sons of light with the sons of darkness

''The recently unearthed desert retreat of the Dead sea scrolls community, near the preaching place of john the baptist, belongs to this time; and surely it is no wonder (since all believing jews supposed in that period that the history of their own people was the destiny of creation) that the idea should have gained currency that the end of the world was at hand; indeed that the final war and upheaval of 'the birth-throes of the messiah', terrible Armageddon, was already in full course. Mythology had become history and prophets were recognising on every side radiant miracles both of promise and of doom...''

''...a fourth and very different sect called the essenes, who supposed themselves to be members of the final generation of the world, and they were in training for that ultimate moment of the lord when the messiah would appear. The war was to terminate in victory, as a result largely of their own participation on the side of the principle of light, and the earth then would be renewed.''

''The dating of the Dead Sea scrolls now is fixed between c.200 BC and the time of the first jewish revolt against rome 66-70AD. They are the oldest hebrew manuscripts now known.''

''Writings original to the essene sect, of which the chief examples are the following:

A) The Scroll of the war of the sons of light with the sons of darkness

This is a nearly perfect scroll of leather, more than nine feet long, six inches wide, wrapped in a covering of parchment. In it is projected in detail, a forty year war plan, by which the essenes were to conquer the world for god in three military campaigns. The first two campaigns were to be against the Mesopotamia [modern day iraq], syria, egypt and the other immediate neighbours, which together would last six years, after which there was to follow a sabbatical year of rest. Then the campaign was to be undertaken against the more distant peoples of the world, and would require twenty nine years.''

-Joseph Campbell, Occidental Mythology
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