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Old 23-02-2019, 12:27 PM   #921
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Originally Posted by iamawaveofthesea View Post
this hearing isn't from 1987:

US Air Force Admits to Using HAARP For Weather Modification in Defense Hearing

That is a clip discussing the closing or alternative funding for the HAARP facility. I has since been re-activated. I heard one of its transmissions last year.

Where in that video does the US Air Force or anyone else admit to using HAARP for weather modification? There is a brief mention of "ionospheric management" - which is probably a clumsy term that can be misinterpreted - but we've already discussed here what and where the ionosphere is.


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Old 23-02-2019, 12:35 PM   #922
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That is a clip discussing the closing or alternative funding for the HAARP facility. I has since been re-activated. I heard one of its transmissions last year.

Where in that video does the US Air Force or anyone else admit to using HAARP for weather modification? There is a brief mention of "ionospheric management" - which is probably a clumsy term that can be misinterpreted - but we've already discussed here what and where the ionosphere is..
he uses the word 'control' in that they can control the ionosphere

''An increase of 1 Celsius in the atmosphere is more than enough to initiate a significant weather perturbation. Bear in mind that all gases move from high to low pressure, and gas pressure is directly proportional to its temperature. In short, if one heats up at least three points in the atmosphere, the center region having relatively lower pressure than those three heated points will become the eye of the storm. Three competing forces moving towards a common region can only be resolved through a downward spiral rotation, the cooler gases being heavier than the former. Depending on the amount of energy being used, the whole process could take days.''
https://geopolitics.co/2015/06/06/us...ntrol-weather/
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Old 23-02-2019, 12:37 PM   #923
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The aluminium particles have to be at least a quarter of a wavelength long at the radio frequency in use to do anything. (See chaff or window in relation to radar. It can even be metal-coated plastic.)

That only reflects or scatters the radio signals. I think the US has experimented in this to try and create a sort of artificial ionosphere at much lower levels. But the bits disperse and fall to the ground. However, the ionosphere is not a critical part of global communications as it was up until the 1960s/70s. Fiber optic cables and satellites are used now.
right but if you are bouncing radio waves off the ionosphere and you have created a reflective screen using reflective particulates in the atmosphere, beneath the ionosphere, then you are then bouncing those radio waves back towards the ionosphere, off your artificially created reflective screen, thereby increasing the heating of the ionosphere?
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Old 23-02-2019, 12:47 PM   #924
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HAARP can be used for geoengineering?

Geoengineering with Diamond Dust and HAARP: Noctilucent Cloud Formation Rising!
A crazy idea posed in 2012 by the Artic Methane Emergency Group is now seeming like reality: turn atmospheric methane into diamond dust to cool the planet using ionospheric heaters!
By James Franklin Lee Jr.

The main MHZ frequency range (High Frequency Band 3 – 30 MHZ) of the powerful IRI transmitter is slightly different from the 13.56 MHZ needed to break down the methane. However it is very powerful with a 5.1 Giga watt effective radial power at maximum output. The Ionospheric Research Instrument (IRI) at HAARP transmits over the range 2.8 MHZ to 10 MHZ slightly less than the 13.56 MHZ used to break down methane but as mentioned previously if the IRI transmitted a 10 MHz carrier waves modulated by a 3.56 MHz signal it will generate an Upper Side Frequency of 13.56 MHz which is the methane destruction frequency (Penguin Dictionary of Physics 2000).

Noctilucent clouds which are common in the Arctic form from water condensing around meteorite dust in the mesosphere above 50 km altitude and are becoming more and more abundant and are being seen at much lower latitudes. The increase in the methane concentration in the stratosphere and its oxidation in the mesosphere is resulting in more water at these high altitudes and an increase in the noctilucent clouds. The noctilucent clouds help reflect the suns heat back into space so if we can break down more methane with the HAARP or Lucy transmitters we should generate more clouds and thus help reverse global warming by:-

a) Getting rid of the high global warming potential methane at low altitudes and in the stratospheric global warming veil.

b) Generating sunshine reflecting noctilucent clouds in increasing amounts in the mesosphere which will reflect the suns energy back into space.

The HAARP facility has discovered what they call Polar Mesosphere Summer Echoes which are elusive phenomena which may be due to a thicker development of noctilucent clouds in the Arctic summer due to the increasing methane build up. These echoes are detected with the IRI transmitter when it is used as a radar with one 28 MHZ radar and two other VHF radars of 49 MHZ and 139 MHZ. If we could transmit 13.56 MHZ on the IRI transmitter and use the other radars and optical cameras to look for reflections from noctilucent clouds formed from the breakdown of methane in a circular zone above the HAARP transmitter we should be able to effectively test the system. There ought to be a buildup of the noctilucent clouds in the area where the HAARP transmissions are focused on the ionosphere. If it works there are 4 other similar facilities in the world (Hipas, Alaska; Arecibo, Puerto Rico, EISCAT, Norway and Sura, Russia) where they could immediately attack the atmospheric methane as well.
https://climateviewer.com/2018/08/07...mation-rising/
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Old 23-02-2019, 12:57 PM   #925
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Originally Posted by iamawaveofthesea View Post
he uses the word 'control' in that they can control the ionosphere

''An increase of 1 Celsius in the atmosphere is more than enough to initiate a significant weather perturbation. Bear in mind that all gases move from high to low pressure, and gas pressure is directly proportional to its temperature. In short, if one heats up at least three points in the atmosphere, the center region having relatively lower pressure than those three heated points will become the eye of the storm. Three competing forces moving towards a common region can only be resolved through a downward spiral rotation, the cooler gases being heavier than the former. Depending on the amount of energy being used, the whole process could take days.''
https://geopolitics.co/2015/06/06/us...ntrol-weather/
Interesting, but it's still not a document describing the heating of the troposphere where the weather is. Unfortunately it's written by non-technical writers who don't understand what they are writing about. Likening HAARP to a microwave oven is nonsense. For example, have you any idea how much energy would be required to raise the temperature of a section of atmosphere by 1C? No neither have I, but it's just the sort of thing that the sun can do...

Quote: "...is that the voltage needed to transmit the same microwave frequency signal is in the range of hundreds of million volts due to the amount of distance that the same signal must traverse between the antenna and the target." Technical gobbledygook! To further undermine the article, it clearly shows the HAARP antenna design. Anyone with some RF experience will know that those are not microwave antennas!

Quote: "… your government’s HAARP emitter may need 100 billion watts of sheer power, as the patent above has indicated. There’s no theoretical limit, of course, as to how much ego will play into the process." Even if it could find "100 billion watts of sheer power", such such a signal would cause all sorts of problems, not only within a few miles of the antennas, but if it affected the ionosphere it would be detectable almost planet wide, messing up EVL,VLF signals, HF signals, all sorts of stuff.

Then the article goes on about frequency modulation and brain waves being "piggy-backed" onto a high frequency radio signal. What? How does that work? If it were serious about this it would start with amplitude modulation or pulse-width modulation anyway, not FM. It doesn't make technical sense, but it does contain technical words to lend it credibility.
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Old 23-02-2019, 01:02 PM   #926
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Originally Posted by iamawaveofthesea View Post
HAARP can be used for geoengineering?

Geoengineering with Diamond Dust and HAARP: Noctilucent Cloud Formation Rising!
A crazy idea posed in 2012 by the Artic Methane Emergency Group is now seeming like reality: turn atmospheric methane into diamond dust to cool the planet using ionospheric heaters!
By James Franklin Lee Jr.

The main MHZ frequency range (High Frequency Band 3 – 30 MHZ) of the powerful IRI transmitter is slightly different from the 13.56 MHZ needed to break down the methane. However it is very powerful with a 5.1 Giga watt effective radial power at maximum output. The Ionospheric Research Instrument (IRI) at HAARP transmits over the range 2.8 MHZ to 10 MHZ slightly less than the 13.56 MHZ used to break down methane but as mentioned previously if the IRI transmitted a 10 MHz carrier waves modulated by a 3.56 MHz signal it will generate an Upper Side Frequency of 13.56 MHz which is the methane destruction frequency (Penguin Dictionary of Physics 2000).

Noctilucent clouds which are common in the Arctic form from water condensing around meteorite dust in the mesosphere above 50 km altitude and are becoming more and more abundant and are being seen at much lower latitudes. The increase in the methane concentration in the stratosphere and its oxidation in the mesosphere is resulting in more water at these high altitudes and an increase in the noctilucent clouds. The noctilucent clouds help reflect the suns heat back into space so if we can break down more methane with the HAARP or Lucy transmitters we should generate more clouds and thus help reverse global warming by:-

a) Getting rid of the high global warming potential methane at low altitudes and in the stratospheric global warming veil.

b) Generating sunshine reflecting noctilucent clouds in increasing amounts in the mesosphere which will reflect the suns energy back into space.

The HAARP facility has discovered what they call Polar Mesosphere Summer Echoes which are elusive phenomena which may be due to a thicker development of noctilucent clouds in the Arctic summer due to the increasing methane build up. These echoes are detected with the IRI transmitter when it is used as a radar with one 28 MHZ radar and two other VHF radars of 49 MHZ and 139 MHZ. If we could transmit 13.56 MHZ on the IRI transmitter and use the other radars and optical cameras to look for reflections from noctilucent clouds formed from the breakdown of methane in a circular zone above the HAARP transmitter we should be able to effectively test the system. There ought to be a buildup of the noctilucent clouds in the area where the HAARP transmissions are focused on the ionosphere. If it works there are 4 other similar facilities in the world (Hipas, Alaska; Arecibo, Puerto Rico, EISCAT, Norway and Sura, Russia) where they could immediately attack the atmospheric methane as well.
https://climateviewer.com/2018/08/07...mation-rising/
At last. Some sane technical content! Thank you. But it's clearly still talking about the ionosphere, which is what I've said all along.
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Old 23-02-2019, 02:09 PM   #927
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At last. Some sane technical content! Thank you. But it's clearly still talking about the ionosphere, which is what I've said all along.
yeah but if the suns activity can affect weather and the ionosphere can affect 'space weather' like solar wind can affecting the ionosphere not therefore affect weather by affecting the 'space weather'?

The role of the ionosphere in aurora and space weather

Patrick T. Newell
Raymond A. Greenwald
J. Michael Ruohoniemi
First published: 01 May 2001
https://doi.org/10.1029/1999RG000077

Abstract

Recent research strongly suggests that the ionosphere plays a crucial role in the dynamics of space weather. Although the ionosphere is by volume only a small fraction of the magnetosphere, it serves as a variably conducting boundary, modulating the global electrodynamic circuit in crucial ways. A striking example is the behavior of intense aurora, which have recently been discovered to occur only when the background ionospheric conductivity is low. It is now clear that auroral acceleration occurs at the interface between the ionosphere and the magnetosphere and is controlled by magnetospheric?ionospheric coupling, with the solar cycle variations arising from a surprising source: variations in solar EUV flux. The discovery of diverging electric fields with their possibly corresponding black aurora provides a new symmetry to magnetosphere?ionosphere coupling processes. The far?reaching scope of the ionosphere in space weather problems is illustrated here in several ways. Ionospheric convection is suggested to be a major player in space weather, by creating global coherence in the magnetosphere on timescales not otherwise practical. Even a problem seemingly as far removed as possible from the ionosphere, namely, that of charge neutrality in polar rain (superthermal solar wind electron) entry into the distant magnetotail, is shown to be coupled to the problem of polar wind outflow from the ionosphere.
https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley....9/1999RG000077
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Old 23-02-2019, 02:23 PM   #928
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Interesting, but it's still not a document describing the heating of the troposphere where the weather is. Unfortunately it's written by non-technical writers who don't understand what they are writing about. Likening HAARP to a microwave oven is nonsense. For example, have you any idea how much energy would be required to raise the temperature of a section of atmosphere by 1C? No neither have I, but it's just the sort of thing that the sun can do...
i didn't quote you the whole article though i only quoted you a relevant passage which is the point that i was using

But this clip speaks about an ionosphere heater created in the 70's in Ukraine that found that it was burning a hole in the ionosphere and that weather patterns then moved around that hole so clearly they were influencing the weather

he describes that experiment @13 minutes onwards

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Old 23-02-2019, 02:25 PM   #929
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right but if you are bouncing radio waves off the ionosphere and you have created a reflective screen using reflective particulates in the atmosphere, beneath the ionosphere, then you are then bouncing those radio waves back towards the ionosphere, off your artificially created reflective screen, thereby increasing the heating of the ionosphere?
Sounds like a theory doesn't it? Trouble is, like I said, the metallic reflective bits have to be at least a quarter wavelength long at the lowest frequency (at microwaves that's about 1 mm) and at 10 MHz that's 2.5 meters. So neither is going to stay aloft for long. And anything above about 40Mhz passes straight through the ionosphere anyway without affecting it. It's only frequencies of about 500 kHz to 40 MHz (HAARP is about 3 to 10 MHz) that are refracted by, and if powerful enough heat up the ionosphere.

The ionosphere already has layers where signals can bounce between them (usually the E and F layers, but sometimes the F1, F2 and E layers) so any man-made reflective layers are unlikely to have much effect, even if they can be made stable for long enough. And something else to consider; at each reflection point there is a 10 to 20dB loss - so after a couple of reflections there isn't much left!

So even if this were possible, and the ionosphere did heat up - I described this happening in post #913 - so what? Nothing happened over Europe that anyone noticed and that went on for decades!
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Old 23-02-2019, 02:37 PM   #930
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Stating facts isn't being pedantic.

Anyway, what 'frequencies'? This needs to be specified. 'Interacting' - how exactly?

This is the trouble; vague statements made using words with specific meanings does not convey accuracy. It just looks like someone is repeating something they don't really understand, but fits something they want to believe.
Just look it up yourself. I thought you knew what HAARP is for. They excite the ionosphere "to study it."
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Old 23-02-2019, 02:49 PM   #931
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The Woodpecker stuff is mostly accurate. But the Popular Communications article quoted is not an academic publication. The quoted pulse repetition rate is wrong, you only have to listen to a recording of the signals to hear that. The info about weather fronts changing around the heated ionosphere is not confirmed. Very cold/hot weather has has been around before and after both HAARP and the Woodpecker.

The video is another example of a very complex subject repackaged in for a non-technical audience, and in so doing links various irrelevant subjects and jumps from source to source. The weather changes - like it always does - The Woodpecker is in operation. Therefore Woodpecker controlled the weather. Right...

Quote "...could punching holes in the ionosphere be the cause in the pause in global warming?" Mmm. He's never heard of Betteridge's law... And to finish off by presenting lots of mostly unconnected technical data but suggesting there's a causal link, and topping it off by saying "You be the judge on that" doesn't convince me he's on a firm footing.
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