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Old 20-04-2011, 10:08 PM   #261
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And how is having everything you need for free not being entitled to the fruits of your labor? I still don't understand why you think the left-wing ideologies prevent anyone from enjoying the fruits of their labor; it's the opposite, they're whole purpose is for everyone to be able to do it in full. That is, everyone, and with only availability setting the limits (which will be more than abundant due to our real state of technology).
"The road to hell is paved with good intentions." Left-wing ideologies are just as susceptible to corruption as their right-wing counterpart. Power is a finite resource and always will be.

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Well, the reason why we are all on this forum is becuase also democracy, republicanism, capitalism and so on also seem like a good idea in paper, but at the end of the day they are all run and corrupted by those in power. Where is the difference?... and, doesn't this mean we should look forwards to a system without anyone in power?
I'm not defending right-wing ideology by criticizing the left. Both wings have led us to this point. There needs be some kind of higher authority otherwise corrupt individuals will rule.

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."

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Yes, but what TVP proposes if for no opinions to be taken into account; that is from no one. Let's put an example: I think water boils at 90 degrees, that's my opinion; and you think water boils at 110 degrees, that's your opinion. But we can check that water boils at 100 degrees; and we both reach that consensus based on facts, not on opinions. This is what Fresco means by disregarding opionions in favour of facts.
That's a great idea, however it is completely dependent upon everyone's agreement with such a system. Maybe you say water boils at 90 and I say water boils at 110. Well, instead of resolving the dispute rationally I decide to murder you and decree that water boils at 90.

Of course, I, personally, would never do such a thing but there are those out there that would.

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Exactly, that's why a stateless system will always be better, because no one could ever abuse their power; simply because no one would ever be given that chance.
Commendable however naive, the elite don't need to be given a chance to abuse power, by nature, they steal that chance. They do not follow the "rules."
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Old 20-04-2011, 10:13 PM   #262
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There needs be some kind of higher authority otherwise corrupt individuals will rule.
What higher authority would you suggest? Nick Griffin perhaps?

The higher authority IS the bloody corrupt individuals you plonker...
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Old 20-04-2011, 10:34 PM   #263
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What higher authority would you suggest? Nick Griffin perhaps?

The higher authority IS the bloody corrupt individuals you plonker...
Nothing in my statement implied that I was speaking about the elite or even about a man. What is more telling is your use of insults. The reason corrupt individuals rule now is because of a lack of respect for a higher authority.
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Old 20-04-2011, 10:54 PM   #264
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Nothing in my statement implied that I was speaking about the elite or even about a man. What is more telling is your use of insults.
Ah so its God or some benevolent aliens to come to the rescue then.

What do you expect but insults? I'm sick and tired of the nonesense, not just from the wingnuts and "authority" obsessed but from the nutjobs too who are so far divorced from reality you can't even have a sensible discussion without it devolving into complete and utter irrelevant bollocks.

The reaosn why you lot are so screwed is because you either;
a) Pay taxes (half of trevors beloved "highy paid" oil job with halliburton paypacket ended up in the norweigan govts state coffers)
or
b) Are on the dole (dependent on welfare and the state paid for by the muppets in the situation above)
or
c) Are happy to continue to do a or b.

David Ickes whole message has been about taking responsibility for your own lives and here everyone goes talking about how we need to succumb to some kind of higher authority on his own forum.

The solution to it all is as plain as day, it doesn't involve rioting or some mass change in consciousness yet here you all are completely ignoring it and carrying on arguing about forms of flipping authority and govt instead of co-operating about how to work together to change it for the better with your own hard effort and enterprise.

Good luck with your magical higher authority whatever the hell thats meant to be or separate UK which will somehow stop the "NWO" whatever thats meant to be too because no-one seems capable of agreeing about that either.
They're far too worried about immigrants and doleys on this forum lately, it stinks of stormfront and illiterate bigoted goose stepping xenophobic book burning morons, but few seem to have the balls to admit to it of late.

If it's not that then it's the bloody "jews" or "muslims" or just the rothschilds or perhaps the freemasons or some random symbology thats meant to mean something really deep and intellectual and if you disagree then here's some more internet youtube vids and pictures that proves it all somehow.

Nevermind freedom, nevermind equality, nevermind hard work co-operation and common sense. Those things are just a complete waste of time because some random bloke says so and he knows everything because . Rinse and repeat.

Last edited by andyh; 20-04-2011 at 10:54 PM.
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Old 20-04-2011, 11:03 PM   #265
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Ah so its God or some benevolent aliens to come to the rescue then.
Who said anything about being rescued? This world is what we've made it and it is our responsibility to be it's stewards.

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Originally Posted by andyh View Post
What do you expect but insults? I'm sick and tired of the nonesense, not just from the wingnuts and "authority" obsessed but from the nutjobs too who are so far divorced from reality you can't even have a sensible discussion without it devolving into complete and utter irrelevant bollocks.
Rationalize your actions however you like but, it is to your own undoing because it discredits your message.

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Originally Posted by andyh View Post
The reaosn why you lot are so screwed is because you either;
a) Pay taxes (half of trevors beloved "highy paid" oil job with halliburton paypacket ended up in the norweigan govts state coffers)
or
b) Are on the dole (dependent on welfare and the state paid for by the muppets in the situation above)
or
c) Are happy to continue to do a or b.

David Ickes whole message has been about taking responsibility for your own lives and here everyone goes talking about how we need to succumb to some kind of higher authority on his own forum.
Recognizing one's place in things will incite personal responsibility not the other way around. This life and this world are a gift and we should treat them as such.

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The solution to it all is as plain as day, it doesn't involve rioting or some mass change in consciousness yet here you all are completely ignoring it and carrying on arguing about forms of flipping authority and govt instead of co-operating about how to work together to change it for the better with your own hard effort and enterprise.
What does change really mean? A new form of political governance? Is that really what mankind needs? Political governance will not cure spiritual sickness.

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Good luck with your magical higher authority whatever the hell thats meant to be or separate UK which will somehow stop the "NWO" whatever thats meant to be too because no-one seems capable of agreeing about that either.
They're far too worried about immigrants and doleys on this forum lately, it stinks of stormfront and illiterate bigoted goose stepping xenophobic book burning morons, but few seem to have the balls to admit to it of late.
Rant over?

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If it's not that then it's the bloody "jews" or "muslims" or just the rothschilds or perhaps the freemasons or some random symbology thats meant to mean something really deep and intellectual and if you disagree then here's some more internet youtube vids and pictures that proves it all somehow.
There is some truth to this one.

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Nevermind freedom, nevermind equality, nevermind hard work co-operation and common sense. Those things are just a complete waste of time because some random bloke says so and he knows everything because . Rinse and repeat.
This I agree with, imagine if we as a human race collectively decided to focus on creative and exploratory endeavors rather than destruction and death.
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Old 20-04-2011, 11:19 PM   #266
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Who said anything about being rescued? This world is what we've made it and it is our responsibility to be it's stewards.
Then the only higher authority is ourselves, no-one else.

Quote:
Rationalize your actions however you like but, it is to your own undoing because it discredits your message.
I rationalize it by stating the very obvious, it needed saying because if I don't then the vicious circle continues.

Quote:
Recognizing one's place in things will incite personal responsibility not the other way around. This life and this world are a gift and we should treat them as such.
A gift of a kind perhaps but not a chritmas pressie.
Its worth noting that the entire universe is our world, not merely this ball of rock.

Quote:
What does change really mean? A new form of political governance? Is that really what mankind needs? Political governance will not cure spiritual sickness.
Its all I've seen of late. Authority of some form or other as a "solution".

Quote:
Rant over?
You wish lol.

Quote:
There is some truth to this one.



This I agree with, imagine if we as a human race collectively decided to focus on creative and exploratory endeavors rather than destruction and death.

Thats what TVP was "meant" to be about. IMHO anarcho-syndicalism was far better because it didn't involve politics or extreme change and was solidly grounded in reality. It allows for transition into something better by removing government slowly and legally and yet at the same time teaching people by doing. Something Icke,Jones & Co. will never be able to do. In fact, they have never mentioned a real solution of any kind, this is why TVP had such a huge following in the first place, yet many of its "followers" did little to support it at all, nor for that matter did they really understand it.
This is what Fresco said, and he's right to say it imho.
TVP is finished now, it was destined to end this way when someone there said what needed to be said about it. Fresco will be dead shortly and as for PJ he'll probably give up bothering and I doubt anyone else will take up the reins and have a go.
There was no transition period or learning curve at all, just some expectation that people would suddenly change en masse.

We all know thats not going to happen, so why call it the "NWO" ??
It's laughable, so thats why I mock those who try and push this nonesense on this forum. Most of them have no solution of their own to proffer at all, just vague codswallop as usual.
At least the fascists are clear about their intent, they expect the cure to come from even more authority and dominance in a small area and then perhaps bring it to the rest of the world through force as a "cure".
Some of them are even happy to have a "cull" and they like the idea.

The fact that they are saying all this on a David Icke forum of all the places doesn't seem to bother them in the slightest and they get all upset if someone points out the stinking obvious.

Last edited by andyh; 20-04-2011 at 11:21 PM.
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Old 20-04-2011, 11:19 PM   #267
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"The road to hell is paved with good intentions." Left-wing ideologies are just as susceptible to corruption as their right-wing counterpart. Power is a finite resource and always will be.

I'm not defending right-wing ideology by criticizing the left. Both wings have led us to this point. There needs be some kind of higher authority otherwise corrupt individuals will rule.

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
There is no such thing as above or beyond the left-right paradigm, as many people say on this forum. This is just a misleading trick from right-wing advocates who are aware that admiting they are right-wingers would put many people off. You are either towards everyone having the same rights, benefits and opportunities, or you don't -in which case you believe some should have more depending on their monetary power-; that's what left and right mean. There is no such thing beyond it; unless you are apolitic (but no one on this forum is apolitic).

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That's a great idea, however it is completely dependent upon everyone's agreement with such a system. Maybe you say water boils at 90 and I say water boils at 110. Well, instead of resolving the dispute rationally I decide to murder you and decree that water boils at 90.

Of course, I, personally, would never do such a thing but there are those out there that would.
How would murdering me change the fact that the rest of society know for a fact that water boils at 100 degrees? You see, when you have a society based on facts, my -or anyone else's- individual opinion means nothing; therefore it doesn't matter if you kill me or anyone else; the truth will prevail because it can be confirmed.

Our current system is not based on facts; it's based on opinions. Obama doesn't say: "let's calculate what would be better for America: having a private Federal Reserve, or a national bank issuing debt free money"; he just tells the rest of America: "it is my will that we continue having a private Federal Reserve". No even that, he doesn't tell anything to America... period. This wouldn't happen if all decisions had to be based on hard facts and figures. You see the difference?

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Commendable however naive, the elite don't need to be given a chance to abuse power, by nature, they steal that chance. They do not follow the "rules."
What you need to understand is that in a real stateless system where everyone is equal and has the same access to resouces there is no elite. How would there be an elite when there is no money? How could there be an elite if opinions doesn't count? What would they steal if everything is freely available to all?

Last edited by flyermay; 21-04-2011 at 10:52 AM.
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Old 20-04-2011, 11:33 PM   #268
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Ah so its God or some benevolent aliens to come to the rescue then.

What do you expect but insults? I'm sick and tired of the nonesense, not just from the wingnuts and "authority" obsessed but from the nutjobs too who are so far divorced from reality you can't even have a sensible discussion without it devolving into complete and utter irrelevant bollocks.

The reaosn why you lot are so screwed is because you either;
a) Pay taxes (half of trevors beloved "highy paid" oil job with halliburton paypacket ended up in the norweigan govts state coffers)
or
b) Are on the dole (dependent on welfare and the state paid for by the muppets in the situation above)
or
c) Are happy to continue to do a or b.

David Ickes whole message has been about taking responsibility for your own lives and here everyone goes talking about how we need to succumb to some kind of higher authority on his own forum.

The solution to it all is as plain as day, it doesn't involve rioting or some mass change in consciousness yet here you all are completely ignoring it and carrying on arguing about forms of flipping authority and govt instead of co-operating about how to work together to change it for the better with your own hard effort and enterprise.

Good luck with your magical higher authority whatever the hell thats meant to be or separate UK which will somehow stop the "NWO" whatever thats meant to be too because no-one seems capable of agreeing about that either.
They're far too worried about immigrants and doleys on this forum lately, it stinks of stormfront and illiterate bigoted goose stepping xenophobic book burning morons, but few seem to have the balls to admit to it of late.

If it's not that then it's the bloody "jews" or "muslims" or just the rothschilds or perhaps the freemasons or some random symbology thats meant to mean something really deep and intellectual and if you disagree then here's some more internet youtube vids and pictures that proves it all somehow.

Nevermind freedom, nevermind equality, nevermind hard work co-operation and common sense. Those things are just a complete waste of time because some random bloke says so and he knows everything because . Rinse and repeat.
You seem like a completely different person from the guy I chatted with a few weeks back... but I have to agree with you; not on the higher authority (I don't care what people believe) on the fact that many are turning this forum into stormfront-2.

But what did you expect: people like AJ are constantly bashing on doles, illegals and leftists. I've been listening to his YouTube channel lately and I'm so sick this bigot constantly spreading his hate into whatever is left of the truth-seeker / anti-NWO movement, while everyone simply cheer him out. It's sickening!
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Old 20-04-2011, 11:40 PM   #269
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Thats what TVP was "meant" to be about. IMHO anarcho-syndicalism was far better because it didn't involve politics or extreme change and was solidly grounded in reality. It allows for transition into something better by removing government slowly and legally and yet at the same time teaching people by doing. Something Icke,Jones & Co. will never be able to do. In fact, they have never mentioned a real solution of any kind, this is why TVP had such a huge following in the first place, yet many of its "followers" did little to support it at all, nor for that matter did they really understand it.
This is what Fresco said, and he's right to say it imho.
TVP is finished now, it was destined to end this way when someone there said what needed to be said about it. Fresco will be dead shortly and as for PJ he'll probably give up bothering and I doubt anyone else will take up the reins and have a go.
There was no transition period or learning curve at all, just some expectation that people would suddenly change en masse.
I'm not that sure PJ will not take over pretty well; I wouldn't believe it some time ago, but after hearing talk lately, he does it as well as Fresco; many times even better, since Fresco often gets on a tangent due to his age.

But you're right... is it ever going to happen? probably not in my lifetime.

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Old 20-04-2011, 11:41 PM   #270
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You seem like a completely different person from the guy I chatted with a few weeks back... but I have to agree with you; not on the higher authority (I don't care what people believe) on the fact that many are turning this forum into stormfront-2.

But what did you expect: people like AJ are constantly bashing on doles, illegals and leftists. I've been listening to his YouTube channel lately and I'm so sick this bigot constantly spreading his hate into whatever is left of the truth-seeker / anti-NWO movement, while everyone simply cheer him out. It's sickening!
If he bangs on about doleys then he MUST also bang on about those who pay taxes in PAYE jobs too. The one goes with the other. Just as business goes hand in hand with govt. It has been explained in painful detail again and again and again and again...aaaarghhh!

I guess I'm losing my patience which is why I sound a bit different, theres some stuff on here that should have been left behind 2 years or so ago now, know what I mean?
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Old 20-04-2011, 11:46 PM   #271
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If he bangs on about doleys then he MUST also bang on about those who pay taxes in PAYE jobs too. The one goes with the other. Just as business goes hand in hand with govt. It has been explained in painful detail again and again and again and again...aaaarghhh!
I doubt he says anything about those who pay taxes; since HE pays quite a few taxes from the loads of cash he is making. He only complains about the government planning on taking more taxes from the richest; that he complains a lot, since it affects him directly.

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I guess I'm losing my patience which is why I sound a bit different, theres some stuff on here that should have been left behind 2 years or so ago now, know what I mean?
IMO this is a never ending task... or you keep on discussing with those who would always refuse to acknowledge what you are saying, or you discuss with the new members of this forum that never heard the same old story.

What else can you do... you either move along from some subjects, or just have patience.

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Old 20-04-2011, 11:48 PM   #272
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I doubt he says anything about those who pay taxes; since HE pays quite a few taxes from the loads of cash he is making. He only complains about the government planning on taking more taxes from the richest; that he complains a lot.



IMO this is a never ending task... or you keep on discussing with those who would always refuse to acknowledge what you are saying, or you discuss with the new members of this forum that never heard the same old story.

What else can you do... you either move along from some subjects, or just have patience.
Well not quite.
The self employed have "expenses" and "VAT returns" etc etc etc.

Joe Bloggs PAYE does not.

AJ knows this ofc, as does David Icke.
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Old 21-04-2011, 12:01 AM   #273
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Well not quite.
The self employed have "expenses" and "VAT returns" etc etc etc.

Joe Bloggs PAYE does not.

AJ knows this ofc, as does David Icke.
It doesn't matter whether if he runs his business as self employed or not; he will pay the exact same taxes.

This is how it goes: you pay a percentage based on your benefits (whether you are serlf employed or not), and according to your tax band. The only difference is that either your boss pays the expenses to you and the VAT of sales for you, or you deduct and pay them for yourself.

If AJ is making money out of his business (and I'm sure he is making a lot); he is paying taxes, and he will now pay even more if he is wealthy -which he is-. That's why he is so pissed off.

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Old 21-04-2011, 06:26 AM   #274
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It doesn't matter whether if he runs his business as self employed or not; he will pay the exact same taxes.

This is how it goes: you pay a percentage based on your benefits (whether you are serlf employed or not), and according to your tax band. The only difference is that either your boss pays the expenses to you and the VAT of sales for you, or you deduct and pay them for yourself.

If AJ is making money out of his business (and I'm sure he is making a lot); he is paying taxes, and he will now pay even more if he is wealthy -which he is-. That's why he is so pissed off.
If he's paying too much tax then he's an idiot.
Sorry to have to say it mate but you have it completely wrong there.
I gave a link to microsoft ireland elsewhere in the forum and how much tax they paid this year, you might want to have a look at the "expense" they have paid to a sister company.

Mind you, all the ones moaning and whining about how their tax money is feeding doleys and immigrants usually are stupid enough not to realise how they can avoid paying tax.
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Old 21-04-2011, 11:02 AM   #275
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Have you ever watched Star Trek?

Well, that's a pefect example of a Resource Based Economy. Leaving aside all the military stuff and their political system, in Star Trek people don't work because they will earn more money or to enjoy individually the fruits of their work; they do it because that's what they like to do, they think it's the right thing to do, and because they want to forwards in their careers.

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Old 21-04-2011, 01:55 PM   #276
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Then the only higher authority is ourselves, no-one else.
I disagree, humans didn't will themselves into existence. There is something beyond humanity...what you call that something is up to you.

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I rationalize it by stating the very obvious, it needed saying because if I don't then the vicious circle continues.
Evidently it didn't need to be said because the comment was based on a misunderstanding of my post.

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A gift of a kind perhaps but not a chritmas pressie.
Its worth noting that the entire universe is our world, not merely this ball of rock.
No argument there.

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Its all I've seen of late. Authority of some form or other as a "solution".
Authority is the solution. Authority in the form of natural rights not another man-made form of political governance.

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You wish lol.


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Originally Posted by andyh View Post
Thats what TVP was "meant" to be about. IMHO anarcho-syndicalism was far better because it didn't involve politics or extreme change and was solidly grounded in reality. It allows for transition into something better by removing government slowly and legally and yet at the same time teaching people by doing. Something Icke,Jones & Co. will never be able to do. In fact, they have never mentioned a real solution of any kind, this is why TVP had such a huge following in the first place, yet many of its "followers" did little to support it at all, nor for that matter did they really understand it.
This is what Fresco said, and he's right to say it imho.
TVP is finished now, it was destined to end this way when someone there said what needed to be said about it. Fresco will be dead shortly and as for PJ he'll probably give up bothering and I doubt anyone else will take up the reins and have a go.
There was no transition period or learning curve at all, just some expectation that people would suddenly change en masse.

We all know thats not going to happen, so why call it the "NWO" ??
It's laughable, so thats why I mock those who try and push this nonesense on this forum. Most of them have no solution of their own to proffer at all, just vague codswallop as usual.
At least the fascists are clear about their intent, they expect the cure to come from even more authority and dominance in a small area and then perhaps bring it to the rest of the world through force as a "cure".
Some of them are even happy to have a "cull" and they like the idea.

The fact that they are saying all this on a David Icke forum of all the places doesn't seem to bother them in the slightest and they get all upset if someone points out the stinking obvious.
I think the misconception is that the supposed "NWO" is on the way and not already here. Globalization is here now, we live under the "NWO" already.

Are you familiar with a "gift economy?"

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Old 21-04-2011, 02:06 PM   #277
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There is no such thing as above or beyond the left-right paradigm, as many people say on this forum. This is just a misleading trick from right-wing advocates who are aware that admiting they are right-wingers would put many people off. You are either towards everyone having the same rights, benefits and opportunities, or you don't -in which case you believe some should have more depending on their monetary power-; that's what left and right mean. There is no such thing beyond it; unless you are apolitic (but no one on this forum is apolitic).
There is something beyond it, self-governance. And, economically there is a "gift-economy." The point is that it's not so much the left-right paradigm that is the problem, the problem lies with humanity and our inability to consistently do the right thing.

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How would murdering me change the fact that the rest of society know for a fact that water boils at 100 degrees? You see, when you have a society based on facts, my -or anyone else's- individual opinion means nothing; therefore it doesn't matter if you kill me or anyone else; the truth will prevail because it can be confirmed.
"The personal is political and as above so below." If this can be done on a small-scale between two individuals then it can, and has, been done on a large scale. In order for your concept to succeed everyone has to collectively agree to "play nice."

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Our current system is not based on facts; it's based on opinions. Obama doesn't say: "let's calculate what would be better for America: having a private Federal Reserve, or a national bank issuing debt free money"; he just tells the rest of America: "it is my will that we continue having a private Federal Reserve". No even that, he doesn't tell anything to America... period. This wouldn't happen if all decisions had to be based on hard facts and figures. You see the difference?
Sure, but what you're asking everyone to do is play by the rules and, by nature, the elite do not play by the rules which is why they are the elite.

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What you need to understand is that in a real stateless system where everyone is equal and has the same access to resouces there is no elite. How would there be an elite when there is no money? How could there be an elite if opinions doesn't count? What would they steal if everything is freely available to all?
Like I said, power is and will always be a finite resource.
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Last edited by logos880; 21-04-2011 at 02:07 PM.
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Old 21-04-2011, 08:21 PM   #278
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There is something beyond it, self-governance. And, economically there is a "gift-economy." The point is that it's not so much the left-right paradigm that is the problem, the problem lies with humanity and our inability to consistently do the right thing.
How is self-governmance different from anarchism or direct democracy (depending on what you mean exactly)? And, what do you mean by "gift-economy"?

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"The personal is political and as above so below." If this can be done on a small-scale between two individuals then it can, and has, been done on a large scale. In order for your concept to succeed everyone has to collectively agree to "play nice."

Sure, but what you're asking everyone to do is play by the rules and, by nature, the elite do not play by the rules which is why they are the elite.

Like I said, power is and will always be a finite resource.
I don't understand your point; don't people need to "play nice" in the self-governing system you propose; or in any other system, for that matter?

About the elite... I ask you again: what elite? how can there be an elite in this system; when the elite can only exist in a system where there is inequality?

Last edited by flyermay; 21-04-2011 at 08:22 PM.
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Old 21-04-2011, 08:32 PM   #279
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How is self-governmance different from anarchism or direct democracy (depending on what you mean exactly)? And, what do you mean by "gift-economy"?
When I say 'self-governance' I mean that all people are responsible for living up to a standard of behavior that is beyond humanity. We all have free-will and make our own choices whether those choices be healthy or un-healthy.


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In the social sciences, a gift economy (or gift culture) is a society where valuable goods and services are regularly given without any explicit agreement for immediate or future rewards (i.e. no formal quid pro quo exists).[1] Ideally, simultaneous or recurring giving serves to circulate and redistribute valuables within the community. The organization of a gift economy stands in contrast to a barter economy or a market economy. Informal custom governs exchanges, rather than an explicit exchange of goods or services for money or some other commodity.
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I don't understand your point; don't people need to "play nice" in the self-governing system you propose; or in any other system, for that matter?
Yes, exactly and that is my point. In order for any system of government to be successful in a positive sense people have to "do the right thing."

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About the elite... I ask you again: what elite? how can there be an elite in this system; when the elite can only exist in a system where there is inequality?
As long as there is a human desire to usurp power there will be inequality. All men are created equal however, not all men act equally. Inequality is a human problem not a system problem.
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Old 21-04-2011, 08:59 PM   #280
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When I say 'self-governance' I mean that all people are responsible for living up to a standard of behavior that is beyond humanity. We all have free-will and make our own choices whether those choices be healthy or un-healthy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gift_economy

Yes, exactly and that is my point. In order for any system of government to be successful in a positive sense people have to "do the right thing."

As long as there is a human desire to usurp power there will be inequality. All men are created equal however, not all men act equally. Inequality is a human problem not a system problem.
Yes I agree, but what other solution can there be to human desire for power than preventing this from happening, or even make it impossible?

I always thought anarchism was the only solution; but I always had doubts on whether or not it could effectively prevent any given individual or group to get power by force. But since I heard what Fresco proposes I can't see how could this happen, since it is not individuals or groups that decide what's done based on their opinion, but on collective research and study of what's best. It's perfect, since only reason, logic and nature set the rules; nobody could disagree with that, could they?

Last edited by flyermay; 22-04-2011 at 05:38 AM.
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