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Old 16-12-2009, 06:35 AM   #41
mythmath
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mythmath View Post

Here is a short list of some of the things
that the most advanced civilizations
of ancient times did not have:

1. Any concept of identifying audible tones
in terms of 'cycles per second' (hertz).

2. Any way to observe or measure cycles per second.

3. Any way to observe or display seconds, for that matter.


So there is no way they could have identified
one pitch over another in a manner that would
correspond to specific frequencies (or hertz)...

Whatever means they did use to identify a given
pitch or harmonic relationship did not include
numbers that represented the vibrations of that
tone in terms of cycles per second or hertz...
Ancient cultures such as the Mesopotamian, Egyptian, Indian,
Chinese, Persian, Greek and Roman all utilized multi-string
instruments in their music…

Many proportional relationships governing pitch and
harmony can be deduced from these types of instruments
although actual frequencies or pitches could not be identified
or labeled, and therefore could not be standardized…

{edit: see post #184 for a possible exception to the preceding statement**

Pythagoras examined string length ratios and determined that exact
proportional relationships would yield tonal constants in the 6th cent. BC…

As stated previously, absolute pitch could not be
determined, and as such was not even a concept,
but ratios and proportions could accurately be
examined and repeated…

_______________

Here's a quick technological history of some of the
developments that were required to accurately
identify audible tones as specific frequencies:

Most of the advanced cultures had astrological tables
and ephemerides that detailed cosmic events sometimes
calculated to the microsecond, but there were no instruments
to display these increments of time...

The first mechanical clock that could show time in seconds was
created at the Istanbul observatory of al-Din between 1577-1580.

The first absolute determination of the frequency of an
audible tone (at 84 cps) was achieved in 1636 by …

The industrious Mersenne also determined the standard
length of the in 1644.

The was invented by Shore in 1711...

Audible tones began to be measured accurately as cycles per second
by employing a mechanical device around 1834...

After 1960 frequency measurements, previously
known as vibrational cycles per second, began
to be expressed in units referred to as …



.


Last edited by mythmath; 16-12-2009 at 06:37 AM.
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Old 16-12-2009, 09:03 AM   #42
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Btw, something that crossed my mind when I was looking at the basic lo shu, which I believe is the core of this tones if I understood correctly?

492
357 ->15 = 6
816

What if we introduced the other half?

507
642 ->12 = 3
183

Have you thought about this? Breath in / breath out, ying and yang, white hole / black hole, north pole / south pole.. or whatever...?

Not sure how it would be implemented in the tone set though. Maybe two separate tables?

Sum these up and we get

999
999 -> vacuum state / balance
999

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Old 16-12-2009, 03:09 PM   #43
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MythMath, with all due respect, there is a difference between an ancient society and an ancient secret society (where secrets like 963 were stripped from public knowledge).

And yes, you are correct. Although having a background in music is enviable, you do not need it to understand numerical patterns.

Yes, you are correct. The ancients did not have the concept of seconds. But when I intentionally wrote 852Hz, I added the Hz, so people could identify that it was a frequency of 852 cycles/something, instead of just a number, but forgot to point out that it does not have to be per second.

Lastly, by "phase shift", I mean "numerical" phase shift: 963 - 111 = 852, 963 - 222 = 741, as you pointed out.

Last edited by sphere555; 16-12-2009 at 03:44 PM.
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Old 19-12-2009, 07:43 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sphere555 View Post
...there is a difference between an ancient society and an
ancient secret society (where secrets like 963 were
stripped from public knowledge).
Regardless of which sector of ancient society you're discussing,
the concept of accurately identifying specific audible sounds
with specific (3-digit) numerical values did not exist then...

The only point I'm trying to clarify is that Our Numbers,
which I think we all feel have some significance, were not
used to identify specific tones, so they could not have been
'the Secret Solfeggio tones' which were 'lost' or withheld...

Or put another way, if there actually was a set of musical tones
that were referred to as 'the Solfeggio tones' that were 'lost' or
hidden or repressed (for whatever reasons), then these tones
were not able to be identified by specific numbers, because
the technology required to allow the 'naming' of specific tones
with specific number values did not exist yet...
Quote:
...a background in music is enviable, [but] you
do not need it to understand numerical patterns.
I admit that the patterns revealed and displayed by
this Our Set of Numerical Values seems to possess
some kind of intrinsic power, but again, these numbers
were unable to be presented in terms of audible tones...

And if they were simply numerical values,
they could not be 'suppressed' as sounds...

Quote:
The ancients did not have the concept of seconds.
But when I intentionally wrote 852Hz, I added the Hz,
so people could identify that it was a frequency of 852
cycles/something
, instead of just a number, but forgot
to point out that it does not have to be per second.
But the term 'frequency' (relative to audible sound)
is measured exclusively by cycles per second...

If you don't have seconds, or can't have 'frequencies'...

Audible sound at that time was not referred to as,
or identified by, numeric 'frequency' values, so our
Number Set could not have been applied to specific sounds...

Prior to the development of the concept of 'frequency',
audible sounds were perceived, arranged and identified
in terms of relative pitches, or 'ratios', IOW, how one
tone related musically to another tone (or group of tones)...

And the tones, intervals and chords were identified
by names and not by number values...


.

Last edited by mythmath; 19-12-2009 at 08:01 AM.
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Old 23-12-2009, 05:07 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mythmath View Post
Regardless of which sector of ancient society you're discussing,
the concept of accurately identifying specific audible sounds
with specific (3-digit) numerical values did not exist then...

The only point I'm trying to clarify is that Our Numbers,
which I think we all feel have some significance, were not
used to identify specific tones, so they could not have been
'the Secret Solfeggio tones' which were 'lost' or withheld...

Or put another way, if there actually was a set of musical tones
that were referred to as 'the Solfeggio tones' that were 'lost' or
hidden or repressed (for whatever reasons), then these tones
were not able to be identified by specific numbers, because
the technology required to allow the 'naming' of specific tones
with specific number values did not exist yet...
I admit that the patterns revealed and displayed by
this Our Set of Numerical Values seems to possess
some kind of intrinsic power, but again, these numbers
were unable to be presented in terms of audible tones...

And if they were simply numerical values,
they could not be 'suppressed' as sounds...

But the term 'frequency' (relative to audible sound)
is measured exclusively by cycles per second...

If you don't have seconds, or can't have 'frequencies'...

Audible sound at that time was not referred to as,
or identified by, numeric 'frequency' values, so our
Number Set could not have been applied to specific sounds...

Prior to the development of the concept of 'frequency',
audible sounds were perceived, arranged and identified
in terms of relative pitches, or 'ratios', IOW, how one
tone related musically to another tone (or group of tones)...

And the tones, intervals and chords were identified
by names and not by number values...


.
Never mind, MythMath. I already solved the Illuminati's riddle of the 285 Solfeggio frequency, which actually turned out to be 28.5!!

Here it the solution:

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=95672

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Old 31-12-2009, 01:17 PM   #46
lived live
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Default Wtf!

I quote>>>


MythMath
__________

PS - not to disregard any of Lee Burton's research, but he's
been a frequent visitor to our threads at abrahadabra.com...

WHAT?! MythMath?
You invited me?

Name one thing i have taken from your site? 1??
i would come back if people would interact but they didnt?

not to disregard?? Creeping Jesus! mytmath have you not seen all the recent lo shu rodin re-discoveries?? I would bet you have with your latest work shows as much, or are you trying to put whole numbers in there place and pretend you came up with the unique pattern or something... AGAIN!

paraniod and mardy maybe? so ill take that back sorry.
I see your work as very good.

My work has proofs with research along the way. it offers unique topology and a matrix ad infinitus, boundaries, layers, fractals, so nothing stolen, and to piss some people off until they ask, ITS COPYRIGHTED intellectual property.

On another energy forum you said ' i was wondering if Marko Rodin had anything to do with the lo shu LMFAO! Like you dont already know!!

Truth is MYTHMATH we could be friends
work together? start fresh? up to you?

Work speaks for itself.. and i add nothing apart from what was intended..

To be clear I am lburton.

Saw my link and thought would join in and offer my side.

cool
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Old 31-12-2009, 09:56 PM   #47
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..
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Old 01-01-2010, 01:53 AM   #48
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lburton,

To be clear; I'm not inferring that you 'took' anything;
the info at abrahadabra is freely shared by any or all...

My comment wasn't meant to come off disparagingly...

It was poorly worded and I'd withdraw if I could edit it...

I was actually trying to differentiate 'your research'
from the specific 'approach' of the thread, but to still
imply awareness of both 'disciplines' to each other...

Since we use similar terms for describing
dissimilar elements, and since our definitions of
'what is a Lo Shu Tone' are different, I was attempting
to somehow clarify this for readers previously unaware...

___________


However, I do have concerns with any notion that these
specific 3-digit number patterns could have been
realized as audible frequencies, before the technology
of the 19th century actually made it possible...


Do you have an explanation that would allow for this...?



MythMath


PS - I would be interested in collaborating on some of
the areas of common interest regarding the matters...

.

Last edited by mythmath; 01-01-2010 at 02:13 AM.
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Old 02-01-2010, 04:25 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mythmath View Post
lburton,

To be clear; I'm not inferring that you 'took' anything;
the info at abrahadabra is freely shared by any or all...

My comment wasn't meant to come off disparagingly...

It was poorly worded and I'd withdraw if I could edit it...

I was actually trying to differentiate 'your research'
from the specific 'approach' of the thread, but to still
imply awareness of both 'disciplines' to each other...

Since we use similar terms for describing
dissimilar elements, and since our definitions of
'what is a Lo Shu Tone' are different, I was attempting
to somehow clarify this for readers previously unaware...

___________

However, I do have concerns with any notion that these
specific 3-digit number patterns could have been
realized as audible frequencies, before the technology
of the 19th century actually made it possible...


Do you have an explanation that would allow for this...?



MythMath


PS - I would be interested in collaborating on some of
the areas of common interest regarding the matters...

.
lee

Hi Mythmath, thanks for being fair, i look forward to offering what i have found regarding the work.

The alleged Solfege i see and use as number seperation for the triads only at this point.

The only method i could imagine, is maybe they kind of reversed engineered the system of tone and measure.

Pythagoras as you know was all about ratio's and octaves, maybe they found a symetry and did the reduced reversed math to be able to supply correct number due to the self replicating fractality of Octaves.

We know Marko showed us the 1 2 4 8 7 5 octave progressions, so maybe they too found a ratio that could be taken forward and back to infinity the same?

John Michell in his books shows the new jerusalem ratio's of Heaven and Earth, they build the Temples with harmonic measure in mind so i dont see this problem of no gauge as an impossibility.

We do not have to feel absolute zero to know what number describe it, we do the maths.

Thought about this a lot, and can only offer idea's?

Kasey Bentley from the Rodin coil group posted a very interesing picture/chart regarding the mod 9 octave relation, its a real eye opener!

As a thanks for your great reply MythMath, ill post it to you privatly as i have not asked permisions.. any others please contact me and ill send it to you also.[/I]

Happy new year!
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Old 03-01-2010, 09:48 PM   #50
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What is the meaning of this thread? What do these numbers represent? You just came to this forum and started posting numbers , graphs and obscure relations between numbers ? How can this be used?
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Old 03-01-2010, 10:33 PM   #51
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well alexandru,

I'm here, presenting this information, with the hope
of finding out more about how this can be used...

The set of numbers is a unique, coherent group of figures...

It also seems to coincide with several other systems,
topics and phenomena that appear to interest many
of the other forum members...

This particular set of numbers falls within the purview of
Vedic math, so it relates with the Rodin geometry, it
dwells in arrangements that align with the Haramein
tetraforms and it shares an uncanny, parallel existence
with the so-called Solfeggio tones...

It represents a profound enigma that
we know next to nothing about...


Many sensitized observers 'feel' its potential...


What say you...?
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Old 05-01-2010, 05:05 PM   #52
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Thanks for the kind reply. I was so tired (from work), I logged in to the forum and saw your thread and I got very ***** because I didn`t understand anything.

Hmm... so, I know a little about vedic math, and I knew this has something to do with the marko rodin thread(I watched his movies last year), but my problem (apparently you guys have the same problem) is that I don`t know how can this be used. Not only used in practical ways, but what does it tell us about our environment?

So many mysteries. It seems these signs/mathematical constructs are everywhere in our ancient cultures, but no advice on how to actually use it or what purpose does it serve..
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Old 05-01-2010, 09:52 PM   #53
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I've been using the numbers to represent
the given frequencies of audible tones...

It's my view that the ability to render these
values as actual frequencies, in a way that's
accurate (and affordable), is a relatively,
recently-developed technological reality...

blah, blah, blah...


I fashion the audible waves into meditative art...


Watching the videos reduces your stress levels,
helps you to balance and center your energies...


Triggers magical restorative, healing powers...


click to see MythMathFilms


.
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Old 11-01-2010, 06:37 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexandru View Post
What is the meaning of this thread? What do these numbers represent? You just came to this forum and started posting numbers , graphs and obscure relations between numbers ? How can this be used?
Quote:
The Six Solfeggio Frequencies include:

UT – 396 Hz – Liberating Guilt and Fear
RE – 417 Hz – Undoing Situations and Facilitating Change
MI – 528 Hz – Transformation and Miracles (DNA Repair)
FA – 639 Hz – Connecting/Relationships
SOL – 741 Hz – Awakening Intuition
LA – 852 Hz – Returning to Spiritual Order
Notice, they're all permutations of three triads: 174, 285, 369.


Examples of 'Solfeggio numbers' in nature/Illuminati system:

Lunar cycle => 28.5 days
Human body temperature => Hovers around 36.9 (degrees Celsius)
Air-fuel ratio (AFR) => Any mixture less than 14.7 to 1 is considered to be a rich mixture,
any more than 14.7 to 1 is a lean mixture - given perfect (ideal) "test" fuel
(gasoline consisting of solely n-heptane and iso-octane)


Find the Common Ground:

1 ---> [+3] ---> 4 ---> [+3] ---> 7
2 ---> [+3] ---> 5 ---> [+3] ---> 8
3 ---> [+3] ---> 6 ---> [+3] ---> 9

The common ground appears to be '33'
0 degrees C = 32 degrees F (Illuminati scale)
Remember, the highest Illuminati Masonic degree back then when the F scale was introduced was 32, which now has been upped to 33.


Further Reducing '33':

3 + 3 = 6


Middle Eastern Numerology (Zionism):
http://kingofthejunglellc.com/middle...numerology.htm

Quote:
1 = unity

2 = opposition

3 = government

4 = mortality, death

5 = triumph over death

(and the messiah: the one who brings eternal life)

6 = creation; procreation; reproduction [ie. SEX]

(union of the masculine and feminine forces of nature)

7 = completion, rest

8 = beginning; birth

9 = trial and tribulation

Conclusion:

So, we have three 'sacred' triads 174, 285, 369,
which have the common root of '33',
which reduces down to 6 (Sex!)


What does this tell you about the universe we live in?

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=98688

Quote:
Originally Posted by sphere555 View Post
Suppose I were to tell you that
this Universe is a gigantic ongoing orgasm,
down to the minutest details and particles,
what would you say?


Other threads with Solfeggio triads/Illuminati numerology:

HARVEST MOON: The Lilith Story Behind S.F. Vaccine
Swine Flu is 33 Years Old!
Why NASA Doesn't Show Moon & Mars in LIVING Colors
What does Pentagon have in common w Twin Towers?
Why Obama?

Last edited by sphere555; 11-01-2010 at 07:19 PM.
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Old 15-03-2010, 01:44 AM   #55
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33 can also break down into trhee primes or a prime that hasnt been seen,,,,,,,,,,oh but thats dealing with humans,,,,,,,,,as in there are some that resonate a prime number vibe,,,,,,,all depends on the math you use.


so what about 39 or 13,,,,,,,,oops 39x3=117, right above 111 and then 13x6=78 on the other side of 111.

yep your LO SHU is right on,,,,,,way cool,,,,,i just thought ok there talking 3s and 33 but havent mentioned the two everyone forgets 13 and 39,,,,,,,,, had notidea that was going to end up being the ones on your grid right above the 111......then 45 coming back around to the 9s and 5 coupled with 106 or 27x3 thne reduced to a 9 and 3 hence back to 3 5s,,,,,,,,,,what i noticed is the 27 or the 106 follows your grid thus remaing in the 3 catagory .........

id better stop now im not making sense right now its not gelled,,,,,,,,,so i will just leave it there for food for thought,,,,,,,,,,,and i dont understand this stuff well enough to make sense to anyone other to say it does look allot more truthfull and complete than the solfeggio thing,,,,,,,im not saying solfeggio is wrong its just not as complete as this in showing us the reality of it,,,,,,,,,,,,antoher thing the whole sex thing well think a bit higher, its a bit more than that, but it is that well its other things to,,,,,,,,,,
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Old 15-03-2010, 05:00 AM   #56
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The 'modern' so-called 'Solfeggio' scale isn't wrong, per se...

It is actually a subset of the 81 Lo Shu Tones...

_____________________


But (as audible tones) it isn't ancient, it was not 'encoded' in the
KJV bible, and it was not suppressed by the RC Church, all of which
were claimed by J. Puleo (aka: J. Barber) & L. Horowitz circa 1999...

The six frequencies described by 'PuleoWitz' really have nothing to do
with the classic solfège syllables, other than the fact that they were
fraudulently represented as the historic six-tone scale developed
by the eleventh century, the music theorist ...

Since Guido's musical tones were unable to be measured or identified
as 'cycles per second' there is no way that the historic six tones could
have been tuned to the specific frequencies cited by Puleo/Horowitz...


.

Last edited by mythmath; 15-03-2010 at 05:01 AM.
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Old 18-03-2010, 09:06 AM   #57
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Richard Merrick shows in his book 'Interference a Grand Scientific Musical Theory' that 1:81 is a ratio found in the architectural proportions of Rosslyn Chapel.

Rosslyn chapel is said to have the same proportions as Solomon's temple, which is said to be a design that is in a sympathetic geometrical harmony with the ratios that are innate throughout the universe.

1/81 = 0.012345679012345...

He devised an instrumental tuning system with the method that he has called 81-AET (Arithmetic Equal Temperament) which he has sometimes called 'Chapel Temperament' as it is adapted to the maximally resonant interior space of the chapel.

He divides the octave into 81 equal proportions, and assigns each note in the chromatic scale with a frequency nearest to whole number proportions out of these 81 divisions.

Some of the divisions are very similar to the 81 Lo Shu tones. If the universe does have a sacred geometrical pattern, which Vastu Shastra and most ancient temple designs suggest in their mathematically exact structures, I think might mean that the Lo Shu tones are a very precise grid of permutations of resonance within the geometrical constants of the universe. 81 frequencies that are fundamental to vibratory manifestations that form along Phi approaching Fibonacci sequences of resonance damping nodes, or the whole number ratios found throughout nature.

These seemingly fundamental Lo Shu, Solfeggio and Rodin maths subjects are difficult to resolve. Hopefully this little extra bit of relative info might spark some new angles, I have not checked it out completely, I just put it here incase it works for someone.

I Referenced info from this unique book that I recommend to any adventurous acousticians and muso's that think music and nature work together, or are the same thing: Richard Merrick, 'Interference a Grand Scientific Musical Theory', 2009

Last edited by skywalker9; 18-03-2010 at 09:29 AM.
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Old 19-03-2010, 08:39 AM   #58
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Excellent post, skywalker9...

It has the Ring of Truth...

I've read online excerpts from that book,
and we discussed it a bit before in the big
The 81 Lo Shu Tones thread at abrahadabra.com...

I'll have to check the Merrick book out in more detail...

Thanks for the tip...


The following tale has some suspiciously similar elements:


Ling Lun and Huang Chung

Ling Lun is the legendary founder of music in ancient China.

The Chinese were the first to develop a comprehensive
music theory, and the pipes of Ling Lun embody their ideas.

In , writings claim that in 2697 b.c.e.,
the emperor Huangdi sent a scholar, Ling Lun, to the western
mountain area to cut a set of end-blown, bamboo pipes that could
emit the sounds made by many birds, including the ,
commonly referred to as the Chinese ...

These lengths of bamboo would be established and used as tuning pipes.

To make possible the creation of music properly pitched for harmony
between Heaven and Earth in the reign of the ""...

Ling Lun cut one pipe to an auspicious length
(one source online even stated that the length was 9.9 centimeters!)
and called it the "Huang Chung" which is literally translated as
"yellow bell" and it became the fundamental tuning pitch.

It is significant because it is the first known tonal system,
in which a base frequency was established and subsequent
ratios were established at specified intervals from the base.

To create the succeeding pitches he was said to have listened
to the calls of the birds and then cut the pipes accordingly.

In fact, the generation of the was a bit more 'rational'...

According to Harry Partch, the formula starts by dividing
the full-length of the Huang Chung pipe into 81 parts...

A third of these parts is subtracted and a third of the remaining
parts added, alternatively, through four computations...

The result is a set of five pipes of 81, 54, 72, 48, and 64 parts...

The ratios of the pipes are 1:1, 3:2, 9:8, 27:16, and 81:64, respectively...

Ling Lun proceeded to continue the formula until he had two sets
of six 'lu', or bamboo pipes, one a semitone above the second,
thus giving one (possibly the first such) version of the 12-tone scale...

The "" is said to have ordered the casting
of (more archival) bell sets in tune with those flutes.

______________


Compiled from some online articles and
GENESIS OF A MUSIC. By Harry Partch


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Old 19-03-2010, 03:27 PM   #59
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The ancient Ling Lun and Huang Chung is great, I will look right into that, reminds me of Pan and the tales that describe a time when heaven and earth were still quite melted together! In many old tales the good tuning of magically influential instruments is always there. The ancients of all civilizations seem to have a profound understanding of harmonics, I think any fairly legitimate article on an ancient tuning method or instrument provides an extra key. Seems the best way to get the whole picture is to compare as many as possible and find the similarities, Cheers mythmath.

Last edited by skywalker9; 19-03-2010 at 03:32 PM.
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Old 20-03-2010, 09:12 AM   #60
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viewzone.com/archeosound
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