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Old 16-04-2018, 03:02 PM   #61
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All these animals are taken to the same slaughter house, where they are bolt gunned in the head, strung up by their leg and have their throats slit, is that ethical?
Do you walk cafe b?
Have you thought about not stepping onto ants and other living things?
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Mark 11:12-25 - Jesus Curses a Fig Tree because he was hungry.

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Old 16-04-2018, 03:53 PM   #62
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My prime reason to favour a vegetarian diet is more to do with the beneficial effect on my health rather than the animals' well being, I'll be honest. Not that I'm indifferent to them being mistreated.

Though this makes me think. Been a fan of the song for nearly 30 years now.



Beef what a relief
When will this poisonous product cease?
This is another public service announcement
You can believe it or you can doubt it
Let us begin now with the cow
The way it gets to your plate and how
The cow doesn't grow fast enough for man
So through his greed he makes a faster plan

He has drugs to make the cow grow quicker
Through the stress the cow gets sicker
Twenty one different drugs are pumped
Into the cow in one big lump
So just before it dies, it cries
In the slaughterhouse full of germs and flies
Off with the head, they pack it, drain it, and cart it
And there it is, in your local supermarket

Red and bloody, a corpse, neatly packed
And you wonder about heart attacks?
Come on now man let's be for real
You are what you eat is the way I feel
But, the Food and Drug Administration
Will tell you meat is the perfect combination
See cows live under fear and stress
Trying to think what's gonna happen next
Fear and stress can become a part of you
In your cells and blood, this is true
So when the cow is killed, believe it

You preserve those cells, you freeze it
Thaw it out with the blood and season it
Then you sit down and begin eatin it
In your body, it's structure becomes your structure
All the fear and stress of another
Any drug is addictive by any name
Even drugs in meat, they are the same
The FDA has America strung out
On drugs in beef no doubt

So if you think that what I say is a bunch of crock
Tell yourself you're gonna try and stop
Eatin meat and you'll see you can't compete
It's the number one drug on the street
Not crack, cause that was made for just black
But brown beef, for all American teeth
Life brings life and death brings death
Keep on eatin the dead and what's left
Absolute disease and negative
Read the book 'How to Eat to Live'
By Elijah Muhammad, it's a brown paperback
For anybody, either white or black

See how many cows must be pumped up fatter
How many rats gotta fall in the batter
How many chickens that eat shit you eat
How much high blood pressure you get from pig feet
See you'll consume, the FDA could care less
They'll sell you donkey meat and say it's
FRESH! For nineteen-ninety, you SUCKERS
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Old 16-04-2018, 05:34 PM   #63
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Do you walk cafe b?
Have you thought about not stepping onto ants and other living things?
It's impossible to live on earth without causing harm, veganism is about making choices that cause the least amount of harm.

You and I will probably both tread on ants and insects and other living beings when we take a walk, it's not practical to avoid, as long as it's not intentionally done.

It also doesn't have any relevance on a decision to not pay people to kill baby animals for food when it's unnecessary.
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Old 16-04-2018, 05:38 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by cafe beelzebub View Post
It's impossible to live on earth without causing harm, veganism is about making choices that cause the least amount of harm.

You and I will probably both tread on ants and insects and other living beings when we take a walk, it's not practical to avoid, as long as it's not intentionally done.

It also doesn't have any relevance on a decision to not pay people to kill baby animals for food when it's unnecessary.
May be if you understand about what this world is about...you stop living in Utopia? It's like living in a prison cell and thinking you'll be served like a king.... mnnn yeah screws will serve you but not quite.
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Isaiah 45:7 - I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create EVIL: I the Lord do all these things. (I'm not a Christian!!)

Mark 11:12-25 - Jesus Curses a Fig Tree because he was hungry.

A Town Cursed by Jesus

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Old 16-04-2018, 05:50 PM   #65
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May be if you understand about what this world is about...you stop living in Utopia? It's like living in a prison cell and thinking you'll be served like a king.... mnnn yeah screws will serve you but not quite.
Not sure what your point is.
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Old 16-04-2018, 07:50 PM   #66
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I try my best not to harm any living thing. No it's not easy and the highland biting midge makes it impossible; but for me it's the right way to go about my time on this planet.
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Old 16-04-2018, 08:33 PM   #67
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UK has nearly 800 livestock mega farms, investigation reveals.

The only reason they are there is because we pay for it.

The mythical ethical farm where animals live a long life lounging around in the sun and then get kissed and cuddled to death doeans't exist.

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...gation-reveals
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Old 16-04-2018, 09:42 PM   #68
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I try my best not to harm any living thing. No it's not easy and the highland biting midge makes it impossible; but for me it's the right way to go about my time on this planet.
Jeeeeeeezus ,, I'm gonna have nightmares now ,,

The mozzies in the South are horrendous enough ,,



I hope those highland biting buzzers don't come down here!

This year ,, I'm getting a mozzie killer ,, I respect all life ,, apart from mozzies.
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Old 20-04-2018, 12:38 AM   #69
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The Yoghurt that you eat is full of somatic cells (pus), blood, antibiotics and Bovine Growth Hormone and diary production is absolutely torturous for the animals involved.
You could make your own from organic ethically farmed milk to avoid that, even not from cows. At the far end of it you could keep your own goat. Are you saying that would not be okay? Why?
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Old 20-04-2018, 12:39 AM   #70
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98% of the Chicken consumed in the UK comes from factory farms where the conditions are horrific. 1000's of birds are kept in huge barns where they sit in their own shit and piss for six weeks before they are slaughtered.

A Chickens natural life span is 7 to 8 years, all birds are slaughtered at 42 days old, so they are babies. The birds have been selectivity bred so their bodies grow abnormally fast, so their legs can't actually carry their own weight, many have broken bones and broken wings and ammonia burns from sitting in their own waste, many suffocate. They are pumped full of antibiotics because the conditions are rife for bacteria.

After 42 days the infant birds are packed in tiny cages and stacked onto lorries and transported for hours on end, again many die from suffocation. At the slaughter house, while still alive, they are hung upside down on hooks on an industrial conveyor belt and are dragged head first through electrified water, then they have their throats slit.

These birds have a brain and a nervous system and feel pain and fear just like we do, they are very intelligent and have complex communication and thinking abilities, and suffer greatly at our hands.

Is all that worth 5 minutes of taste pleasure?
If you are going to state figures you have to provide links or admit you're guessing.
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Old 20-04-2018, 12:40 AM   #71
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cheese can be hard to give up because it has a substance in it called casein which turns into Casomorphin (an Opioid) when digested, it's purpose is to sooth baby cows and keep them going back to their mothers to feed. Obviously cheese is condensed milk so it has a higher concentration of casein in. It also has higher concentrations of antibiotics, Bovine Growth hormones, blood and pus (Somatic cells)

As cows are milked incessantly, many cows get infections called mastitis and so pus cells and blood go into to milk, in the UK they are legally allowed to have 400 million pus cells in a litre of milk.
You are overlooking the alternatives. See my other post.
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Old 20-04-2018, 01:42 AM   #72
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Fruits juice contain as much sugar as Coca~Cola.
That's natural fructose, not refined and machine processed cane sugar.

Look at how many birds live off fruit mainly.. you don't see many fat hummingbirds do you?
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Old 20-04-2018, 03:13 PM   #73
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You could make your own from organic ethically farmed milk to avoid that,
Do you?

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Originally Posted by Seeingithowitis View Post
you could keep your own goat. Are you saying that would not be okay? Why?
Do you have your own goat you get milk from?

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Originally Posted by Seeingithowitis View Post
You could make your own from organic ethically farmed milk to avoid that, even not from cows. At the far end of it you could keep your own goat. Are you saying that would not be okay? Why?
I don't have a problem with that, is that what you are doing?

I would ask though, why are you drinking mammary secretions of another species? goats milk is designed for baby goats, the only milk we need is human milk, and we biologically do not need it after infancy

If your questions above are hypothetical, and you get all your meat and dairy from factory farms, really it would make sense to keep the conversation about that, I hear a lot of people talk about 'ethical, organic, humane' etc, but the vast majority of meat in this country is from factory farms and they don't buy these products anyway, also all the animals from even the best farms are sent to the same slaughter houses when they are at a fraction of their natural life span and die in the same brutal way the factory farmed animals do, is that ethical? All the 'humane, ethical, organic' labels are designed by the industry to make consumers by their products, they don't mean anything for the animals who still suffer, it's advertising doing it's job, the same as any other advertising, it's designed to manipulate people into buying their products.

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If you are going to state figures you have to provide links or admit you're guessing.
Do you mean the 98% figure?

Ok I'll concede that's not accurate, i've been searching and it's actually hard to find the correct figure, thanks for pointing that out, this website says it's around 70%

https://www.ciwf.org.uk/news/2017/07...rming-hotspots

Here's some other articles on the rise of Megafarms in the UK, there's about 800 now...

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...gation-reveals

https://www.thebureauinvestigates.co...e-farming-meat

https://civileats.com/2017/09/05/fac...eeping-the-uk/

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...-a7501816.html



Also can I recommend having a look at this recent documentary filmed in the UK about factory farming.

Cheers.



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Old 21-04-2018, 09:10 PM   #74
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Also, as many savvy professional singers and public speakers will tell you, cheese and other dairy products (not sure about eggs, to be honest) create a lining on the vocal chords that can damage the voice.
Just to correct you on that, the foods don't actually damage the voice or vocal chords. Singers avoid them just before a performance as it can affect the performance, it won't damage the voice to eat dairy foods.
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Old 21-04-2018, 09:16 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by cafe beelzebub View Post
cheese can be hard to give up because it has a substance in it called casein which turns into Casomorphin (an Opioid) when digested, it's purpose is to sooth baby cows and keep them going back to their mothers to feed. Obviously cheese is condensed milk so it has a higher concentration of casein in. It also has higher concentrations of antibiotics, Bovine Growth hormones, blood and pus (Somatic cells)

As cows are milked incessantly, many cows get infections called mastitis and so pus cells and blood go into to milk, in the UK they are legally allowed to have 400 million pus cells in a litre of milk.
Actually the opposite has been found in research they can also react as opioid antagonists. By the way could you post some links for ths post you posted.

In science there is always more than one side to the argument.

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"In various studies, the milk has been screened for the presence of free or precursor-bound opioids. In fact, various opioid receptor ligands with agonistic or even antagonistic activity were found. Besides the alkaloid morphine, peptides derived from alpha-casein (alpha-casein exorphins), beta-casein (beta-casomorphins; beta-casorphin), alpha-lactalbumin (alpha-lactorphins) and beta-lactoglobulin (beta-lactorphin) were among the agonists. In addition, certain peptides derived from k-casein (casoxins) or from lactoferrin (lactoferroxins) were found to behave like opioid antagonists."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1764604
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Old 21-04-2018, 09:37 PM   #76
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We are naturally predators not prey.

I could never be a vegan, all those supplements and B12 is hard to find.
Guess that's where the soy boy tag comes in.
All in all seems it can be really bad for the body from what I have learned from folk who used to be vegans.

Its a shame folk don't rear or hunt their own meat instead of the supermarket.
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Old 21-04-2018, 10:05 PM   #77
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What do you mean by AI?
The fake meat products are all artificial produced and chemically made, none would be present in nature. They are produced using computer modelling and tech R&D. Ergo, fake meat like Quorn are AI food and humans would not eat them naturally. Quorn etc. is NOT naturally present in our world. And Quorn is a known allergen and associated with causing at least two deaths.

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Generally, people don't give up meat because they suddenly wake up one day and dislike the taste of meat. Some people don't want to give up eating meals they enjoy, they still want to eat their burgers and their sausages, they just eat versions made out of plants that don't have minced up juvenile cows or baby pigs that died in terror in.
If you like the taste of dead animals you can hardly say you have evolved, and you put yourself in the vegan movement above others! You still crave the taste of dead animals but hold back by using fake meat to hold you back – otherwise you would give in and eat animals.

Fake meat is not made out of plants. Quorn is not made from plants - that was their lie for years until they were sued. You are starting to sound like a fake meat industry shill. They use the shady term "Plant based" product. But that is like eating recycled toilet paper and saying it is good for you as it is plant based. There are hundreds of thousands of products that are "plant based" that have nothing natural about them at all, but that are dangerous to humans!

People should be able to eat meat if they want without someone else passing judgment on them!

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Quorn, Caldron foods and Vegusto ...to name three companies that don't use GMOs. There are literally hundred of companys, some small, some big making vegetarian / vegan foods. It's definately good to know which companies do use GMO, but we need to be factual about things.
Again, you are sounding like a shill for the industry. Factually all those companies have been caught "clean labelling" and lying outright on how and what they put into their products. You are setting them up as paragons of virtue here to save the poor animals but they are corporations and they are only interested in the bottom line and adapting humans to eat fake food across the board – starting with fake meat. They have been adding fake flour and other cr*p to our bread and other similar products for years. They want humans to eat all fake food. Cheap, controlled and no one can grow their own. The people behind the fake meat and fake food industry have been messing with the human digestive system for years leading to all sorts of digestive problems that people didn't have 50 years ago!

They are even paying lobbyists to harass Washington. It's all about the cash and power for them.

They only started selling fake meat as it has a massive profit margin and compared to meat it is easy to produce with less regulation than meat. They can make a packet of fake meat 'sausages' for pence from mould and shift it to vegans for £4.00 a pack. It is a business person's dream come true. Different motives at different levels. They are even talking about putting vaccines into fake meat and other drugs, Bill Gates is a big influence in that area of fake meat.

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The vegan movement is huge, millions worldwide,
You make veganism sound like a cult!

You see there is the problem. You don't believe in choice and you will never be happy until you have tried to guilt every meat eating person into submission.

Why have vegans formed a movement over a food choice?

Quote:
mock meats, some eat whole foods, some eat totally unhealthy junk food.
You mean FAKE meats but of course the fake meat industry spins it to become the clean labelled 'mock' meat. ALL fake meat is junk food and has no nutritional value. They add vitamins and minerals to make it look healthy when it is nothing but junk! You may as well stop eating the fake meat and eat vitamin pills instead.

The fake meat industry is in bed with the tech AI industry BIG TIME -
Quote:
"Of course, there are rational reasons not to eat meat. You can probably recite them along with Ethan Brown, a strapping 6-foot-5 vegan who sold his house in Washington, D.C., and raided his family’s savings accounts to fund a startup called Beyond Meat. Because raising livestock is such an inefficient use of land and water, he thought that making soy “chicken” strips and vegetable-protein “Beast” patties would be an even better way to improve the environment than creating fuel cells, the career he abandoned. Along the way he signed up Bill Gates and Twitter founders Biz Stone and Evan Williams as investors. It’s hard, in fact, to find a tech billionaire who hasn’t invested in a protein alternative"
https://www.technologyreview.com/s/5...ith-fake-meat/
The push behind fake meat is to adapt people to eat chemicals and to accept unnatural ways of eating. All fake meats are synthetic and the most processed foods on the planet! All fake meats affect brain function and destroy the natural functioning of the digestive system.

Bill Gates is big into it. Tech billionaires are behind it and they are the same guys pushing AI.

Just to remind everyone this thread topic is about Positive Food, it is okay, and still on topic, to discuss the quality of various foods, including fake meat. It is off topic to discuss the rights and wrongs of being a Vegan, Vegetarian or meat eater – that should be a separate thread.
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Old 21-04-2018, 10:09 PM   #78
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We are naturally predators not prey.

I could never be a vegan, all those supplements and B12 is hard to find.
Guess that's where the soy boy tag comes in.
All in all seems it can be really bad for the body from what I have learned from folk who used to be vegans.

Its a shame folk don't rear or hunt their own meat instead of the supermarket.
Here is a clue that veg/veganism is unnatural... the fact that you have to take supplement.
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Mark 11:12-25 - Jesus Curses a Fig Tree because he was hungry.

A Town Cursed by Jesus
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Old 21-04-2018, 10:26 PM   #79
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I could never be a vegan, all those supplements and B12 is hard to find.

All in all seems it can be really bad for the body from what I have learned from folk who used to be vegans.
Supplements are easy to find but it is a myth that being vegan is unhealthy. The vegans you may have spoken to probably ate loads of 'Free from' cr*p and fake meat and that is what messed them up. After that meat would be easy to digest!

If it is a choice between fake meat or meat then meat is a more positive food for your body. Try and buy the best quality you can and buy ethical produced meat. Not eating meat at all may be better, we all have to make that choice ourselves.

People should eat what they choose to and to insist food morals on another is wrong.

The weird thing is you get non vegans, such as yourself, doing the same to vegans! Insisting they have to be like you!

Vegans can be healthy and strong. There is no reason to think to have to eat meat for strength or muscle.

See this guy - a vegan - do you think you are physically stronger than him? Want to test that?


A positive food choice for non meat eaters is beans and certain grains. Always choose organic where possible, eat nuts and seeds in your diet as well and you mostly won't need any supplements as long as you eat fruit and veg as well. You should always listen to your body and check out all the info you can on what you eat. that is what this thread is all about!
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Old 21-04-2018, 10:29 PM   #80
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Here is a clue that veg/veganism is unnatural... the fact that you have to take supplement.
That is a myth. There are no unique nutrients in meat that are essential for the body to be healthy. Being a vegan or vegetarian does NOT mean you have to take supplements. On top of that most meat eaters are just as deficient in their nutritions as any vegetarian or vegan, and mostly more so.
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