Go Back   David Icke's Official Forums > Main Forums > Electronic Harassment / Mind Control / Subliminal Programing > The Nature of Matrix Religions and what they mean.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 19-05-2018, 04:03 PM   #1
greatestiam
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 4,441
Likes: 237 (200 Posts)
Default Is the ongoing punishment of Adam and Eve justifiable?

Is the ongoing punishment of Adam and Eve justifiable?

Christian dogma says that Adam and Eve were murdered by neglect when God locked away the tree of life.

Eve was deceived by Satan and the talking serpent that God put in Eden. This caused the Original Sin concept that Christianity calls a happy fault and necessary to God’s plan.

Was gaining an education and a moral sense, which basically is what gaining knowledge is, justifiable to you?

Can you see yourself punishing your children for gaining an education and a moral sense the way God is punishing Adam and Eve to this day?

Regards
DL
greatestiam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-06-2018, 10:03 PM   #2
Dude111
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 20,404
Likes: 1,436 (935 Posts)
Default

I heard she got pregnant as punishment for eating when he said not to..... (Cant remember where)

Who knows what really took place!
Dude111 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-06-2018, 10:14 PM   #3
Oreironstar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 304
Likes: 135 (105 Posts)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by greatestiam View Post
Is the ongoing punishment of Adam and Eve justifiable?

Christian dogma says that Adam and Eve were murdered by neglect when God locked away the tree of life.

Eve was deceived by Satan and the talking serpent that God put in Eden. This caused the Original Sin concept that Christianity calls a happy fault and necessary to God’s plan.

Was gaining an education and a moral sense, which basically is what gaining knowledge is, justifiable to you?

Can you see yourself punishing your children for gaining an education and a moral sense the way God is punishing Adam and Eve to this day?

Regards
DL
Oreironstar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-06-2018, 01:22 AM   #4
tnt1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,453
Likes: 666 (398 Posts)
Default

Here is what biblical scholar Mauro Biglino has to say about it. ''After the Adam and the Eve did a certain thing the Elohim is doing nothing else but making a statement of fact, he is not sentencing them. He says: "You made a choice" Now I want you to know that because of this choice that I do not agree with, while the 'serpent' that we spoke of earlier, another person wanted that choice to be made. Or better he intervened to make it easier. One of the Watchers. He intervened while the other one that didn't want this decision says: "You made your choice get out of here!



But you should know that outside of here you will experience both positive and negative sides of that choice. So this is not a condemnation. It is what is called a post eventum virdict meaning you made your own bed now lie in it. In Italian, you wanted the bicycle now pedal. Pedaling is not a condemation it is directly correlated. One cannot get on a bicycle and not pedal. So to say you are on the bike pedal is not a sentence but a statement of fact nothing more.



Then He (Elohim) explains that to Eve regarding procreation you have for reproduction gotten independent from us with this choice. Before your choice you were my business and after now you are not. You are independent. With that choice when you wish to eat you feed yourself. You are independent. You are self sufficient. So out of the protected area they go and only those approved of to stay may stay. You go out on your own bye bye, you will understand. He is sure to tell Eve child labor will hurt. He explains tho, you will understand, not sentencing you.



Ya Da the Jewish verb. Meaning you'll have knowledge of the fact that this choice brings both positive and negative consequences. "TO WA RA" will thus get to know both the good and bad of this situation. Amos has gone even further. He explained that the term RA was used to describe evil or bad. But it has and had nothing to do with the idea of evil or bad in ethics. Instead it refers to attention the 'physiopathology of the human body so Elohim is saying once outside this protected area where we were keeping you, well out here beyond this protected area you will find that you can feel bad.



So we are here not by some guilt, not some sentence but because one of our ancestors got on a bicycle. Now we too must pedal. We have to think about that because this changes the whole story. ''
__________________
Rabbit Hole
Likes: (2)
tnt1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-06-2018, 02:29 PM   #5
jake_ball
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 10,021
Likes: 3,174 (1,628 Posts)
Default

Adam and Eve no longer wanted to live in a tyranical dictatorship, so they chose to have freedom of choice. Nothing wrong with that.
The apple incident was an example of civil disobedience - The ptb can't handle that, and had to let them go.....but to this very day, the ptb are always trying to corrupt their minds in order that Adam and Eve will one day choose to go BACK to living in a dictatorship, and to have no personal responsibilities whatsover.
__________________
The truth is like a lion. You don't have to defend it. Let it loose. It will defend itself. ||| The words that I type onto this forum are NOT my opinions, nor are they my beliefs, they are simply just words and letters on a screen ||| Any thread that I start is not really meant as a debate, it's really just a friendly discussion

Last edited by jake_ball; 16-06-2018 at 02:32 PM.
jake_ball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-06-2018, 03:27 PM   #6
tinfoil hat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 2,004
Likes: 1,234 (713 Posts)
Default

Adam and Eve got told what not to do and paid the price for ignoring that.
They did corrupt all of Humanity after all.

If you aren't going to listen to the creator of everything then who are you gonna listen to?
tinfoil hat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-06-2018, 05:29 PM   #7
sevenhills
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: On a Pennine hillside
Posts: 2,643
Likes: 1,236 (800 Posts)
Default

Adam and Eve is just a copy of earlier creation myths made up by Bronze Age people who did not understand the world around them.
__________________
Any advantages or "privilige" you have are thanks to the hard work and sacrifice of your Ancestors - Rejoice in them, dont feel the need to Check Them
Likes: (1)
sevenhills is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-06-2018, 07:35 PM   #8
fairyprincess
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: The city at the edge of the world
Posts: 12,554
Likes: 2,459 (1,357 Posts)
Default

What kind of all seeing, infallible god.... A God who can read people's thoughts, and know what people are going to do before they do it.....

Has the tree of knowledge, which he doesn't want to give its fruits to the humans, a talking snake (who is not the devil, unless Militons paradise lost is biblical scipture.) And the first people (,with no knowledge of good and evil, so can't know their actions are wrong.), And decided to put them in the same place on earth?????
__________________
"if you bring forth what is within you, what you bring forth will save you. If you do not bring forth what is within you, what you do not bring forth will destroy you." (Jesus Christ, gospel of thomas.)

Love is natural, Hate is taught....
Likes: (1)
fairyprincess is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-06-2018, 11:42 PM   #9
decim
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 16,137
Likes: 2,985 (1,695 Posts)
Default

Metaphors.
Met 'afore's.
Meat a' four's.
Meta force.



Will Cain ever be rehabilitated.
__________________
DISCLAIMER: Reader discretion advised. The above post is entirely fictional, for entertainment purposes only. Any similarities to real life events, animals, humans, persons, politicians, or any other form of organisation entity living, dead or in any other state of existence are coincidental. Any opinion, comment or statements related or attributed to this username are not necessarily nor implied to be those held by the ip/computer/username or other electronic media device or service owner/user.
decim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-06-2018, 11:10 AM   #10
creepingdave
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 398
Likes: 30 (19 Posts)
Default

Where does Lilith fit in?
creepingdave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2018, 02:45 PM   #11
dr0n3
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 661
Likes: 8 (8 Posts)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fairyprincess View Post
What kind of all seeing, infallible god.... A God who can read people's thoughts, and know what people are going to do before they do it.....

Has the tree of knowledge, which he doesn't want to give its fruits to the humans, a talking snake (who is not the devil, unless Militons paradise lost is biblical scipture.) And the first people (,with no knowledge of good and evil, so can't know their actions are wrong.), And decided to put them in the same place on earth?????

You've got it all wrong.

God knows that Adam and Eve will eat the fruit of knowledge, and this is fixed and unalterable, but only because Adam and Eve will in fact freely choose to eat the fruit of knowledge. But, they could choose to not eat the fruit of knowledge—in which case, some other fact about the future would have been fixed and unalterable; namely, Adam and Eve will not eat the fruit of knowledge , and this is what God would have foreknown all along, had this been what Adam and Eve would freely choose to do.

So basically a God that knows what people are going to do before they do it doesn't the negate that fact that people still have the freedom to choose.
__________________
Atheism
The belief there was once absolutely nothing. And nothing happened to the nothing until the nothing magically exploded (for no reason), creating everything and everywhere. Then a bunch of the exploded everything magically rearranged itself (for no reason whatsoever), into self-replicating bits which eventually turned into dinosaurs.

And they mock your beliefs.
dr0n3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2018, 03:26 PM   #12
white light
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: B-lighty
Posts: 14,765
Likes: 3,484 (2,438 Posts)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr0n3 View Post
You've got it all wrong.

God knows that Adam and Eve will eat the fruit of knowledge, and this is fixed and unalterable, but only because Adam and Eve will in fact freely choose to eat the fruit of knowledge. But, they could choose to not eat the fruit of knowledge—in which case, some other fact about the future would have been fixed and unalterable; namely, Adam and Eve will not eat the fruit of knowledge , and this is what God would have foreknown all along, had this been what Adam and Eve would freely choose to do.

So basically a God that knows what people are going to do before they do it doesn't the negate that fact that people still have the freedom to choose.
What's in it for god?
Likes: (1)
white light is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2018, 04:24 PM   #13
dr0n3
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 661
Likes: 8 (8 Posts)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by white light View Post
What's in it for god?
I don't see how your question is of relevance tbh
__________________
Atheism
The belief there was once absolutely nothing. And nothing happened to the nothing until the nothing magically exploded (for no reason), creating everything and everywhere. Then a bunch of the exploded everything magically rearranged itself (for no reason whatsoever), into self-replicating bits which eventually turned into dinosaurs.

And they mock your beliefs.
dr0n3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2018, 04:29 PM   #14
white light
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: B-lighty
Posts: 14,765
Likes: 3,484 (2,438 Posts)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr0n3 View Post
I don't see how your question is of relevance tbh
If god knows what happens whatever Adam and Eve choose to do, then what is god's interest in any of it? Why set it up either way if you know the outcome?
white light is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2018, 05:09 PM   #15
dr0n3
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 661
Likes: 8 (8 Posts)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by white light View Post
If god knows what happens whatever Adam and Eve choose to do, then what is god's interest in any of it? Why set it up either way if you know the outcome?
Today we're the 5th of July 2018 and I ask you "When will be the next lunar eclipse in Australia?"

You answer the 5th of August 2019 for which the answer is correct.

The fact that you asserted a lunar eclipse on this date will it somehow "force" the eclipse to occur? Obviously not. Considering that, I'd like you to tell me of what significance is it to ask what is one's interest in any of this. None, precisely.

There's no such thing as a "setup", our free choices in the future necessitate what God knows to be true. It's not the other way around as you're attempting to suggest.
__________________
Atheism
The belief there was once absolutely nothing. And nothing happened to the nothing until the nothing magically exploded (for no reason), creating everything and everywhere. Then a bunch of the exploded everything magically rearranged itself (for no reason whatsoever), into self-replicating bits which eventually turned into dinosaurs.

And they mock your beliefs.
dr0n3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2018, 05:33 PM   #16
tnt1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,453
Likes: 666 (398 Posts)
Default

I think the so called, 'god' gained survival in some way through his creations.

If the ancient stories are correct and these, 'gods' not only blew up one planet, a massive planet apparently that created the asteroid belt when it blew along with it's several moons blew but they apparently also destroyed their own planet in the process and damaged as well as moved the orbits of several moons on their home world and permanently.
Consider if this is true and Mars was their home planet and they stopped or slowed it's rotation as well as destroyed several moons positions then they disrupted the reproduction cycles of all living beings on that planet even if it survived but as it happened it began dying slowly and they knew it and moved here to the only planet left living. Which was also damaged by some of the same debris from their goings on in the other part of our solar system.

Consider you are them, you know now you all have limited time before your own reproductive cycles get disrupted. The females of your species all experience irregular menstrual cycles now and then eventually they stop! So now procreation is off the table in the normal way because your reproductive cycle is or was regulated by your moons and the sun just like they regulate the cycles of earth living creatures.

So they knew this of course and they came here and they hybridized not because they really wanted to but because it was the only recourse for some semblance of survival before time ran out on them altogether and they became just another extinct species of our solar system. In this way at least they gained some type of survival to move on into the future even if they had to split some genes and do some splicing to make their new survivors partly made up of earth beings they had already tagged that were adapted to the cycles of earth. In this way through a bit of trial and error they could make something work within the limited time they had. So they gained their wisdom and genes surviving by creating us. That is what I think took place and it explains why we only hear about them now and don't see them.
__________________
Rabbit Hole
tnt1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2018, 06:01 PM   #17
white light
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: B-lighty
Posts: 14,765
Likes: 3,484 (2,438 Posts)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr0n3 View Post
Today we're the 5th of July 2018 and I ask you "When will be the next lunar eclipse in Australia?"

You answer the 5th of August 2019 for which the answer is correct.

The fact that you asserted a lunar eclipse on this date will it somehow "force" the eclipse to occur? Obviously not. Considering that, I'd like you to tell me of what significance is it to ask what is one's interest in any of this. None, precisely.

There's no such thing as a "setup", our free choices in the future necessitate what God knows to be true. It's not the other way around as you're attempting to suggest.
Not sure I follow you. "our free choices in the future necessitate what God knows to be true". What does that mean?

If I set the planets in motion and then asserted that a lunar eclipse would happen on such and such a date I would indeed be forcing the eclipse to occur.

If there were no free will or randomness in the universe then my interest in it might be considerably less than if there were free will and randomness.

If you fix a game, you have no interest in the game, you only want to pick up your bet winnings at the end of it. But I daresay god would have no use for bet winnings in a fixed universe.

Btw, I'm not attempting to suggest anything, I'm merely attempting to make logical sense of what you are saying.
Likes: (1)
white light is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2018, 08:44 PM   #18
dr0n3
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 661
Likes: 8 (8 Posts)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by white light View Post
Not sure I follow you. "our free choices in the future necessitate what God knows to be true". What does that mean?
It means that whatever action X may be, God's foreknowledge is validated by that action. In other words, foreknowledge is contingent upon the action that will take place, as opposed to the action taking place because of what God foreknew.

Quote:
Originally Posted by white light View Post
If I set the planets in motion and then asserted that a lunar eclipse would happen on such and such a date I would indeed be forcing the eclipse to occur.
Umm no.

If a teacher knows that a lazy student will fail at the end of the year and the teacher is 100% sure of this fact because of years of experience as a teacher, you certainly wouldn't suggest that the teacher's knowledge and what they foresaw has caused the student to fail. That's beyond ridiculous.

At best, your example is a semantic relation rather than a causal one. It's not the fact that you knew beforehand that a lunar eclipse will happen on such and such a date that brings about ("necessitates") the event to occur at such and such a date. It is, quite the contrary: it is rather the direct manifestation of planetary motion through your "setup" that has caused the lunar eclipse to occur, which subsequently validated your foreknowledge of that event only once it has come to be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by white light View Post
If there were no free will or randomness in the universe then my interest in it might be considerably less than if there were free will and randomness.

If you fix a game, you have no interest in the game, you only want to pick up your bet winnings at the end of it. But I daresay god would have no use for bet winnings in a fixed universe.
I would argue that the lack of interest is merely the result of God's foreknowledge rather than a lack of free will. Either way, it's a moot point since God's interest (be it lacking or not) and free will are mutually inclusive. One does not negate the other.
__________________
Atheism
The belief there was once absolutely nothing. And nothing happened to the nothing until the nothing magically exploded (for no reason), creating everything and everywhere. Then a bunch of the exploded everything magically rearranged itself (for no reason whatsoever), into self-replicating bits which eventually turned into dinosaurs.

And they mock your beliefs.
dr0n3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2018, 09:54 PM   #19
fairyprincess
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: The city at the edge of the world
Posts: 12,554
Likes: 2,459 (1,357 Posts)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr0n3 View Post
You've got it all wrong.

God knows that Adam and Eve will eat the fruit of knowledge, and this is fixed and unalterable, but only because Adam and Eve will in fact freely choose to eat the fruit of knowledge. But, they could choose to not eat the fruit of knowledge—in which case, some other fact about the future would have been fixed and unalterable; namely, Adam and Eve will not eat the fruit of knowledge , and this is what God would have foreknown all along, had this been what Adam and Eve would freely choose to do.

So basically a God that knows what people are going to do before they do it doesn't the negate that fact that people still have the freedom to choose.
But isn't God all-powerful? How can anything be "fixed or unalterable" for him?

How can God be God if he is limited, unable to alter anything he likes?
__________________
"if you bring forth what is within you, what you bring forth will save you. If you do not bring forth what is within you, what you do not bring forth will destroy you." (Jesus Christ, gospel of thomas.)

Love is natural, Hate is taught....
Likes: (1)
fairyprincess is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2018, 10:45 PM   #20
dr0n3
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 661
Likes: 8 (8 Posts)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fairyprincess View Post
But isn't God all-powerful? How can anything be "fixed or unalterable" for him?

How can God be God if he is limited, unable to alter anything he likes?
That would ultimately clash with his omniscience, since to suggest that he could alter something that was supposedly fixed is tantamount to claiming that he erred in his decision, at some point.

Consider redefining all-powerful as in "able to achieve all possible things."
__________________
Atheism
The belief there was once absolutely nothing. And nothing happened to the nothing until the nothing magically exploded (for no reason), creating everything and everywhere. Then a bunch of the exploded everything magically rearranged itself (for no reason whatsoever), into self-replicating bits which eventually turned into dinosaurs.

And they mock your beliefs.
dr0n3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 06:41 AM.


Shoutbox provided by vBShout (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.