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Old 15-12-2008, 07:15 PM   #121
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And my point is, that the Freeman games to sidle away from this authority are bound to fail eventually, because, at a fundamental level, justice in the UK flows from an entity (the Crown) that is self-justifying (justified by God): this is why only the Crown can remove the authority of the Crown over you.

William the Conquorer took ownership over everyone and everything. And since then, his heirs have temporarily released some authority into the hands of the Lords and (in respect of taxes) to the Commons.

But none to the 'people'.
Oh,Bolsheviks
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Old 15-12-2008, 08:25 PM   #122
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William the Conquorer took ownership over everyone and everything.
But none to the 'people'.
I'm sorry, I didn't get that memo. Doot dee doo.....

I accept the Bill(iam) for value and return it for lawful discharge. I do not consent. Adjust the accounting accordingly and reset to "0".

If the crown's actions are with the imprimatur of (G)od, why then don't they:

- uncover the keys of knowledge?
- turn the other cheek?
- love their neighbour?
- stop making graven images?
- remove the authority of man over man?
- forgive us our debts?
- stop using new leather to fix old wineskins?

Why should you obey an entity that can't even come close to living up to its own authority?

oh, right..... the gun in the room

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Old 15-12-2008, 08:52 PM   #123
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If the crown's actions are with the imprimatur of (G)od, why then don't they:

- uncover the keys of knowledge?
- turn the other cheek?
- love their neighbour?
- stop making graven images?
- remove the authority of man over man?
- forgive us our debts?
- stop using new leather to fix old wineskins?

Why should you obey an entity that can't even come close to living up to its own authority?

oh, right..... the gun in the room
With the glass of whiskey.

Because the law is concieved of as being chronilogical, not heirachical.
God (1) put in place the Sovereign (2), who delegated the ministers (3) who made the laws (4)........
(4) trumps (1) on a daily basis. Any appeals against unjust laws have to be made to the Sovereign (or her deligated officers). This relationship is inherant in the way the Bill of Rights was written.

Last edited by cacadores; 15-12-2008 at 08:53 PM.
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Old 15-12-2008, 11:32 PM   #124
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William the Conquorer took ownership over everyone...
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God (1) put in place the Sovereign
Waffle much?
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Old 15-12-2008, 11:45 PM   #125
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What are you talking about, is a freeman not allowed to "trade" or engage in commerce?
Yes a freeman can trade from the private as well as the public.

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Lawyers aren't even in commerce by the definition of "buying AND selling"


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You could make even more money as a freeman exempt from statutes and taxes, why would anyone not want to do it? If you have nothing to loose and everything to gain we would all do it.....the only risk would be if Commercial Redemption didn't work, then there would be a risk and you could lose, but you seeem to think its full proof and the courts HAVE to accpet it? If the don't have to accept it or in reality they fail to do so, then what is the point, you have achieved nothing in real terms.
It's not about making money as you seem to think but of course not having to pay illegal taxes and fines means more money stay's in your pocket and is distributed around your local economy's.

It might be that you are just dumb or it's the fact you have not read any NoU&I They accept these documents by not responding to them which is dishonour and acceptance of your claim of right.



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Basic human rights, given to us by humans, and so can be taken away by humans.

You haven't got any concept of law have you.

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The only rights we have above animals are those given by laws, for example the offences against a person act states I cant set up a gun with a trip wire to shoot you and then claim that the gun did the shooting and I am not guilty of a crime. Its not a common law crime, because I the human being didnt shoot you, infact you walked through the wire, you shot yourself.

God, you talk shit.

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What even makes you think that you have a right to exist? Your existence is certainly using resources that you are depriving someone else in the world of having, why are you taking away their right to exist to serve your own? Does your right to exist superseed theirs?
What!! so what are you trying to say??

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Not only are your legal arguments flawed, but your philisophy is too.
You haven't got a clue what you are talking about You want to be a slave and will stay that way because it it comfortable

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Martial Law and Anarchy can't co exist, another oxymoron.
They go hand in hand of course.

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Although your use of the term Martial Law raises another point, I would like to see the freeman defence used in court martial, if martial law ever does happen....how will your defence stand up then? Human rights are suspended, you answer to the gun and the bayonett.
A freeman is a sovereign so they would stand a better chance in the court system than a slave.

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Old 15-12-2008, 11:50 PM   #126
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You don't have a choice: if you break the law, you become subject to it. How do you mean ''She does not have authority over me''? She, or the 'Crown' has the whole paraphenalia of the law to assert their authority over you.

And my point is, that the Freeman games to sidle away from this authority are bound to fail eventually, because, at a fundamental level, justice in the UK flows from an entity (the Crown) that is self-justifying (justified by God): this is why only the Crown can remove the authority of the Crown over you.

William the Conquorer took ownership over everyone and everything. And since then, his heirs have temporarily released some authority into the hands of the Lords and (in respect of taxes) to the Commons.

But none to the 'people'.

ROFLMAO.


Bend down you subject.


Freeman are only concerned about authority that comes from the creator.

Read 1 Samuel 8 then get back to me.

You might gain some knowledge, but I doubt it.

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Old 16-12-2008, 12:14 AM   #127
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It's not about making money as you seem to think but of course not having to pay illegal taxes and fines means more money stay's in your pocket and is distributed around your local economy's.

It might be that you are just dumb or it's the fact you have not read any NoU&I They accept these documents by not responding to them which is dishonour and acceptance of your claim of right.

Ill pick up on this point to highlight the hypocracy. you have stated that the only reason lawyers don't do it is for fear of losing their houses, cars and money. If commercial redemption works, how could anyone take those things form them as a soverign freeman. You have said that they would not loose their house or money or car and would have more money. Now you are saying Its not about money?


They go hand in hand of course.
You very much need to learn the true philosphy of anarchism, it is exactlythe opposite to marshal law. Anarchism is increadibly close to freemanims, it is about self determination and voluntary co operation. Martial Law is the most oppresive legal system there is....it will probaly be what we face soon enough. Unless you can strap that claim of right to your chest to stop a rifle round it won't be worth the pen ink.
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Old 16-12-2008, 12:15 AM   #128
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ROFLMAO.


Bend down you subject.


Freeman are only concerned about authority that comes from the creator.

Read 1 Samuel 8 then get back to me.

You might gain some knowledge, but I doubt it.

.
You answere to one book but not another, each book claims supremicy over you, are you not a slave to whoever wrote the book you "chose" to follow. Perhapse you should decide for youself in life.

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Old 16-12-2008, 12:32 AM   #129
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You answere to one book but not another, each book claims supremicy over you, are you not a slave to whoever wrote the book you "chose" to follow. Perhapse you should decide for youself in life.

I'll put you on the right track so you don't forget it.


I am NOT a Christian nor do I read the Bible. I answer to my own conscious and moral code and I give thanks to a creator and consider myself a co creator of my own destiny.

The KJB is the one that law bases it's code on, so I use that against them. Sucker.


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Old 16-12-2008, 06:11 PM   #130
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ROFLMAO.
Bend down you subject.
Freeman are only concerned about authority that comes from the creator.
Read 1 Samuel 8 then get back to me.
You might gain some knowledge, but I doubt it.
.
From you? LOL
You're missing the point: the Freeman concept is not about revolution or about conscientious objection but about using anomolies, protections or exceptions within the law itself.

It's not about reading Samual Ch.1. You can do that in prison!
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Old 17-12-2008, 12:16 AM   #131
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So by your own reasoning if I was to kill you that would be my right and the extinction of your right.

Infact my ability to extinguish your former right makes me a higher power, I am giving myself rights and taking yours, it is natural law, the only LAW, everyhing else, including freeman "common law" carries the force of law.

With even less offence, maybe you should lay off the wacky backy if you want to complete a though process to conclusion.
You really stretch your imagination when it comes to analogies. You are alway using the law of the jungle within natural law to bring into the conversation of the 'natural law' or common law, that is based on the pricipals of right and wrong. You can not mix and match these, they are completely different.

All anyone has to do is know we are all equal and all authority over you goes out the window.

It doesn't matter what the magna charta, the bill of right or the us constitution or any statute or act says. It doesn't matter. They are only bits of paper with words on them.

The only bit of paper of any use to us is one that says we don't need a piece of paper to know we are all equal. We don't even need that.

If anyone can't grasp the fact we are all equal, stop taking the blue slave pills and wake up to the real world.

The fact that the uk government uses violence to support their statutes and act scam shows all to clearly their way is a fraud and wrong.
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Old 17-12-2008, 12:26 AM   #132
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From you? LOL
You're missing the point: the Freeman concept is not about revolution or about conscientious objection but about using anomolies, protections or exceptions within the law itself.

It's not about reading Samual Ch.1. You can do that in prison!
The freeman philosophy is NOT about revolution BUT it certainly is about conscientious objection to being a slave.

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It's not about reading Samual Ch.1. You can do that in prison!
Idiot if you had related it, in it's context to the point that was made. Then you might have some idea on what you were talking about.

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Old 17-12-2008, 12:48 AM   #133
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If anyone can't grasp the fact we are all equal, stop taking the blue slave pills and wake up to the real world..
You suppose I type while asleep? And......
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The fact that the uk government uses violence to support their statutes and act scam shows all to clearly their way is a fraud and wrong.
The Magna Carta and Bill of Rights are a scam?

Difficult to see how such an awry interpretation of facts could possibly help us.
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Old 17-12-2008, 12:53 AM   #134
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The freeman philosophy is NOT about revolution BUT it certainly is about conscientious objection to being a slave
I've never heard that 'Freemen' usually use conscientious objection as a legal tool. Perhaps you made that up?


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Idiot if you had related it, in it's context to the point that was made. Then you might have some idea on what you were talking about.
I sense your point just died when the personal epithet became a rejoinder of first resort.

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Old 17-12-2008, 01:03 AM   #135
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You really stretch your imagination when it comes to analogies. You are alway using the law of the jungle within natural law to bring into the conversation of the 'natural law' or common law, that is based on the pricipals of right and wrong. You can not mix and match these, they are completely different.
Bursting bubbles 45 mins in, natural law, highest form of law from Rob himself.


All anyone has to do is know we are all equal and all authority over you goes out the window.
We aren't all equal. That idea is given by common and statute force of law, it is not true in natrual law/

It doesn't matter what the magna charta, the bill of right or the us constitution or any statute or act says. It doesn't matter. They are only bits of paper with words on them.
Quite True

The only bit of paper of any use to us is one that says we don't need a piece of paper to know we are all equal. We don't even need that.
That first piece of paper is still a piece of paper, that claim is but a claim.

If anyone can't grasp the fact we are all equal, stop taking the blue slave pills and wake up to the real world.
If we are all equal how come we are all enslaved? Because we have been outsmarted. Unless we can out do our masters we are the evidence suggests we are inferior. If we can best our masters then we are better, if we can achieve equality we are equal. I/we will be be free when we are free, not when we claim to be free but are in jail.

The fact that the uk government uses violence to support their statutes and act scam shows all to clearly their way is a fraud and wrong.
In many cases I would agree, that video of demonstraters in liverpool (?) getting nicked and having their documents impounded. Wrong morally, and (probably) legally, but it happened. The people protested their clear legal claims with no success. I doubt that esoteric and often innacrate attempts to claim things that are illegal aren't illegal will have more success than those protestors who claimed that things that were legal which were legal, had.
For the flip of my sig, just because I'm not on your side doesn't mean I'm against you.

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Old 17-12-2008, 01:29 AM   #136
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If anyone can't grasp the fact we are all equal, stop taking the blue slave pills and wake up to the real world.
If we are all equal how come we are all enslaved? Because we have been outsmarted.
1694 ... I hope you're sitting down; we may have a "first".

Ready?

I agree with you.
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Old 17-12-2008, 02:17 AM   #137
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You suppose I type while asleep? And......


The Magna Carta and Bill of Rights are a scam?

Difficult to see how such an awry interpretation of facts could possibly help us.
Not so difficult when you open your mind.

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Bursting bubbles 45 mins in, natural law, highest form of law from Rob himself.
Yeah, but I'm not talking about the 'highest' form of law. I'm talking about this:

"You are alway using the law of the jungle within natural law to bring into the conversation of the 'natural law' or common law, that is based on the pricipals of right and wrong. You can not mix and match these, they are completely different."

Quote:
If we are all equal how come we are all enslaved? Because we have been outsmarted. Unless we can out do our masters we are the evidence suggests we are inferior. If we can best our masters then we are better, if we can achieve equality we are equal. I/we will be be free when we are free, not when we claim to be free but are in jail.
What evidence suggests we are inferior? As a human being how are you inferior to the queen? So she has more money and material wealth and a totally different education. Perhaps an inferior knowledge than she has in some areas but that is all.

It's all in our heads mate. Programming.

I know I am not free. I know I am not a total slave either. I have been used by their system in the past, yes, but now I have pulled the proverbial plug out the back of my head, I've become a loose spanner in their works. The only way they can control me is by the use of violence against me or my family. Anyone can make you do something at the barrel of a gun. Then they have lost. Their words alone cannot control me.

Is the queen free to do as she pleases? Not on your life. She obeys the system of 'the order'.

I don't think many of the elite are free to do what they want when they want. Their system of controling each other doesn't allow for freedom as I know it to be.

Being free and being equal can be interpreted quite differently.

It is not up to others past or present to decide they have the right to govern me. It is up to me to decide if I wish to be governed by others and I do not consent to be governed by anyone other than myself. This is what I know in my soul. This is my reality and I'm sticking to it.
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Old 17-12-2008, 02:31 AM   #138
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Back to the Magna Charta, 1215. I think this document is a symbol of freedom and is a great reference as to the importance of standing ones ground in the face of tyranny. It is a good tool for guidance and should be quoted as a reference, not a statute, act or law.

In other words, don't invoke Lawful Rebellion because a statute or act says you can. Invoke Lawful Rebllion because your heart tells you to!
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Old 17-12-2008, 02:39 AM   #139
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Not so difficult when you open your mind.



Yeah, but I'm not talking about the 'highest' form of law. I'm talking about this:

"You are alway using the law of the jungle within natural law to bring into the conversation of the 'natural law' or common law, that is based on the pricipals of right and wrong. You can not mix and match these, they are completely different."



What evidence suggests we are inferior? As a human being how are you inferior to the queen? So she has more money and material wealth and a totally different education. Perhaps an inferior knowledge than she has in some areas but that is all.

It's all in our heads mate. Programming.

I know I am not free. I know I am not a total slave either. I have been used by their system in the past, yes, but now I have pulled the proverbial plug out the back of my head, I've become a loose spanner in their works. The only way they can control me is by the use of violence against me or my family. Anyone can make you do something at the barrel of a gun. Then they have lost. Their words alone cannot control me.

Is the queen free to do as she pleases? Not on your life. She obeys the system of 'the order'.

I don't think many of the elite are free to do what they want when they want. Their system of controling each other doesn't allow for freedom as I know it to be.

Being free and being equal can be interpreted quite differently.

It is not up to others past or present to decide they have the right to govern me. It is up to me to decide if I wish to be governed by others and I do not consent to be governed by anyone other than myself. This is what I know in my soul. This is my reality and I'm sticking to it.
Good post dondaz.

It's all about breaking the programming that has been going on for thousands of years and the time is right. other's like Rob Menard, John Harris, Mary Croft, Mark Pytellek and many more have laid the ground work and done the miles. It's now time for us to get into it and create a consciousness for the rest of the world to make it more equitable for our children.

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